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post #1 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking to upgrade my 2008 Samsung LN650A-40 LCD and am going to go larger of course so here's some information. BTW, I am looking at the Samsung F6300 series. While I like Samsung I am not opposed to looking into other brands and am aware of the panel lottery in Samsung but really would like more information about that. From what I've read, this only effects the 60" and up panels. Do other brands do this? Also, I would consider a Panasonic Plasma too for better blacks but am leary of drawbacks of Plasma such as weight (in earthquake country) and burn it if that even exists any more.. I have not got into the Panasonic Plasma models to see the differences yet so that is where my fellow HTPC hobbyists can step in and give a guy a hand.

Thanks and here's my requirements based upon the recommendations in the first post of this thread..

1. Budget

Tight.. Trying to stay under $1500, hopefully $1000 and am not opposed to "Used Like New" from Amazon Warehouse Deals or similar.

2. Seating distance

13 feet but I am also looking at reconfiguring that to make it 10 feet which will also help with the rear surrounds in my 7.1 set up.

3. Size/placement limitations

This will be wall mounted above a fire place at about 4 feet AFF to the bottom of the set.

4. Uses and sources

HTPC mainly with an older Samsung 2500 BD-P for Blu-rays although I mostly rip them to my server now and playback via Media Player Classic - Home Cinema. I don't really care about 3D all that much and because I have an HTPC I don't need an awfully smart TV, just one that can be calibrated. My HTPC also uses an HDHR Prime tuner for CableTV content. Because I only have two sources and 7 HDMI inputs on my AVR, the number of inputs is really not an issue either.

5. Room lighting

Typical Family Room I guess with wood slat blinds on the windows that do a pretty good job cutting out external light. The room has dimmable light fixtures that are typically off for movie viewing but on for basic TV viewing. My current set has a glossy screen that helps with black levels for sure.

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post #2 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 12:48 PM
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For movie, definitely Panasonic plasma for unbeatable black level. For HTPC usage, definitely a LCD/LED for no risk on burn in. If you routine watch the TV in bright lighting, consider LCD/LED because plasma may not be bright enough. Either will be fine but you need pick your priorities.

Plasma has superb black level and contrast but not as bright as LCD/LED. It will also be heavier and consumes much more power than LCD/LED. Although permanent burn-in is not really an issue but temporary image retention still exists if you display static images/text a lot like those on a PC.

LCD/LED won't match the black level of a plasma especially the thinner, sexier edge lit models. The local dimming models (with decent black levels) are typically thicker, heavier and cost more. To compensate, it can be much brighter than Plasma and uses less energy.
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post #3 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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If I were to go with the Panny, which model do you think. Budget it tight so I will be no the smaller size of recommended for my viewing distance.

This will be used for both TV in light and movies in the dark so it is really a hard decision to make. My current LCD has some very dark blacks but does suffer on contrast a bit. I love that set and just wish it was a little bigger but jeez back then I think I paid $1500 or maybe even $2000 for it. I could go higher on price to get the right set up as I am particular in this regard.

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post #4 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 01:24 PM
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I'm on my second plasma (Panasonic 65GT30) and would get another. You could probably get a 60" to 65" Panasonic ST for your budget.

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post #5 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 01:25 PM
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Not sure if this matters, but seems relevant:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/08/panasonic-end-plasma-tv/
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post #6 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryansj View Post

I'm on my second plasma (Panasonic 65GT30) and would get another. You could probably get a 60" to 65" Panasonic ST for your budget.

Really? In the $1500 range?

How do their models stack up (ST, GT, VT) as far as quality and features? What to look for?

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post #7 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 01:59 PM
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The 60" ST60 is ~$1,300 (Warehouse Deal) to $1,500 new. You can get the 65" S60 for under $1,500 by dropping 3D. They stack up just like you said, ST, GT, then VT. The xT60 is the current model and the xT50 is the prior model. Head over to the Plasma forum to help you not easily decide and to spend more money when you do decide.

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post #8 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a post over there but I'm not getting any traction but it looks like I will be researching the Panasonic Plasmas. I am just wondering how they do in a lighted room like during the day or just general TV watching. I'm not worried so much about movie watching because then the lights are off usually.

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post #9 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 02:11 PM
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ST60 is rated the best TV this year. GT, VT, ZTs are just bells and whistles. LCD/LEDs can fake black levels but it will be unnatural. Local dimming is the only way to control the black level of the LCD/LED TVs but it too often has side effects. There is just no way completely block the backlight of the screen.
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post #10 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I have a post over there but I'm not getting any traction but it looks like I will be researching the Panasonic Plasmas. I am just wondering how they do in a lighted room like during the day or just general TV watching. I'm not worried so much about movie watching because then the lights are off usually.

Unless you have lights shining directly on to the screen, it shouldn't be a problem. I have my Plasma in bedroom and with two windows behind me, it is not much a problem. But just be clear, it will be no where near the max brightness of an LCD/LED TV, especially if you use the calibrated THX mode. But you can always turn up the brightness (and the power usage goes up with it).
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post #11 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I am not too interested in 3D so does the S60 have as good a panel? I do see that the TC-PST60 got the top rating on CNET.

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post #12 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay so CR panned the S series in their write-up for a few things that show the panel is inferior to the ST but what about these Sammy's and LG's that they list as Best Buys?


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post #13 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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S series:
Quote:
There was slight banding (unnatural contours) on scenes with subtly shaded light-to-dark areas, such as a sky during sunset, rather than a smooth transition in the shaded areas. Film mode operation for HD film-based content was only good with visible jaggies along the edges of objects during motion scenes on movies.

ST series:
Quote:
In scenes with subtly shaded light-to-dark areas, such as a sky during sunset, the TV did a very good job producing a smooth transition without distinct, coarse bands. The deinterlacing and film mode operations were excellent on HD content; there was little or no trace of jaggies on the edges of objects for video and film-based 1080i content.

LG60PH6700:
Quote:
In scenes with subtly shaded light-to-dark areas, such as a sky during sunset, the TV did a very good job producing a smooth transition without distinct, coarse bands. The deinterlacing and film mode operations were excellent on HD content; there was little or no trace of jaggies on the edges of objects for video and film-based 1080i content.

The LG is less.. Thoughts?

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post #14 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 03:40 PM
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If you care about quality don't even consider lcd. You're best bet is the Panasonic 65S64 plasma available at Costco/Sams Club for $1288. It's an S60 model with the better filter from the ST60 series.

I have a Panasonic plasma that I use exclusively for HTPC use for the past 4 years. Just auto hide the Windows task bar and do any web browsing in full screen mode and you will be fine.
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post #15 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

If you care about quality don't even consider lcd. You're best bet is the Panasonic 65S64 plasma available at Costco/Sams Club for $1288. It's an S60 model with the better filter from the ST60 series.

I have a Panasonic plasma that I use exclusively for HTPC use for the past 4 years. Just auto hide the Windows task bar and do any web browsing in full screen mode and you will be fine.
absurd comment many LED have great PQ - the Sony NX720 is outstanding and a CNET (aka plasma fanboi squad) fave...

Panny 55St60
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post #16 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

If you care about quality don't even consider lcd. You're best bet is the Panasonic 65S64 plasma available at Costco/Sams Club for $1288. It's an S60 model with the better filter from the ST60 series.

I have a Panasonic plasma that I use exclusively for HTPC use for the past 4 years. Just auto hide the Windows task bar and do any web browsing in full screen mode and you will be fine.

Is there more information on this? A link maybe?

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post #17 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

If you care about quality don't even consider lcd. You're best bet is the Panasonic 65S64 plasma available at Costco/Sams Club for $1288. It's an S60 model with the better filter from the ST60 series.

I have a Panasonic plasma that I use exclusively for HTPC use for the past 4 years. Just auto hide the Windows task bar and do any web browsing in full screen mode and you will be fine.
absurd comment many LED have great PQ - the Sony NX720 is outstanding and a CNET (aka plasma fanboi squad) fave...

I'll take what both of you are saying with a grain of salt. I'm more of a numbers guy so blanket sayings don't mean much to me either way. The other day someone was describing a TV as "baller" which basically means absolutely nothing to me.

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post #18 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

absurd comment many LED have great PQ - the Sony NX720 is outstanding and a CNET (aka plasma fanboi squad) fave...
I don't do lcd. Poor off angle viewing, blooming, flashlighting, poor motion performance. More expensive than plasma for worse quality. This argument has been debated before and it's nothing new. The only lcd I would consider is the Pioneer Elite, and it's ridiculously expensive.
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post #19 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Is there more information on this? A link maybe?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475776/panasonic-s64-at-costco/0_100
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post #20 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

absurd comment many LED have great PQ - the Sony NX720 is outstanding and a CNET (aka plasma fanboi squad) fave...
I don't do lcd. Poor off angle viewing, blooming, flashlighting, poor motion performance. More expensive than plasma for worse quality. This argument has been debated before and it's nothing new. The only lcd I would consider is the Pioneer Elite, and it's ridiculously expensive.

Now that lists the reasons why and is matching what I have been reading.. Back when I got the TV I am replacing Plasma was ridiculously over priced compared to LCD but that has all changed now. The LCD I am replacing does great on the blacks and was one of the top rated in 2008 but it does have a little bit of an issue with insufficient contrast between blacks and whites. The only drawback I am seeing with Plasma is using it in a lit room which is at least 50% of my viewing time.

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post #21 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Is there more information on this? A link maybe?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475776/panasonic-s64-at-costco/0_100

Thanks.

Apparently it is OOS but I'm not seeing discussion of the better filter for the S64 over the S60..

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post #22 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 04:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

ST60 is rated the best TV this year. GT, VT, ZTs are just bells and whistles. LCD/LEDs can fake black levels but it will be unnatural. Local dimming is the only way to control the black level of the LCD/LED TVs but it too often has side effects. There is just no way completely block the backlight of the screen.
Untrue.
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post #23 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 04:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

I don't do lcd. Poor off angle viewing, blooming, flashlighting, poor motion performance. More expensive than plasma for worse quality. This argument has been debated before and it's nothing new. The only lcd I would consider is the Pioneer Elite, and it's ridiculously expensive.
Pioneer doesn't make LCDs. You may be thinking of the Sharp Elite, and it *still* suffers from blooming and poor off-axis angle viewing.
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post #24 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

ST60 is rated the best TV this year. GT, VT, ZTs are just bells and whistles. LCD/LEDs can fake black levels but it will be unnatural. Local dimming is the only way to control the black level of the LCD/LED TVs but it too often has side effects. There is just no way completely block the backlight of the screen.
Untrue.

So what are the differences, keeping in mind that I use an HTPC and only need a "stupid" TV and am not a fan of 3D so much.

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post #25 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 04:35 PM
 
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The ZT is going to do the best at rejecting reflections and holding its blacks in lighting thanks to its exclusive AR coating/filter. It should also reduce internal reflections due to using only a single sheet of glass. The VT and ZT also both have better gradation so there should be less noticeable dithering and contouring.
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post #26 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

So what are the differences, keeping in mind that I use an HTPC and only need a "stupid" TV and am not a fan of 3D so much.

Differences are mainly features like different anti-reflective screen filters, handling of 24Hz signals (IIRC, only VT and ZT displays 24Hz signal at 96Hz, rest of them displays at 48Hz) and video processing as well as calibrations. ZT probably has a different screen with even deeper blacks.
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post #27 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that is the technical information I need somewhat.. I guess I have some reading to do so that I can balance budget with viewing distance and panel quality in my partially lit environment.

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post #28 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 05:17 PM
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I'm in this same predicament.  I was going to get a 65PS64 if they had one at Sam's today. But, they didn't and none of the other stores around here did either. I'm afraid they're never coming back so I'm back to the drawing board.

 

Sorry I don't have much to add to your search lol.


Panasonic 60VT60 | Denon x2000 | EMP E55Ti | E56Ci | E55Wi | PSA XS30
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post #29 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there more info about the filter on that panel someplace?

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post #30 of 57 Old 10-16-2013, 05:40 PM
 
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Not that I can recall specifically, but the Value Electronics panel shootout from May earlier this year shows how effective it is.
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