Sold my Kuro 151FD and just got a Panasonic 65VT60 from BB for $2499 as a replacement, but - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 49 Old 11-04-2013, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Haven't posted here in an age (been too long smile.gif ), after putting my Kuro 151FD up for sale (over 1yr now) boom all of a sudden a local buyer pops out of the wood work and beloved, my precious ! has gone. Sitting there with $2000 in hand I start to sweat... OMG what am I going to do now eek.gif . Wake up dummy it TV shopping time biggrin.gif . Anyway I had been keeping my eye on the Panasonics and how close a modern smart 3D TV was getting to the famed Kuro. Not wanting to start a war lets just say they are close enough to warrant the upgrade while my old set was still a desirable item with a great resell value. So waltzed off to my local favorite BB , found my old Magnolia rep still there (the one that usually hooks me up rolleyes.gif to a great deal). So I compared 65ZT60 $3500 (on sale price locked) and the 65VT60 (on sale for $2699) Wow almost a $1000 difference. Anyway my rep offered the VT60 for $2499 biggrin.gif which for me was a sweet price (out of pocket by only $500 for a brand new 5" bigger 3D Smart TV) smile.gifcool.gifsmile.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif life is good, probably the quickest cheapest turn around possible. There on a table for $499 is an open box Pioneer SC-71 (my Yamaha RX-V3800 doesn't do 3D ) , I snatch that bad boy up without even realizing what it was other than a grands worth of modern 3d Pioneer receiver for half price (OMG that receiver is so far sweet, blows the 3800 into a top hat). So back in business again for relatively few $$$, but wait what about 4K eek.gif what about an even bigger screen size Ahhhh could go crazy like a kid in a candy store. After resolving these issues in my head the only one that stuck was the Samsung 64F8500 (albeit $900 more, apparently no discount on this model) for almost as good blacks but way more POP... So here I am on the crux of a dilemma. POP, BLACKS and $$$ . So far my rational is although the F8500 is brighter the VT60 is bright enough and can deliver slightly better blacks and great 3D when setup right, and coupled with the $900 price difference I believe the VT60 is the beat choice for me. What do you all think, as although the deal is done the 30day ink (return time) is still wet biggrin.gif
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post #2 of 49 Old 11-04-2013, 12:45 PM
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I think you should use a few more of these:eek:
I know every time I buy something I post the details and ask everyone on AVS what they think along with a bunch of smiley faces. Read the two threads and the reviews on the sets in question and then decide for yourself. I don't understand anyone who buys something and then posts seeking validation for their purchase. I buy what I like and what works best in my environment based on the homework I have done which includes reading forums like this one and reviews. Hope you enjoy your new A/V items, all that counts is that you are cool.gif
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post #3 of 49 Old 11-04-2013, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Really come on? there so close it's not easy to feel 100% with your own decision. Would be nice to buy both and futz with them side by side and get the wife and kids (20 & 22) involved.

I read everything more than once, but having good opinions is what this site is all about. Real time collaboration from others way more knowledgeable than myself is priceless. Plus how else would we start a thread war ? eek.gifeek.gif

PS how about your opinion on which set you would buy. wink.gif
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post #4 of 49 Old 11-04-2013, 03:26 PM
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Congratulations on setting the 151FD you were looking to sell. Wish I had the extra cash on hand.
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post #5 of 49 Old 11-04-2013, 03:54 PM
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"What do you all think, as although the deal is done the 30day ink (return time) is still wet biggrin.gif"

I would have kept the 151
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post #6 of 49 Old 11-06-2013, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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The Panasonic so far is very pleasing giving a rich deep black picture with enough pop to make Blu-ray movies like Avatar, Hobbit, Dark Night look like 3d (I followed D-Nice settings and can't tell if the picture is lacking compared to the 151.) no one in the family has said that the picture is not as good as the old 151, plus I have all the bells and whistles it has as a Smart 3D TV (3D Avatar was a delight to watch). Can't wait to have it ISF'ed.
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post #7 of 49 Old 11-06-2013, 12:15 PM
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as a f8500 owner(I actually bought it because it was about 300 CHEAPER than the vt60 here, strange) I will say do not buy the tv because it's brighter. if you appreciate any of the other differences(I find it 'sharper', and quieter as well) maybe, but really the tv is way too bright. I find it most comfortable watching with the cell light around 50-60%, which i'm sure is well within the capability of the vt60(maybe at 90%?)

the only reason I can see the f8500's brightness being worth the extra money is if it has to pull double duty as a bright room daytime tv and night time movie machine.

i'm making some assumptions based on you having a kuro, so maybe i'm wrong, but I feel like you'd appreciate the better blacks in the dark more than the ability to watch in a bright sunlit room. I think if the price were even, or the f8500 were cheaper, it'd be a tougher question. but paying more for the f8500 seems odd to me.

at the end of the day, i'm completely happy with the f8500. it's probably the most versatile plasma ever made, having 'near reference' picture quality in a dark room, and still being great in a bright room. but for an all out reference quality movie watching display, i'd probably have some regrets of not at least trying the vt or zt at home first. once the f8500's too bright for comfort display is calibrated, there's really not much of an advantage in terms of brightness anyway.
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post #8 of 49 Old 11-06-2013, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Great response, my ISF guy said the same thing, even said a well calibrated VT gives great 3D also. He basically said "I'd choose the VT60. The F8500 is less good with blacks but better with bright whites. Since I think the bright whites of the VT60 are adequate already, I'd choose improved blacks.
The Home Theater and THX modes are pretty good out of the box, though they have their flaws."
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post #9 of 49 Old 11-06-2013, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Techaholic View Post

Great response, my ISF guy said the same thing, even said a well calibrated VT gives great 3D also. He basically said "I'd choose the VT60. The F8500 is less good with blacks but better with bright whites. Since I think the bright whites of the VT60 are adequate already, I'd choose improved blacks.
The Home Theater and THX modes are pretty good out of the box, though they have their flaws."

that's exactly it. unless you have the vt60 cranked to the max and still think it looks dim, there won't be a perceivable advantage to the f8500. it's almost like the plasma vs led debate. sure led's are much brighter, but they are TOO bright for a dark room. once calibrated, they should be the same as the plasma, so the important difference becomes how black is black. the f8500 is pretty close, in all but the darkest rooms it's black. but I haven't read a single credible measurement that said the f8500 was blacker than the vt or zt.

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post #10 of 49 Old 11-07-2013, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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So with the $1000 difference I cant justify the F8500 although the brighter 3D and four glasses would be nice.
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post #11 of 49 Old 11-08-2013, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I think I'm going over to the Dark side (I mean bright side) , having spent 40 mins at best buy with the two TV's side by side, I'm beginning to think the emphasis on the blacks doesn't do justice to how pop bright the F8500 can be with fantastic blacks (even if they are not V60 standard) , best of both worlds with great 3D to boot. I must be more muggle than wizard as I find I like brighter more than detailed dark stuff smile.gif
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post #12 of 49 Old 11-08-2013, 11:08 PM
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I've owned the VT60 for about 2 months, and I can say as for my preference, that it is a very dim tv, and lacks any real pop.. I had it mounted near my GT50 and the GT50 had
much more pop than did the VT60.. Not to mention that the screen on the vt60 is EXTREMELY reflective.. Go with the f8500..

Panasonic GT50 50"
Panasonic GT50 55"
Pansaonic VT50 55" (Sold)
Pansaonic VT60 60" (Sold)
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post #13 of 49 Old 11-09-2013, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I did and I'm not regretting it. Although the picture was superb on the VT60, plasma's lack of pop are its Achilles heel, just look at the BB display and you can pick out all the plasma's from a mile away (they're gray), well this Samsung pop's like the best of em and still delivers that great plasma picture. If this had been around earlier then maybe plasma would not be fading away.
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post #14 of 49 Old 11-09-2013, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm glad your happy, but even though a lot don't use the 3D, 3D avatar was sooo good , primarily because of the brightness that this TV can pump out, and I don't think floating blacks at night are an issue as you would select a night adjusted cal.
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post #15 of 49 Old 11-09-2013, 04:53 PM
 
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I'm pretty confident they'd still be present, just less noticeable? Avatar's visual 3D effects can't overcome the abomination of a movie that it is. However, Life of Pi and Hugo are petty phenomenal in and of themselves (while being more tolerable all-around films), and I wouldn't mind a little more brightness but don't find it that lacking in a cinematic environment. with minimal to no lighting.
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post #16 of 49 Old 11-09-2013, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree, but during the day my TV is surrounded by windows and too much light. As for Avatar being an abomination I seen it at least 50+ times. That movies set new standards regardless of how strong the story line is, and I cant wait for Avatar2 2014 smile.gif
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post #17 of 49 Old 11-10-2013, 01:23 PM
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I really don't think I've ever noticed floating blacks on the f8500. I don't know if i'm not sensitive to it, or some ppl are making a big deal out of small numbers, or what the case really is. I THOUGHT I saw it with the original FW watching a 4:3 star trek movie, but after maybe the 2nd updated fw it's never been seen again. maybe it's only visible under conditions I don't view? I don't know.

I thought the 3D on the f8500 was pretty terrible. up there with unwatchable. the crosstalk on mine is disgusting and I don't plan to ever watch anything in 3d on it again.

avatar was a good movie, I remember loving it as a kid when it was called fern gully...

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post #18 of 49 Old 11-12-2013, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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So mainly during dark scenes, the panel exhibits a flash at the bottom part of the screen, I've experienced it from my HTPC both through the receiver and connected directly to the TV, I have also seen it while playing blue-ray on my PS3. Not sure if this is the dreaded floating black issue or maybe this F8500 has a problem, has anyone else seen this behavior?
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post #19 of 49 Old 11-12-2013, 11:10 AM
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not something I've ever noticed

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post #20 of 49 Old 11-12-2013, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Fixed it, turned off the "motion judder canceler" as per Chad instruction and the flashing stopped smile.gifsmile.gif
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post #21 of 49 Old 11-15-2013, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Long story short, took back my first F8500 due to the ghost image from the top of the screen flashing in the bottom half , Samsung quality control is not the best. So far the new set has shown no issues, and if possible looks blacker out of the box.
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post #22 of 49 Old 02-01-2014, 09:56 AM
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I am a proud owner of a KURO 151FD, and like you, I am about to part with mine for $2400 this weekend.

I will then be upgrading to a 4K TV.

I have my eye on either the Panasonic Model: TC-L65WT600 at $4,500 or the SONY XBR 65X900A at $4,999.

Both are 65 Inch 4K TVs.

I am leaning toward the Panasonic because it has the HDMI 2.0 interface.
Any preferences out there on what you would choose?

For everybody out there, would you part with your KURO at this point in time while it still has a good resale value,
or keep it forever.

I will have to fork at least 2.5K more to go to a TV that I want.

Any comments will be appreciated.smile.gif
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post #23 of 49 Old 02-01-2014, 11:08 AM
 
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Sounds like a bad idea...4K TVs won't do much to reduce the resale value of a Kuro, IMO (not until a 4K OLED arrives anyhow).
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post #24 of 49 Old 02-02-2014, 12:34 PM
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I ha
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Originally Posted by Techaholic View Post

Haven't posted here in an age (been too long smile.gif ), after putting my Kuro 151FD up for sale (over 1yr now) boom all of a sudden a local buyer pops out of the wood work and beloved, my precious ! has gone. Sitting there with $2000 in hand I start to sweat... OMG what am I going to do now eek.gif . Wake up dummy it TV shopping time biggrin.gif . Anyway I had been keeping my eye on the Panasonics and how close a modern smart 3D TV was getting to the famed Kuro. Not wanting to start a war lets just say they are close enough to warrant the upgrade while my old set was still a desirable item with a great resell value. So waltzed off to my local favorite BB , found my old Magnolia rep still there (the one that usually hooks me up rolleyes.gif to a great deal). So I compared 65ZT60 $3500 (on sale price locked) and the 65VT60 (on sale for $2699) Wow almost a $1000 difference. Anyway my rep offered the VT60 for $2499 biggrin.gif which for me was a sweet price (out of pocket by only $500 for a brand new 5" bigger 3D Smart TV) smile.gifcool.gifsmile.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif life is good, probably the quickest cheapest turn around possible. There on a table for $499 is an open box Pioneer SC-71 (my Yamaha RX-V3800 doesn't do 3D ) , I snatch that bad boy up without even realizing what it was other than a grands worth of modern 3d Pioneer receiver for half price (OMG that receiver is so far sweet, blows the 3800 into a top hat). So back in business again for relatively few $$$, but wait what about 4K eek.gif what about an even bigger screen size Ahhhh could go crazy like a kid in a candy store. After resolving these issues in my head the only one that stuck was the Samsung 64F8500 (albeit $900 more, apparently no discount on this model) for almost as good blacks but way more POP... So here I am on the crux of a dilemma. POP, BLACKS and $$$ . So far my rational is although the F8500 is brighter the VT60 is bright enough and can deliver slightly better blacks and great 3D when setup right, and coupled with the $900 price difference I believe the VT60 is the beat choice for me. What do you all think, as although the deal is done the 30day ink (return time) is still wet biggrin.gif
i have sold my krp 500 and 600 after that its been a hell in my house
I had several tvs samsung 8500 plasma and panasonic st60
The samsung was really terrible ( sorry cant help it ) its synthetic.
The St 60 is not near the Kro
Tommorow il get the 65vt 60 but i am afraid it wil still not be in the kuro leage.
I dont know what happened to my brian selling the Kuros.
I wanted Oled ( LG looks very good but i havent lived with it because if you live with it you see all the bad things )
I slept very bad
Lets see what the vt will bring
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Your unhappiness will continue, I'm afraid. The 500M is a black level monster, which no plasma can and likely never will match must less beat. The ZT (and its higher measured contrast ratio) with its single sheet of glass design would be a better match for your 600M at least.
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post #26 of 49 Old 02-02-2014, 12:46 PM
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I know but i need a tv
The vt has not much light output
Actually i am here to warn people
DO NOT SEL YOUR GEN 9 OR 9.5 KURO.
YOU WIL BE VERY DISSAPOINTED.
IF NOT THAN UOU ARE A LUCKY PERSON WHO CANNOT SEE WHAT HE HAD.
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I'm going to disagree there...the differences between the 9G (111FD) that I sold last summer and the ZT60 (65") were minuscule enough to make the size upgrade more than worth it.
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post #28 of 49 Old 02-02-2014, 12:50 PM
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The 500 i had was a gen 9.5
I
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Your unhappiness will continue, I'm afraid. The 500M is a black level monster, which no plasma can and likely never will match must less beat. The ZT (and its higher measured contrast ratio) with its single sheet of glass design would be a better match for your 600M at least.
t was in my bedroom
In my living i had the krp 600
I wanted to go bigger.
Lets see if i can live with the VT60 until oled is affordable.
I dont want to go into an argument but the 8500 is really a terrible telivision
Everything is unnatural about it and it has floating blacks and brightness pops and skintones are bad
I was a fotographer so i know a little bit about skin tones
Its a cold harsh picture
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Well, I'm not a fan of the F8500, but calibration can help with those color problems for the most part. I can't argue about the floating blacks. wink.gif I would recommend the ZT60 at 65" for your living room...used or demo is probably the easiest to find now. They have been shown to be capable of calibration of up to 52 ftL. The VT60 can go a little brighter thanks to not having a more aggressive filter, so that brightness should also satisfy you (but does not handle reflections as well nor does it maintain its contrast ratio in lit rooms as well). Now the ABL *might* bother you since it's more severe on the Vieras than the Kuros.
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post #30 of 49 Old 02-02-2014, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Well, I'm not a fan of the F8500, but calibration can help with those color problems for the most part. I can't argue about the floating blacks. wink.gif I would recommend the ZT60 at 65" for your living room...used or demo is probably the easiest to find now. They have been shown to be capable of calibration of up to 52 ftL. The VT60 can go a little brighter thanks to not having a more aggressive filter, so that brightness should also satisfy you (but does not handle reflections as well nor does it maintain its contrast ratio in lit rooms as well). Now the ABL *might* bother you since it's more severe on the Vieras than the Kuros.
I only watch tv in complete darkness
I can make a list from here ( thats the netherlands ) to Tokyo about what i do not like about the Samsung.
I had to sell it because it irritated me
Forgif me please but it is really a terrible television
These people know nothing about natural picture.
The st60 was also harsh
I had a loaner a 42 st30 beautiful picture
The blacks might be terrible but it was a pleasure to look at
Its not all about the blacks
Shadow detail could have been better on the Kuro but it gives a pleasant picture even on tv broadcast
The samsung gave me a nightmare
The st 60 i coudnt live with also but it was much much better than the samsungs hard and noisy and cold picture
Hope the vt will give a sweeter picture withouth being dull the zt 65 inch is not for sale in europe
Is there a way to tame the ABL?
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