Samsung F5350 Series? F5350 vs S60? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 218 Old 10-07-2013, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I've searched and see a few things on it, but virtually no long term or first hand experience with this set.

Looks like this is the warehouse version of the F5300. They've added an AR filter, just like the Panasonic S60 and S64 with Costco. It's currently under $650 at Sam's Club for the 51" version of the F5350.

Now there seems to be not a lot of love here for the F5300 and I'm just wondering why.. there also isn't a whole lot of professional reviews either but the few I've seen mention the display being really reflective, so the AR filter might make this a significantly more appealing TV?

So I'm looking for some advice, whether to get the F5350 for the AR filter or the S60 which seems to me much more popular here.. I'm a bit worried about not having the filter because I'm used to a 2010 PN50C680 with an AR filter in my living room (this set is going into my bedroom).

I'm mainly concerned about gaming quality (ghosting/motion blur, input lag) and sports (more ghosting concerns.. I'm on an awful Vizio LCD right now..) especially hockey..

I've seen some things in other Samsung sets about the brightness controls being hell for hockey, but I've not noticed it at all on the PN50C680.. so would I notice it on the F5350?

Thanks for any and all advice!

Apologies for the different questions scattered around!
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post #2 of 218 Old 10-08-2013, 08:13 AM
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I have one, I've wrote a few things about it on here, including posting my Calibration setttings.

In a nutshell, I love the set. I use it as my basement TV mainly for video games and watching football when my fiance banishes me to the basement for being too loud. I got an open box 51 inch for around 500 at Best Buy, so check there, I've seen a couple others at mine. I've had mine about three months now.

It doesn't seem to be a popular model because its a barebones set, no smart features, AR filter or 3D. But it has features that I consider to be vitaly important (as I calibrate my TV's) 10pt Greyscale, a full CMS, Cinema Smooth etc, all things that you don't normaly see in a lower end model. And the black level measurement that I took was very impressive in this price range.

For the price it's a steal. However, I would not put it in a room that isn't light controlled, bright lights kill the otherwise excellent contrast on the set and any lights over head or in front of the set will be reflected in the screen. But I notice the same thing on my Panasonic GT50 that has an excellent AR filter as well, so none of them are perfect. But if your watching in dimmer or darker room, the picture is incredible. Since mine is in the basement, I have no issues.

As far as the brightness pops, yeah they are definately there like they have been in previous years with Samsung, not any worse so If they didn't bother you before, then you should be fine. Not a hockey guy but I have noticed it from time to time during football and golf. It doesn't bother me a ton.

As far as video processing, I don't notice any ghosting, input lag, judder etc. It seems fine to me. I'm not really a twitch gamer, but I've played Halo multiplayer on it and I've noticed no issues, even with game mode not activated. No blur for sports either.

If you have any other questions, I'll try to answer them
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post #3 of 218 Old 10-08-2013, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will7046 View Post

I have one, I've wrote a few things about it on here, including posting my Calibration setttings.

In a nutshell, I love the set. I use it as my basement TV mainly for video games and watching football when my fiance banishes me to the basement for being too loud. I got an open box 51 inch for around 500 at Best Buy, so check there, I've seen a couple others at mine. I've had mine about three months now.

It doesn't seem to be a popular model because its a barebones set, no smart features, AR filter or 3D. But it has features that I consider to be vitaly important (as I calibrate my TV's) 10pt Greyscale, a full CMS, Cinema Smooth etc, all things that you don't normaly see in a lower end model. And the black level measurement that I took was very impressive in this price range.

For the price it's a steal. However, I would not put it in a room that isn't light controlled, bright lights kill the otherwise excellent contrast on the set and any lights over head or in front of the set will be reflected in the screen. But I notice the same thing on my Panasonic GT50 that has an excellent AR filter as well, so none of them are perfect. But if your watching in dimmer or darker room, the picture is incredible. Since mine is in the basement, I have no issues.

As far as the brightness pops, yeah they are definately there like they have been in previous years with Samsung, not any worse so If they didn't bother you before, then you should be fine. Not a hockey guy but I have noticed it from time to time during football and golf. It doesn't bother me a ton.

As far as video processing, I don't notice any ghosting, input lag, judder etc. It seems fine to me. I'm not really a twitch gamer, but I've played Halo multiplayer on it and I've noticed no issues, even with game mode not activated. No blur for sports either.

If you have any other questions, I'll try to answer them

Thanks for the response!

That makes me feel a lot more confident about purchasing it!

I don't really care about 3D because it seems to largely be kind of fizzling out, the PS4 doesn't look to be emphasizing it at all. Smart features are nice but also kind of redundant with game systems (that usually have better apps)

I quite love our Samsung Plasma as it is, from what I recall it was a mid-high level TV at the time so I wasn't sure how an entry level one would fare against it a few years later.

Hockey is probably the toughest sport to display, LCDs motion blur is really distracting to me (my Vizio has the worst inverse ghosting I've ever seen) and Plasmas brightness controls tend to make the ice a bit off white looking, but I'd take that over seeing the puck and players trail around the ice.

I'll probably be ordering this in the next few weeks and I'll update and give some details on the AR filter of the F3550 model, hopefully it stands up to my 2010 Samsung's because even in relatively high light the TV is great looking.
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post #4 of 218 Old 10-09-2013, 06:46 AM
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I think this set should easily best your older set in contrast ratio at least, as the black level I measured on this set with my meter (.004 fl) is close to the flagship models black level from last year. Samsung made some incredible improvements in the back level performance on the F8500, and some of that has trickled down the line.
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post #5 of 218 Old 10-10-2013, 05:42 AM
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I'm still pretty impressed with my 60f5300. It was a stop gap purchase to last a year until I redo my room and go front projector but for the money I don't think I could have found better. I've been playing GTA5 on it and it's the first flat panel TV I've owned (out of 5) that doesn't leave me with tired sore eyes after an hour or two. It's also very bright for a plasma, much brighter and vibrant than my D550 while maintaining a very good black level. I'm sure the Panasonics and the F8500 are better sets but it would have cost me double to get the 60st60.
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post #6 of 218 Old 10-10-2013, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys!

I'm pretty set on the F5350, seems like price and AR filter combo is hard to beat. Especially with the S64 out of production.

I'll probably wait a few weeks to see what leaks about Black Friday, though it's an online only model so I'm doubting much chance of it being on sale.
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post #7 of 218 Old 10-10-2013, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will7046 View Post

I think this set should easily best your older set in contrast ratio at least, as the black level I measured on this set with my meter (.004 fl) is close to the flagship models black level from last year. Samsung made some incredible improvements in the back level performance on the F8500, and some of that has trickled down the line.

Wow, an 51 incher gets 0.004 fl? That's a first for 5 lumen tech Samsung. I thought they were basically the same as the last year as other review sites list MLL as 0.009 fl or 0.011.

How do they perform as a PC monitor use? Any ABL troubles or heavier buzzing? Any line bleeding like the D8000? I'm trying to recommend one to someone, but he's reluctant because of his noob fear of 'burn in'.
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post #8 of 218 Old 10-11-2013, 10:06 AM
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Yes, I got .004 fl with full field black pattern, with the black optimizer set to dark room. It does fluctuate a bit based on the content with the optimizer on, but nothing that was noticable in normal viewing. With the optimizer set to off, I measured .006 fl on a full field black pattern. I measured these with a retail i1 Display Pro, which from what I'm told is quite accurate at luminance levels such as this.

My freind has a 60 inch and I measured a higher black level compared to my 51, .008fl. That was with the optimizer off I believe. Still impressive. Speaking of the 60 inch version, I cannot recommend that due to the pentile display, I found it to lack the crispness of the RGB screen found on the 51 and other sizes.

Minimal line bleeding on mine, barely noticable.

Very agressive ABL in this set, there is a noticable dimming on brighter content. Not something I notice too much on normal viewing, only test patterns. Try hockey on it, according to alot of compaints on here, you will see it.

Buzzing is there on mine, but not too loud or distracting and I am forced to watch at low volumes alot. Thats par for the course with the technology.

I have a desktop HTPC hooked up to mine, seems to work fine as a monitor, I do light surfing on it.

Image retention is very slight, not noticable to me.
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post #9 of 218 Old 10-12-2013, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info Will!

I sort of assumed that the F5350 had an AR filter but now I'm not as certain.

The only thing I can see in the specs difference is that the F5300 advertises Clear Image Panel while the F5350 has Clear Image Panel and "Ultra Clear Panel"

Is the Ultra Clear Image Panel the anti-reflective coating? The description seems to indicate that but Samsung's live chat in two attempts didn't straight up say one had a filter and the other didn't.
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post #10 of 218 Old 10-16-2013, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry to bump this up, would love to hear from someone with first hand experience of the F5350, if it has an anti-glare filter and how well it works!
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post #11 of 218 Old 10-16-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtangletn View Post

Sorry to bump this up, would love to hear from someone with first hand experience of the F5350, if it has an anti-glare filter and how well it works!


The AR filter on the 5300 is useless. I've compared it to the S60 and they are both just as reflective. The main difference between the Samsung and the Panasonic is the contrast, which on the S60 is noticeably higher. Colors are also more accurate on the S60. Both sets offer excellent black levels. Although the Samsung's peak brightness is about 65CD/M2 higher, to me, they both looked just as bright under florescent lighting in the cinema mode (which is calibrated closest to ATSC specification and renders the most accurate picture quality. Each sets panel brightness was set to low).



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post #12 of 218 Old 10-17-2013, 09:12 AM
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anybody know where I can find a review on this tv. I've tried searching, but nothing. I'm interested in the video processing performance of this tv. will it be anything like the f5500 which failed badly "It failed the 24p test with too much judder in playback, bad news for movie fans". Also, can it play mkvs from usb connected?
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post #13 of 218 Old 10-17-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnb44 View Post

anybody know where I can find a review on this tv. I've tried searching, but nothing. I'm interested in the video processing performance of this tv. will it be anything like the f5500 which failed badly "It failed the 24p test with too much judder in playback, bad news for movie fans". Also, can it play mkvs from usb connected?

even if the TV fails proper handling of 1080/24p signals, you can just configure your BD player to output 1080/60p instead... you will get 2:3 pulldown judder, but it will still look fine and be better than having the TV do 1080/24p incorrectly

this is exactly what I do on my S60, which also fails the 1080/24p test with visible stutter on what should be relatively smooth pans or scrolling text


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post #14 of 218 Old 10-17-2013, 09:57 AM
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even if the TV fails proper handling of 1080/24p signals, you can just configure your BD player to output 1080/60p instead... you will get 2:3 pulldown judder, but it will still look fine and be better than having the TV do 1080/24p incorrectly

this is exactly what I do on my S60, which also fails the 1080/24p test with visible stutter on what should be relatively smooth pans or scrolling text

i will be using an htpc hooked up to tv, will it still be ok?
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post #15 of 218 Old 10-17-2013, 10:02 AM
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i will be using an htpc hooked up to tv, will it still be ok?

as long as your HTPC is set up to always output in 60p not 24p, you will be fine


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post #16 of 218 Old 10-17-2013, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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The AR filter on the 5300 is useless. I've compared it to the S60 and they are both just as reflective. The main difference between the Samsung and the Panasonic is the contrast, which on the S60 is noticeably higher. Colors are also more accurate on the S60. Both sets offer excellent black levels. Although the Samsung's peak brightness is about 65CD/M2 higher, to me, they both looked just as bright under florescent lighting in the cinema mode (which is calibrated closest to ATSC specification and renders the most accurate picture quality. Each sets panel brightness was set to low).



Ian

Thanks for the response.

My friend picked up a 5300 and seeing it in person made me realize the importance of a good filter. As far as I know and can tell the 5300 doesn't have a filter at all.

Now the F5350 is the warehouse version of the 5300 which may or may not have an AR filter.

I have confirmed with multiple Samsung live chat representatives that it features an Ultra Clear Panel and the F5300 does not. I don't know how much or if this affects the glare at all. I'd hope that like Panasonic did with the S60/S64, the warehouses are getting filters added.

I know my Samsung PN50C680 has the Ultra Clear Panel and it looks like night and day vs the F5300.. but as I said I'm not sure if the Ultra Clear Panel is the filter or not.

I can't seem to find a single review or even real life pictures of the F5350 at all.

I'm waiting to see what kind of deals leak out for Black Friday Plasmas.. if nothing seems good or if a bunch of S64s come out of the woodwork I'll probably purchase this and give some pics/examples.
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post #17 of 218 Old 10-17-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnb44 View Post

anybody know where I can find a review on this tv. I've tried searching, but nothing. I'm interested in the video processing performance of this tv. will it be anything like the f5500 which failed badly "It failed the 24p test with too much judder in playback, bad news for movie fans". Also, can it play mkvs from usb connected?

Most Samsung plasma's this year, including the 5300 series offer an anti-judder feature called cinema smooth which I believe uses 4:4 pull down to bump up the frame rate to 96hz. This is normally only found on higher end plasmas and was not mentioned in the reviews I read. It may be due to the fact that many purist believe it's not faithful to film due to the additional smoothness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtangletn View Post

Thanks for the response.

My friend picked up a 5300 and seeing it in person made me realize the importance of a good filter. As far as I know and can tell the 5300 doesn't have a filter at all.

Now the F5350 is the warehouse version of the 5300 which may or may not have an AR filter.

I have confirmed with multiple Samsung live chat representatives that it features an Ultra Clear Panel and the F5300 does not. I don't know how much or if this affects the glare at all. I'd hope that like Panasonic did with the S60/S64, the warehouses are getting filters added.

I know my Samsung PN50C680 has the Ultra Clear Panel and it looks like night and day vs the F5300.. but as I said I'm not sure if the Ultra Clear Panel is the filter or not.

I can't seem to find a single review or even real life pictures of the F5350 at all.

I'm waiting to see what kind of deals leak out for Black Friday Plasmas.. if nothing seems good or if a bunch of S64s come out of the woodwork I'll probably purchase this and give some pics/examples.



The 5300 has the Clear Image Panel, which has an AR filter, but the reviews I've read claim that it is not very effective. I can only assume that the 5350 is the same set.

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/PN51F5300AFXZA



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post #18 of 218 Old 10-17-2013, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Most Samsung plasma's this year, including the 5300 series offer an anti-judder feature called cinema smooth which I believe uses 4:4 pull down to bump up the frame rate to 96hz. This is normally only found on higher end plasmas and was not mentioned in the reviews I read. It may be due to the fact that many purist believe it's not faithful to film due to the additional smoothness.
The 5300 has the Clear Image Panel, which has an AR filter, but the reviews I've read claim that it is not very effective. I can only assume that the 5350 is the same set.

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/PN51F5300AFXZA



Ian

Diana: Ultra Clear Panel is a technology that reduces reflection of ambient light from the screen and increases the contrast level. The result of this advanced technology is crisp image details, natural skin tones, excellent shadow details, and vibrant colors.
Diana: The clear image technology feature provides anti-reflection for a better viewing experience. The single layer panel structure eliminates the production of dual images and blurring, especially at off angle viewing.
James: Ok, so Ultra Clear Panel has an anti reflective coating on it?
Diana: Yes, you are correct.

Broad, but apparently there's a difference...

Someone order it and let us know :P!
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post #19 of 218 Old 10-17-2013, 08:49 PM
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Diana: Ultra Clear Panel is a technology that reduces reflection of ambient light from the screen and increases the contrast level. The result of this advanced technology is crisp image details, natural skin tones, excellent shadow details, and vibrant colors.
Diana: The clear image technology feature provides anti-reflection for a better viewing experience. The single layer panel structure eliminates the production of dual images and blurring, especially at off angle viewing.
James: Ok, so Ultra Clear Panel has an anti reflective coating on it?
Diana: Yes, you are correct.

Broad, but apparently there's a difference...

Someone order it and let us know :P!


Typical Samsung confusion.


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post #20 of 218 Old 10-17-2013, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Typical Samsung confusion.


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Exactly, they're also typically broad.

Surely someone on the internet owns this set?
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post #21 of 218 Old 10-18-2013, 06:03 AM
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Just read a review on this Samsung and for under 1k you cannot beat the picture it is also , according to the reviewer a far brighter picture than the s60.
If PQ is what you're after the Sammy is superior .

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post #22 of 218 Old 10-18-2013, 06:34 AM
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What aspect of picture quality other than light output is the Sammy superior in ? Definitely not black level which is the most important picture aspect

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post #23 of 218 Old 10-18-2013, 06:40 AM
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The black levels on the Sammy are superior as is the color spacing .
http://reviews.*******************.com/samsung-plasma-tv/samsung-pn51f5300.html

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post #24 of 218 Old 10-18-2013, 06:47 AM
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Where in that review does it say the blacks are better than the S60 ?

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post #25 of 218 Old 10-18-2013, 06:56 AM
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Where doesn't it ? Inky blanks are it's strength

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post #26 of 218 Old 10-18-2013, 07:04 AM
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There is no direct comparison to the S60 anywhere in that review, the S60 has inky blacks as well read the CNET review. That is a general term show me a specific mll measurement that shows the 5350 is superior. I see the Samsung might have superior calibration controls but beyond that there really is no basis for your statement.

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post #27 of 218 Old 10-18-2013, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

There is no direct comparison to the S60 anywhere in that review, the S60 has inky blacks as well read the CNET review. That is a general term show me a specific mll measurement that shows the 5350 is superior. I see the Samsung might have superior calibration controls but beyond that there really is no basis for your statement.

CNET measured 0.004fl on the S60, which is the exact same measurement I get on my 51F5300 with the black optimizer set to dark room. With that off, I measured 0.006fl which is still not bad.

I took these measurement with a retail i1 Display Pro, which from all accounts is very accurate at these luminance levels.

Both of these sets are very nice, and very comparable in my opinion. Sure the Panasonic can get brighter, but I watch in a darker room and calibrate to 35fl and had no problem getting that with the 5300.

I'd probably give the edge to the Panasonic, but it lacked a couple of features that I had issue with (i.e. lack of proper 24p cadence, the 5300 has Cinema Smooth that does work properly) and I got an unbelievable deal on an open box 5300. The S60 also has the edge in smart apps, but thats not an issue for me.

You can't go wrong with either set.
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post #28 of 218 Old 10-18-2013, 07:52 AM
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I am sure the Samsung is a nice set wasnt disputing that, just the statement that was made about the Samsung having better blacks and color accuracy with absolutely nothing to back it up. Only downside to the Samsung's is they float blacks because of the way the panel is driven.

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post #29 of 218 Old 10-18-2013, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will7046 View Post

CNET measured 0.004fl on the S60, which is the exact same measurement I get on my 51F5300 with the black optimizer set to dark room. With that off, I measured 0.006fl which is still not bad.

I took these measurement with a retail i1 Display Pro, which from all accounts is very accurate at these luminance levels.

Both of these sets are very nice, and very comparable in my opinion. Sure the Panasonic can get brighter, but I watch in a darker room and calibrate to 35fl and had no problem getting that with the 5300.

I'd probably give the edge to the Panasonic, but it lacked a couple of features that I had issue with (i.e. lack of proper 24p cadence, the 5300 has Cinema Smooth that does work properly) and I got an unbelievable deal on an open box 5300. The S60 also has the edge in smart apps, but thats not an issue for me.

You can't go wrong with either set.


Both TV's are very close. The Samsung actually has a higher peek brightness and the S60 slightly deeper blacks according to Review.com and their measurements. I agree, you can't go wrong with either set.


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post #30 of 218 Old 10-18-2013, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I am sure the Samsung is a nice set wasnt disputing that, just the statement that was made about the Samsung having better blacks and color accuracy with absolutely nothing to back it up. Only downside to the Samsung's is they float blacks because of the way the panel is driven.
Samsung a far better peak brightness & as good or better blacks plus better color spacing....

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