Panasonic exiting plasma business by march 2014 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 09:20 AM
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http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1381318916

"Panasonics has issued the following statements to FlatpanelsHD.
The content of the report is not something that was announced by Panasonic.
The company is looking into a variety of options regarding the strategy for the PDP business, but nothing has been decided at this stage.
The company is looking into a variety of options regarding the utilization of the Amagasaki Factory, but nothing has been decided at this stage.

The Amagasaki plant is Panasonic's only active plasma factory, after the other factories were shut down recently."

I find it hard to believe that they have not decided yet, like they claim in that statement, since CES 2014 is just three months away, unless their senior executives are just dithering fools who are not capable of making timely decisions.
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post #32 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 09:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dallow View Post

Whoops, I meant to add *"to me since 2005".

I don't see Nikkei sourced. It says "sources close to us [Reuters].
Why would it need to say something about OLED?
It originates from Nikkei, I am fairly sure. One would think they'd have more inside scoop on where Panasonic is heading next (even a single mention about 4K/LED production plans). Another A#1 competitor gone from the display market is not something to celebrate. I realize it's only one news article, and others are covering the OLED angle...
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post #33 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 10:09 AM
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I believe that soon (6-8 months) Panasonic will be completely out of the plasma business. However, stories like these may help to sell existing inventory, which should help Panasonic with their bottom line.

Paul
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post #34 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post

I believe that soon (6-8 months) Panasonic will be completely out of the plasma business. However, stories like these may help to sell existing inventory, which should help Panasonic with their bottom line.

Paul

If true, this is great news for Samsung. It would no doubt boost their plasma sales next year, which might justify more R/D to even further improve their already excellent F8500 model. Maybe Samsung will eventually surpass the KURO in blacks. IF they can do the brightness of the F8500 and KURO level blacks, that will surpass Panasonic's best and compete with the performance of OLED. Samsung's plasma future looks good.
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post #35 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 11:42 AM
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At the very least, Samsung needs to get their blacks less than 0.001 fL. and eliminate any remaining issues with floating blacks. If they can do that, I think their plasma business will prosper for several more years.
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post #36 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

At the very least, Samsung needs to get their blacks less than 0.001 fL. and eliminate any remaining issues with floating blacks. If they can do that, I think their plasma business will prosper for several more years.

Would be great, but won't matter to sales if there is no longer any competition from Panasonic. Eye melting brightness...all that matters these days.

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post #37 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 11:47 AM
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This is terrible news, and likely even if Panasonic hasn't confirmed. I'm sad to hear it- my first plasma was a Panasonic. Maybe my last one will be as well.
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post #38 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 11:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

If true, this is great news for Samsung. It would no doubt boost their plasma sales next year, which might justify more R/D to even further improve their already excellent F8500 model. Maybe Samsung will eventually surpass the KURO in blacks. IF they can do the brightness of the F8500 and KURO level blacks, that will surpass Panasonic's best and compete with the performance of OLED. Samsung's plasma future looks good.
Just what we need, a Korean plasma monopoly.
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post #39 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 11:55 AM
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Samsung could very well do the opposite. With no competition, why put a lot of money into improving their plasmas?

My thoughts are with 4K LED's coming down in price that has/will kill high end plasma sales. It will be a near impossible sale to get the average Joe to to buy a $3.5K plasma vs a $3.5K 4K LED.

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post #40 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 11:57 AM
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Panasonic's statements are legaleeze and pretty much meaningless....My guess is they're done, if not they'll make an update to the cosmetics and move on.
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post #41 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Just what we need, a Korean plasma monopoly.

Better than no plasma.
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post #42 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 12:15 PM
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The F8500 is a step in right direction. Without brightness, how are plasmas going to compete with LCDs? I don't even find the F8500 bright enough. The REAL eye-scorching LCDs will scorch it anyways.

No sales, no plasmas.
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post #43 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 12:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

The F8500 is a step in right direction. Without brightness, how are plasmas going to compete with LCDs? I don't even find the F8500 bright enough. The REAL eye-scorching LCDs will scorch it anyways.

No sales, no plasmas.
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post #44 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

The F8500 is a step in right direction. Without brightness, how are plasmas going to compete with LCDs? I don't even find the F8500 bright enough. The REAL eye-scorching LCDs will scorch it anyways.

No sales, no plasmas.

Doesn't the F8500 output like 60 fL?
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post #45 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

Samsung could very well do the opposite. With no competition, why put a lot of money into improving their plasmas?

To compete with more expensive OLED.
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post #46 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 12:28 PM
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In a DARK room, why else would I want a plasma? smile.gif

I looked around a light controlled showroom comparing the F8500 and the VT60,ST60, E8000, GT50, and VT30 and so on. They also had LCDs and their crappy blacks reared their ugly head in a light controlled environment, but at least they had luminance no Samsung F8500 or Panasonic ST60 could ever hope to match. Heck, even my Sony Trinitron BVM can get brighter than the F8500.

I'm mostly satisfied with the F8500's black and white, but to be saying "it's too bright" is an exaggeration.
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post #47 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 12:32 PM
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Yes, but you have to also factor in ABLs. While the F8500 has the least aggressive ABL compared to virtually all plasmas, I could still see some darkening brightness pop here and there whenever there were full whites. The LCDs and CRTs and OLEDs still suffer less of that issue compared to plasmas.

I don't need an LCD like brightness either, but the F8500 is still no LCD when it comes to brightness. The only LCDs that were dimmer were those entry level direct-lit Samsungs that used very few LEDs. The edge-lits still blow it away in terms of eye-searing brightness.
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post #48 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 12:40 PM
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Yes, but you have to also factor in ABLs.

OK, how much does it output factoring in ABL?
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post #49 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

OK, how much does it output factoring in ABL?

About 40fL-ish according to Chad? (Cal-Day) Of course, for some odd reason, 100% white windows actually output more luminance than mixed contents according to other reviews, so the realistic figure for actual contents are actually lower. either way, I wasn't that bothered. (The same goes for the ST60, I could be happy with its brightness)
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post #50 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 12:55 PM
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About 40fL-ish according to Chad? (Cal-Day)

Oh, I thought it was at least 50 fL. What does an average LED put out?
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post #51 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

Oh, I thought it was at least 50 fL. What does an average LED put out?

http://www.**************.com/content/792-review-panasonic-tc-p60vt60-plasma.html

Chad's Panasonic VT60 review does a very good job of ABL comparison between the VT60 and the F8500. The F8500 is definitely NOT perfect when it comes to the ABL.

http://d37ddz0i31n1wa.cloudfront.net/attachment/eb0a1f006c043e431d68ba10d3969f0b6fab0ae7/contrast.jpg

(yeah, yeah, televisioninfo.com is a questionable review site, but at least they tend to get the brightness right, and there's no way an F8500 will be able to get 288 cd/m2 with all the ABLs worked down)
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post #52 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

In a DARK room, why else would I want a plasma? smile.gif

I looked around a light controlled showroom comparing the F8500 and the VT60,ST60, E8000, GT50, and VT30 and so on. They also had LCDs and their crappy blacks reared their ugly head in a light controlled environment, but at least they had luminance no Samsung F8500 or Panasonic ST60 could ever hope to match. Heck, even my Sony Trinitron BVM can get brighter than the F8500.

I'm mostly satisfied with the F8500's black and white, but to be saying "it's too bright" is an exaggeration.

This is entertaining information you are sharing - were you at a plasma museum? Some of the displays you mention have been out of production for over two years (VT30). Talk about not moving inventory rolleyes.gif

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post #53 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 01:59 PM
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This is entertaining information you are sharing - were you at a plasma museum? Some of the displays you mention have been out of production for over two years (VT30). Talk about not moving inventory rolleyes.gif

HAHAHA! A Plasma museum, that's a very good one! That's SO true because yes, there were that many plasmas in that showroom. (and very few LCDs) The sales guy has said they always move the plasmas to the back so the customers can have a fairer judgement with their purchases. He himself believes so strongly in plasmas so he wanted to put plasmas in a place where they can shine the most...in a dark room. I live in a back-water town called Toronto, so our plasma selections are not as diverse as yours. (No Samsung F8500 in store in Futureshop, WTF?!) I was so surprised with the VT30 myself (they even had a Samsung "D"8000! Can you believe that?) , but surprisingly, it held its own quite well next to the likes of the F8500, the VT60 and the ST60, I could see myself happily owning one. Plasmas rule!
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post #54 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 02:37 PM
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No salesman has ever recommended a plasma.
It's no wonder they aren't selling.

RIP Plasma
Long live OLED

Funny you mention that because my father and I went in 3-4 years ago looking for a new set to replace our DLP.. we went in there looking at LCDs and the guy steered us to a Panasonic Plasma and completely sold us on it.. sadly when he went to grab it for us they were sold out.. we did stick with Plasma and ended up going for a 3D Samsung at Best Buy.
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post #55 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 03:07 PM
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To compete with more expensive OLED.


Their LED sets do just fine with that. As far as Image Quality, which I am sure is what you meant. I don't think Samsung really cares as much about that, mostly sales. When their plasma sales drop to a level where they can no longer make a profit, they will stop making them too, regardless of whether they are their best sets or not.

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post #56 of 475 Old 10-09-2013, 09:41 PM
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Both surprised and not surprised if this is true. I thought we'd at least get some refreshed models for 2014, but I guess not. Get your ZTs and VTs while you can! Hope my VT50 lasts...

Well it ain't over until the fat lady sings, even though she started talking... I'm also glad I have the last GT50 plasma they ever made.

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post #57 of 475 Old 10-10-2013, 02:13 AM
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Well, this is very sad news if correct. Panasonic makes the top plasmas with the best black levels. I am glad now I went ahead and got a 50ST60 while still available. One of the best reviewed TVs this year, so it is ironic that sales may no longer be very good. And Panasonic increased brightness with the 2012 and 2013 models, so I find it hard to believe people don't find them bright enough. I have my brightness set to zero and it is plenty bright. And it seems in the LCD/LED market, Sony, Samsung and Sharp are the top performers, with LG grabbing the budget minded market. So Panasonic was better known and more highly regarded for plasma. Not sure they will do that great in the LED market. And I wonder if they will consider selling their Panasonic/Kuro plasma technology to Samsung?
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post #58 of 475 Old 10-10-2013, 02:29 AM
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Plus it is amazing that people think these torch mode LEDs look good in stores. You have to look selectively to find a model with decent black levels, but they still have problems with clouding, flashlighting, and side angle vision fade. And the decent ones are way overpriced compared to the plasma choices. The S60, S64, and ST60 are much better bangs for the buck in terms of features and picture quality. Too bad the majority of the general public is too blind or ignorant to realize this. They would just rather go to Walmart and buy some crappy LED from Vizio . The brighter the better. Geez. Some Samsung and LG LEDs are nice, and may be necessary for smaller sizes. But overall I still think plasma produces a much nicer picture at a more affordable price.
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post #59 of 475 Old 10-10-2013, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

Plus it is amazing that people think these torch mode LEDs look good in stores. You have to look selectively to find a model with decent black levels, but they still have problems with clouding, flashlighting, and side angle vision fade. And the decent ones are way overpriced compared to the plasma choices. The S60, S64, and ST60 are much better bangs for the buck in terms of features and picture quality. Too bad the majority of the general public is too blind or ignorant to realize this. They would just rather go to Walmart and buy some crappy LED from Vizio . The brighter the better. Geez. Some Samsung and LG LEDs are nice, and may be necessary for smaller sizes. But overall I still think plasma produces a much nicer picture at a more affordable price.

I think that the combination of pegged contrast and grainy in-store demo feeds help to mask common problems inherit to modern LCD tech.
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post #60 of 475 Old 10-10-2013, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post

I believe that soon (6-8 months) Panasonic will be completely out of the plasma business. However, stories like these may help to sell existing inventory, which should help Panasonic with their bottom line.

Paul

If true, this is great news for Samsung. It would no doubt boost their plasma sales next year, which might justify more R/D to even further improve their already excellent F8500 model. Maybe Samsung will eventually surpass the KURO in blacks. IF they can do the brightness of the F8500 and KURO level blacks, that will surpass Panasonic's best and compete with the performance of OLED. Samsung's plasma future looks good.

Yeah, I agree. You just wonder though if Samsung goes the other way and say screw it to plasmas, figuring hardly anyone will be buying them anymore? I hope you're right though, if there were no plasmas to choose from I'd be bummed and having to stick with my KURO for a damned long time . smile.gif
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