Samsung PN51F5300 – What a little gem! - i1Pro Calibration results inside - Page 21 - AVS Forum
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post #601 of 1379 Old 06-24-2014, 10:04 PM
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You might want to try the update to 1017.1 first.
http://www.samsung.com/us/support/ow...PN60F5350AFXZA
Then update to 1027.2.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

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post #602 of 1379 Old 06-25-2014, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw325 View Post
Hello everyone.
I recently purchased the 60F5350 from Costco and have been trying to update from firmware v1003 (seems pretty old, don't you think?). I have download v1027.1 and v1027.2 extracted it to a thumb drive formatted fat32 as per Samsung instructions but the TV would update. I know the TV ca read the thumb drive because media player pops up when insert it. It says "There no new updates for you at the moment". I've contacted Samsung and have gone thru their standard procedures, reset the TV to factory blah, blah, blah default but that didnt help...Has anyone experienced this issue? Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.

bmw (I have a 3 series too),

I read somewhere in the 4500's section that people ran into this as well. Check your model number see if it is PN60F5300BFXZA. My understanding is that the "B" indicates you have a 2014 model (also check your build date). The guys with 4500's said that the 1003 is in fact the latest firmware and the other two versions are for the "A" model a.k.a. 2013 build dates. Check the page on the Samsung site that you downloaded from. If you click on 64" or 51" the model listed is an "A" and you can download those files. Click on the 60" size and the model is a "B" and there is no firmware to download.

Let me know if this makes sense or not. What I'm trying to say is your firmware IS up to date.

EDIT:
The pages I'm talking about are for the 5300 model, but I think the logic about "A" and "B" models still applies.

Last edited by cjpk248; 06-25-2014 at 08:55 PM. Reason: Update
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post #603 of 1379 Old 06-26-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cjpk248 View Post
What I'm trying to say is your firmware IS up to date.
Yes, you're right. My 51F5300BFXZA was manufactured in March and it shipped with v.1003. Since then, no firmware updates have been released for BF models.
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post #604 of 1379 Old 06-29-2014, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post
1. What size F5300 did you get?
2. Are you trying to plug someone else's settings into your TV (which is generally a no-no), or working from the TV's default settings?
3. Are you trying to use this in a dark room, or one which has some illumination?
4. What are your current Picture Mode, Cell Light, Brightness, Contrast, Color, Tint and Gamma (in Advanced menu) settings?

A little more info would help to point you in the right direction to get the kind of picture you want.
1. 51"
2. I've tried doing both, not happy with either.
3. There's some light coming through the closed blinds during the day, but most of my viewing is done at night.
4.
Standard - Warm2
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 2
Color: 52
Tint: 50/50
Gamma: 0

Also, I should ask. Is there any reason to upgrade the firmware? I've noticed mine is behind a few updates.
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post #605 of 1379 Old 06-29-2014, 03:11 PM
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I hope you used a pattern and blue screen to set color and tint.
Yes, it's usually a good idea to upgrade firmware, unless the early adapters report problems.
Many people with meters and calibration software can get these sets pretty close to "perfect."
So yours either needs better (real) calibration, or you're used to the type of picture you had, which maybe you can match and maybe you can't.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

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post #606 of 1379 Old 07-01-2014, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by showsjohn View Post
1. 51"
2. I've tried doing both, not happy with either.
3. There's some light coming through the closed blinds during the day, but most of my viewing is done at night.
4.
Standard - Warm2
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 2
Color: 52
Tint: 50/50
Gamma: 0

Also, I should ask. Is there any reason to upgrade the firmware? I've noticed mine is behind a few updates.
Wow, why do you have sharpness set so low? Thats too low, man, the image must look like it has vaseline smeared all over it.
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post #607 of 1379 Old 07-01-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post
Wow, why do you have sharpness set so low? Thats too low, man, the image must look like it has vaseline smeared all over it.
Not at all, I find a higher sharpness to look way too coarse on this particular set. Was watching LOTR earlier with the sharpness on 30 and the outlines on the foliage were noticeably overblown, had to take it way down to smooth out the image.
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post #608 of 1379 Old 07-01-2014, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by showsjohn View Post
Not at all, I find a higher sharpness to look way too coarse on this particular set. Was watching LOTR earlier with the sharpness on 30 and the outlines on the foliage were noticeably overblown, had to take it way down to smooth out the image.
Agree. See some of my comments on Sharpness below.

Sorry for the delay in responding to your previous post, showsjohn, but it's been awhile since I played with some of the features on this model, and needed to reacquaint myself with a few controls. I should also mention that I don't currently own one of these TVs, so I'm mostly goin on memory here (with some help from the online manual and CNET).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I hope you used a pattern and blue screen to set color and tint.

Yes, it's usually a good idea to upgrade firmware, unless the early adapters report problems.

Many people with meters and calibration software can get these sets pretty close to "perfect."

So yours either needs better (real) calibration, or you're used to the type of picture you had, which maybe you can match and maybe you can't.
Agree with pretty much all the above. But there are some basic steps you can probably take to initially get closer to something decent, without a CMS.

If you've already made tweaks to various picture settings and want to start over from a clean slate, you can RESET the display back to it's factory defaults in the Support/Self Diagnosis menu. That'll probably also erase any channels that've been scanned/saved though.

I actually sort of liked the Game Mode on this display, but that only works with external sources, and may not include some of the advanced color settings. So I recommend beginning with the Movie Mode. The default settings in that mode are a pretty good starting point for adjustment. I believe these are the Movie mode defaults (or close to them)...

Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 20
Color: 50
Tint: 50/50
Picture Size: 16:9

All of the above settings are somewhat source-dependent. And you should adjust the Cell Light setting to something which is comfortable for your eyes, given your particular viewing habits. 20 might be ok for a fairly bright room, but probably too bright for a darker room, where something in the mid or lower range might be a little more reasonable. The higher you set Cell Light, the greater the risk of burn-in as well, when the TV is new.

Sharpness is also somewhat subjective and content-dependent. In theory, you shouldn't really need any added sharpening on HD sources on a TV like this, especially because alot of video content already contains some edge-enhancement. However, the subpixel addressing on the display can make the picture appear a little softer, particularly in a horizontal direction, so some sharpening (say, in the 5-20 range) might be desirable to counteract that. SD sources might also need a bit more sharpening to enhance what little detail may be there. I don't think you'll need much more than 20 on HD sources though.

In addition, I'd recommend using the "Screen Fit" Picture Size rather than the default "16:9", unless you want to use the Pixel Orbiter to help reduce the appearance of IR/burn-in, or if you see "garbage" along the edges of the image,... in which case, set it back to "16:9".

I recommend the following Advanced Settings...

Dynamic Contrast: OFF
Black Tone: OFF
Flesh Tone: OFF
Color Space: CUSTOM or AUTO
Gamma: -1 or -2
Motion Lighting: OFF

The Color Space and White Balance controls in this menu can't really be accurately adjusted without a CMS (or a good D65 reference). So I recommend leaving those alone for the time being.

If you change Gamma to -1 or -2, as suggested above, then you may also need to tweak the basic Brightness setting to keep shadow details from being crushed. Lowering Gamma to -1 or -2 will give the picture a richer, more dimensional appearance than the default Gamma of 0 though, which is why I recommend the above values.

If you don't have a calibration disc handy to help out with Brightness adjustment, then you can probably use the black bars on widescreen "letterboxed" (ie ~2.35:1 aspect ratio) Blu-ray or DVD movies to tweak the Brightness.

While the movie is playing, raise the Brightness control until you begin to see random specks (dithering) in the black bars. Then lower the Brightness until you get to the setting were all the random specks are gone from the black bars.

You might want to try this with a couple different letterboxed movies, to verify that the setting is correct. Generally speaking, the black bars on letterboxed movies should be pretty close to reference black (Y'=16). But there can be some variation on this from movie to movie.

(SIDENOTE: If you watch a lot of widescreen ~2.35 ratio movies at high Cell Light settings when the TV is new, you may get some permanent burn-in the middle of the screen. Zooming the picture so it fills more of the screen may help reduce the chances of that.)

I suggest the following Picture Options...

Color Tone: WARM1
Digital Clean View: OFF
MPEG Noise Filter: OFF
HDMI Black Level: NORMAL
Black Optimizer: DARK ROOM

The Dark Room Black Optimizer setting will cause some slight fluctuations in the brightness of shadow detail, but it will make the blacks deeper on all-black and darker scenes. If you're not a fan of "floating blacks" though, then you may simply want to turn the Black Optimizer OFF.

If you have a player that supports 24p output, then you might also want to try the Cinema Smooth feature in the Film Mode setting to reduce judder.

Also, In the System/Eco Solution menu, turn both the Energy Saving feature and Eco Sensor OFF.

The most important changes to your settings above are probably the Movie Picture Mode, Gamma of -1 or -2, and Warm1 Color Tone. The White Balance also needs to be adjusted on these displays for better accuracy though.

The 2-Point White Balance controls should be sufficient for most users. Unfortunately, I didn't get around to making any tweaks to that when I had one of these units on hand. And haven't had the chance to research what other users are doing. So I can't recommend any settings for that yet.

There will always be some variation from TV to TV as well, which is why I don't generally recommend copying other users' White Balance settings (esp. the 10-Point controls). There are probably some general assumptions that can be made about the direction the adjustments need to go though from others' pre/post-calibration graphs.

If you want to try the Game Mode (in the System/General menu), the only change I would make above is to the Color setting. My recollection is that the default of 50 is too high for both the Game and Standard Picture modes, and it needed to be reduced to around 44. This may be somewhat source-dependent though, which is why it's a good idea to get a calibration disc to help out with these settings. You can probably find more info on those in the Calibration forum.

All you really need to accurately set the Color and Tint on these displays is a color decoder test that looks something like this...



You would use the RGB Only feature in the Advanced Settings to display only the red, green or blue subpixels on the TV. And then adjust the Color control until the visible color bars or swatches are the same brightness. When you have the Blue Only mode enabled, for example, the Blue, Magenta, Cyan, and White bars should all look the same color and brightness. The same principal applies to the Green Only, and Red Only modes.

Unfortunately, this is a step that alot of CMS users skip in their calibrations. And they will often end up trying to compensate for too much or too little color saturation in their other color settings, like the OP. (It appears to me that his Color setting is too high for the Standard Picture Mode, and it looks like he's trying to rein the color saturation back using the Color Space settings, which is not a good strategy imo.)

If you can't get the colors to appear more or less identical in each of the RGB Only modes, then that could indicate a color decoding problem on your video player/source device (which is quite common). The Tint setting generally shouldn't need any adjustment from it's defaults of 50/50 btw.

I can't remember whether Game Mode stores it's own distinct picture settings btw, or if it uses (shares) the settings in the Standard Mode. But you would need to re-enter all the above settings in one or the other to get the same results in Game Mode as in the Movie Mode.

If you still feel like the color on the display lacks punch after making all the above adjustments, then you could try increasing some of the Custom Color Space values to give the TV more of a "wide gamut" look. The color probably won't be as accurate, but if you like very saturated colors, using the Color Space settings is a better way to go imo than simply boosting the basic Color control (which would take the display's color decoding out of proper adjustment).

Last but not least , don't watch the TV in a totally dark room. Try to keep at least a couple lamps on to either side of the display. That'll help to make the blacks look deeper, and reduce eye-strain.
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Last edited by ADU; 07-28-2014 at 11:53 PM.
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post #609 of 1379 Old 07-01-2014, 06:13 PM
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How do I check to see how many hours are on my pn60f5300
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post #610 of 1379 Old 07-01-2014, 08:46 PM
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Samsung PN60F5300 calibration settings?

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #611 of 1379 Old 07-02-2014, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by showsjohn View Post
Also, I should ask. Is there any reason to upgrade the firmware? I've noticed mine is behind a few updates.
It's generally a good idea to keep the firmware up to date. It's probably more crucial on Smart displays though which have more apps on board that need to be kept up to date.

Check some of the comments above re the A vs. B panel firmware updates as well. Might save you some hassles.

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post #612 of 1379 Old 07-02-2014, 12:38 PM
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So I picked up one of these yesterday at HH Gregg (great price by the way at $519.99), and I had a chance to play with it last night - I must say it has a great picture as long as you don't have a lot of windows with bright light coming in. It's not so much the light output, which I think is actually pretty good for a plasma, but the mirror like screen itself. In any case, I'm taking it back to exchange for another one since I found a faulty blue sub pixel this morning. Kind of a pain, but I count myself among the anal retentive AVS types here, haha.

I also noticed another thing when putting up slides to check for uniformity / pixel issues: There were a few noticeable horizontal lines across the screen (maybe 6 or 7 pixels wide) in a few places with bright white slides on the screen. The lines appeared ever so slightly brighter than the rest of the screen, but not terribly so. I only saw it when staring at slides, so I wasn't going to return it for that since I didn't see it watching normal content, but the faulty blue sub pixel sealed the deal.

The buzz was okay, but I have noticed a trend with Samsung plasmas in that they tend to have a more noticeable buzz than the Panasonics ever did. Not anywhere near a deal breaker, but noticeable on lower volume content. And to those that say their plasmas don't buzz, they all buzz to varying degrees. Some more than others, and a lot depends on panel placement and room acoustics, but all plasmas buzz.

I just couldn't resist getting another plasma after hearing Samsung was dropping them soon, and the price was too good to be true. Here's hoping the next one has no bad sub pixels, faint horizontal banding, and maybe be just a little quieter!
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post #613 of 1379 Old 07-02-2014, 01:56 PM
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Hi Everyone - I'm looking to get the PN51F5300 and I just had a question I hope someone here can help answer.

One feature that I actually like is the "motionflow" type features just about every 120hz LCD/LED TV has now. I just hate seeing "judder" effect in motion movies/games etc. I understand it's a gimmicky feature that shouldn't even be set to on when watching films but ever since I've seen it I can't stand watching movies when there is judder in any motion.

Does the 600hz sub field drive on this TV help to remove judder but also keep the picture from having that soap opera look?

Thanks in advance for any input!
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post #614 of 1379 Old 07-02-2014, 02:21 PM
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My model has a magenta/pink push on white and grays on the right half of the screen. It's not terrible, but enough to bother me. (Once you've sent it...). I've contacted Samsung and am waiting for contact back. I'm wondering if anyone here knows if the pink affect is just from the AR filter since it's uniform on one half of the screen or if the affect can be fixed by adjusting volts to the panel. I'm thinking if it's the filter, I'll have to exchange. The reason I think it might be that is because it's not a "hotspot" but more uniform. Any thoughts from someone more technically savvy?
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post #615 of 1379 Old 07-02-2014, 09:52 PM
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In the calibration settings when it comes to the numbers for white balance like the Roffset is that plus or minus
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post #616 of 1379 Old 07-03-2014, 04:00 PM
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Better get them quick cause the prices will go up.

Samsung hammers final nail into plasma TV’s coffin, will end panel production in November 2014

By Caleb Denison July 1, 2014


It appears the plasma television has finally met its end. According to Reuters, Samsung SDI issued a statement claiming it will cease plasma display panel production in November 2014. Digital Trends reached out to Samsung’s consumer electronics division for comment but had not heard back at the time of publishing.
The death knell was tolled last year when Panasonic announced that it would no longer produce its award-winning plasma televisions. At the time, videophiles and TV enthusiasts in general let out a collective sigh of disappointment, though some solace could be taken in the fact that Samsung was still producing top-notch plasma TVs. Samsung’s excellent F8500 series in particular is generally considered to be the last truly high-end display readily available to consumers outside of wildly expensive OLED televisions, which remain hard to come by.
Though Fujitsu gets credit for producing the first full-color plasma display panel in 1992, it was Philips in 1997 that produced the first plasma television to be sold to consumers – the display was 42-inches diagonally and begged a premium price of $15,000. Pioneer quickly followed with its own plasma television line later that year, and thus the “flat-screen” TV craze was born.
Plasma televisions work by sandwiching electrically charged gasses between two panes of glass. Early versions of the plasma television were heavy, bulky, extremely power-hungry, and suffered from screen burn-in problems. By contrast, LCD-based televisions were thinner, lighter, and far more energy efficient. As a result, LCD-based televisions began overtaking plasma in 2006. Though plasma TVs are now lighter, brighter, thinner and more efficient than ever, the technology’s poor standing in the public’s eye has relegated it as a second-string choice for all but the most tech-savvy – or budget conscious – buyers.
While low-end plasma models will continue to be sold in the coming months, premium, high-performance plasma options are expected to dwindle quickly. After Panasonic announced it was ending plasma TV production, its award winning ST60, VT60 and ZT60 series televisions began flying off store shelves. Today, it is nearly impossible to find a new, in-box ST60 unit, and availability of the two higher-end series are all but gone as well.
LG now stands as the last major manufacturer still producing plasma televisions, but it is highly likely the company will bow out soon enough, since plasma televisions no longer make sense from a financial perspective. Regardless, it is safe to say that the best plasma televisions are now behind us.
At this point, those looking for the best possible picture quality must look to OLED, a TV technology that remains prohibitively expensive for most, though prices have come down in the past two years. Currently, LG leads the charge in premium OLED production, introducing five new models at CES 2014 earlier this year. Samsung also offers a single OLED TV model, which was introduced 2013 and stands as the most beautiful television we’ve ever reviewed.

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post #617 of 1379 Old 07-03-2014, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjpk248 View Post
My model has a magenta/pink push on white and grays on the right half of the screen. It's not terrible, but enough to bother me. (Once you've sent it...). I've contacted Samsung and am waiting for contact back. I'm wondering if anyone here knows if the pink affect is just from the AR filter since it's uniform on one half of the screen or if the affect can be fixed by adjusting volts to the panel. I'm thinking if it's the filter, I'll have to exchange. The reason I think it might be that is because it's not a "hotspot" but more uniform. Any thoughts from someone more technically savvy?
The F5300 doesn't have an AR filter, so that wouldn't be the cause. The issue looked fairly minor to me in the image you posted here. If it bothers you though, then maybe you should try an exchange (if it's still within the return period)?

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post #618 of 1379 Old 07-03-2014, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by xericmx View Post
Hi Everyone - I'm looking to get the PN51F5300 and I just had a question I hope someone here can help answer.

One feature that I actually like is the "motionflow" type features just about every 120hz LCD/LED TV has now. I just hate seeing "judder" effect in motion movies/games etc. I understand it's a gimmicky feature that shouldn't even be set to on when watching films but ever since I've seen it I can't stand watching movies when there is judder in any motion.

Does the 600hz sub field drive on this TV help to remove judder but also keep the picture from having that soap opera look?

Thanks in advance for any input!
If your player can output 24p, then you can use the "Cinema Smooth" feature in the Film Mode on the F5300, which should eliminate the 3:2 judder on movies by switching the TV's refresh rate to a multiple of 24.

To the best of my knowledge though, there is no frame interpolation routine that will simulate the "soap opera effect" on these TVs. (There might be something like that on the more pricey F8500 though.)

As you're probably already aware, the motion characteristics are different on plasma TVs than on LCD/LEDs. Plasmas have more "flicker", which tends to make the motion look a bit "smoother" or more natural than TVs without flicker, such as LCDs and LEDs. If you're used to the latter though, then the motion quality (and flicker) on a plasma TV may take a little time/adjustment to get used to.

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post #619 of 1379 Old 07-04-2014, 03:41 AM
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Anyone notice judder while watching netflix? When the camera pans I see judder. Im not sure if this is how its supposed to be or ? Ive heard of pulldown but havent done much research. Can anyone confirm?
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post #620 of 1379 Old 07-04-2014, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post
If your player can output 24p, then you can use the "Cinema Smooth" feature in the Film Mode on the F5300, which should eliminate the 3:2 judder on movies by switching the TV's refresh rate to a multiple of 24.

To the best of my knowledge though, there is no frame interpolation routine that will simulate the "soap opera effect" on these TVs. (There might be something like that on the more pricey F8500 though.)

As you're probably already aware, the motion characteristics are different on plasma TVs than on LCD/LEDs. Plasmas have more "flicker", which tends to make the motion look a bit smoother than TVs without flicker, such as LCDs and LEDs. If you're used to the latter though, then the motion quality (and flicker) on a plasma TV may take a little time/adjustment to get used to.
Thanks for the reply! Not that I'm a big fan of the effect but I really have a hard time watching tv now with judder. It just looks unnatural to me now so I know my next tv needs to have some kind of feature to remove it. I'm coming from a so y SXRD 60a3000 I'm trying to sell.
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post #621 of 1379 Old 07-04-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post
The F5300 doesn't have an AR filter, so that wouldn't be the cause. The issue looked fairly minor to me in the image you posted here. If it bothers you though, then maybe you should try an exchange (if it's still within the return period)?
Thanks I wasn't sure if it had a filter on it or not. It isn't really noticeable unless you just have a white screen, but my main concern would be if it worsens I don't want to be stuck with a half pink screen in a year or two. Samsung is supposed to come out and look at it so I will update with what they say. I have about 40 days left to return to BB and will do that if they're not helpful.
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post #622 of 1379 Old 07-04-2014, 05:31 PM
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Anyone notice judder while watching netflix? When the camera pans I see judder. Im not sure if this is how its supposed to be or ? Ive heard of pulldown but havent done much research. Can anyone confirm?
Didn't watch any NF on the F5300, but some judder would be normal on any 24 fps film-based content. If your NF player supports 24p HDMI output, you might give that a try with the Film Mode/Cinema Smooth setting, to see if it looks any better.

You could also try sending the TV a 1080i signal, and experiment with some of the other deinterlacing options in the Film Mode instead, to see if they look any less "juddery".

I removed my previous "Film Mode OFF" recommendation, btw, because the best setting for that control will probably be very source-dependent. I think most of the Film Mode settings only apply to interlaced 480i and 1080i (and 576i, if you're in PAL territory) inputs/signals, so it might be better to leave it at the default setting unless you begin to notice excessive amounts of judder, jaggies, or other interlacing/motion artifacts on interlaced content. Progressive 480p, 720p, and 1080p inputs/signals will probably be uneffected by the Film Mode settings, unless you're sending a 24p signal to the display and using the Cinema Smooth feature.

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post #623 of 1379 Old 07-04-2014, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post
Didn't watch any NF on the F5300, but some judder would be normal on any 24 fps film-based content. If your NF player supports 24p HDMI output, you might give that a try with the Film Mode/Cinema Smooth setting, to see if it looks any better.

You could also try sending the TV a 1080i signal, and experiment with some of the other deinterlacing options in the Film Mode instead, to see if they look any less "juddery".

I removed my previous "Film Mode OFF" recommendation, btw, because the best setting for that control will probably be very source-dependent. I think most of the Film Mode settings only apply to interlaced 480i and 1080i (and 576i, if you're in PAL territory) inputs/signals, so it might be better to leave it at the default setting unless you begin to notice excessive amounts of judder, jaggies, or other interlacing/motion artifacts on interlaced content. Progressive 480p, 720p, and 1080p inputs/signals will probably be uneffected by the Film Mode settings, unless you're sending a 24p signal to the display and using the Cinema Smooth feature.
Another thing I just thought of.I wonder if netflix is just like this because its being streamed? I never really noticed it on my low end lcd. But I never noticed it until I purchased the plasma expecting super smooth . High expectations
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post #624 of 1379 Old 07-04-2014, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cjpk248 View Post
Thanks I wasn't sure if it had a filter on it or not. It isn't really noticeable unless you just have a white screen, but my main concern would be if it worsens I don't want to be stuck with a half pink screen in a year or two. Samsung is supposed to come out and look at it so I will update with what they say. I have about 40 days left to return to BB and will do that if they're not helpful.
I thought BB's return policy was 15 days for most customers, and 30 days for Gold members?

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post #625 of 1379 Old 07-04-2014, 05:42 PM
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I thought BB's return policy was 15 days for most customers, and 30 days for Gold members?
I thought it was 15 and 45
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post #626 of 1379 Old 07-04-2014, 05:47 PM
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I thought BB's return policy was 15 days for most customers, and 30 days for Gold members?
Regular: 15 days
Elite: 30 days (1500 spend)
Elite plus: 45 days (3500 spend)
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post #627 of 1379 Old 07-04-2014, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Plasma5300 View Post
Another thing I just thought of.I wonder if netflix is just like this because its being streamed? I never really noticed it on my low end lcd. But I never noticed it until I purchased the plasma expecting super smooth . High expectations
Well, you're talkin to someone who's largely NF ignorant. So not much more I can add on this, except to recommend trying some different resolutions (1080p/i) and motion settings on the player and display, to see which combination works best.

If your player supports 24p output, try it with Cinema Smooth turned ON and also turned OFF, to see if it looks any different than a standard 60 Hz output.

I'm so used to the 3:2 judder on my CRTs, that I just left my BD player set to 60Hz for most of my viewing on the F5300. If I do end up "committing" to a 51F5300 purchase though, then I may try some of the other options.

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post #628 of 1379 Old 07-04-2014, 06:21 PM
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Regular: 15 days
Elite: 30 days (1500 spend)
Elite plus: 45 days (3500 spend)
Tks for clarifying.

If anyone sees a sweet deal on the 51F5300 this weekend, feel free to post in the Deals forum, or wherever. Maybe I can get BB to PM it.

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post #629 of 1379 Old 07-04-2014, 07:17 PM
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Well, you're talkin to someone who's largely NF ignorant. So not much more I can add on this, except to recommend trying some different resolutions (1080p/i) and motion settings on the player and display, to see which combination works best.

If your player supports 24p output, try it with Cinema Smooth turned ON and also turned OFF, to see if it looks any different than a standard 60 Hz output.

I'm so used to the 3:2 judder on my CRTs, that I just left my BD player set to 60Hz for most of my viewing on the F5300. If I do end up "committing" to a 51F5300 purchase though, then I may try some of the other options.
So what is 3:2 judder and what does it look like? So I know im experiencing it
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post #630 of 1379 Old 07-05-2014, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Plasma5300 View Post
So what is 3:2 judder and what does it look like? So I know im experiencing it
A couple articles to explore...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#2:3_pulldown (includes a brief section on telecine judder)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down

In the "old days" before digital cinema, motion picture projectors would actually display every frame of film twice using a steady 2:2:2:2:2:2... cadence, to reduce the sensation of flicker on the screen. So the projected frame rate was actually 48 fps, or double the 24 fps at which the film was shot, since each frame was displayed twice.

To match the 60 Hz (ie 60 frames or fields per second) rate of video though, those original 24 fps of recorded film footage have to be stretched out even a bit further. The "odd" frames are displayed twice, and the "even" frames are displayed three times, in a continuous "asymmetric" 2:3:2:3:2:3... cadence. The asymmetrical nature of this cadence gives the motion a slight "jerkiness" or unevenness, which is most noticeable on smooth camera pans. That uneveness is what people refer to as telecine judder.

My understanding is that the Cinema Smooth feature switches the frame rate of the F5300 to 96 Hz, which allows each frame of film to be displayed 4 times, in a steady 4:4:4:4:4:4... cadence (instead of the usual 2:3:2:3... pattern), thus removing the judder from the motion. I believe it only works with 24p inputs though.

Some prefer the more steady 4:4:4:4:4:4... cadence, while others (who are more used to judder) may prefer the standard 60 Hz 2:3:2:3:2:3... cadence.
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