How noticeable is long-term IR in practice? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 10-25-2013, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I know modern plasmas are prone to IR (perhaps not permanent burn in?), but how noticeable is it in typical TV viewing. Obviously if the TV pans to a pure white screen you might see it, but will you see IR say, watching a movie, or while playing a game? Furthermore, if it is visible, how irritating is it (I recognize this is subjective, but I'm trying to determine if plasma is worth the risk)?

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post #2 of 13 Old 10-27-2013, 04:36 PM
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You seem to "know" something that escapes the rest of the world.

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post #3 of 13 Old 10-27-2013, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Are modern plasmas not prone to IR? I feel like I've seen a lot of posts about ST60's or S60's having some form of IR. Perhaps I'm wrong. No need to be a smart ass.

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post #4 of 13 Old 10-27-2013, 08:33 PM
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The superior PQ is worth any "risk" you may have.

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post #5 of 13 Old 10-27-2013, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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That's what I'm kind of juggling with. I recognize plasma will have better picture quality, but I'd use my TV for Netflix (movies and tv) and games in that order. My fear is that I'd effectively have some form of IR that be constantly visible no matter what I'd do, whether TV or games it'd always be present. That was sorta the purpose of my post; to see how obvious IR typically is when watching TV or playing games. Obviously if you sit there and put up a totally white screen  and hunt for it, you can probably find it; but with typical use...

 

For what it's worth, this TV would be a 'living room' TV; I live in an apartment and a windowless room is not an option (I could close the blinds, but that's about it).

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post #6 of 13 Old 10-27-2013, 09:46 PM
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I've owned two plasmas in the last 8 years (both are still working great), and the first time I ever noticed IR was a few weeks ago when I happened to be standing very close to the TV doing something else. There was a logo faintly visible in the corner. I did a screen wipe (in all these years I have never done a screen wipe) and saw all kinds of crap that I didn't know was there. It mostly cleared up, although that particular logo is still ever so faintly visible on a white screen or when doing a wipe. I have tried, intentionally, to spot it during normal viewing and I can't.

To be fair, I had the brightness and contrast cranked almost all the way up. I turned them down to reasonable levels and IR seems greatly reduced.

Does it worry me now that I've noticed it? Yeah, a bit. And now I do find myself wondering if the show I'm watching is going to cause a problem. It hasn't changed my habits though. I watched sports today (with lots of static content) and played several hours of video games (with more static content). I haven't noticed anything.

Coincidentally, this all happened when I was shopping for a new TV. I looked closely at LCD, and I think the quality is a lot closer than some people would like to believe in real world conditions (i.e. not a completely darkened room with a perfectly calibrated set). In the end, the plasma won again though, and IR didn't stop me from ordering another Panasonic that will arrive this week.
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post #7 of 13 Old 10-27-2013, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you, that was very informative.

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post #8 of 13 Old 10-27-2013, 10:09 PM
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I should clarify that when I say LCD quality is very good, I'm talking about the best LCDs - e.g. the Samsung f8000 and Sony w900a. The low and mid range LCDs are much worse than a comparably priced plasma. Uneven lighting, washed out colors, etc.
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post #9 of 13 Old 10-29-2013, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought I'd read somewhere that the transition to 3D televisions introduced additional IR, where before it had otherwise been approaching a solved problem (perhaps I'm wrong, but I feel like I've seen a lot of folks from the 06-08 era that have no burnin/IR so to speak). Additionally it's somewhat confusing to me to hear that people have some noticeable form of IR or burnin ,which I thought was due to uneven aging of the phosphors, when these televisions have lifetimes of 100,000 hours. 

 

Lastly (and I recognize this is a stretch), but is there anyone that has compared the vizio M series televisions to the ST60 in any appreciable way?  Those are the two I'm flipping between (largely). I'm trying to decide if the piece of mind, w.r.t. to IR, is worth the degradation in picture quality. Unfortunately I've never seen the ST60 in it's 'native element' so to speak. On the show room floor it looks good at best, and given that it'd be a 'living room' TV I'm hesitant. 

 

 

Many thanks!

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post #10 of 13 Old 10-30-2013, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb2948 View Post

I know modern plasmas are prone to IR (perhaps not permanent burn in?), but how noticeable is it in typical TV viewing. Obviously if the TV pans to a pure white screen you might see it, but will you see IR say, watching a movie, or while playing a game? Furthermore, if it is visible, how irritating is it (I recognize this is subjective, but I'm trying to determine if plasma is worth the risk)?

couple misconceptions. IR is never 'long term'. the definition of ir is basically that it goes away quickly with normal use. from more than 6feet back it's basically impossible to see with normal content.

let me put it this way, if you can't see the terrible blacks, motion blur, or horrendous backlight uniformity on an lcd, there's no chance you'll notice IR without looking for it specifically tongue.gif

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post #11 of 13 Old 10-30-2013, 09:30 AM
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All plasma displays & OLEDs are prone to IR, some more some less. The persistence of IR depends on the display's settings and the duration of the viewing habits that caused it. How noticeable IR is will depend on the content you are watching and your sensitivity to this issue.

Seven problems with current OLED televisions
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post #12 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 10:52 AM
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I have a 2012 model GT50. It does have lots of short term IR issues (the type that go away w/in 5 minutes, not super noticeable) - the VIERA logo at boot, sports, channel logos in the lower right. Think of watching HGTV every night for a few hours, or a Bond marathon on a single tv channel... but this goes away. I haven't had many IR issues with hockey or football.

I used to watch a lot of CNBC and I do have a tiny bit of stubborn IR from where the white ticker bar displays at the bottom of the screen, but it's only noticeable on an all white screen. It wasn't even very much, and I haven't watched it in over a year, but it is there.

I would not use this TV for gaming or watching a lot of cable news. For a dark theater room or any light-controlled room it's perfect, but for daytime viewing the picture tends to wash out in my living room. Then again, your choices for a matte screen LED are pretty limited as well. Maybe the Samsung F8500 would be the best plasma choice for you.
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post #13 of 13 Old 10-31-2013, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Say you're watching a blu-ray...what does the stretch option look like (in the attempt to minimize IR). As in how distorted does it look? I used the equivalent option back in the DVD days, but I remember it looking noticeably off. Just curious if things have changed in the past few years.

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