Samsung F5350 Series? F5350 vs S60? - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 222 Old 12-02-2013, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Cnet does not measure MLL. Katzmaier himself said so. MLL for the S60 is from 0.0025 ~0.003 according to PlasmaPZ80U, and the F5500 0.004fL from sources other than Cnet.

with around 600 hours on my PDP, it is 0.0024 to 0.0025 fL (I include the range to account for display and/or meter drift and I run the slides before the measurements to clear all IR in the measurement area)

that being said, if I don't clear IR, numbers around 0.0035 fL are typical

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post #182 of 222 Old 12-23-2013, 03:40 PM
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I've read every post in this thread. Can anyone definitively confirm whether or not the 60F5350 has an AR filter or not? I saw the pics posted earlier in the thread, the screen looks glossy but it doesn't look grey and washed out like tvs with no filter look. A family member is going to be picking up a membership at BJ's, so I could take advantage of this if they are still selling the 60" for $699.
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post #183 of 222 Old 12-23-2013, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

I've read every post in this thread. Can anyone definitively confirm whether or not the 60F5350 has an AR filter or not? I saw the pics posted earlier in the thread, the screen looks glossy but it doesn't look grey and washed out like tvs with no filter look. A family member is going to be picking up a membership at BJ's, so I could take advantage of this if they are still selling the 60" for $699.


As I posted before, the 5350 is the same as the 5300. and does not have a filter. I confirmed this with Samsung. Based on what I have seen on display, (I've seen both models) and measurements from Rtings.com, the 5300/5350 are pretty reflective, even when compared to the Panasonic S60.http://www.rtings.com/info/tv-reflections-matte-vs-glossy



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post #184 of 222 Old 12-24-2013, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

I've read every post in this thread. Can anyone definitively confirm whether or not the 60F5350 has an AR filter or not? I saw the pics posted earlier in the thread, the screen looks glossy but it doesn't look grey and washed out like tvs with no filter look. A family member is going to be picking up a membership at BJ's, so I could take advantage of this if they are still selling the 60" for $699.

Was there word that BJ's still has it for that price?
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post #185 of 222 Old 12-25-2013, 11:25 AM
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Was there word that BJ's still has it for that price?
Don't know, that's why I asked.
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post #186 of 222 Old 12-25-2013, 12:36 PM
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Don't know, that's why I asked.


That deal has been gone for some time now.



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post #187 of 222 Old 12-26-2013, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

with around 600 hours on my PDP, it is 0.0024 to 0.0025 fL (I include the range to account for display and/or meter drift and I run the slides before the measurements to clear all IR in the measurement area)

that being said, if I don't clear IR, numbers around 0.0035 fL are typical

The S60 is .0024-25?

I'd like to hear some numbers for the F5300, Cnet says .004, but they also say that for the S60 I believe, yet everyone says the Panny is significantly better. I really enjoy the deep blacks, but it seems that if the F5300 is .004 that is pretty darn good as well, no?
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post #188 of 222 Old 12-26-2013, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by aman74 View Post

The S60 is .0024-25?

I'd like to hear some numbers for the F5300, Cnet says .004, but they also say that for the S60 I believe, yet everyone says the Panny is significantly better. I really enjoy the deep blacks, but it seems that if the F5300 is .004 that is pretty darn good as well, no?
it went back up a bit to 0.0027 fl around 1000 hours, though I didn't perceive any difference

To answer your question, even 0.004 should be great. What would concern me more is floating blacks where the black level rises with moderate to high apl scenes instead of being fixed to extremely low values like on the 2013 Panasonics
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post #189 of 222 Old 12-26-2013, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

it went back up a bit to 0.0027 fl around 1000 hours, though I didn't perceive any difference

To answer your question, even 0.004 should be great. What would concern me more is floating blacks where the black level rises with moderate to high apl scenes instead of being fixed to extremely low values like on the 2013 Panasonics

Agreed. I found it very distracting on the F8500 in dark room viewing.

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post #190 of 222 Old 12-27-2013, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Agreed. I found it very distracting on the F8500 in dark room viewing.

On my 51F5300, I've measured the black level fluctuating between .004fl and .006fl in shifts from darker to lighter scenes, but that is with the Black optimizer on. With it off, it appears to be stable at .006fl, but I will have to go back an remeasure with an ANSI pattern.

With the black optimizer on, yes it can be mildly distracting, I maybe notice it a couple times throughout a movie. It's definately a minor issue for me, but not a deal breaker. .004 and.006 is not a dramatic difference. I still keep it on, as I want that lower black level.

I had a Panasonic GT25 with floating blacks that went from Jet Black to light Grey in the same scene that made me so sick to my stomach, I had to sell it. The 5300 is nowhere near as bad.
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post #191 of 222 Old 12-30-2013, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

it went back up a bit to 0.0027 fl around 1000 hours, though I didn't perceive any difference

To answer your question, even 0.004 should be great. What would concern me more is floating blacks where the black level rises with moderate to high apl scenes instead of being fixed to extremely low values like on the 2013 Panasonics

Oh, I didn't know floating blacks was an issue this year with Sammy.

How about ABL? I see it extremely rarely on my on my S64 and even then it's a slow dim and not a bother to me really. If it was "popping" all the time I'd be concerned. I know Will said it does have ABL, but as I've pointed out that means different things to different people. A slow dim is one thing, but a pop is another.

The biggest drawback to the S60 is the dithering. I'm surprised more people aren't bothered by it, unless mine is particularly noisy. I found putting the panel on mid brightness actually helped vs low and I went to brightness -2. This put my settings slightly off of posted calibrations, but I couldn't handle the dithering in dark scenes.

Also, the motion is bothering me, but I have to determine what' sgoing on there first. Some judder wouldn't be an issue, but this like a slight doubling or something on even slower motion, like a human head movement or even slow vertical pans. I need to find a tv with known good motion to compare to.
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post #192 of 222 Old 12-31-2013, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by aman74 View Post

Oh, I didn't know floating blacks was an issue this year with Sammy.

How about ABL? I see it extremely rarely on my on my S64 and even then it's a slow dim and not a bother to me really. If it was "popping" all the time I'd be concerned. I know Will said it does have ABL, but as I've pointed out that means different things to different people. A slow dim is one thing, but a pop is another.

The biggest drawback to the S60 is the dithering. I'm surprised more people aren't bothered by it, unless mine is particularly noisy. I found putting the panel on mid brightness actually helped vs low and I went to brightness -2. This put my settings slightly off of posted calibrations, but I couldn't handle the dithering in dark scenes.

Also, the motion is bothering me, but I have to determine what' sgoing on there first. Some judder wouldn't be an issue, but this like a slight doubling or something on even slower motion, like a human head movement or even slow vertical pans. I need to find a tv with known good motion to compare to.

The F8500 deifnitely has floating blacks and I imagine the lower models do too as it has to do with the panel driving method Samsung uses (which is different from the current Panasonics, that have zero floating blacks)

ABL is on every plasma and the S60/S64 is no different. The changes (transitions) are rarely visible and when they are it's quite subtle and more gradual than 'brightness pops'

Dithering is something that only gets bothersome on dark scenes from very close to the screen.

Motion for me is fine on everything but 30 fps video games, where it's just ok.

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post #193 of 222 Old 12-31-2013, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

The F8500 deifnitely has floating blacks and I imagine the lower models do too as it has to do with the panel driving method Samsung uses (which is different from the current Panasonics, that have zero floating blacks)

ABL is on every plasma and the S60/S64 is no different. The changes (transitions) are rarely visible and when they are it's quite subtle and more gradual than 'brightness pops'

Dithering is something that only gets bothersome on dark scenes from very close to the screen.

Motion for me is fine on everything but 30 fps video games, where it's just ok.

Thanks for the input. I realize that ABL is on every Plasma, but the handling of it is the key. As I said and you agreed, it's not an issue on the S60, but I've seen reports of it being one on the F5300, so wondered if it was just that people couldn't deal with it at all or that it's more obvious on that model, with popping, etc...

I can see the dithering from a normal viewing distance on dark scenes. I have the set adjusted a bit darker than I'd like to minimize it. I haven't opened my second S64 yet to check that one. I'm wondering if there's a panel variance in this regard as I've heard a couple people mention it being pretty bad, but others not having an issue obviously. Maybe eyesight and powers of perception are also coming into play.
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post #194 of 222 Old 12-31-2013, 12:43 PM
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Screen size and viewing distance are factors as is content.

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post #195 of 222 Old 01-04-2014, 03:14 PM
 
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Rtings website shows that the highest bright/white point for F5350/f5300 is only 86cd/m^2 - is that true? I thought that even mid-level plasmas could do better than that. Has anyone gotten a higher white point than that?
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post #196 of 222 Old 01-04-2014, 03:36 PM
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Rtings website shows that the highest bright/white point for F5350/f5300 is only 86cd/m^2 - is that true? I thought that even mid-level plasmas could do better than that. Has anyone gotten a higher white point than that?
That measurement is taken with a full white screen test pattern. With normal content the set has plenty of light output for a plasma. My biggest problem with this TV and the 5500 is that they are very reflective, even for a set that doesn't have a filter.


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post #197 of 222 Old 01-04-2014, 08:34 PM
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with a 11% standard window I get 35 fL with contrast 95/100 and cell light 20/20... contrast 100 is more like 38-39 fL

(PN51F5300)

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post #198 of 222 Old 01-08-2014, 04:08 AM
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hi,

can someone please share the inputlag from the f5350/f5300 ? i can´t trust the measures from inputlagdatabase.

thx
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post #199 of 222 Old 01-08-2014, 06:22 PM
 
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This TV is not that bright when it comes to 24p viewing. I keep measuring 95 cd/m^2 even when the background is black with just a small squared white window. Also, at 24p, the lowest black level I can reach is 0.022. I think that 24p enables the 72/96Hz mode which is not as bright and not as deep. At 60Hz, it measures up to 106 cd/m^2 and down to 0.013 cd/m^2.

Man, if only they would make plasma TVs smaller. 51" at 1080p is just plain silly... Video games look great on it, but pixels are too big.
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post #200 of 222 Old 01-08-2014, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

This TV is not that bright when it comes to 24p viewing. I keep measuring 95 cd/m^2 even when the background is black with just a small squared white window. Also, at 24p, the lowest black level I can reach is 0.022. I think that 24p enables the 72/96Hz mode which is not as bright and not as deep. At 60Hz, it measures up to 106 cd/m^2 and down to 0.013 cd/m^2.

Man, if only they would make plasma TVs smaller. 51" at 1080p is just plain silly... Video games look great on it, but pixels are too big.

did you set film mode to cinema smooth for 24p signals? and what size window are you using to measure white levels?

my F5300 produces about 35 fL with 11% regular windows and that's with 60p and 24p signals... darkest black is 0.004 fL for 60p and 24p as well (black optimizer set to dark room)

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post #201 of 222 Old 01-09-2014, 08:10 AM
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I too was able to calibrate to 35fl with 10% windows with both 24p and 60hz content, with or without cinema smooth engaged. More than enough brightness for my dim basement environment. I also measured .004 fl black levek in either mode.
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post #202 of 222 Old 01-09-2014, 08:58 AM
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for black optimizer, what does bright room or auto do?

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post #203 of 222 Old 01-09-2014, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

This TV is not that bright when it comes to 24p viewing. I keep measuring 95 cd/m^2 even when the background is black with just a small squared white window. Also, at 24p, the lowest black level I can reach is 0.022. I think that 24p enables the 72/96Hz mode which is not as bright and not as deep. At 60Hz, it measures up to 106 cd/m^2 and down to 0.013 cd/m^2.

Man, if only they would make plasma TVs smaller. 51" at 1080p is just plain silly... Video games look great on it, but pixels are too big.

you should use a calibration BD/DVD on a standalone BD player or PS3/PS4/Xbox One... using a PC as a pattern generator doesn't always work right

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post #204 of 222 Old 01-09-2014, 06:25 PM
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you should use a calibration BD/DVD on a standalone BD player or PS3/PS4/Xbox One... using a PC as a pattern generator doesn't always work right

How are you finding gaming on this? Lag? Game mode picture quality?
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post #205 of 222 Old 01-10-2014, 09:27 AM
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How are you finding gaming on this? Lag? Game mode picture quality?

can't detect any playing NFS Rivals on the PS4... I don't use game mode but have tried both calibrated movie and standard modes

(keep in mind I'm nowhere near as sensitive to input lag differences as your are)

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post #206 of 222 Old 01-16-2014, 01:04 PM
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Without necroing this thread too horribly what's everybody's experience been with this TV? I recently moved and need to get a larger TV for the living room and my local BestBuy has 2 of these listed on open box specials for roughly $100 off.

 

I've never owned a strict plasma set and have been waffling between this set and the 60" E-series Vizios (of which have an unfortunate plague of problems it seems). My living room is fairly small and reasonably well light-controlled with black-out curtains and I've got both an Xbox and a desktop to cover any "smart" TV features.

 

 

Stoked to be diving into AV/HT on my own!

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post #207 of 222 Old 01-17-2014, 09:20 AM
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Without necroing this thread too horribly what's everybody's experience been with this TV? I recently moved and need to get a larger TV for the living room and my local BestBuy has 2 of these listed on open box specials for roughly $100 off.

I've never owned a strict plasma set and have been waffling between this set and the 60" E-series Vizios (of which have an unfortunate plague of problems it seems). My living room is fairly small and reasonably well light-controlled with black-out curtains and I've got both an Xbox and a desktop to cover any "smart" TV features.


Stoked to be diving into AV/HT on my own!

I bought an open box 51 at best buy for $500, best $500 dollar I ever spent. As long as you can black out light, it is probably the better and more reliable option than the Vizio.
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post #208 of 222 Old 01-20-2014, 02:58 AM
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Local Best Buy has an open box 60F5300 that's geek squad certified(past excellent condition?) for $729, is that a good deal?
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post #209 of 222 Old 01-20-2014, 03:20 AM
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Local Best Buy has an open box 60F5300 that's geek squad certified(past excellent condition?) for $729, is that a good deal?

Maybe it is excellent, but there's no reason to buy open box Samsung plasmas at this juncture. The only reason a lot of people here shifted to being more friendly to open box Panasonics just because you can't get the damn things anymore, so if it has to be open box then that's what it is. But the Samsungs aren't even scarce, yet.
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post #210 of 222 Old 01-24-2014, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato Lovesu View Post

hi,

can someone please share the inputlag from the f5350/f5300 ? i can´t trust the measures from inputlagdatabase.

thx
Kato

interested in this too...
elmorage is offline  
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