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post #1 of 22 Old 10-23-2013, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello everyone,

 

Over the past few weeks I've begun to realize that my SD CRT TV is no longer cutting it, while it's still working perfectly fine it is causing me a lot of eye strain when it comes to HD applications such as PS3. I figure that 10 years is a good run and that it is time to start looking for an HDTV. Initially I tried to avoid plasma because of the many horror stories I head of burn in, and because of what I assume would be a higher cost. However after some research I opened up to the idea of a plasma tv, so with that said my choice is narrowed down to either an LED  TV or a plasma, with me heavily leaning towards a Samsung PN43F4500 do to its' price (I'm trying to stay in the $400 range). However I have some questions about plasma tvs, and HD tvs in general that hopefully some kind souls can answer:

 

1.How realistic is the possibility of burn in for video games or cable tv? I plan on playing some PS3 and Nintendo Wii U eventually, I usually play for a few hours a week, nothing crazy. As for cable tv I usually only watch an hour or two a night.

 

2. Should I consider a 1080p LED LCD over a 720p Plasma? I've noticed a lot of people ragging on 720p, but all the 1080p plasmas seem to be out of my price range (~$400)

 

3. Is it true that I absolutely CANNOT lean a plasma tv over? I dont plan too but I am curious.

 

4. Does anyone have any better reccomendations than the Samsung PN43F4500? I am also considering the 42'' Panasonic plasma for $400 (can't remember the model # off the top of my head)

 

5. Any other fun stuff I should know about HD or plasma tvs?

 

 

Thanks everyone, sorry if my spelling is off...it's been a long day haha

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post #2 of 22 Old 10-23-2013, 05:37 AM
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1 I don't game but a few hours a week should be ok.Keep your settings contrast brightness a bit lower for the first couple hundred hours especially if your leaving non moving images on screen for long periods.You will see image retention if your sitting close, but I never even notice it from far back.Plasmas don't burn in as easily as they use to,but they will if you leave stuff on screen for hours and hours.And try too run most programs that fill the whole screen.

2 I don't have issues with 720 on mine.alot of it is the quality of program as they're all different quality on different shows.A lot of stuff is not crystal clear but some HDstuff is.The further back you sit the less you notice 1080.

3 you have too lay it down when you put the stand on so it's ok.I think the main worry is breaking the glass screen.careful when moving it like don't drop the box.And when moving it DON'T lay it flat on its glass screen.

4 I have last years e model and am satisfied with it.I believe this years is brighter but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Plasmas bright screens/programs and all white screens go really dim.Some plasmas go dimmer than others.They look better for dark moovies/programs than they do for some bright programs.it can look washed out in varying degrees on bright programs..Every light or object including yourself reflects off it so it's like a giant mirror so maybe put it up high and no real shiny bright lights in room is a must.setting picture settings correctly can help a little,but it's tricky on plasmas unless you know exactly what to look for which most people don't know.
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post #3 of 22 Old 10-23-2013, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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So a few hours is enough to irreparably burn an image into the screen? Is this assuming the image never moves this entire time? Like for cable tv I know the channel logo is only there when shows are playing, would the brief intermission during commercials be enough to offset the possibility of image burn?

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post #4 of 22 Old 10-23-2013, 03:57 PM
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it's a problem if your leaving the same image that does not move almost every day for hours and hours.I know some samsungs tested good for burn in issues.There's a screenwasher that helps with burn in and image retention.As long as you don't regularly leave game overnight or all day on nonmoving screen your ok.
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post #5 of 22 Old 10-23-2013, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh alright, I feel a little bit better about that then, seems like I just need to worry about HUD screens and status bars in video games then. Do you know if Panasonic may be less likely to get burn in? Or is it all the same?

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post #6 of 22 Old 10-23-2013, 04:50 PM
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Try a search on burn in test on Samsung tv ? Also Big hdtvs have more issues than old crts like washed out whites on plasmas and it's bigger so you see any flaws easier.I don't think mine scored real high with motion performance( though it's still Better than LCD led), but I think it tested good for green ghosting..
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post #7 of 22 Old 10-23-2013, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by stefus View Post

Hello everyone,

Over the past few weeks I've begun to realize that my SD CRT TV is no longer cutting it, while it's still working perfectly fine it is causing me a lot of eye strain when it comes to HD applications such as PS3. I figure that 10 years is a good run and that it is time to start looking for an HDTV. Initially I tried to avoid plasma because of the many horror stories I head of burn in, and because of what I assume would be a higher cost. However after some research I opened up to the idea of a plasma tv, so with that said my choice is narrowed down to either an LED  TV or a plasma, with me heavily leaning towards a Samsung PN43F4500 do to its' price (I'm trying to stay in the $400 range). However I have some questions about plasma tvs, and HD tvs in general that hopefully some kind souls can answer:
I don't want to discourage you, but being realistic, 400 is a cheap tv. cheap, not inexpensive, cheap. if your CRT is a good one, you may find a decrease in overall performance. my first plasma was an entry level 1080p Samsung and it SUCKED compared to the CRT RPTV I replaced. if that's all you desire, no worries, but newer isn't always better. there's still a big range in quality, and there's a reason the best plasmas cost 2k and up.
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1.How realistic is the possibility of burn in for video games or cable tv? I plan on playing some PS3 and Nintendo Wii U eventually, I usually play for a few hours a week, nothing crazy. As for cable tv I usually only watch an hour or two a night.
burn-in on plasmas today is pretty much on par to burn-in on crt's. there is image retention, where it'll vaguely remain for a couple mins to maybe an hour, but it goes away. I've been using plasma as my sole computer monitor for my HTPC for about 6yrs(5yrs on that cheap one I talked about above, and now I have the f8500) and I have zero burn in issues. gaming, and normal tv use should not even be a second thought. I browse the web for hours at a time(very high contrast, static images) and only get minor image retention that goes away quickly
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2. Should I consider a 1080p LED LCD over a 720p Plasma? I've noticed a lot of people ragging on 720p, but all the 1080p plasmas seem to be out of my price range (~$400)
I really want to advise you to spend more. but if that's absolutely not a possibility, no. don't get an LED. if you are going to avoid plasma, get a CCFL backlit LCD. cheap LED's are the worst TV's on the market, by a long shot. just google 'LED clouding' and 'LED flashlighting' and you'll see what i'm talking about. edgelit LED backlighting is by far the trickiest and most difficult to get right. and because of that, no cheap LED TV's have got it right. you need to spend a lot of money to get decent performance with an LED backlight. plasmas are the better value, so if budget is number one concern, you always get a better bang for your buck with plasma.
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3. Is it true that I absolutely CANNOT lean a plasma tv over? I dont plan too but I am curious.
plasma TV's have glass screens. glass breaks, large pieces of glass break easily. that's all there is to it, nothing more. I brought home my first plasma laying flat in my car, screen up though of course. 6yrs later, no issues. I imagine there must have been a lot that broke during transport in the early years, and salespeople have been conditioned to caution against it to avoid it from happening. for what it's worth, you wouldn't want to lay an LCD tv down on it's screen either if it's a glass screen.
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4. Does anyone have any better reccomendations than the Samsung PN43F4500? I am also considering the 42'' Panasonic plasma for $400 (can't remember the model # off the top of my head)
i'm not at all a fan of Samsung's cheap plasma's. if you can't afford the f8500, I would look at Panasonic for sure. I don't know where the price range is on all of them, but I would definitely recommend a minimum of the s60 or st60 if possible. clearly you are somebody that will use the same tv for a long time if you like it, so spending 600bux now and being happy for the next 10yrs is a better value than spending 400bux and immediately wanting to upgrade to something better. only you can know how picky your are though. I speak from my personal experience. I waited 5yrs of being unhappy with my cheap plasma before I finally had a chance to upgrade and I wanted to make no mistake this time, hence the f8500.
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5. Any other fun stuff I should know about HD or plasma tvs?
plasma tvs are dieing off. Panasonic is abandoning production soon, so it's not a bad time to buy one. but again, do it right, cause you may not have a second chance. OLED is set to replace plasma, but it's gonna be a long time before one approaches 400bux. this was also part of my motivation to go 'all out' get the f8500. I figured 4yrs from now, my options will be an expensive LED that doesn't look good to me anyway, or a SUPER expensive OLED that I probably can't afford.
the other thing coming down the pipe is UHD/4k, and again it's at a point where it's very expensive and probably will be for years to come. this probably won't affect value priced TV's though. I imagine the cheap LCD's will be relatively unchanged for a long time.

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post #8 of 22 Old 10-24-2013, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not expecting anything reference quality for $400 but I have heard this Samsung I'm looking at is pretty good judging from various websites, I check it out in the store briefly and it looked alright. My main issue with the CRT is that the lack of high-def is resulting is really tiny font and an image that feels sort of "shakey" when I play video games. I asked my friends and they said they were getting some strain from the resolution as well, hell I even had my eyes checked to make sure my vision isn't getting bad. 

 

I've noticed that you can't even find an LED for under $600 (not from any brand that I've really hard of) so that was what turned me on more to the idea of a plasma. Like you said it is more of a budget buy, which in my case (broke college  student) is pretty nice. With that said the 8-series Samsung you recommended is WAYYY more my budget, I'm not really looking for the "best" just something that is pleasantly enjoyable and will last me at the minimum 5 years.

 

That's good to know about the screen. I'm an interstate mover during the summer and we always get yelled at not to put the plasma flat  down...I always figured it was something to with how the internals were arranged hahaha.

 

I have been trying to find an S60 to look at but all the 42'' ones I find are sold out so I can't seem to find pricing, I'm open to spending $100 more or so just nothing crazy. Another problem is that my entertainment center won't fit anything that's wider than 40 inches so I'm sort of stuck with 43 inches or below, that and my coach is pretty close to the tv so I don't see a point in having a massive TV.

 

Is Panasonic for sure abandoning it or is that just speculation? I've heard it here and there but didn't really see any links or anything, if so that's a real bummer. Like I said I would spend more if I could but $400 +/- $100 is really my limit at this point due to a combination of limited job prospects and a tidal wave of student debt I see coming on the horizon hahhaha.

 

Thanks for the advice though, it does make me rethink my HDTV purchase...alot of reviews say that this set in particular is a terrific budget buy but it's always nice to get a different viewpoint on it. Either way I have until Nov 1 to figure out if I'm going to get a new TV or just plug the PS3 into my 23'' 1080p computer monitor and call it a day ahaha. 

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post #9 of 22 Old 10-24-2013, 05:20 AM
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fierce- I know the abl is a bit much on budget Samsung e series but abl is an issue on all plasmas..what else don't you like on them ? It takes someone that knows how too tweak a tv too squeeze all the juice out of it.

Its hard too find any glaring flaws on this tv..forgot there is judder when camera does slow side too side movements and fast movements on mine but it doesn't happen too often.

judder,black levels(very slightly),motion performance,and how much the abl dims the screen would be the only issues that might make the Panasonic a choice over Samsung.Maybe something else.

Every tv has issues if you look for them.
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post #10 of 22 Old 10-24-2013, 03:43 PM
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fierce- I know the abl is a bit much on budget Samsung e series but abl is an issue on all plasmas..what else don't you like on them ? It takes someone that knows how too tweak a tv too squeeze all the juice out of it.

Its hard too find any glaring flaws on this tv..forgot there is judder when camera does slow side too side movements and fast movements on mine but it doesn't happen too often.

judder,black levels(very slightly),motion performance,and how much the abl dims the screen would be the only issues that might make the Panasonic a choice over Samsung.Maybe something else.

Every tv has issues if you look for them.

honest answer, bias. my first plasma was a Samsung 5 series, b530 to be exact, and it's been one of the worst TV's I've ever had for picture quality. I bought it based on the fact I knew I wanted deep blacks, and 'plasmas have better blacks than lcds', but in reality, most lcd's I've had(including a couple dynex) have been blacker. ABL is actually something I never knew about until I started reading reviews of the f8500 and how little ABL it had, haha.

I didn't look too closely(never adjusted settings) when I was at the store because I was looking at the st60, vt60, zt60, and then eventually the f8500 too, but the other Samsung plasmas didn't look like they were in the same range as the other Panasonics.

PS, here's a comparison shot of the b530 and the f8500 that replaced it. keep in mind the f8500 isn't quite as black as the high end panny's, and may be actually closer to the s60 in terms of blackest blacks.



slightly overexposed

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post #11 of 22 Old 10-24-2013, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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What would the be the best way to test out ABL in the store? I feel (or hope) that Samsung may have improved their entry level plasmas since you had yours. There is a clear difference between the high and low end tv, I'm hoping that the newer one has improved.

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post #12 of 22 Old 10-25-2013, 01:29 AM
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Not completely sure this is accurate but I've read some e series samsung was 12 footlumens on an all white screen which is the dimmest I've heard of.The motion might be more of an issue.I don't know as I've never played a video game on an HDTV.

Maybe try the panasonic and if you don't like it take it back and get the Sam.
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post #13 of 22 Old 10-25-2013, 08:29 AM
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honest answer, bias. my first plasma was a Samsung 5 series, b530 to be exact, and it's been one of the worst TV's I've ever had for picture quality. I bought it based on the fact I knew I wanted deep blacks, and 'plasmas have better blacks than lcds', but in reality, most lcd's I've had(including a couple dynex) have been blacker. ABL is actually something I never knew about until I started reading reviews of the f8500 and how little ABL it had, haha.

I didn't look too closely(never adjusted settings) when I was at the store because I was looking at the st60, vt60, zt60, and then eventually the f8500 too, but the other Samsung plasmas didn't look like they were in the same range as the other Panasonics.

PS, here's a comparison shot of the b530 and the f8500 that replaced it. keep in mind the f8500 isn't quite as black as the high end panny's, and may be actually closer to the s60 in terms of blackest blacks.



slightly overexposed

As an owner of a F5300, I can attest that Samsung has made leaps and bounds with it's entry level plamas. I've seen some of these in the past years, and they were scary bad. The black level on the 51F5300 is outstanding for the price (.004fl I measured, equal of my 2012 Panasonic GT50), and it includes full calibration controls (10pt WB, Full CMS) so I was able to dial in the color perfectly.

As for the F4500, I'd persoally never buy a 720p set, but it has had some very favorable reviews. I believe Wirecutter.com had it listed as their best TV under $500 bucks.
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post #14 of 22 Old 10-25-2013, 10:40 AM
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As an owner of a F5300, I can attest that Samsung has made leaps and bounds with it's entry level plamas. I've seen some of these in the past years, and they were scary bad. The black level on the 51F5300 is outstanding for the price (.004fl I measured, equal of my 2012 Panasonic GT50), and it includes full calibration controls (10pt WB, Full CMS) so I was able to dial in the color perfectly.

As for the F4500, I'd persoally never buy a 720p set, but it has had some very favorable reviews. I believe Wirecutter.com had it listed as their best TV under $500 bucks.

good to hear. I had completely written Samsung off as an option based on previous years. I guess that says something though too, when I go into a store looking at a vt/zt and end up with the f8500 that I was adamantly against when first recommended.

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post #15 of 22 Old 10-27-2013, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright guys, so I spotted an F5350 in store for $550, so it's the 1080p/51" version of this. Do you guys think I should go for it? I figure for $150 it would last me longer. What do you guys think?

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Alright guys, so I spotted an F5350 in store for $550, so it's the 1080p/51" version of this. Do you guys think I should go for it? I figure for $150 it would last me longer. What do you guys think?

$550 is pretty cheap, I'd go for it. 720p is about to be increasingly more outdated when the next gen systems come out.
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post #17 of 22 Old 10-27-2013, 05:35 PM
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I would definitely say that's a worthwhile upgrade for an extra $150

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post #18 of 22 Old 10-29-2013, 03:25 PM
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Hello everyone,

 

Over the past few weeks I've begun to realize that my SD CRT TV is no longer cutting it, while it's still working perfectly fine it is causing me a lot of eye strain when it comes to HD applications such as PS3. I figure that 10 years is a good run and that it is time to start looking for an HDTV. Initially I tried to avoid plasma because of the many horror stories I head of burn in, and because of what I assume would be a higher cost. However after some research I opened up to the idea of a plasma tv, so with that said my choice is narrowed down to either an LED  TV or a plasma, with me heavily leaning towards a Samsung PN43F4500 do to its' price (I'm trying to stay in the $400 range). However I have some questions about plasma tvs, and HD tvs in general that hopefully some kind souls can answer:

 

1.How realistic is the possibility of burn in for video games or cable tv? I plan on playing some PS3 and Nintendo Wii U eventually, I usually play for a few hours a week, nothing crazy. As for cable tv I usually only watch an hour or two a night.

 

2. Should I consider a 1080p LED LCD over a 720p Plasma? I've noticed a lot of people ragging on 720p, but all the 1080p plasmas seem to be out of my price range (~$400)

 

3. Is it true that I absolutely CANNOT lean a plasma tv over? I dont plan too but I am curious.

 

4. Does anyone have any better reccomendations than the Samsung PN43F4500? I am also considering the 42'' Panasonic plasma for $400 (can't remember the model # off the top of my head)

 

5. Any other fun stuff I should know about HD or plasma tvs?

 

 

Thanks everyone, sorry if my spelling is off...it's been a long day haha

1) Not very high probability. I've had a plasma for years, and played many marathon nights of xbox, and never had any IR. However after every gaming session I would find a full-screen show like something on HGTV, and leave it on for 20 mins or so. At most what you will see is a slight ghost image, but that is normal and goes away simply by watching other content. Severe burn in is a thing of the past. Unless like others have said above, you leave a bright white logo on for hours and hours and days on end.

 

2) My wife and I had a 50" 720 for a good few years, and just recently finally got a 1080. I can tell you that 1080 is awesome, but the 720 to my eyes always still looked top notch. Especially if you're not getting that big of a screen, 720 is fine.

 

3) No, this is false. When we moved once I was paranoid about tipping it, then I researched it. You can completely lay it on its side. The concern is that the screens are delicate, so they could break if you lay it down and something heavy is on top of it, that's where that rumour came from. We just got a new Samsung, and I layed it flat on the carpet to install the base, and it's perfectly fine.

 

4) N/A (not familiar enough with models to recommend)

 

5) Prepare to be blown away. I was playing Mass Effect on a CRT. When we got our plasma, it blew my mind how clear it all was. It'll amaze you. And be prepared to forever dig into settings and just mess with them. My wife gets annoyed, in the middle of the movie I'll say hmm those skin tones look off, and I'll pop up the big white menu.

 

Happy viewing!

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post #19 of 22 Old 10-30-2013, 11:20 PM
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Get the f5350 for $550 that is a great deal and forget the 720p set. Regardless of any input that TV will have to scale everything to its odd native 1024x768 resolution (it has wider pixels which makes the 4:3 aspect ratio resolution look 16:9).

Definitely get it you will not be disappointed and led/lcd sets costing 3x-4x more still has uniformity/light bleed issues so you be happy.

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post #20 of 22 Old 10-31-2013, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright guys, just an update: Turned out the TV is actually $600 (they put the 720p price under the 1080p tv -__- ). I decided I'm going to shop around and try to find this TV (F5350/F5000) for less online, and if not I'll just buy it in store. I figure the 1080p will future proof it a bit and will overall make me happier with the purchase. If anyone has any other TVs to reccomend for $600 or less let me know. Thanks for the help everyone, I really appreciate it! 

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post #21 of 22 Old 10-31-2013, 02:29 AM
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The F5350 is a warehouse version of F5300 which is all black instead of dark brown and it has an ultra clear panel (which may not do anything on reflections but maybe add a bit in PQ who knows).

Also online wise you may only find the F5300 but I see better deals on the F5350 then the F5300. Can't get any better than that for $600 unless you find a low use store display.

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post #22 of 22 Old 10-31-2013, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by stefus View Post

Alright guys, just an update: Turned out the TV is actually $600 (they put the 720p price under the 1080p tv -__- ). I decided I'm going to shop around and try to find this TV (F5350/F5000) for less online, and if not I'll just buy it in store. I figure the 1080p will future proof it a bit and will overall make me happier with the purchase. If anyone has any other TVs to reccomend for $600 or less let me know. Thanks for the help everyone, I really appreciate it! 

it's usually store policy(i've heard some ppl claim it was law, but i don't think that's true?) that they must honour any posted price. if the tag didn't have a model number on it, and was posted on the 1080p tv, they should have sold one to you at that price.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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