FYI ST60 Lag - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 11-08-2013, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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4 hours of BF4 - FIFA 14 & COD Ghosts

No lag whatsoever - it's the same as my Sony Led & just about the same as the S60 ...

Was I beaten to the draw more than a few times? Yes .... But you need to realize there's nerds living in their mother's basement playing on 22 inch monitors wearing headphones & talking to the nerd down the block 30 yrs old , with Star Trek figures on his desk & coordinating positions ...

The Lag issue is utter bullshat ....

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post #2 of 26 Old 11-08-2013, 11:32 AM
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This was your biggest concern (lag) about buying this set wasn't it?

bet you are relieved... smile.gif
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post #3 of 26 Old 11-08-2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

...
The Lag issue is utter bullshat ....

colnagoG60 (BF2/BF3 for PC) wouldn't steer you wrong.

wink.gif

Good luck with your set (since this is the last of the Pannys). Hope you continue to enjoy.
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post #4 of 26 Old 11-08-2013, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have a gaming setting for the st60? I know game mode on but what setting?

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post #5 of 26 Old 11-08-2013, 02:19 PM
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Good to know, might end up considering it a lot more then.

The S60 is great for some situations but it's far too reflective for me.

I missed the boat on the S64, re-sellers seem expensive ($730 for 50" on eBay at one point, no warranty so another $130 for that.. $850 and the ST60 has been $930 or less).

ST60 is perfect for me but the input lag is really worrying. All I can compare it to is my VIzio which is about 35-40ms (feels fine with game mode and like 130-140ms without it which is pretty close to unplayable even for GTA V casually. I've also played a bit on a F5300 at about 50ms and that was fine too.

I wish there was some way to feel 75ms before I bought the TV. My guess is I wouldn't notice at all, but I have a hard time dropping $950 on a TV on a guess.

How's aiming feel? On the 130 stuff it feels noticeably heavier and cumbersome..
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post #6 of 26 Old 11-08-2013, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I can only speak for myself - THIS TV IS (*&& AWESOME!!! 1st day gaming with it - my kids are playing Madden 25 right now before dinner - will probably game late night too and then I'll be double & triple checking for IR.

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post #7 of 26 Old 11-08-2013, 02:24 PM
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I posted the following question in the ST60 input lag thread (official one) but got no response:

How much input lag does the ST60 have outside of game mode? Such as with Cinema or Custom mode?
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post #8 of 26 Old 11-08-2013, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I posted the following question in the ST60 input lag thread (official one) but got no response:

How much input lag does the ST60 have outside of game mode? Such as with Cinema or Custom mode?
Here's the deal - there's NO GAME MODE .....you can TURN on Game mode in ANY setting ....get it ? so I'm gaming in Custom and I tried it in Cinema too.

No lag dude at all....

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post #9 of 26 Old 11-08-2013, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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BTW - I have the 50 inch in my basement - 7 ft away from movie seats ....maybe the 55 plus versions have more lag? your top gamers aren't fans of big tv gaming for numerous reasons - maybe the larger screens induce more lag? I couldn't justify paying $400 more for 5 inches.

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post #10 of 26 Old 11-08-2013, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

Here's the deal - there's NO GAME MODE .....you can TURN on Game mode in ANY setting ....get it ? so I'm gaming in Custom and I tried it in Cinema too.

No lag dude at all....

does the picture change at all in game mode? do any picture settings get locked/grayed out? does the picture quality degrade in any way?

BTW, how does the ST compare to the S you had for a short while?
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post #11 of 26 Old 11-09-2013, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I see no degrading ..: though video gaming In cinema mode is kinda dull ...
I used Vivid & modified it for a crisp picture ...

You can enable game mode in any setting ... Which is kinda confusing ....there's no dedicated game scene select ....

You can enable 4:4 pull down ? No idea what that means ....

Nothing greyed out

I'd say the s60 is a click quicker ....no doubt you feel like you have an advantage on the s60 - IMO on the st60 it's normal gameplay like just playing on any other TV you did before " lag " became a measurement .

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post #12 of 26 Old 11-09-2013, 08:45 AM
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Game mode must disable some "behind the scenes" smart tv stuff in order to lower input lag. By the way that is just a guess on my part. biggrin.gif

Anyways nice to hear that its working out for you. I just purchased the 60" but haven't tried any gaming yet , the PQ is awesome!
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post #13 of 26 Old 11-09-2013, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah is assume bc when you turn it on - the screen does stutter / change ...

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post #14 of 26 Old 11-09-2013, 07:58 PM
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Man this is such a hard decision. I've been thinking about either the 60 inch VT or the ST and leaning towards the VT because of game lag.
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post #15 of 26 Old 11-09-2013, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by stryderlis View Post

Man this is such a hard decision. I've been thinking about either the 60 inch VT or the ST and leaning towards the VT because of game lag.

Well if 20ms of input lag is worth the extra $700+ go for it.
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post #16 of 26 Old 11-09-2013, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurtangletn View Post

Well if 20ms of input lag is worth the extra $700+ go for it.

Well it's more like 500 price difference when both are on sale; 1300 for the ST and 1800 for the VT. It kind of seems like the advantages(aside from just the input lag) of the VT for an extra 500 might be worth it but I'm totally on the fence. Spending 1300 seems like an easier decision than spending 1800.
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post #17 of 26 Old 11-09-2013, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by stryderlis View Post

Well it's more like 500 price difference when both are on sale; 1300 for the ST and 1800 for the VT. It kind of seems like the advantages(aside from just the input lag) of the VT for an extra 500 might be worth it but I'm totally on the fence. Spending 1300 seems like an easier decision than spending 1800.

Ah I forgot I was looking at the 50" ST vs the 55" VT (I only want 50") it's about $930 vs $1600 best prices..

I was considering the same, but it's not like the VT60 is a gamer's TV or anything, it's just a little less bad then the ST60.
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post #18 of 26 Old 11-09-2013, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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@1300 you can get 55 ST

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post #19 of 26 Old 11-09-2013, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurtangletn View Post

Ah I forgot I was looking at the 50" ST vs the 55" VT (I only want 50") it's about $930 vs $1600 best prices..

I was considering the same, but it's not like the VT60 is a gamer's TV or anything, it's just a little less bad then the ST60.

Owning the VT60, and testing the ST60... the difference isn't negligible. The ST60's input lag is pretty serious, while the VT is perfectly playable. I'm a gamer, and last display I owned before buying the VT60 was a 10ms HP 27xi monitor, as well as a 65ST30 before that. Jumping from that to the VT wasn't that bad a transition. Jumping from the VT to the ST60... it's a dealbreaker. It makes a difference. Also tested a 38ms Samsung LED TV for a few days, and it too was much better than the ST60 in terms of gaming.
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post #20 of 26 Old 11-09-2013, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Raven Crimson View Post

Owning the VT60, and testing the ST60... the difference isn't negligible. The ST60's input lag is pretty serious, while the VT is perfectly playable. I'm a gamer, and last display I owned before buying the VT60 was a 10ms HP 27xi monitor, as well as a 65ST30 before that. Jumping from that to the VT wasn't that bad a transition. Jumping from the VT to the ST60... it's a dealbreaker. It makes a difference. Also tested a 38ms Samsung LED TV for a few days, and it too was much better than the ST60 in terms of gaming.

It's a fair point, 75ms to 50ms is still about 1/3 more input lag. Not anything to scoff at, but hard for me to justify going out and spending so much more for that.
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post #21 of 26 Old 11-09-2013, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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post #22 of 26 Old 11-10-2013, 01:11 AM
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What are the advantages to the VT60 over the ST60 besides input lag? I believe there is a "darker" black and A/R filter that, while it is not as bright as ST60, it's suppose to give richer and deeper blacks.

Besides that and the input lag advantage, are there any other reasons why the VT60 is superior over the ST60?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy s3 via Tapatalk Pro
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post #23 of 26 Old 11-10-2013, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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From HDTVtest.uk ..... 47 ms lag on st60 ... Rub it on your chest ...

There had to be some bad news, right? Here it is: although gaming is still enjoyable on the ST60, its input lag is higher than the outgoing ST50. The fastest configuration is to enable the “Game Mode” and make sure that “1080p Pixel Direct” is disabled. Under this configuration – which is the fastest we could squeeze out of the ST60 – we clocked the TXP42ST60B in as lagging by anywhere between 47ms and 62ms, using the high-speed camera measurement method. Enlisting the more concrete services of the Leo Bodnar Lag Tester, the measurement came out as 74.5ms (it also clocks our old ST50 in at about 47ms, the large discrepancy between this result and our camera method being something we have some theories about, but are still investigating).
As you can see, measuring input lag is not always an exact process, so to get a better understanding, we played some first-person shooter (FPS) games through an HDMI splitter, simultaneously feeding our old 50ST50 as well as the new P42ST60 (by the way, we checked to the best of our ability to guarantee that the HDMI splitter wasn’t adding its own lag, and didn’t feel that it was adding any). The take-home message should be this: this year’s ST is definitely slower for gamers, although exactly how much is difficult to determine.
We tried everything we could to reduce the TX-P42ST60′s lag, including cycling through picture modes, enabling/disabling “1080p Pixel Direct”, changing the “HDMI Content Type” mode… but 47ms was the lowest number we could get. This by no means makes games unplayable, but the buttery-smooth, blink and you’ll miss it responsiveness of the ST50 is not here. We just hope that the step-up series – the GT60, VT60/VT65, and ZT60/ZT65 – can improve on this… although it’d be the first time a higher-end model was had less lag than the mid-ranger so we’re not hugely hopeful. Still, those higher-up models do feature the new Hexa-Core processor… so perhaps the ST60′s slightly decreased gaming responsiveness will be a one-off.

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post #24 of 26 Old 11-10-2013, 10:43 AM
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“1080p Pixel Direct”? Is that the pixel orbiter?
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post #25 of 26 Old 11-10-2013, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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No no ... That's another pull down option - pixel orbiter is different .
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post #26 of 26 Old 11-19-2013, 03:17 PM
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So RicFlair, is the bottom line that you did not notice any input lag issues when gaming?

I just scored a great deal on the ST60...and am super pumped about it, BUT one of it's main uses will be for gaming.

Yes - the measurements say that the input lag is greater than the S60...the numbers are true. However, is this actually noticeable when playing??

Am I going to HATE playing BF4 now?

Currently I'm using a 2012 LG 55" LED TV (55LV4400) and don't experience any issues.

I more concerned with network latency for lag than I am my TV...
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