Decision: Keep ST60 or return for LED? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 11-07-2013, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I have had various LED/LCD tv's over the years, and every single one of them has always given me problems with clouding, flashlighting and uniformity issues. So when I was getting ready to buy a new tv, I decided to try plasma since I heard all of the rave reviews, and it seemed like it would finally meet my picture quality standards.

I got a ST60 last week, and so far it has blown me away. I didn't run any slides, and just plugged in D'Nice's setting right away and have been watching full screen content with no logos. The picture quality is exactly what I wanted, and what I pictured in my head. It looks so good, that it feels like I can grab whatever is on the screen.

One bonus is the excellent viewing angles. The tv is in the bedroom, and the way my bed sits has me watching tv at an angle a lot of times. With LED's i would get a degrading of the picture, but with the ST60, the picture quality stays the same, as if I was in front of the tv.

However, I am constantly worried about image retention. I do my best to be cautious. I watch wide screen blu rays stretched to fill the screen, I change channels a lot for regular tv, and I watch a lot of netflix stuff that is full screen with no logos.

I am a big gamer and I am terrified of playing any type of video game on this thing for a long time. Not only do i play current generation games, but I use a lot of emulators to play old school retro games where static health bars and point bars were common.

I have already fallen asleep watching netflix, and when I woke up the "play next episode" screen had been up for a while. It scared the crap out of me, but luckily, no image retention. I always make sure to run the screen wipe for 10-15 minutes before turning off the tv for the night.

I am just afraid that one day I will fall asleep, or play a game for too long, and there will be image retention, and it won't go away for a long time. Then every time I watch tv it would be all I look at. With the PS4 coming next week, I am going to be doing some very very long gaming sessions the entire weekend next week.

I still have 3 weeks left in the return window. I have been wondering if this tv is worth it if I am constantly in fear of what I watch, and it dictates what I watch and for how long.

The picture quality is just so amazing, It does almost everything better, the viewing angles, motion handling in games is just insane.

Is it worth spending more money to downgrade my picture quality, and deal with uniformity issues just to have the peace of mind that I won't get image retention? So I can play my first person shooters, or have a marathon trying to beat all of the mega man games without worrying that the health bar is going to be stuck on my screen?
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post #2 of 11 Old 11-07-2013, 08:13 PM
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You're just worrying too much about it, it's natural for the first like few weeks to be ultra paranoid.

My 2010 Samsung 680 series Plasma the first month I had to be the TV Nazi.. going by and turning down the brightness when others watched stuff too bright for my taste. Left a menu up for a 5-10 minutes? Gulags!

But after the initial paranoia went away, I stopped caring so much and I honestly think that as long as you keep pixel orbiter on (Pixel shift on Samsung, I have it set to do 4 pixels every minute, most it can do) you're going to be fine. It's a living room family TV so it's had all kinds of abuse.. menus kept on it for hours, vivid mode for hours on end sometimes, ayed games on marathons, kept ESPN on, etc..

None of the IR has lasted for more than an hour or two and it's never noticeable in normal content. The only time I really noticed it is on fully black content/bars after a few hours of doing something (usually a game, and then on the PS3's solid black menus). The TV is 3 years old, give or take a day or two.

Also, it should be noted that image retention is just temporary. It's harmless and a slightly annoying aspect of Plasmas that you catch occasionally . Burn in is permanent version and with the protections and maturation in Plasma technology I think that it's largely nothing to worry about.
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post #3 of 11 Old 11-07-2013, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich2k4 View Post

I have had various LED/LCD tv's over the years, and every single one of them has always given me problems with clouding, flashlighting and uniformity issues. So when I was getting ready to buy a new tv, I decided to try plasma since I heard all of the rave reviews, and it seemed like it would finally meet my picture quality standards.

I got a ST60 last week, and so far it has blown me away. I didn't run any slides, and just plugged in D'Nice's setting right away and have been watching full screen content with no logos. The picture quality is exactly what I wanted, and what I pictured in my head. It looks so good, that it feels like I can grab whatever is on the screen.

One bonus is the excellent viewing angles. The tv is in the bedroom, and the way my bed sits has me watching tv at an angle a lot of times. With LED's i would get a degrading of the picture, but with the ST60, the picture quality stays the same, as if I was in front of the tv.

However, I am constantly worried about image retention. I do my best to be cautious. I watch wide screen blu rays stretched to fill the screen, I change channels a lot for regular tv, and I watch a lot of netflix stuff that is full screen with no logos.

I am a big gamer and I am terrified of playing any type of video game on this thing for a long time. Not only do i play current generation games, but I use a lot of emulators to play old school retro games where static health bars and point bars were common.

I have already fallen asleep watching netflix, and when I woke up the "play next episode" screen had been up for a while. It scared the crap out of me, but luckily, no image retention. I always make sure to run the screen wipe for 10-15 minutes before turning off the tv for the night.

I am just afraid that one day I will fall asleep, or play a game for too long, and there will be image retention, and it won't go away for a long time. Then every time I watch tv it would be all I look at. With the PS4 coming next week, I am going to be doing some very very long gaming sessions the entire weekend next week.

I still have 3 weeks left in the return window. I have been wondering if this tv is worth it if I am constantly in fear of what I watch, and it dictates what I watch and for how long.

The picture quality is just so amazing, It does almost everything better, the viewing angles, motion handling in games is just insane.

Is it worth spending more money to downgrade my picture quality, and deal with uniformity issues just to have the peace of mind that I won't get image retention? So I can play my first person shooters, or have a marathon trying to beat all of the mega man games without worrying that the health bar is going to be stuck on my screen?



You sound like a young guy that loves his video games, from the sounds of it, you seem like you would have long 8 hr sessions and play a lot of old school games. Although I don't have an ST60 I have a GT50, I game for hours and I'm fine, no IR but not excessively how you would play. A 55-60" is overkill for a bedroom I would get a 50" LCD and game on that in the bedroom and place the best in the living room. No brainier. That way you never need to worry about IR only crappier picture but that's what the ST60 is for in the living room.

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post #4 of 11 Old 11-07-2013, 08:32 PM
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agree with above. you are being overly cautious. I have been using plasmas as my main computer monitor(hooked up to my htpc) for over 5yrs and do not have any problems. gaming and watching widescreen movies will be completely fine. the key is to vary the use. you can watch 2 or 3 letterbox movies in a row and you'll get some IR, but it'll go away in minutes of any full screen use. you really only run into problems if you constantly use it the same way. ie, watch CNN for 3hrs a day, every day, and nothing else. watch 90% 4:3 content, or only watch widescreen movies. the truth is, you really need to abuse the set to get permanent burn-in these days. some ppl just don't realize that doing the same thing just a few minutes a day can be 'abusive', but playing 4hrs of video games a day is totally fine as long as you also watch an hour or two of tv, or a full screen movie, or...

a good rule of thumb for those gaming/movie marathons is to flip the tv over to 'normal' content when you go to the bathroom. 2mins of full screen content every 5-6hrs should wash away most IR. and when you're done, if you want to be really cautious run the break in slides or screen wipe for an hour(obviously set the sleep timer and do this when you won't be using it).

look at it this way. you can keep the st60 and MAYBE some time from now there's a hint of burn-in that is barely noticeable if you look for it, or you can return it and get an LED and there's FOR SURE going to be backlight issues that you will see anytime you watch in the dark.
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post #5 of 11 Old 11-08-2013, 09:17 PM
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Since you are worried and you have time, treat it the way you want to. If anything develops that you cannot handle, erase, fix then return it.
You could also pick up the Disney WOW blu-ray as a bit of insurance since they say the pixel flipper works. wink.gif

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post #6 of 11 Old 11-08-2013, 11:21 PM
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Buy a cheap led for gaming for ease of mind, if you cant afford do it sometime in the near future. If i need excessive playing i`ll do it on my bedroom tv which is a lcd.
The quality on ST60 is too good to be returned just for games.
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post #7 of 11 Old 11-09-2013, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich2k4 View Post

...
I am just afraid that one day I will fall asleep, or play a game for too long, and there will be image retention, and it won't go away for a long time. Then every time I watch tv it would be all I look at. With the PS4 coming next week, I am going to be doing some very very long gaming sessions the entire weekend next week.
...

As far as falling asleep, the xbox 360 has a feature that dims the screen if there is no activity for a while (10 minutes?). I would be surprised if PS3 and PS4 don't have some similar screen saver feature. Maybe check the setup menus and make sure it is on?

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post #8 of 11 Old 11-09-2013, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sooke View Post

As far as falling asleep, the xbox 360 has a feature that dims the screen if there is no activity for a while (10 minutes?). I would be surprised if PS3 and PS4 don't have some similar screen saver feature. Maybe check the setup menus and make sure it is on?

And the Panasonic TVs have multiple OFF timers that can be set up as a fail-safe to turn the TV off at a specific time on specific days. We never stay up past 11 pm so i have all my Panasonic TVs set to turn off at 11 pm so even if one of us falls asleep with the TV on, it shuts itself off automatically. My boss does the same thing on his TVs, and also has a timer set up to turn his bedroom TV on in the morning (he uses it as an alarm clock).

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post #9 of 11 Old 11-10-2013, 04:41 PM
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You must have not been asleep for long while watching Netflix, because Netflix on the ST60 displays a screen saver if there is no activity after a short period of time.
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post #10 of 11 Old 12-14-2013, 05:54 AM
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I agree with getting an led for gaming. I recently got an st60. Still deciding if I want to switch for an f8500 but regardless, I'm getting a 27" Asus gaming monitor to hook up to a ps4 along with audio engine a2+'s.
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post #11 of 11 Old 12-14-2013, 08:31 AM
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You are being overly cautious. You should be enjoying it and not fearing it. Go thru the advised steps for break in period and please enjoy your TV as normal. After I read you zoom in on blur rays to fill screen I stopped reading. EWWW!

You don't need another LED for gaming, games look better on plasma to me. I am the only one of 6 of my friends that play on an LCD (projector mad.gif ) and that's changing in a month. Every time I visit them I hate my TV a little more smile.gif

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