VT60 good in semi bright rooms? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 11-26-2013, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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ive seen some mixed reviews, how does this set preform in semi bright rooms. Such as curtains drawn , single overhead lighting.
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post #2 of 44 Old 11-27-2013, 08:39 AM
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My viewing area has several large windows with curtains and in my situation the VT has been plenty bright with headroom to spare. From what you described it should do just fine, unless you are accustomed to Bat Signal search light brightness of LCDs.
Personally I do not understand why some others complain about light output unless their viewing area is really brightly illuminated.

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post #3 of 44 Old 11-27-2013, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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alright i was just kinda fearing it looking , "washed out " or dull looking with the lights on.

I was also recommended to look into the zt series as from what i was told dark room performance is pretty similar however with the lights on theres a big difference. Any truth to this?
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post #4 of 44 Old 11-27-2013, 03:51 PM
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unknownuser,

I think you'll be very satisfied with the VT60's brightness and performance in your room. I have a 65" VT60 in a 13' x 18' room that has 4 two foot wide windows grouped side by side for a total width of 8' and these windows are just over 5' tall. My light control consists of 2 plantation blinds (each covering 2 windows) that I can adjust from totally closed to totally open and many points in between. During the day, I usually close the blinds covering the 2 windows closest to the VT60 and have the blinds covering the other 2 windows fully opened. This leaves eactly half of my 8' x5' window area open and half closed. I sit about 12' away and typically have a table lamp next to me on during overcast days and in the evenings.
Given the above conditions, the VT60 never has a problem giving me a beautiful picture that is plenty bright, richly colorered with deep black levels and very good contrast levels, even though I usually use the "THX Cinema" picture option for both day and night viewing. There is no 'washed out' or faded quality to the picture at all.
I think that some reviews give the wrong, or at least an exagerated, impression of the VT and ZT picture in rooms with some ambient light, especially when they compare these to the brighter Samsung f8500 plasma panel. The ZT60 is probably even better than the VT with ambient light due to its superior light filtering features but you have to ask yourself: is this worth $800-1000 to you given your rather low mbient light room. Also, is that overhead lighting you mentioned really necessary while watching tv or movies?
Now, both the VT and ZT front panels are made of glass that looks great when on or off but is higly reflective of light sources. My table-side lamp is clearly reflected in this glass when the tv is off but much less noticeably when the tv is on. Of course, I can always turn off the lamp if it bothered me but it rarely does. I hope this helped you with the ambient light issue that, in my case, is not really an issue at all. I suspect it won't be an issue for you either.
Thanks and good luck,
Tim
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post #5 of 44 Old 11-27-2013, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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you pretty much answered all i had to ask, im just curious now to see a comparison of the zt and vt
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post #6 of 44 Old 11-27-2013, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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also yes the light is on half and half. As i may be doing something else at the same time, not just as a theater but for watching regular tv as well. When im watching movies the lights will be out though
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post #7 of 44 Old 11-27-2013, 11:48 PM
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unknownuser,

If you search You Tube for "VE hdtv shootout 2013", you can watch videos of this comparison on the top plasmas (VT, ZT and Samsung f8500) in various areas such as black levels, color reproduction, brightness and contrast ratios. In one of the summary videos, the experts discuss which ones they recommend based on room light conditions. Lots of good info on these videos.

Tim
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post #8 of 44 Old 11-28-2013, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Ha your videos just make me want a 500m now :P
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post #9 of 44 Old 11-29-2013, 05:03 PM
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unknownuser,

If you're serious about wanting a Pioneer Kuro 500m or other Kuro, I suspect there may be a few coming up on the used markets. I would imagine that many Kuro owners have patiently been waiting for an hdtv to come along that atleast matches the picture quality of their excellent, but aging, Kuros. They might have decided, as many reviewers and consumers have, that the VT and ZT and possibly the f8500 have finally met this picture quality challenge. Some may sell their Kuro to fund the purchase of a new Panasonic or Samsung. The Kuros were limited to 60" maximum screen size which may cause others to want to increase to a 65" inch plasma, as well.

If I had a Kuro, however, I'd buy a new unit now and keep my Kuro if I could afford to.

Good luck,
Tim
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post #10 of 44 Old 11-29-2013, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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lol no i wasnt serious , i want something new with a warranty , i actually work a tbestbuy and get a fair discount on any of the 3 above... however the Zt is still a large gap over the vt.. the vt is about 100$ more thent he same samsung 8500 as that was another one i was debating on. None of which are in my store so i cant get a visual of if the difference .
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post #11 of 44 Old 11-30-2013, 12:59 PM
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knownuser200:I" actually work at a bestbuy and get a fair discount on any of the 3 above... however the Zt is still a large gap over the vt.. the vt is about 100$ more thent he same samsung 8500 as that was another one i was debating on. None of which are in my store so i cant get a visual of if the difference ."

knownuser,
I think you are misclassifying your room and this is causing you some indecision on which hdtv is best for you. From everything you've stated in this thread: curtains to mediate daylight and 1 overhead light that can be turned off when needed, I would say your roomw should be classified as 'low light or dim with the ability to control the light and become dark'. Since you work at a Best Buy, the following distinction between areas in a typical BB may be clearer to you:

High ambient light conditions=the area of the store where the less expensive tvs are wall mounted or on stands nearby. This area is somewhat open to daylight from the stores large front windows along with numerous bright overhead lights.

Low ambient light conditions= the Magnolia section. This area is shielded somewhat from daylight and the electric lighting is controllable and usually kept at a lower level.

I would say your home viewing room is even darker and the electric lighting just as controlable as the Magnolia section. Therefore, all 3 hdtvs you're considering (VT, ZT and f8500) would look great in your viewing room. The choice comes down to which picture looks best to you.
I'm not sure why your BB does not have all 3 tvs on display. After my research and viewing the Value Electronics 2013 hdtv shootout,I went to my local Best Buy to compare the same 3 models and all were on display. Maybe you could check with your store management and find out when all 3 will be on display. If it will take a while, you could also compare all 3 at a Sears store.
With your employee discount, you're in an excellent position to buy the picture you like at a very good price. Your room conditions are fine and should not be involved in your decision. I am not suggesting you buy the VT just because I thought it was best. I'm saying you should buy the one you like the best and you shouldn't buy any until you're able to compare all 3 to see which one you like best, Of course, price is important, too. I just checked BB's prices without your employee discount and they are:

VT= $2399
ZT= $3200
f8500= $2999 (onsale)

Choose wisely grasshopper,
Tim







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post #12 of 44 Old 12-01-2013, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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actually we have none of the 3 on display as were not a Magnolia bestbuy. we pretty much have the cheap tvs and single 4 k waste of money. theres another bestbuy about 20 minutes away that has a vt series but not on display its just stock. the closest Magnolia is quite a bit away. So id be ordering any set in i wanted. those prices you also listed with the exception of the sale are not what i pay. mark ups are different per tv. the discount on pansonic is less then samsung
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post #13 of 44 Old 12-01-2013, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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also i know its kinda unrelated but what happened to the sharrp elite series?
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post #14 of 44 Old 12-01-2013, 11:42 PM
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unknownuser,
If your store has no Magnolia section and the nearest BB with all 3 tvs on display is too far, can you travel to a nearby Sears to compare? I'd suggest not buying anything this expensive without first comparing all 3 in person.







also i know its kinda unrelated but what happened to the sharrp elite series?

The Sharp Elite series hdtvs, according to many reviewers, are good units for led/lcd units but are greatly overpriced. Also, the consensus opinion seems to be that the top plasmas, as well as a few competing led/lcds, handily beat them on overall picture quality, color accuracy and off-axis viewing angles while costing thousands less. In short, good hdtvs but bad values.I usually have more sense than money, so I never considered buying one. In fact, I ruled them out even though I've never viewed one.
Please let us know which one you order,
Tim
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post #15 of 44 Old 12-02-2013, 12:39 AM
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This thread is of great interest to me, though I cannot help the OP as I am in his same shoes. It kills me that there is no way to know if the $2k-3k TV I'm about to purchase will be too dim for viewing in my room until it has already been delivered and set-up in my house. My situation, since there was prior talk of window sizes and locations, is that I have nine 3'x6' windows facing north and west (in a 3x3 two-story grid that wraps a corner), and it is unavoidable that the TV must sit on a southern wall directly facing the last, lowest window on the north wall. Of course I have blinds, but only on the lowest three windows, and they aren't black-out shades, just some weird venetian/accordianish style that still glows a little when drawn. My '08 Kuro is suffering a bit in this house, and during the day if I'm trying to watch some dimmer programming, say, Boardwalk Empire, it's nearly washed out at times. (The Kuro is headed to the basement, so no offers accepted :P) So... what qualifies as a "bright" room??? This oft-used descriptor in nearly all of the reviews never receives any attempt at being defined. I certainly don't want to spend $800+ more for a ZT if the improvement is indiscernible, nor if both the VT and ZT are very poor performers next to an LED in this room. I've been to BB and Paul's TV, and the TVs are never next to each other or facing direct light, so it's of little use for comparison - not to mention the crappy signal feed always present in stores like that.

I guess I'd be curious if anyone has their VT opposite a window and if it's still ok - or if it's so bad they've tried to return it or sell it.

The other contenders are the Samsung 8500, and maybe the UN65F8000 LED if that's what I really need to overcome the light - there's just no way to know without reaching out to others who may have even worse/brighter conditions in their homes and asking what your experience has been.

I still do the majority of my viewing during the evening, so it's not like I wouldn't appreciate the better picture of the VT or ZT plasmas during those hours; it's just that I'd still want a pretty good picture during the day and not one that's barely watchable.

Thanks.
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post #16 of 44 Old 12-02-2013, 03:26 AM
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joeyjoey,

First of all, what selfrespecting videophile would buy or build a home that has 9 3' x6' windows wrapping around the north and west walls? Did your wife talk you into this travesty? Masochism? Temporary insanity? I think we may have to banish you from our little audio/video club for that. Or. at the very least, we should issue a 'formal written warning' to ensure you don't repeat your thoughtless and reckless behavior that is a serious affront to home theater lovers the world over and may have ruined your chances of attaining video nirvana. Ah, just pulling your leg/giving you some sh*t because you deserve it..... and it's fun.

Actually, the windows locations are probably better where they are as oppossed to wrapping around the south and east wall. Correct me if I'm wrong, but daylight shouldn't be excessively streaming in depending on your geographic location, the season and time of day, like it would tend to do from the south and east. If you want to atone for your transgression of having these windows in your house and appease the home theater gods, having remote controlled daylight blocking blinds installed on all 9 windows would not only solve your issue and gain favor with our superiors, it would also be pretty damn cool to press a button and all the blinds close for ideal lighting conditions.

Unfortunately, I don't have a definitive solution for you or unknownuser. As I stated on an earlier post, I do think reviewers cling to the mantra that the Samsung f8500 is the solution for bright room plasma viewing. However, having lived with the VT for about a month and seeing all 3 in person, I can say for certain the VT performs very well in somewhat bright conditions and excellent in darker conditions. I can also say that the f8500 performs very well in bright conditions but the picture appears more LED/LCD like, rather than plasma like, in the process. Thef8500 definitely gets much brighter than the Panasonics. The VT is capable of going brighter than the ZT but the ZT has superior light rejecting filters which may produce a better picture in total in a bright room depending on where the light is coming from. In the store's light controlled conditions I compared these tvs in, I could not detect any differences between the VT's and ZT's picture qualities. Both looked very good and, imho, better than the f8500 in these conditions (mainly in better, more natural colors). I wasnot able to compare all 3 in bright room conditions. It's a cliche by now, but 'you can't go wrong with any of these 3' seems acurate to me.

Hoped this helped you some,
Tim
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post #17 of 44 Old 12-02-2013, 04:10 AM
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When you have a situation such as the original poster described, sometimes the only thing you can do is buy it from a store that has a good return policy.

Things don't go the way you had hoped, send it back.

I'm having the same questions about the ZT and with the recent price drop, it's getting very interesting.

By the way I have four 6'wide 10'tall windows to deal with. Without question, during certain times of the year you can't see very good on a 65VT50. Think the 2013s are a shade dimmer.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #18 of 44 Old 12-02-2013, 11:18 AM
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JimP,

I just arranged for a company to install remote controlled blinds on joeyjoey's problem windows. He'll be coming to your place when he's done.

I was surprised by your comment that the 2013 model 65VT60 is a shade darker than the 2012 65VT50. I was curious what picture mode each tv was in when you compared them? The 'Standard' mode is dim looking in my room but the 'THX-Cinema' mode is brighter and works great for me in both bright and dark room lighting. There are a few more modes that are even brighter on the VT/ZT if you'd like, such as 'Vivid' and ;THX-Bright Room' but I never have the need to use them.

Four 6' x 10' windows in your room? Really? That's just downright disrespectful and a flagrant violation of atleast one law in our nonexistant audio/video rule book. I wouldn't be surprised if someone presses charges and you wind up in the AVS Forum jail awaiting trial. Don't kid yourself, the jail does exist. I've had to break outta that wretched place a few times in my more sinful home theater youth. One tip,have your friends bring plenty of firepower if you go the jailbreak route, that place is a fortress.

I'd suggest lawyering up and having an escape plan just as a backup. Forget about going on the run,though, their vicious henchman will hunt you down no matter where you try and hide out. I finally decided to mend my ways and follow the rules after twice being recaptured by these guys. The last time, they nabbed me in Antarctica where I was hiding out disguised as a penguin. They used a delicious looking tuna to flush me out. When I wised-up at the last second, I tried to make a run for it but couldn't run quick enough in that stupid costume with the tiny legs.

Just my experienced 2 cents worth,
Tim
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post #19 of 44 Old 12-02-2013, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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i think im going with the vt60 reason being , at another BB they have the vt in stock unfortunately not on display but one in stock none the less.. vrs the samsung i would have to order in or drive an hour and half to pick up. If i dont like it ill return it and get the sammy vrs ordering something in and then changing my mind after i got it home is kinda a headace
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post #20 of 44 Old 12-02-2013, 07:34 PM
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unknownuser,

I think you're going to be very pleased with the VT, mine still puts a smile on my face everytime I turn it on. I believe it will perform very well in your room no matter when you watch it. I guess you bought it at a great price, considering your emplyee discount, and the Samsung would cost you hundreds more. I seriously doubt you'll want to return the VT, though it's very nice to have that option (worst case).

An added bonus with theVT and ZT is the size of the shipping box. You'll want to keep it in case a return comes about, but if you keep the VT you can use the empty carton as a guest house, room addition or a garage.

Please post your impressions after you view the TV for a few weeks. Also, the 'THX-Cinema' picture setting looks great right out of the box. But there are several threads on this site discussing various methods you can use to breakin/condition the panel for the first 100+ hrs of initial use and the optimum picture settings according to a couple of professional calibrators. I just wall mounted mine, though, and started to watch various satellite channelsright away for the first 100 hrs ( avoiding watching channels with on-screen logos for more than an hour or so) and the tv operates flawlessly. I've had no panel buzzing, fan noise or image retention issues at all.

Enjoy your new tv,
Tim
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post #21 of 44 Old 12-02-2013, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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i havent picked it up yet i will shortly though... im new to plasmas is there anything i need to know about break in? i see all different things across the web.
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post #22 of 44 Old 12-02-2013, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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ps to clarifiy i work in car audio at BB hence the non overwhelming amount of knowledge about things like this
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post #23 of 44 Old 12-03-2013, 01:02 AM - Thread Starter
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post #24 of 44 Old 12-03-2013, 02:09 AM
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"i havent picked it up yet i will shortly though... im new to plasmas is there anything i need to know about break in? i see all different things across the web."


unknownuser,

There is a professional hdtv calibrator that has the user name "d'nice" that has a large following on this site. I could write a book on his recommendations but I don't have the time to describe all his advice and theories. I suggest you read his posts on AVS to learn more about this. I think d'nice is actually the guy named Dewayne who appears on several segments on the' VE 2013 HDTV Shootout' videos. The short gist is that he believes a new plasma panel needs to be prepared/conditioned for the first critical 100 or so hours of use by running a series of special image slides (that he has selected) which he claims prepares the tv for his subsequent custom calibration settings in order to attain the best picture quality possible. Plasma 1080p hdtv panels contain just over a million tiny gas filled cells called pixels that ignite to produce a color (red, blue and green) when electricity is supplied. These pixels, in total, are what constitutes the screen picture. These million+ pixels reignite or refresh hundreds of thousands of times per second according to the bluray's or broadcast's direction via a digital signal. His theory is that his slides prepares the gases in each pixel better than watching regular tv or movie content would. If you want to learn more you can read his posts and read tutorials on how plasma works on this site or via google searches.

I'll let you decide whether you want to follow his instructions or not after you learn more. I didn't use his slides and therefore don't consider myself qualified to comment on whether they are effective or not. I'll remain agnostic until I actually try his method. I started viewing regular satellite content on my VT60 right out of the box. My picture looks great just using the pre-calibrated 'THX -Cinema' picture mode but I just don't know if using d'nice's slides and settings would have made the picture quality even better. I'll just state, in conclusion, that I have a hard time imagining how the picture quality could look any better than it currently does but I could be missing something.

Enjoy your new tv,
Tim
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post #25 of 44 Old 12-03-2013, 06:27 AM
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lh8uQf

I think that some reviews give the wrong, or at least an exagerated, impression of the VT and ZT picture in rooms with some ambient light, especially when they compare these to the brighter Samsung f8500 plasma panel. The ZT60 is probably even better than the VT with ambient light due to its superior light filtering features but you have to ask yourself: is this worth $800-1000 to you given your rather low mbient light room.

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post #26 of 44 Old 12-04-2013, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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so d nice basically expect you to have this brand new set that your all excited about.. sit on your stand playing slides for the the first roughly 4 days ?
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post #27 of 44 Old 12-04-2013, 11:00 PM
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unknownuser,

Yes, that's kind of my reaction, too. But many members here swear by his program/slides.

I've read that delaying one's gratification is a sign of maturity. So,,I guess I must be pretty frigging immature because I just started watching satellite broadcasts as soon as it was set-up.
I can appreciate the work that D nice put into his theory, slides and optimum calibration settings but I was a bit skeptical and too curious to see what all the fuss was about, I'm just an audio/ video enthusiast who likes a great picture along with great sound. I'm not sure if I have the visual skills to even notice the improvements of Dewayne's finished pq over the precalibrated 'THX-Cinema' picture mode pq.

Of course, it's up to you on whether you follow his directions or just start enjoying right away. Worst case, you'll be watching a less than optimal plasma picture as long as you own the tv. However, you'll have enjoyed a still awesome picture for 100 hrs longer than those who followed the program.

Relax, you're going to get a great picture either way.
Tim
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post #28 of 44 Old 12-05-2013, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
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link to said slides
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post #29 of 44 Old 12-05-2013, 03:28 PM
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Apparently everybody likes to talk "slides" but nobody reads the thread in question. The ONLY reason to use slides is to age a panel in preparation for having it calibrated. If you're not having it calibrated, slides accomplish nothing.

Tony
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post #30 of 44 Old 12-13-2013, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by noble100 View Post

unknownuser,

I think you'll be very satisfied with the VT60's brightness and performance in your room. I have a 65" VT60 in a 13' x 18' room that has 4 two foot wide windows grouped side by side for a total width of 8' and these windows are just over 5' tall. My light control consists of 2 plantation blinds (each covering 2 windows) that I can adjust from totally closed to totally open and many points in between. During the day, I usually close the blinds covering the 2 windows closest to the VT60 and have the blinds covering the other 2 windows fully opened. This leaves eactly half of my 8' x5' window area open and half closed. I sit about 12' away and typically have a table lamp next to me on during overcast days and in the evenings.
Given the above conditions, the VT60 never has a problem giving me a beautiful picture that is plenty bright, richly colorered with deep black levels and very good contrast levels, even though I usually use the "THX Cinema" picture option for both day and night viewing. There is no 'washed out' or faded quality to the picture at all.
I think that some reviews give the wrong, or at least an exagerated, impression of the VT and ZT picture in rooms with some ambient light, especially when they compare these to the brighter Samsung f8500 plasma panel. The ZT60 is probably even better than the VT with ambient light due to its superior light filtering features but you have to ask yourself: is this worth $800-1000 to you given your rather low mbient light room. Also, is that overhead lighting you mentioned really necessary while watching tv or movies?
Now, both the VT and ZT front panels are made of glass that looks great when on or off but is higly reflective of light sources. My table-side lamp is clearly reflected in this glass when the tv is off but much less noticeably when the tv is on. Of course, I can always turn off the lamp if it bothered me but it rarely does. I hope this helped you with the ambient light issue that, in my case, is not really an issue at all. I suspect it won't be an issue for you either.
Thanks and good luck,
Tim

Great information Tim,

I just bought a new house and will be purchasing the 55VT60 either today or tomorrow. My room is a little smaller than yours (9x12) but still has large windows that face SE with wooden blinds that can be adjusted and my indicates that she plans to add curtains/window treatments and we plan to paint the room a less reflective color than in the pic below by the original owners. Do you see the windows posing a problem with the 55VT60?

Pic is from previous owner.
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