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post #91 of 133 Old 09-08-2014, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ShaneBolda View Post
Youre right, for the money, its great... but its still near a thousand dollars... the 64 wasnt pentile and wasnt much more, looking atleast 2x as good...
But it isn't nearly $1000. Most times you can find it on sale for ~$650-$700. That's a ridiculous price for a 60" panel with excellent picture quality and black levels. The savings from using a pentile panel are passed onto the consumers with the PN60F5300...it's not like Samsung is "tricking" consumers into paying more for something less. The 64" non-pentile display was almost 2X in price when it was available. AFAIK, the F5300 specifically came about from Samsung market research where they got the feedback that a no frills, no nonsense plasma with great PQ for a low price would be of interest to consumers.
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post #92 of 133 Old 09-08-2014, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
These stores don't care about selling the 1 or 2 plasma's they have in their showroom and why would they care about educating people on a tech that in a year from now will be no more.

Now 2 or 3 years ago before plasma was in process of being extinct, then I could see your point about not selling people the best TVs around and pushing crappy LEDs over it.
Coming from a person who sold TV's for over 10 years I have to say you couldn't be more wrong. You're looking at it from a customer standpoint, not a sales standpoint. Sales are sales, period. Retail stores are not saying during their staff meetings, "Let's not bother pushing a technology on our customers that is about to go extinct. Let's do them a favor and make sure to future proof them by selling them the latest and greatest such as 4K even though it has limited support or OLED even though it's limited in availability and expensive.". That's just not realistic when merchandise needs to be moved, especially merchandise that IS going to be extinct at some point. Stores don't want be overloaded with it.

Another point is 1080i/1080p will remain for many of the coming years so it makes perfect sense for a retailer to push the best technology to watch it on (Plasma) especially if they have stock available. Buying a Plasma today doesn't mean the consumer is doomed tomorrow because they bought a technology that is being discontinued by the end of the year. Their Plasma will be good for many years to come. If retail stores avoided selling great technology just because they are prejudice against it due to the technology becoming extinct that's bad business and they are not doing a service to the customer.

Plasma's biggest problem was how it was displayed in a retail store. Always setup in a brightly light part of the store. Because they couldn't put out the same amount of light in torch mode as those crappy LCD's people felt they would be dim in their home and it's a hard sell to overcome. Best Buy is getting better (but it's getting too late now) and Fry's Electronics' TV department is all setup properly in a dark room simulating the inside of a customer's home, like a TV department should be. Plasma's other big problem was it's reputation for IR. Companies producing OLED's better work on this ASAP or it will have the same reputation as Plasma. IR issues don't stop me from buying great technology but that's an issue that will scare many away which is why it's been such an easy sell for LCD's.
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post #93 of 133 Old 09-08-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by HLdan View Post
Coming from a person who sold TV's for over 10 years I have to say you couldn't be more wrong. You're looking at it from a customer standpoint, not a sales standpoint. Sales are sales, period. Retail stores are not saying during their staff meetings, "Let's not bother pushing a technology on our customers that is about to go extinct. Let's do them a favor and make sure to future proof them by selling them the latest and greatest such as 4K even though it has limited support or OLED even though it's limited in availability and expensive.". That's just not realistic when merchandise needs to be moved, especially merchandise that IS going to be extinct at some point. Stores don't want be overloaded with it.

Another point is 1080i/1080p will remain for many of the coming years so it makes perfect sense for a retailer to push the best technology to watch it on (Plasma) especially if they have stock available. Buying a Plasma today doesn't mean the consumer is doomed tomorrow because they bought a technology that is being discontinued by the end of the year. Their Plasma will be good for many years to come. If retail stores avoided selling great technology just because they are prejudice against it due to the technology becoming extinct that's bad business and they are not doing a service to the customer.

Plasma's biggest problem was how it was displayed in a retail store. Always setup in a brightly light part of the store. Because they couldn't put out the same amount of light in torch mode as those crappy LCD's people felt they would be dim in their home and it's a hard sell to overcome. Best Buy is getting better (but it's getting too late now) and Fry's Electronics' TV department is all setup properly in a dark room simulating the inside of a customer's home, like a TV department should be. Plasma's other big problem was it's reputation for IR. Companies producing OLED's better work on this ASAP or it will have the same reputation as Plasma. IR issues don't stop me from buying great technology but that's an issue that will scare many away which is why it's been such an easy sell for LCD's.
Best Buy isn't getting better. I just received an email from them this morning which was all about 4K and all the advantages it has over regular 1080p TV's. They even had that in 4K sets black tones will be blacker. Shuuuure they will. Lol

Yeah, Best Buy is getting better just like every other retailer.

Sorry, but you didn't convince me of anything different then what I already think.

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post #94 of 133 Old 09-08-2014, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ShaneBolda View Post
Originally Posted by sstoinclus
The Samsung F8500 was the only plasma that literally gave me a shock this year. I got the money ready but still can't buy it because of input lag. I hope by the next year, I can also join in the fun




Input Lag for gaming is totally overrated and I would argue not even noticeable... Unless you are playing HIGHLY COMPETITIVELY or for money, get this TV, try it out, and youll never want to game on an LED/LCD again... My best friend is a highly paid Art Lead for Blizzard and he has had a 64" high end Samsung plasma (ill get the model #), does a lot of gaming (we mainly play D3, but he plays FPS games and others), and he loves it and doesnt really give two shits... picture quality is everything, the input lag is usually barely if even noticeable... my point is, is that he gets paid 6 figures+ a year to do art for a video game company (hes an amazing artist, he sees better than most of us, he has to... hes the guy who digitally hand painted 90% of those D3 load screens for example, was the UI lead for SC2, etc...) plays games, and has a plasma.. i dont know the numbers of IL on these models or his, but, when I had the cheap 60"f5300, it was fine, i dont remember noticing anything, and that cant possibly have a BETTER IL than the 8500 OR my friends $3.3k older plasma, but maybe im wrong...
I couldn't agree more and I mentioned this many posts ago and got slammed by a couple of people who told me that I was wrong for saying so, so I don't bother to bring it up anymore. My PS4 works great when I play Infamous Second Son, Watch Dogs and a few other games. I don't experience any input lag and I don't use Game mode. This leads me to understand that any amount of input lag on the F8500 must affect only gamers that do multiplayer where timing is very critical for every shot made. IMO this doesn't qualify the F8500 as having poor input lag because that doesn't apply to all people that game on their TV.

As I mentioning if this is a problem for some people and they were buying this TV primarily for gaming they should be looking at a professional monitor that's made for such activities.
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post #95 of 133 Old 09-08-2014, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
Best Buy isn't getting better. I just received an email from them this morning which was all about 4K and all the advantages it has over regular 1080p TV's. They even had in there 4K sets have better black levels then 1080p sets. Lol

Yeah, Best Buy is getting better just like every other retailer.

Sorry, but you didn't convince me of anything different then what I already think.
I didn't convince you because you completely misunderstood what I said. I didn't say anything about Best Buy getting better at what they are offering to their customers. Did you notice my sentence following my line about Best Buy getting better? I mentioned Fry's electronics as well. I was referring to them getting better about how they display TV's. They're putting many of their finer TV's in the Magnolia section where's it's much darker and their TV department's lighting is dimmer, not by a lot, but dimmer.

Of course they will push new technology, especially in an email. Where did I say they wouldn't do that? I said retailers are not going to ignore great technology that's in their stores out of personal feelings just because that technology is disappearing. I'm referring purely on a store level. I just bought my F8500 6 weeks ago. I went into Best Buy and they had their 4K TV setup so customers couldn't miss them but guess what? The sales guy immediately walked me over to the Samsung F8500 and spent 15 minutes telling me how great the TV is. That's good sales. He didn't even bring up 4K until way later and even then he said the Plasma is still better due to the 4K's being LCD/LED TV's which is inferior to plasma.

I'm not making any attempt to convince you, I was saying you were dead wrong about retail stores purposely ignoring Plasmas on their selling floor when customers walk in to buy a new TV. It's not in the store's financial interest to do that.
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post #96 of 133 Old 09-08-2014, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by HLdan View Post
I didn't convince you because you completely misunderstood what I said. I didn't say anything about Best Buy getting better at what they are offering to their customers. Did you notice my sentence following my line about Best Buy getting better? I mentioned Fry's electronics as well. I was referring to them getting better about how they display TV's. Their putting many of their finer TV's in the Magnolia section where's it's much darker and their TV department's lighting is dimmer, not by a lot, but dimmer.

Of course they will push new technology, especially in an email. Where did I say they wouldn't do that? I said retailers are not going to ignore great technology that's in their stores out of personal feelings just because that technology is disappearing. I'm referring purely on a store level. I just bought my F8500 6 weeks ago. I went into Best Buy and they had their 4K TV setup so customers couldn't miss them but guess what? The sales guy immediately walked me over to the Samsung F8500 and spent 15 minutes telling me how great the TV is. That's good sales. He didn't even bring up 4K until way later and even then he said the Plasma is still better due to the 4K's being LCD/LED TV's which is inferior to plasma.

I'm not making any attempt to convince you, I was saying you were dead wrong about retail stores purposely ignoring Plasmas on their selling floor when customers walk in to buy a new TV. It's not in the store's financial interest to do that.
If these stores were interested in selling 1080p TV's in general, not even talking about plasmas, they would at least be playing something in 1080p on it! I don't see them playing 480p content on their 4K TV's so why are they doing it on 1080p TV's. They are playing stunning 4K video on the 4K TV's while a terrible Best Buy commercial plays on 1080p TVs.

Sorry, but to me that is not showing me they want to sell a 1080p TV of any kind.

It now goes beyond plasma and LED. It is about 1080p and 4K and now 1080p is becoming the red headed step child. Now throw in 1080p plasma and it is looked at like you are from the stone age. Lol
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post #97 of 133 Old 09-08-2014, 10:02 AM
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well of course...
they want to sell the TV's with the highest profit margin, and that's never the mature technology in the ultra-saturated market. it's going to the be the 'new thing' that's still selling for a premium.


but history has proven several times that newer isn't always better. so most of us have no problem sticking with this 'stone age' technology that we know actually is superior to the new stuff.
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post #98 of 133 Old 09-09-2014, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
These stores don't care about selling the 1 or 2 plasma's they have in their showroom and why would they care about educating people on a tech that in a year from now will be no more.

Now 2 or 3 years ago before plasma was in process of being extinct, then I could see your point about not selling people the best TVs around and pushing crappy LEDs over it.
i get that but theye ALWAYS had it that way... which is part of the reason plasmas ARENT coming back, which is STUPID... its the best picture possible besides a TRUE OLED 4K and maybe had people paid attention to it more and voted with their money PROPERLY, we would have BETTER PLASMAS... and they do cae to sell those, if they didnt, they wouldnt buy them to sell...

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post #99 of 133 Old 09-09-2014, 11:50 PM
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But it isn't nearly $1000. Most times you can find it on sale for ~$650-$700. That's a ridiculous price for a 60" panel with excellent picture quality and black levels. The savings from using a pentile panel are passed onto the consumers with the PN60F5300...it's not like Samsung is "tricking" consumers into paying more for something less. The 64" non-pentile display was almost 2X in price when it was available. AFAIK, the F5300 specifically came about from Samsung market research where they got the feedback that a no frills, no nonsense plasma with great PQ for a low price would be of interest to consumers.
MAYBE it was closer to 2x to start but nothing stays that way.. Lately the 60 was around 800, and the 64 was 1100... And you are absolutely incorrect that they werent deliberately trying to TRICK the average consumer who believes as advertised and displayed that they are buying a true 1080p plasma... cuz thats what was being sold... before i googled anything, thats what i assumed i was buying, cause thats what was being sold, and there wasnt reason to believe otherwise.... and a lot of these threads start out or get people interjecting the same information that they didnt know it was a different display...

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post #100 of 133 Old 09-09-2014, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HLdan View Post
Coming from a person who sold TV's for over 10 years I have to say you couldn't be more wrong. You're looking at it from a customer standpoint, not a sales standpoint. Sales are sales, period. Retail stores are not saying during their staff meetings, "Let's not bother pushing a technology on our customers that is about to go extinct. Let's do them a favor and make sure to future proof them by selling them the latest and greatest such as 4K even though it has limited support or OLED even though it's limited in availability and expensive.". That's just not realistic when merchandise needs to be moved, especially merchandise that IS going to be extinct at some point. Stores don't want be overloaded with it.

Another point is 1080i/1080p will remain for many of the coming years so it makes perfect sense for a retailer to push the best technology to watch it on (Plasma) especially if they have stock available. Buying a Plasma today doesn't mean the consumer is doomed tomorrow because they bought a technology that is being discontinued by the end of the year. Their Plasma will be good for many years to come. If retail stores avoided selling great technology just because they are prejudice against it due to the technology becoming extinct that's bad business and they are not doing a service to the customer.

Plasma's biggest problem was how it was displayed in a retail store. Always setup in a brightly light part of the store. Because they couldn't put out the same amount of light in torch mode as those crappy LCD's people felt they would be dim in their home and it's a hard sell to overcome. Best Buy is getting better (but it's getting too late now) and Fry's Electronics' TV department is all setup properly in a dark room simulating the inside of a customer's home, like a TV department should be. Plasma's other big problem was it's reputation for IR. Companies producing OLED's better work on this ASAP or it will have the same reputation as Plasma. IR issues don't stop me from buying great technology but that's an issue that will scare many away which is why it's been such an easy sell for LCD's.
THIS ^^^^^^^^... TY sir....
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post #101 of 133 Old 09-09-2014, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
If these stores were interested in selling 1080p TV's in general, not even talking about plasmas, they would at least be playing something in 1080p on it! I don't see them playing 480p content on their 4K TV's so why are they doing it on 1080p TV's. They are playing stunning 4K video on the 4K TV's while a terrible Best Buy commercial plays on 1080p TVs.

Sorry, but to me that is not showing me they want to sell a 1080p TV of any kind.

It now goes beyond plasma and LED. It is about 1080p and 4K and now 1080p is becoming the red headed step child. Now throw in 1080p plasma and it is looked at like you are from the stone age. Lol
becuase its the newest technology, with the highest resolution picture possible, and has the highest profit margins... it wows you into spending $4000 instead of $1500, and they get you on a payment card that you forget about making the proper payments on, and suddenly your $4000 tv costs you $4500 and they make even more money...

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post #102 of 133 Old 09-09-2014, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
well of course...
They want to sell the tv's with the highest profit margin, and that's never the mature technology in the ultra-saturated market. It's going to the be the 'new thing' that's still selling for a premium.


But history has proven several times that newer isn't always better. So most of us have no problem sticking with this 'stone age' technology that we know actually is superior to the new stuff.
this too ^^^^^^

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post #103 of 133 Old 09-10-2014, 01:57 AM
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It took me this long to replace my 720P Pioneer with a current model Samsung 1080P.
Despite its age I still sink my old Pioeneer plasma at 720p is better than a lot of LED 1080p's.

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post #104 of 133 Old 09-10-2014, 02:05 AM
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I can remember years ago. My buddy was telling me what a great deal he got on his LG LED compared to the 'outrageous price' I paid for my Pioneer plasma.
He aleays remarked how hard it was to see and it wasn't very clear, but he got a heck of a deal on it.
Justified.

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post #105 of 133 Old 09-11-2014, 12:39 AM
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I know this a 5300 vs 8500 thread, but here goes. I picked up my 5300A model three months ago after returning an LG 5700 plasma purchased in may from HHGREGG. Took back the LG for a few reasons such as audio synch, buffering, sometimes wouldn't recognize hdmi signals, and certain content had a dim overcast look to it, even the NBA finals! That kinda stuff happened about 10% of the time, but when that TV worked as it should, holy moly was the picture stunning! Movies looked great, network tv shows looked better than I've ever seen, and the news almost lifelike. The 5300 while brighter, better black levels and without the issues of the LG, it doesn't come close to the pq. IDK if its the pentile display, had a 50" 720p sammy plasma for five years and the picture was similar to the 5300.
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post #106 of 133 Old 09-12-2014, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
If these stores were interested in selling 1080p TV's in general, not even talking about plasmas, they would at least be playing something in 1080p on it! I don't see them playing 480p content on their 4K TV's so why are they doing it on 1080p TV's. They are playing stunning 4K video on the 4K TV's while a terrible Best Buy commercial plays on 1080p TVs.

Sorry, but to me that is not showing me they want to sell a 1080p TV of any kind.

It now goes beyond plasma and LED. It is about 1080p and 4K and now 1080p is becoming the red headed step child. Now throw in 1080p plasma and it is looked at like you are from the stone age. Lol
If they played 4K content on 1080p plasmas a lot of people would be SHOCKED at how good it would look (But that will never happen as it would cause people to scoff at 4K sets). 4K super-sampled to 1080p will look way better than even native 1080p content. Not quite as good as on a native 4K set, but the PQ advantages of plasma over LED would offset that some. It would be closer than many understand.
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post #107 of 133 Old 09-12-2014, 08:03 PM
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Everyone keeps saying this but YES IT IS AN ISSUE at 8' away, and probably further.. Ive seen people say it isn't an issue unless you are 2ft away or less and have to look for it... It's BS... I had one for 2 weeks at 8ft in a dark media room and its definitely noticeable during WHITE scenes (creates a dull white/grey effect) and during particle motion effects (image looks heavily pixelated and chopped up)...

The only F5300 TVs to get are the 51" or 64"... period.

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify on that 60 Pentile Debate... It is a deal breaker.
Have a 60F5300, don't agree, and don't see anything you are describing on my set.
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post #108 of 133 Old 09-12-2014, 08:28 PM
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If they played 4K content on 1080p plasmas a lot of people would be SHOCKED at how good it would look (But that will never happen as it would cause people to scoff at 4K sets). 4K super-sampled to 1080p will look way better than even native 1080p content. Not quite as good as on a native 4K set, but the PQ advantages of plasma over LED would offset that some. It would be closer than many understand.
why would this be?


i would expect UHD sources to look basically as good as 1080p sources on a 1080p display. but i don't understand how they could possibly look better

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post #109 of 133 Old 09-13-2014, 05:57 AM
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why would this be?


i would expect UHD sources to look basically as good as 1080p sources on a 1080p display. but i don't understand how they could possibly look better
Because real-time downscaling aka super-sampling is still using the original full detail video. In motion, any -macro blocking, artifacting, or aliasing that would be associated with a native 1080p feed would be greatly reduced. Motion macroblocking in particular on 4K feeds is, by default, much
smaller than macroblocking you would get on a 1080p feed.


Super sampling has been used for creating CG images/graphics for years and some PS4 games use it today-- the system renders the graphics of some games at a higher than 1080p resolution, then downscales them to 1080p to improve the overall look of the image.


What super sampling does, in essence, is maximize the capability and useage of a lower res panel. When I run 1080i or especially 1080p video on my 768p F4500s, the details present in the higher res video show up in my lower res set when the image moves.

Whether or not most 1080p sets can actually accept and downscale 4K video is something Im not sure of though. I dont think standard HDMI can handle 4K/60p video, but Im not 100% on that.
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post #110 of 133 Old 09-13-2014, 01:19 PM
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Still love my F5300. Especially for gaming. Lag is almost non-existant, despite the lag score on this thing. Idk what people talk about when they talk about lag, but playing COD or Halo, it's pretty much 1:1 movement. I see no lag whatsoever.

The pentile display does matter, only if you're looking for it. Of course, watching ESPN with a lot of white lettering, you can see it the most, or late night shows, in the faces, you can see the pentile pattern, however this is NOT a reason to NOT buy this TV. It's fantastic for the price and accurate colors.
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post #111 of 133 Old 09-13-2014, 03:39 PM
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Have a 60F5300, don't agree, and don't see anything you are describing on my set.
ok, well, you dont see as well then or dont have a better reference to notice.. the white level brightness is EASILY noticeable as it is dull, if you have a gaming console or something similar and are navigating menus with a transitions horizontal sweep or wipe, you would notice image retention/ lag in the motion... and you should notice pixelation, image chop during high motion explosions/ particle effects and lots of irregular patterns...

the pentile matrix sub-pixel pattern on the display and a dimmer backlight than newer plasmas, make for dull whites, as well as for the other issues...

my dad probably wouldnt notice and say it looks fine or that im being overly picky.. but i see it, and itss there... but im an artistic creative person with trained eyes as ive been a gamer all my life and spent years doing graphic design and other digital media arts...

im happy for you that you cant see it, i wish i didnt, i would save more money and be happy with the one i had a newer nice tv

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Originally Posted by Yuppers5 View Post
Still love my F5300. Especially for gaming. Lag is almost non-existant, despite the lag score on this thing. Idk what people talk about when they talk about lag, but playing COD or Halo, it's pretty much 1:1 movement. I see no lag whatsoever.

The pentile display does matter, only if you're looking for it. Of course, watching ESPN with a lot of white lettering, you can see it the most, or late night shows, in the faces, you can see the pentile pattern, however this is NOT a reason to NOT buy this TV. It's fantastic for the price and accurate colors.
thanks for your input and ability to noticce these things and be honest... i didnt notice much or any lag either... but i disagree and feel it IS a very good reason NOT to buy one... however it depends on your application... i may not care either for $800 if its a secondary tv.. but for my main, i need a better one...

"I could have just folded..." - GH
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post #113 of 133 Old 09-14-2014, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ShaneBolda View Post
you would notice image retention/ lag in the motion... and you should notice pixelation, image chop during high motion explosions/ particle effects and lots of irregular patterns...
The pentile panel functions the same way as any other plasma in regards to motion.

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Originally Posted by ShaneBolda View Post
the pentile matrix sub-pixel pattern on the display and a dimmer backlight than newer plasmas, make for dull whites, as well as for the other issues...
You don't really seem to know what you're talking about.

On a self emitting display such as plasma or OLED there is no back light. The dull whites you speak of are an effect of ABL, which is implemented to keep heat and energy levels down. This is present in all plasmas to varying degrees. In fact, the pentile arrangement is actually more energy efficient vs the standard rgb stripe (and costs less to manufacture, thus the lower price).

It appears you've decided to take on the "pentile panel sucks" position and justify it by imagining flaws that don't exist.
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post #114 of 133 Old 09-14-2014, 07:49 AM
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Best Buy isn't getting better. I just received an email from them this morning which was all about 4K and all the advantages it has over regular 1080p TV's. They even had that in 4K sets black tones will be blacker. Shuuuure they will. Lol

Yeah, Best Buy is getting better just like every other retailer.

Sorry, but you didn't convince me of anything different then what I already think.
that is accurate

Best Buy is all about out with the old and in with the new

even if the "new" is not necessarily better

though it does makes them tend to fire sale the old........and I am good with that


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post #115 of 133 Old 09-14-2014, 07:54 AM
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If they played 4K content on 1080p plasmas a lot of people would be SHOCKED at how good it would look .
they also might be shocked when they couldn't tell the difference in 1080P and a 4K picture on the same TV...

I watched two identical Sony 65" XBR's the other day both playing the same video
One 1080P and the other 4K

If they hadnt been marked I think I would have been hard pressed to tell the difference at 8 feet away

so much so that in a double blind test I bet many people couldn't tell

and I have 20/20( corrected) vision

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post #116 of 133 Old 09-14-2014, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
they also might be shocked when they couldn't tell the difference in 1080P and a 4K picture on the same TV...

I watched two identical Sony 65" XBR's the other day both playing the same video
One 1080P and the other 4K

If they hadnt been marked I think I would have been hard pressed to tell the difference at 8 feet away

so much so that in a double blind test I bet many people couldn't tell

and I have 20/20( corrected) vision

Warren
I wish I was able to see an example like this. The only 4K TV's I see are always playing next to 1080p TV's that are playing a terrible feed that would barely be considered HD.

I want to see the same footage playing side by side on a 4K TV and a 1080P TV, both with the highest quality recording for both. Unfortunately no store is going to do this so for many of us it will be hard to truly compare resolutions before purchasing.

Heck, we wonder why 4K content looks so good in a store. You can take 2 1080p TV's side by side and play a high quality 1080P video on one and then on the other 1080p TV next to it play a crappy Best Buy commercial and your 1080p TV playing the high quality video will look 4K to people. lol
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post #117 of 133 Old 09-14-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
I wish I was able to see an example like this. The only 4K TV's I see are always playing next to 1080p TV's that are playing a terrible feed that would barely be considered HD.

I want to see the same footage playing side by side on a 4K TV and a 1080P TV, both with the highest quality recording for both. Unfortunately no store is going to do this so for many of us it will be hard to truly compare resolutions before purchasing.

Heck, we wonder why 4K content looks so good in a store. You can take 2 1080p TV's side by side and play a high quality 1080P video on one and then on the other 1080p TV next to it play a crappy Best Buy commercial and your 1080p TV playing the high quality video will look 4K to people. lol
the colors may have looked at bit more saturated

but again...it was so close that I couldn't tell if it was a placebo effect being that the TV's were marked with signage

in anycase.....one thing I can honestly say that was not a placebo effect was the hideous off angle viewing that they both exhibited

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post #118 of 133 Old 09-14-2014, 01:38 PM
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I have a new 60F8500 scheduled for friday 9/19 delivery and the wait is killing me...

In the meantime anyone looking for a 64F5300 for a good price, here is a lightly used mint condition one with a 9 rating for sale from BHPhoto.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ries_full.html
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post #119 of 133 Old 09-14-2014, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ShaneBolda View Post
ok, well, you dont see as well then or dont have a better reference to notice.. the white level brightness is EASILY noticeable as it is dull, if you have a gaming console or something similar and are navigating menus with a transitions horizontal sweep or wipe, you would notice image retention/ lag in the motion... and you should notice pixelation, image chop during high motion explosions/ particle effects and lots of irregular patterns...

the pentile matrix sub-pixel pattern on the display and a dimmer backlight than newer plasmas, make for dull whites, as well as for the other issues...

my dad probably wouldnt notice and say it looks fine or that im being overly picky.. but i see it, and itss there... but im an artistic creative person with trained eyes as ive been a gamer all my life and spent years doing graphic design and other digital media arts...

im happy for you that you cant see it, i wish i didnt, i would save more money and be happy with the one i had a newer nice tv
Whites are so bright on this tv, I have to turn cell light down or I'm blinded in the dark. Pentile has nothing to do with how bright a white screen gets. You're talking a lot of nonsense here.

The pixelation you're describing during explosions/fast motion sounds like macroblocking from the source, not anything to do with the tv.

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Originally Posted by Yuppers5 View Post
The pentile display does matter, only if you're looking for it. Of course, watching ESPN with a lot of white lettering, you can see it the most, or late night shows, in the faces, you can see the pentile pattern, however this is NOT a reason to NOT buy this TV. It's fantastic for the price and accurate colors.
Sounds like poor upscaling by the tv or cable box. Are you saying text looks jagged on ESPN? The biggest result of this is because of upscaling. When I use NNEDI3 upscaling in madVR, ESPN text looks crisp and sharp. When I use any other algorithm text looks jagged. All cable boxes use a rudimentary upscaling algorithm, and text never looks good.

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post #120 of 133 Old 10-05-2014, 11:27 PM
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Got it!

Hey guys! Just wanted you all to know that Samsung seems to have a sale going on and I JUST ORDERED my 60" F8500 from BB w/ free delivery and 24 months interest free on my BB card.... WEEEEEEEEEE!!!! Get it Thursday

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