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post #181 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 04:22 PM
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Panasonic is reportedly exiting the plasma market as of March 2014. Does that mean there will be 2014 models and those will be the last? Each year's new models normally debut in March. Or will the 2013 models be the last? Still awaiting an official announcement.
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post #182 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Weboh View Post

I might be guessing, but it is a fact that lower-end models tend to last longer.

LG has been recently making plasmas which suck. I also have a relative who has a 2010 720p model, if I am not mistaken; so it is a recent thing.

in other words...since you are "guessing"

you no facts to back up what you stated.....rolleyes.gif

I have good friend in Texas that has the LG private branded Insignia model plasma( sold at Best Buy) from 2006-2007

Picture is average at best and it has some IR issues...but its still going strong

and as I stated before my mother and stepfather have LG 60" PK750....was their second from highest model in 2009-2010...and has THX certification and smart features

Black levels are average, as is its screen glare filter....color is pretty good...... value for the $$ is off the charts and its still going strong


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post #183 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

Panasonic is reportedly exiting the plasma market as of March 2014. Does that mean there will be 2014 models and those will be the last? Each year's new models normally debut in March. Or will the 2013 models be the last? Still awaiting an official announcement.

I cant imagine they will introduce new models and then stop making them almost immediatly

2013 is likely the last of the breed


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post #184 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Weboh View Post

Cute. CRT are still made, but they are made for airplanes. Built to last? I think either we have either a slow painful death like DLP or a niche market in the making.

Samsung hasn't said if they want to continue Plasma TV manufacture, also. They seem to deny everything, even though their plasmas have innovations too. Their panels are keeping pace with Panasonic, but the circuitry could use more tweaking.

I hope LG decides to do so something now that Panasonic is out of the way. I would put them in the hall of shame when it comes to PDP production.

two things. first, so far my plasmas have lasted longer than any CRT we've owned. but we didn't have a lot of good luck with the CRT's we had. 8yrs was about the limit before they either stopped working altogether or the picture was longer good(a couple went really blurry)

second, plasma's don't work well at elevations above like 6000feet, so no chance of them working in an airplane. i don't know which airlines you use, but the ones I've been on had lcd's.

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post #185 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Weboh View Post

I remember when both LCD and Plasma were crap. The OLED TVs have too many bugs to take seriously right now. A few hours at high contrast in air conditioned showroom, and you get burn-in. Perhaps, if it were liquid cooled, it might be practical.

my point is that there's a lot more room for advancement in OLED than there is plasma, and that's why companies are spending the money, and that's the technology those companies will NEED to sell not to go bankrupt. none of them will be able to back out of OLED at this point. whether or not it's 'better', it's next, and it will be forced upon us.

but still, when you look at the hurdles plasma has overcome, i'm not so worried about OLED. these first gen OLED's look a heck of a lot better(both in picture quality and reliability) than first gen plasmas did. i just wish these companies wouldn't force 5yrs of trial and error on the market before releasing a product that finally works as well or better than what it replaced. in other words, i expect it to take several years before an OLED surpasses the overall performance of a vt60, but i also expect there to be more room for improvement once they do, whereas there's only a little room for improvement over todays plasmas.

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post #186 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

You can actually buy a really nice projector for far less than that.

Front projection on a 125" screen is my ultimate home theater goal, but still at least a few years away from that as I need a dedicated room. The 65VT60 will have to do for a while.

absolutely true. this past summer i upgraded both my plasma and projector. plasma was a 64" f8500 and projector was a jvc x35. the projector was actually about 250bux less, but i paid 'market' value for the projector, and bought the plasma through a friend at 'cost' pricing which was 1000bux off sticker price. so anyway you slice it, the projector was less. overall i'd say they provide about equal picture quality, but the plasma does some things a little better, and the projector does others a little better. but you absolutely need the room to support a projector. my projector has blacker blacks than the plasma, but the light from a cellphone screen aimed at the screen is enough to destroy that.

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post #187 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Read reviews from experts or even people on Amazon, and you'll see they all say if you are within a few feet of the tv, 4K resolution is noticeably better than 1080p. Most people sit farther than that. thus, for me, it would be beneficial, and not for most others.

but if you're sitting close because of poor vision... my head hurts.

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post #188 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

Panasonic is reportedly exiting the plasma market as of March 2014. Does that mean there will be 2014 models and those will be the last? Each year's new models normally debut in March. Or will the 2013 models be the last? Still awaiting an official announcement.

if Panasonic sells it's last plasma in march 2014, they should be in stores through the summer of 2014.

i look at one of two scenarios:
-the '60' series produced for 2013 is the last they will make, and there's no way they will last until march(the st60 has been 'sold out' here since about aug)
-they will make a '70' series that will hit stores in march

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post #189 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 08:48 PM
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This is sad news. There is absolutely no reason for plasma not to succeed in the marketplace. My KRP-500m is so much better than any LED display I've ever seen, miles better. People who watch films at my house are amazed at the picture quality. It is just a night and day difference. I just can't imagine that if people were told that, for roughly the same price,. you can get a tv that is dramatically better when viewed in your own home they wouldn't opt for superior quality.

What this seems to signal to me is that the best displays Pioneer ever made, the monitors (141, 101, 600m, 500m) will be the best plasma displays every made. Forever.

The real tragedy is that there is still such a long time to wait for OLED to really replace plasma as an option for most people. How many years until you can buy a 50 or 60" OLED for $3000? And we really don't know how OLED will catch on in the marketplace. If the average consumer can't tell or don't care about the quality difference between LCD and Plasma, who is to say that they will care about the superiority of OLED?


Also, I always thought that Pioneer's big issue was that they didn't have a diversified product lineup. They ONLY sold expensive, extremely cutting edge plasma displays for videophiles. They put all their eggs in one basket and neglected entirely the average consumer who doesn't care about picture quality.

Why couldn't a company like Panasonic continue to sell more expensive, high quality Plasma displays for the discerning enthusiast? They could keep their cheaper LCDs and other models and make a majority of their profits in those areas. Maybe they could discontinue their cheaper plasmas like the ST60 and keep only the VT and ZT models?

It doesn't make any sense. The average consumer doesn't konw anything about quality.
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post #190 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Weboh View Post

Burn-in is rarer on a cheap PDP, but LG only makes cheap models and they still burn-in. They aren't even trying.

The ST60 maybe a Camry, but it is more reliable than the turbo-charged ZT60. The ZT60 can be reliable, but it runs hotter, has fans, and requires more cautious use.

this is getting painful...

first, you keep comparing a mature technology to one in it's infantry. without exception, every first gen of a new technology had more 'issues' than what it replaced. but 95% of the time, those issues get fixed, and improved performance can be enjoyed and we wonder how we ever lived without it.

second, you're absolutely crazy if you think high end TV's are less reliable. they are not 'turbo-charged' cars that are pushed to their breaking points. if anything they are more reliable since the parts are usually hand picked, or have more stringent quality control. IF there's any evidence of cheap TV's being used longer, it's only because the owners either don't care enough to replace them, or don't use them often enough to wear them out. saying a zt60 is less reliable because an owner that watches 3hrs a night decides it's time for an upgrade because the blacks rose from .001 to .002 while the LG never got lower than .1 in it's life time isn't a fair measure. by that theory, the cheap one is super unreliable because it needed replacement on the first day(was never good enough to begin with). if you look at the number of hours a display works under controlled use, i can guarantee you that the least reliable units won't be the high end sets.

third, i don't think you understand burn-in at all. burn in is not something that was created with plasma's, it's found on CRT's as well. and burn-in is not the same as image retention. you seem to be flipping between those two interchangeably. why you would think the heat is responsible is beyond me.

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post #191 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jrodefeld View Post

This is sad news. There is absolutely no reason for plasma not to succeed in the marketplace. My KRP-500m is so much better than any LED display I've ever seen, miles better. People who watch films at my house are amazed at the picture quality. It is just a night and day difference. I just can't imagine that if people were told that, for roughly the same price,. you can get a tv that is dramatically better when viewed in your own home they wouldn't opt for superior quality.
i agree completely. the better product(that's also cheaper!) should never be the hard sell. it's like manufacturers couldn't state how good plasma was without pointing out how bad their LCD's were.
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What this seems to signal to me is that the best displays Pioneer ever made, the monitors (141, 101, 600m, 500m) will be the best plasma displays every made. Forever.
in some aspects, it looks that way. still, i think the 2013 offerings are plenty good, and hopefully we can ride them out until a suitable replacement is made
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The real tragedy is that there is still such a long time to wait for OLED to really replace plasma as an option for most people. How many years until you can buy a 50 or 60" OLED for $3000? And we really don't know how OLED will catch on in the marketplace. If the average consumer can't tell or don't care about the quality difference between LCD and Plasma, who is to say that they will care about the superiority of OLED?
again, i agree completely. yet another example of the manufacturers forcing an immature technology on us. maybe the sad truth is these companies are so poorly run that they can profit while selling TV's for 'only' 3000. maybe they are just creating a new technology as an excuse to jack prices up again. pretty unlikely anybody could sell a plasma, nobody how revolutionary, for 10k again.
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Also, I always thought that Pioneer's big issue was that they didn't have a diversified product lineup. They ONLY sold expensive, extremely cutting edge plasma displays for videophiles. They put all their eggs in one basket and neglected entirely the average consumer who doesn't care about picture quality.

Why couldn't a company like Panasonic continue to sell more expensive, high quality Plasma displays for the discerning enthusiast? They could keep their cheaper LCDs and other models and make a majority of their profits in those areas. Maybe they could discontinue their cheaper plasmas like the ST60 and keep only the VT and ZT models?

It doesn't make any sense. The average consumer doesn't konw anything about quality.

i'm going to blame this one on marketing. honestly, i started looking for a replacement for my RPTV right around the time the kuro's were dominating the plasma market, and i never heard of them... i ended up buying some cheap Samsung plasma that was half as good as my CRT it replaced, and I've been hating on plasmas and lcd's pretty much ever since until this year. now, whether or not i would have spent 6grand on the kuro instead of the 1k i spent on the Samsung, i would have to say no. but if i had the choice again today(not being in university and poor anymore) the choice is obvious. i can spend 6k and love my tv, or waste 1k and still be in the market for a tv.

i think the problem with your plan, is that if the 'discerning enthusiast' is buying 4grand zt60's, then who the heck is buying 10k oled's? or 6k oled's? at some point these companies need us to start buying oled's, and we'll do that a heck of a lot sooner(therefore at a higher price) if LCD is the only other option.

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post #192 of 475 Old 10-14-2013, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

seriously WTF. Why do the panels with the best picture and tech keep dying? Pioneer and now Panny Plasma? I don't even understand.

Follow the money, money doesn't lie ... people do .not enough unit sales to profitably sustain continued production ,a business decision on Panasonic's part they have probably separated close to
50,000 employees lately and are in retrenchment/ survival mode at least with respect to their TV and consumer electronics businesses as are Sharp,Toshiba and Sony.

Sony is fortunate in that their very profitable insurance business is bigger and more profitable than their electronics and entertainment divisions combined So for now at least they still have a sugar daddy with deep pockets . eek.gif

Ofc one has to wonder how the exposure potential of the recent disasters and nuclear mishaps along with risk analysis going forward in Japan are going to affect that business in the long term

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post #193 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 01:44 AM
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Picture Quality is going down the toilet!

All I can say is I told you so!

OLED is a pipe dream.

Get ready for Chinese 4K LCD that sucks!

I really do believe the reason this is happening is the movie industry is afraid that if home theater quality gets too high people will quit going to the movie theaters.

Have you noticed how even college football attendance is dropping? Notice that some of the stands are empty? Get a great big screen at home and some people say why pay more for tickets to actually go see the game!

My question is if there are no 2014 Panasonic plasma models will Samsung still produce plasmas in 2014?

There are many plasma lovers that will try to get the LAST great plasma before they are all gone.

The real bad thing is that LCD--as bad as it is--is getting worse! No Full Array backlighting. Many LCDs are reverting to 120 from 240.

It's almost here--are you ready for the worldwide LCD ONLY domination apocalyptic picture quality holocaust?

If you don't know what that is--don't worry--you'll enjoy whatever is produced and eat up the sewage that is LCD!!!
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post #194 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 01:59 AM
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Dont worry Artie OLED will be fine ................... If we can afford it someday I just bough a new Plasma 8 mo. ago so hopefully it will last awhile .

The cheap 4k LED menace is out there that is true we can only hope the stalwarts like Sharp,Panasonic,Sony and Toshiba (maybe Samsung) can fend them off with decent LED and later affordable OLED !

Movie industry is afraid of everything................. always have been since TV came into our homes in the 50 s playing Howdy Doody and I love Lucy even more so now.
they might have to take a pay cut soon they don t like it .

I would prefer full array LEd backlights also I think only one sony is left and its a carry over model then a couple of
maybe TCL or Hisense or somebody has s coupe but I will take my chances on one of the brands above first.

I read that the new Sharp elite is pretty good and the TOTL Sammie and Sony LED then Pioneer has a new Pro LED based on the Sharp Elite RGBY LED panel. not on US website yet but in Australia now somebody here linked it

To tell you the truth I have a new Toshiba 32 LED - LCD (second set) I watch it more than the big one because of it s location
picture is real decent Toshiba can do colors and detail well ! except for the occasional motion blur . I will probably get another Toshiba maybe a 46 or 47 or whatever they have maybe a 50 but thats a stretch in that location not impossible though. so if the prices are the same (they seem to be with Toshiba ) I might just do that (that room is to bright for plasma _) and put this one in the studio .in a couple of mo. I have to admit Blue Ray and Football or Baseball and some movies on plasma are hard to beat .

regards

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post #195 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 06:41 AM
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The Magnolia by me had one of the Samsung OLEDs on display. It looked great. Excellent black levels and bright enough to compete for big box attention next to the LEDs. The curve is ridiculous though. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if Panasonic moves resources over to OLED development. It will likely be a few years before costs go down. That's the only really depressing thing about this and likely why I'll pick up a pdp in the next few weeks to replace my 42" Pioneer 950.
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post #196 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

this is getting painful....
No it's not. I stand by my comment. Lowerend model plasmas from any company are more durable and reliable. OLED currently has serious durability issues, which may never get fixed. Since Plasma is being dumped for this tech, I would like these issues fixed.
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third, i don't think you understand burn-in at all. burn in is not something that was created with plasma's, it's found on CRT's as well. and burn-in is not the same as image retention. you seem to be flipping between those two interchangeably. why you would think the heat is responsible is beyond me.
Yes, you can have kinds of IR that aren't burn-in, but burn-in is the only one worth mentioning. And secondly, the higher the contrast-- the higher the heat; and heat on a plasma causes burn-in. Leave the air conditioning to low on a moderately high contrast setting and you can get burn-in. Today's plasmas run cooler for a reason.
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post #199 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jrodefeld View Post


It doesn't make any sense. The average consumer doesn't know anything about quality.

Your last sentence answered all your other questions. And because of your last sentence, Panasonic's profit pretty much dried up for plasma sales. Business dies. Sad, really. I don't think there will be a 2014 PLASMA line-up from Panasonic, but if there is, it will probably be a couple of sizes of the ST70. The plant in Japan is probably manufacturing (with the rest of its available parts) the last Panny Plasmas as we speak/type. Plant closes by March, 2014 and any 70 series get sold along with their other TV product line 'til gone.
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post #200 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Picture Quality is going down the toilet!

All I can say is I told you so!

OLED is a pipe dream.

Get ready for Chinese 4K LCD that sucks!

I really do believe the reason this is happening is the movie industry is afraid that if home theater quality gets too high people will quit going to the movie theaters.

Have you noticed how even college football attendance is dropping? Notice that some of the stands are empty? Get a great big screen at home and some people say why pay more for tickets to actually go see the game!

My question is if there are no 2014 Panasonic plasma models will Samsung still produce plasmas in 2014?

There are many plasma lovers that will try to get the LAST great plasma before they are all gone.

The real bad thing is that LCD--as bad as it is--is getting worse! No Full Array backlighting. Many LCDs are reverting to 120 from 240.

It's almost here--are you ready for the worldwide LCD ONLY domination apocalyptic picture quality holocaust?

If you don't know what that is--don't worry--you'll enjoy whatever is produced and eat up the sewage that is LCD!!!

Great post. And to further what you said, and what's been said by others, you'll probably have cheap displays for the masses; and VERY expensive displays for those who can afford to easily drop $5k to $10k on the 'primo' models and technology. The gap increases.
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post #201 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 12:14 PM
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Given all the news and speculation, I decided I shouldn't wait.

 

I had an aging Toshiba 50" HD CRT-RPTV showing signs of horizontal scanning issues.  I was planning to replace it over the holidays or next spring.  Seeing the availability issues, I replaced it yesterday with a 60ST60.

 

All I can say is WOW! I have zero new buyers remorse! (Except for the sound from the TV. Gotta do something for day to day viewing when I don't want to use the full on 5.1 system.)

 

Hopefully this will last me till the next big thing is mature.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

but if you're sitting close because of poor vision... my head hurts.
My issue can't be fixed. So it's either sit normal distance and see less detail or sit closer. I do both depending n what I'm watching. Even sitting close, I still don't see some details. tongue.gif
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How is OLED a pipe dream when all the reviews say it's indistinguishable from perfection? The ONLY thing you can ay is it's not proven it can keep the good picture for x amount of time and that's a guess as you have not owned one to say for sure.
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post #204 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Picture Quality is going down the toilet!

All I can say is I told you so!

OLED is a pipe dream.

Get ready for Chinese 4K LCD that sucks!

It's almost here--are you ready for the worldwide LCD ONLY domination apocalyptic picture quality holocaust?

If you don't know what that is--don't worry--you'll enjoy whatever is produced and eat up the sewage that is LCD!!!

Artwood,

If Alabama plays for the National Championship again this year, but the only way to see it is on an edge lit LCD would you watch?
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post #205 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 05:42 PM
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According to a post on another site by Robert of VE there will be a Samsung "G" series plasma in 2014.
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post #206 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TWD View Post

According to a post on another site by Robert of VE there will be a Samsung "G" series plasma in 2014.
Samsung may be behind the curve a little, but I like how they are sticking with what works for the moment.
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post #207 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 06:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Weboh View Post

Samsung may be behind the curve a little, but I like how they are sticking with what works for the moment.
They're certainly not behind on the brightness curve. If they eclipse the black level of the VT/ZT60 and can manage to tame the floating blacks, I might even be tempted. I don't see the point, however, considering their sizable investment in OLED production (they want the folks who fiend the PQ, particularly the deep blacks, of plasma to pay triple that for OLED).
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post #208 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

They're certainly not behind on the brightness curve. If they eclipse the black level of the VT/ZT60 and can manage to tame the floating blacks, I might even be tempted. I don't see the point, however, considering their sizable investment in OLED production (they want the folks who fiend the PQ, particularly the deep blacks, of plasma to pay triple that for OLED).
I figure companies can at least keep making what works, until the next technology works. LG seems to be a bit ahead of Samsung on the OLED yields.
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post #209 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 07:29 PM
 
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Yes, they have been since the race began because they use a different, easier manufacturing method (WOLED, with RGB color filters). Samsung's method seems to be providing the better overall quality so far (soz, somelogin wink.gif).
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post #210 of 475 Old 10-15-2013, 09:33 PM
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CES 2014 should be interesting. I think someone gave Sony and Panasonic an insider hint though. I suspect their idea might be the best. Panasonic has for years burrowed or taken innovations from an American inventor who has an interest in designing plasma tvs. I wonder if he switched to innovating diode based displays.
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