Samsung PN51F5300 – What a little gem! - i1Pro Calibration results inside - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 953 Old 12-05-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post



Hi John,



Wow, lucky friend! That 's a very nice wedding gift.



No service menu adjustments are necessary because the user menus offer all the control I could ask for. (well, except mutli point gamma adjustments, but overall the user control is fantastic)



I use these same settings for my PS3, (which I use for my Blu-Ray), as well as my DirecTV receiver. They both seem to work well with the same calibration. The ONLY thing I could see potentially needing to be adjusted for each source is the brightness. (depending on how your video range is setup for each source, 15-235, or 0-255) It should be obvious if the brighntess is not correct though.



Dan

 



Thanks very much for the clarification, Dan.

Well, having friend = being lucky. He wouldn't hesitate to do the same for me--in popular urban parlance--he is my brother from a different mother. On a more serious note, based on your expert experience and opinion, is there panel-to-panel variations of substance that would merit individualized calibration for units from the same model? I'm so glad that I don't have to fiddle with the service menu. It's a testament to how well-equiped the set comes in.

Lastly, I did one better for myself than my friend. I have a Pany 60" VT60 on it's way from Amazon, so it seems there will be more research to be done here on the forum to hone that bad boy. Any pointer or resource you can direct me to would be most welcomed and greatly appreciated. Maybe an investment on the i1Pro in the future is in order here, but if I can get 95% of the benefits of a full fledge calibration, then I'm off on a great start.

So sorry to everybody that I'm verging off topic here, but given this is a calibration thread and I'm finding useful and helpful insights, I couldn't resist.

Hopefully, I will be able to dial it in and get that beast to sing!

Thanks a million.
John
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post #32 of 953 Old 12-05-2013, 04:07 PM
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I just picked this set up last Wednesday at Best Buy when it was on sale. I agree, the picture quality for the money cannot be beat. It is very reflective but honestly I don't notice except for when the screen is dark/off. I actually like the way it looks in daylight better than my old LG edge-lit LED.
Question for Dan: did you do anything with the Black Optimizer settings? I had mine set on Dark Room thinking that it kept the blacks lower all the time. Do you leave yours Off completely?
Thanks,
Brian
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post #33 of 953 Old 12-05-2013, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinedom View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post



Hi John,



Wow, lucky friend! That 's a very nice wedding gift.



No service menu adjustments are necessary because the user menus offer all the control I could ask for. (well, except mutli point gamma adjustments, but overall the user control is fantastic)



I use these same settings for my PS3, (which I use for my Blu-Ray), as well as my DirecTV receiver. They both seem to work well with the same calibration. The ONLY thing I could see potentially needing to be adjusted for each source is the brightness. (depending on how your video range is setup for each source, 15-235, or 0-255) It should be obvious if the brighntess is not correct though.



Dan

 



Thanks very much for the clarification, Dan.

Well, having friend = being lucky. He wouldn't hesitate to do the same for me--in popular urban parlance--he is my brother from a different mother. On a more serious note, based on your expert experience and opinion, is there panel-to-panel variations of substance that would merit individualized calibration for units from the same model? I'm so glad that I don't have to fiddle with the service menu. It's a testament to how well-equiped the set comes in.

Lastly, I did one better for myself than my friend. I have a Pany 60" VT60 on it's way from Amazon, so it seems there will be more research to be done here on the forum to hone that bad boy. Any pointer or resource you can direct me to would be most welcomed and greatly appreciated. Maybe an investment on the i1Pro in the future is in order here, but if I can get 95% of the benefits of a full fledge calibration, then I'm off on a great start.

So sorry to everybody that I'm verging off topic here, but given this is a calibration thread and I'm finding useful and helpful insights, I couldn't resist.

Hopefully, I will be able to dial it in and get that beast to sing!

Thanks a million.
John

Well, I can't really say how much panel to panel variation these sets have, since I've only calibrated this one. However, it's worth a shot to try my settings. You can always go back to the defaults if that doesn't work smile.gif I do expect that my settings will be much improved versus the out of the box settings though.

I do love having my i1pro. It costs a pretty penny, but it's been well worth it. I found a nice Revision D model on Ebay used, and it's been flawless. Plus, it truly enjoy calibrating displays and seeing how much performance I can eek out of them. I had an inexpensive i1D2 meter before, but that one drifted over time and caused more headaches than benefits.
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Originally Posted by heels98 View Post

I just picked this set up last Wednesday at Best Buy when it was on sale. I agree, the picture quality for the money cannot be beat. It is very reflective but honestly I don't notice except for when the screen is dark/off. I actually like the way it looks in daylight better than my old LG edge-lit LED.
Question for Dan: did you do anything with the Black Optimizer settings? I had mine set on Dark Room thinking that it kept the blacks lower all the time. Do you leave yours Off completely?
Thanks,
Brian

Yeah, this display is about as reflective as they get, so your room environment will make a big difference whether or not it will work for you. Like you, it's been just fine for me, and I have a 9'x7' set of windows right next to it. However, the display is facing away from the window, at an angle in the corner of the room.

I haven't messed with the black optimizer yet. It's off on my set right now. I have read in other reviews that the dark room setting can help with the black level, but I haven't messed with it. I'll try to take a look tonight and get back to you. Most of the time, I turn most of those "extra settings" off, since they cause more harm than good. The black level optimizer may be an exception though. I'll check it out.

Dan
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post #34 of 953 Old 12-05-2013, 09:48 PM
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Don't mean to thread drift but can't find this info, does this display have pass-thru audio via optical or does it down-mix to 2.0 channel?
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post #35 of 953 Old 12-05-2013, 09:52 PM
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Hey Dan,

 

Using your settings, I am getting perfect picture quality for HDTV cable.  Thank you so much.

 

I'm having issues however, when using my other hdmi input, my PS4.  I want to use game mode to reduce input lag, and that paired with the same settings i'm using for cable just is not looking good.  Even with game mode off, it still is not looking how I think it should.  If i had to try to describe it, it's like far away objects are not looking too sharp, almost blurry, and the overall picture seems like there's a film or a certain hue over it that just doesn't look like it should.  Do you think you could use your calibration tool and skills to figure out an optimum game mode setup with the newest generation of game consoles? 

 

Thanks, I appreciate your work!

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post #36 of 953 Old 12-06-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Well, I can't really say how much panel to panel variation these sets have, since I've only calibrated this one. However, it's worth a shot to try my settings. You can always go back to the defaults if that doesn't work smile.gif I do expect that my settings will be much improved versus the out of the box settings though.

I do love having my i1pro. It costs a pretty penny, but it's been well worth it. I found a nice Revision D model on Ebay used, and it's been flawless. Plus, it truly enjoy calibrating displays and seeing how much performance I can eek out of them. I had an inexpensive i1D2 meter before, but that one drifted over time and caused more headaches than benefits.
Yeah, this display is about as reflective as they get, so your room environment will make a big difference whether or not it will work for you. Like you, it's been just fine for me, and I have a 9'x7' set of windows right next to it. However, the display is facing away from the window, at an angle in the corner of the room.

I haven't messed with the black optimizer yet. It's off on my set right now. I have read in other reviews that the dark room setting can help with the black level, but I haven't messed with it. I'll try to take a look tonight and get back to you. Most of the time, I turn most of those "extra settings" off, since they cause more harm than good. The black level optimizer may be an exception though. I'll check it out.

Dan

You will get darker blacks with the black optimizer set to dark room, but it will cause minor black level fluctiations based on content (darker blacks in darker scenes, lighter blacks on brighter scenes). With the optimizer on, I measured .004 fl, and with it off .006 fl.

I left it on for my calibrations, as I don't find the minor fluctuation too distracting and want the darker black on dark scenes. I assume it never fluctuates highter than .006f fl, so it's not a huge difference
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post #37 of 953 Old 12-06-2013, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by koolmoj View Post

Don't mean to thread drift but can't find this info, does this display have pass-thru audio via optical or does it down-mix to 2.0 channel?

I'm curious about this too. I have the set on order, I know my 42" s60 down mixes but was curious if the Samsung did as well. Would simplify my life if it passed out a full dts signal.

Mike
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post #38 of 953 Old 12-06-2013, 07:13 PM
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I just hooked mine up, just stuck it on movie mode and my impressions are pretty great so far.

I'm watching hockey and so far can't notice the ABL pops (though I put the cell light down to 15, small room, bedroom) which is a huge sigh of relief. Motion is great as well.

I'm also shocked at how well this thing takes overhead lights, it's reflective but I was so worried and nervous about this that I nearly convinced myself to grab an 8500 largely for a good glare filter... I don't think it's going to be an issue for me..

Another shocker is how well this thing reacts with line bleed, my PN680 (2010) is kind of a mess on those commercials with a white background and white text, this is clean, and I can't even see any linebleed what so ever yet...

One complaint is the side HDMI ports.. now I can see the two curved HDMI connectors... on the other side amazing how thin this thing is, didn't quite realize how thin it is till I took it out of my box.. doesn't even look like a Plasma in terms of design..

I can not believe I paid so little for such an amazing TV... wow... "What a little gem" is quite an accurate description.
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post #39 of 953 Old 12-06-2013, 07:33 PM
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Do these settings apply to the 60" version?

I am on the look out for the 60" set, when it goes on sale again it will be in my living room.

Funny thing. I just recently decided to hang my Pannie 50" plasma TV on the wall and my wife said it looks small. She then walked up to the TV and with her arms stretched, she said she wanted this much taller, and that much wider.

I guess it mean she gave the green light for a bigger the TV. smile.gif
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post #40 of 953 Old 12-06-2013, 09:23 PM
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Just added stereoman's settings, look awesome! Great picture, might actually lower the cell light a tinge, since it's in a bedroom and actually really close to me.

What does game mode change? Things look a bit more saturated, is there anything I can do for the settings to make it a bit less jumpy crazy?

Edit - Just realized it has it's own settings panel.. will re-adjust to yours!
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post #41 of 953 Old 12-07-2013, 07:51 AM
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Sorry to double post but it's a different topic

I was trying the camera input lag test and on PC input it was about 35ms different than my very fast LCD (U2312HM). Which is pretty great.

Oddly though when I turned off PC mode it started to actually get faster than my LCD? Not sure what happened there, no wonder input lag tests done without the Bodnar tool are all across the board inaccurate as hell..

That being said any gamers considering this , inputlagdatabase has it at about 45ms, don't know if that was game mode or PC input or which one is faster.

Also did this motion test - http://www.testufo.com/#test=ghosting

And the UFO on my LCD was blurry (though no trails or any motion annoyances) and this is completely clear.. amazing.
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post #42 of 953 Old 12-07-2013, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a note, I reduced the green and yellow settings in the color space section by a few notches. (I already adjusted the numbers in my first post) I was noticing that the greens and yellows were slightly more saturated and brighter than the other colors when viewing normal content. Mainly the skin tone was a little too yellow for my taste. So I backed them off a little. This is a minor tweak, but I do notice the improvement.

Of course, all panels are different and my settings may not apply to all. Overall, I'm extremely impressed still.

On another note, if -2 on the gamma setting just looks too dark overall, the -1 gamma may be better for you. The higher the gamma number, the more washed out the picture will be, but the overall picture will be brighter. The lower gamma values provide a punchier picture, but it is darker overall.

Dan
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post #43 of 953 Old 12-07-2013, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolmoj View Post

Don't mean to thread drift but can't find this info, does this display have pass-thru audio via optical or does it down-mix to 2.0 channel?

Well, the digital output options are PCM, Dolby Digital, DTS, and DTS Neo 2.5. I down mix mine via PCM, so I haven't tried the other output options.
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Originally Posted by Jax954 View Post

Hey Dan,

Using your settings, I am getting perfect picture quality for HDTV cable.  Thank you so much.

I'm having issues however, when using my other hdmi input, my PS4.  I want to use game mode to reduce input lag, and that paired with the same settings i'm using for cable just is not looking good.  Even with game mode off, it still is not looking how I think it should.  If i had to try to describe it, it's like far away objects are not looking too sharp, almost blurry, and the overall picture seems like there's a film or a certain hue over it that just doesn't look like it should.  Do you think you could use your calibration tool and skills to figure out an optimum game mode setup with the newest generation of game consoles? 

Thanks, I appreciate your work!

Not sure about the Game mode. I haven't tried it yet, as any gaming that I do is on my projector.
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Originally Posted by will7046 View Post

You will get darker blacks with the black optimizer set to dark room, but it will cause minor black level fluctiations based on content (darker blacks in darker scenes, lighter blacks on brighter scenes). With the optimizer on, I measured .004 fl, and with it off .006 fl.

I left it on for my calibrations, as I don't find the minor fluctuation too distracting and want the darker black on dark scenes. I assume it never fluctuates highter than .006f fl, so it's not a huge difference

Good info, thanks. I'm just leaving it off for now. I might mess with it later, but like you say it's not a huge impact overall.
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Originally Posted by mwagner9 View Post

I'm curious about this too. I have the set on order, I know my 42" s60 down mixes but was curious if the Samsung did as well. Would simplify my life if it passed out a full dts signal.

Mike

Please see my comments above. The Samsung manual doesn't help much either.
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Originally Posted by Kurtangletn View Post

I just hooked mine up, just stuck it on movie mode and my impressions are pretty great so far.

I'm watching hockey and so far can't notice the ABL pops (though I put the cell light down to 15, small room, bedroom) which is a huge sigh of relief. Motion is great as well.

I'm also shocked at how well this thing takes overhead lights, it's reflective but I was so worried and nervous about this that I nearly convinced myself to grab an 8500 largely for a good glare filter... I don't think it's going to be an issue for me..

Another shocker is how well this thing reacts with line bleed, my PN680 (2010) is kind of a mess on those commercials with a white background and white text, this is clean, and I can't even see any linebleed what so ever yet...

One complaint is the side HDMI ports.. now I can see the two curved HDMI connectors... on the other side amazing how thin this thing is, didn't quite realize how thin it is till I took it out of my box.. doesn't even look like a Plasma in terms of design..

I can not believe I paid so little for such an amazing TV... wow... "What a little gem" is quite an accurate description.

Yeah the side HDMI inputs are kind of annoying. Fortunately, my cables don't show at all in my setup. Mine is in the corner of the room.
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Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Do these settings apply to the 60" version?

I am on the look out for the 60" set, when it goes on sale again it will be in my living room.

Funny thing. I just recently decided to hang my Pannie 50" plasma TV on the wall and my wife said it looks small. She then walked up to the TV and with her arms stretched, she said she wanted this much taller, and that much wider.

I guess it mean she gave the green light for a bigger the TV. smile.gif

Not sure about the settings on the 60" vs the 51". Others may have some input here...

Dan
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post #44 of 953 Old 12-07-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax954 View Post

Hey Dan,

Using your settings, I am getting perfect picture quality for HDTV cable.  Thank you so much.

I'm having issues however, when using my other hdmi input, my PS4.  I want to use game mode to reduce input lag, and that paired with the same settings i'm using for cable just is not looking good.  Even with game mode off, it still is not looking how I think it should.  If i had to try to describe it, it's like far away objects are not looking too sharp, almost blurry, and the overall picture seems like there's a film or a certain hue over it that just doesn't look like it should.  Do you think you could use your calibration tool and skills to figure out an optimum game mode setup with the newest generation of game consoles? 

Thanks, I appreciate your work!

Aww man,

I just noticed this on NHL 14... it's just as you say, game mode off seems to help a little bit but it's still kind of unsharp/off looking from afar.

I've done a bit of testing, I think it may have something do with the 720p scaling.. because Minecraft on my PC at 1080p and it seemed to be fine and the two fighting games I was playing earlier looked great too (I'm pretty certain they are 1080p).. Killzone 3 (720p) on the PS3 seemed off as well, although not as bad as NHL 14..

Is there anything that can be done about this? 720p video/TV looks fine.. is there a test out there to determine how well/poorly a TV downscales?

Man it's always something with TVs.. the S60 has issues with motion and doesn't get all that bright, the ST60 has 75ms of input lag even with game mode, and then this seems to have some really bad downscaling on 720p.. and then the LEDs are all totally mixed bags... I'm not even sure what I want to do.. I'm sort of considering a return, but I don't know what else there is in this price segment ($600-$700, and hell I paid about $450 after the Best Buy deal) that's going to do any better and not have major downsides of their own. Everything else looks great on it.. hockey/sports/TV...

Also, a lot of people talk black levels and some of the more spec stats of a TV but this TV has some amazing motion, I don't see any dithering/mosquito effect, line bleed, and on top of that this TV seems incredibly resistant to IR.. I haven't seen a hint of it even after watching sports/playing games for hours... this TV fixes a lot of the annoyances I've had with plasma..
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post #45 of 953 Old 12-07-2013, 11:14 PM
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Does this TV have a black level setting? (Dark/low/moderate etc)

I know I've had to mess with that and/or video settings on the consoles to get good picture on Samsung TVs in the past.
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post #46 of 953 Old 12-08-2013, 11:45 AM
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Does this TV have a black level setting? (Dark/low/moderate etc)

I know I've had to mess with that and/or video settings on the consoles to get good picture on Samsung TVs in the past.

Yes it does in the advance setting area. It called Black Tone. Mine is set to darkest. smile.gif Man did Dark Knight look great on it last night. If anyone wants to try...My Tint is set to G35/R65 to get rid of the green on faces.

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post #47 of 953 Old 12-08-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes it does in the advance setting area. It called Black Tone. Mine is set to darkest. smile.gif Man did Dark Knight look great on it last night. If anyone wants to try...My Tint is set to G35/R65 to get rid of the green on faces.

Just be careful using the tint control to fix one color. It impacts all colors.

You might be better off going into the color space menu and reducing the green. Once you have chosen green in the color space menu; reduce the red, green and blue option by five notches each and see if that helps. You may need to be something similar for yellow.

Dan
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post #48 of 953 Old 12-08-2013, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Just be careful using the tint control to fix one color. It impacts all colors.

You might be better off going into the color space menu and reducing the green. Once you have chosen green in the color space menu; reduce the red, green and blue option by five notches each and see if that helps. You may need to be something similar for yellow.

Dan
Hi Dan It actually didn't change any color. Try it out and see how you like it. The more I look at the TV the more I like it. Thanks for your amazing settings.

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post #49 of 953 Old 12-09-2013, 07:43 AM
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Quick question how many hours does it take using Scrolling feature to fully break in the sammy TV? Also does it have to have specific setting(Brightness, contrast, etc,) to use Scrolling feature? Best Pixel Shift settings? Thanks for your help.

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post #50 of 953 Old 12-09-2013, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax954 View Post

Hey Dan,

Using your settings, I am getting perfect picture quality for HDTV cable.  Thank you so much.

I'm having issues however, when using my other hdmi input, my PS4.  I want to use game mode to reduce input lag, and that paired with the same settings i'm using for cable just is not looking good.  Even with game mode off, it still is not looking how I think it should.  If i had to try to describe it, it's like far away objects are not looking too sharp, almost blurry, and the overall picture seems like there's a film or a certain hue over it that just doesn't look like it should.  Do you think you could use your calibration tool and skills to figure out an optimum game mode setup with the newest generation of game consoles? 

Thanks, I appreciate your work!

Not really sure what I did or if I just got used to it, I changed the input to PC and pushed sharpness up a bit and it seemed to look great in KZ3 last night which is 720p. I'll post some settings when I get home if it helps at all. Didn't re-test NHL 14 yet though, which seemed the most off. Hard to remember if I'm just getting nostalgia and remembering the game more clearly than it actually is.. been about a year (skipped NHL 13). I remember playing MLB The Show after a years break and being shocked at how bad it looked compared to what I remember.

Sadly on the other end of the spectrum I started to notice the ABL pops with hockey badly, going to hopefully try to tweak settings and get them down to a minimum, not sure why I didn't see it the first game, maybe differences in arena/ice. It's odd because I have a Samsung Plasma already and I'm perfectly fine with the ice looking a bit dank in exchange for great motion/being able to actually follow the play.. but I've never really seen the pops nearly as bad unless I had Vivid mode on or something. Hopefully I can find some decent middle ground because this is such a great set at this price and I want to keep it, the only other TV I'd consider outside of this one is the F8500.. and that would be over 3x more.
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post #51 of 953 Old 12-09-2013, 10:14 AM
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I am sorry if this already mentioned, but did you break in the TV prior to calibration?

Is a break in period still necessary?

Thanks,
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post #52 of 953 Old 12-09-2013, 10:55 AM
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Hi too all,i have this tv coming this week,got it for 529,hope not to hard to set up,never had a plasma! Plus with tbi i have,ya brain injury! hope it goes all well,so if i message wrong sorry still work in progress.
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post #53 of 953 Old 12-10-2013, 10:48 AM
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Played a bit more NHL 14 and noticed how ugly it gets because of the ABL.

Certain patches on ice turn greenish and eventually you start to lose a lot of detail/texture on the ice.. frown.gif

This set defiantly gets more aggressive than my 3 year old Samsung, at least on the other one you could lower cell light and largely avoid it.. but even with a warmer white balance it has the same issue. Oddly though no flashing or ABL pops when playing NHL 14.

Not really sure what I want to do with this set now, everything besides hockey looks amazing, but the biggest reason I got the TV was for hockey..

Going to continue to try to tweak some settings.. $460 or whatever I paid is so little for this TV it's ridiculous and the only other TVs I'm looking at are 2-3x in price (Sony 47W802A at about $1100, and The F8500 51" at ideally about $1600).
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post #54 of 953 Old 12-10-2013, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtangletn View Post

Played a bit more NHL 14 and noticed how ugly it gets because of the ABL.

Certain patches on ice turn greenish and eventually you start to lose a lot of detail/texture on the ice.. frown.gif

This set defiantly gets more aggressive than my 3 year old Samsung, at least on the other one you could lower cell light and largely avoid it.. but even with a warmer white balance it has the same issue. Oddly though no flashing or ABL pops when playing NHL 14.

Not really sure what I want to do with this set now, everything besides hockey looks amazing, but the biggest reason I got the TV was for hockey..

Going to continue to try to tweak some settings.. $460 or whatever I paid is so little for this TV it's ridiculous and the only other TVs I'm looking at are 2-3x in price (Sony 47W802A at about $1100, and The F8500 51" at ideally about $1600).

Have you updated to the latest firmware? I thought I read somewhere that firmware had been released to assist with that issue.

I'm curious because I bought this set for my parents for Christmas.
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post #55 of 953 Old 12-10-2013, 02:40 PM
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I kept forgetting to check for the firmware update thanks; Here is the info: http://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/PN51F5300AFXZA

Read: http://www.ehow.com/how_7222517_update-samsung-tv-lcd-firmware.html

Make sure to copy your setting before doing the update as this update will reset everything back to original settings.

Upgrade File(USB type) (Firmware) (ver.1017.1)

ModelPDP F4 Series, F5300 Series/

Description: Picture quality improvement in HDMI.

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post #56 of 953 Old 12-10-2013, 06:15 PM
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I'm pretty sure mine has the latest or even newer than the site, 1024..
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post #57 of 953 Old 12-10-2013, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtangletn View Post

I'm pretty sure mine has the latest or even newer than the site, 1024..
What 1024??? The new one is 1017.1 I wonder if that is on another samsung site? Hmmm...

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post #58 of 953 Old 12-10-2013, 06:53 PM
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What 1024??? The new one is 1017.1 I wonder if that is on another samsung site? Hmmm...

Yeah unless they preloaded a new firmware to it, it says current ver. 1024.

Manufactured in October, anyone have another one?
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post #59 of 953 Old 12-10-2013, 07:11 PM
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Where does it say when it was Manufactured?

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post #60 of 953 Old 12-10-2013, 07:14 PM
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Back of the unit, same sticker that has the s/n, It's on the left side.
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