Samsung PN51F5300 – What a little gem! - i1Pro Calibration results inside - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1138 Old 07-24-2014, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post
I haven't really noticed much transient image retention (IR) on these displays, but they are HIGHLY SUSCEPTIBLE TO PERMANENT BURN-IN, esp. when brand new, and esp. when using higher Cell Light settings.

Cell Light controls the brightness of the TV's menu system. And the higher it's set, the greater the chances are the menus will leave permanent burn-in. So don't linger in the menus too long, esp. when Cell Light is set high. And try to keep pillarboxed, letterboxed and windowboxed content to a minimum for at least a few months, or zoom it in so that it fills the whole screen. You've been advised.
My experience has been the opposite. Short-term IR occurs in seconds (and goes away in seconds) but I've played console games with static HUDs for long periods regularly (and when I do finish a long gaming session and decide to watch a movie I might see some IR that lasts somewhat longer from the game but when I finish up the game (after playing it for anywhere from a few days to a few weeks) and start playing a different one, the IR from the first goes away pretty quickly.

So, to sum up the above, this TV has very short-term IR that goes as quickly as it comes and then it has the potential for more persistent IR which only goes when you stop displaying the content that caused it and move to different content (at which point it completely goes after a few hours or a few days depending on how long what caused it was displayed and how bright/opaque the HUD/static element was).

Also, I always use cell light 20 since the pro calibrator Doug Blackburn mentioned lowering cell light from max increases ABL activity (makes it more aggressive). I use a contrast setting of 90 or so since that's the highest that doesn't discolor WTW on a test pattern (makes it color shift badly when set higher than 89-90 in standard/game mode).
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post #722 of 1138 Old 07-24-2014, 09:24 AM
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I don't use pixel shift by the way, since it's disabled when picture size is set to screen fit. Also, the S60 I had before this set was much worse with IR when the pixel orbiter was off. It had IR that lasted for weeks caused by content displayed for only 2-3 hours max ONCE (and was still faintly visible after those weeks, despite using pixel flippers, screen washes, etc.) I never had to do anything like that with this set and honestly I treat it like an LED-LCD and have had no issues related to IR in 1,800 hours of use (bought it in January and have played countless games since then).


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post #723 of 1138 Old 07-24-2014, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I don't use pixel shift by the way, since it's disabled when picture size is set to screen fit. Also, the S60 I had before this set was much worse with IR when the pixel orbiter was off. It had IR that lasted for weeks caused by content displayed for only 2-3 hours max ONCE (and was still faintly visible after those weeks, despite using pixel flippers, screen washes, etc.) I never had to do anything like that with this set and honestly I treat it like an LED-LCD and have had no issues related to IR in 1,800 hours of use (bought it in January and have played countless games since then).
I was so impressed with gaming (BF4/XB1) last night for the first time on my 60" F5300 I decided to make it my primary gaming display. My only concern being burn in. Nice to hear that your experience has been so positive.
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post #724 of 1138 Old 07-24-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post
I was so impressed with gaming (BF4/XB1) last night for the first time on my 60" F5300 I decided to make it my primary gaming display. My only concern being burn in. Nice to hear that your experience has been so positive.
I've been playing mainly on the X360 and PS3 (since there are plenty of games I want to max out achievements/trophies in) but I have played about half a dozen on my PS4, which have truly amazing visuals (like Call of Duty Ghosts, Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition, Killzone Shadow Fall, Infamous Second Son, Need for Speed Rivals).

I plan on getting the Xbox One in the fall since I want to play Forza Motorsport 5 and Forza Horizon 2 (not to mention upcoming Halo and Gears of War titles).


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post #725 of 1138 Old 07-24-2014, 10:51 AM
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ADU:

Thanks for all the feedback.

I'm running in movie mode now, which, by default, has all the dynamic BS off: noise reducer, dynamic contrast, eco sh...er, stuff, etc.

I shifted to Warm 1 immediately, before seeing anything on the forum to that effect, because it seemed like the 'Just Right' spot to me.

I have gamma at -1; based on the default settings would this be closer to 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, ??? I've never had a calibration unit, so I really don't know what I'm looking for along those lines.

Is there any reason that you go with Standard Mode over Movie mode?

The only thing I'm wavering on is the dark room setting: I turned it on last night, but it seemed like I was seeing some flickering where the dark part of the image would go lighter/darker as the camera wavered a bit. That being said, this was on breaking bad, the first season, which is not always the most pristine presentation. I need to go back and see if that is a source based issue, or if the dark room threshold is so steep as to cause that effect.

On IR/Burn-In/etc...

Wow, thanks for rekindling my latent burn-in fears Seriously though, I'll keep this in mind. I'm thinking of experimenting with lower cell light settings just to see how it affects ABL pops and overall image stabilty.

That being said, I must say that my limited experience so far is much more in line with PlasmaPZ80U's: IR occurs in seconds, but goes away just as quick. Perhaps your displays suffers less from this because you keep the cell light lower. I've noticed that nothing actually seems to affect the black screen MLL but the Dark Room Optimizer; I wouldn't mind a dimmer image, but it seems like reducing the cell light has no effect on the base black level.
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post #726 of 1138 Old 07-24-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Now that I've had time with the menu system, I have a better understanding of how the color space values impact the color gamut. WHen I calibrate, I consider the whole color gamut, not just the 100% saturation points at the outside of the REC.709 gamut triangle.

Basically, my initial calibration put all the color saturations and hues in the right spot, but the lightness of the colors was too high.

This new calibration not only has the correct saturations and hues correct, but also the correct lightness. This one awesome set to calibrate.

One thing to note, do not touch the main color or tint controls. I found out quickly that if you reduce the main color control to bring down the color saturation at 100%, well then the 75%, 50% and 25% saturation values become WAY undersaturated. (I've seen something similar with other displays like Epson Projectors, although it works a little different)
Dan, I had a question about calibrating colors using the CMS controls on this panel. I've read through the entire thread regarding the Epson calibrations. With regards to this panel what was your calibration approach? Did you go with 100% Brightness, 75% Saturation windows for color calibration, or 100% Saturation, 75% Stimulus? Also, I presume that whatever approach you take, you basically tweak the custom white point controls for primary and secondary colors to match up xyY for all of them to whatever patches you are using for calibration (ie 100% Color, 75% Color, 75% Saturation, etc). Ultimately, do you just tweak the primaries and secondaries as best you can for a fixed brightness and saturation and then "hope" that the colors and saturations track well across the rest of the range?

Thanks for the excellent Epson tutorial and the Excel spreadsheet. I'm looking forward to calibrating my PN60F5300 over the weekend.
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post #727 of 1138 Old 07-25-2014, 10:57 AM
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My viewing distance will be about 5-7 ft, do you think that would be okay with the 51 inch screen? Also is DLNA available with this set?

Thx in advance
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post #728 of 1138 Old 07-25-2014, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by drak View Post
My viewing distance will be about 5-7 ft, do you think that would be okay with the 51 inch screen? Also is DLNA available with this set?

Thx in advance
At seven feet, especially, I think the 51" F5300 is great. Five feet is not too close to me for a 51" screen, but others may prefer something like a 46" (obviously unavailable in the F5300). We're about seven to nine feet from the TV in our living room, and at nine feet, I wouldn't mind something a bit larger, though the 51" is definitely not too small.

You may find this helpful: http://www.rtings.com/info/televisio...e-relationship
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post #729 of 1138 Old 07-25-2014, 12:50 PM
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drak:

Sitting about 6-7 feet from mine and it's about perfect. 5 would be a little close for me, but it would still look fine. Any closer and you'll start to see dithering noise if you have 20/20 vision. I can even see a little at 5 feet, but I really have to look (goes away at 6-7).
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post #730 of 1138 Old 07-25-2014, 12:51 PM
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After running some basic calibration on this set (just visual test patterns, from lagom lcd) I'm happy to find that it all looks to be very close to perfect. I nudged my gamma down to -2, which meant I had to bump my brightness up to 50 to avoid crush.

However, I did experiment with one new setting which has me a bit flumexed: color space. I had it on auto, but when I switched it to native the colors became noticeably richer and more saturated. I checked my test images, but didn't find any crush or distortion; it just seems like the colors are more saturated now. Is this the preferred mode?
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post #731 of 1138 Old 07-25-2014, 05:27 PM
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Is the 60" version of this tv that much worse? I heard it has a worse display (pentile)? I'm gonna be sitting 8-10 feet away would it make a difference?
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post #732 of 1138 Old 07-25-2014, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiamistiam View Post
After running some basic calibration on this set (just visual test patterns, from lagom lcd) I'm happy to find that it all looks to be very close to perfect. I nudged my gamma down to -2, which meant I had to bump my brightness up to 50 to avoid crush.
That sounds in the ballpark, depending on where you have Cell Light set. You should not be able to see any dithered pixels on a flat field Y'=16 black screen though. If you do, then you may need to reduce Brightness another tick or two, to completely erase those. A Y'=16 reference black screen should look completely blank.

Quote:
However, I did experiment with one new setting which has me a bit flumexed: color space. I had it on auto, but when I switched it to native the colors became noticeably richer and more saturated. I checked my test images, but didn't find any crush or distortion; it just seems like the colors are more saturated now. Is this the preferred mode?
The Native Color Space setting pushes more green (and possibly also some other colors), which will boost the luminance of the display a bit. Panasonic used to do that on their plasma TVs as well. It makes the grass look greener on golf courses, which the over-50 types like.

If you want accurate color decoding though, the Auto or Custom modes are best, with Color and Tint left at their defaults of 50 in the Movie Mode.

You can see the difference between Native and the other Color Space setting on color bars like this...



The green bar will get brighter in the Native Color Space. And the color patches will also look less uniform in the three RGB Only modes.

You should not leave patterns like this on the screen for too long btw, because static images will easily burn-in on these displays when they're new, esp. at high Cell Light settings.

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post #733 of 1138 Old 07-26-2014, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post
You should not leave patterns like this on the screen for too long btw, because static images will easily burn-in on these displays when they're new, esp. at high Cell Light settings.
You seem to be the only one that keeps saying this about the F5300. I own the 51", and I haven't seen anything that supports your repeated burn-in comments. Sure, when you keep a menu up for a bit you'll see some IR, but it is very short lived and doesn't resemble anything remotely called burn-in. Maybe your panel is defective because if anything, this Samsung seems less susceptible to IR than my VT60 or the ST60 I briefly owned before that (I actually returned the ST60 because it was an absolute IR magnet).
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post #734 of 1138 Old 07-26-2014, 07:22 AM
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You seem to be the only one that keeps saying this about the F5300. I own the 51", and I haven't seen anything that supports your repeated burn-in comments. Sure, when you keep a menu up for a bit you'll see some IR, but it is very short lived and doesn't resemble anything remotely called burn-in. Maybe your panel is defective because if anything, this Samsung seems less susceptible to IR than my VT60 or the ST60 I briefly owned before that (I actually returned the ST60 because it was an absolute IR magnet).
Same here, the only IR I have seen has been from the menu when adjusting picture settings. I get IR from that stupid hdmi box that pops up on the right upper corner of the screen when accessing the menu. I can't believe samsung would over look something that would be so easy to fix.
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post #735 of 1138 Old 07-26-2014, 10:00 AM
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ADU:

Golf mode...great, I'll keep that in mind when I start watching golf.

I bumped back to auto for now. I got my secret of kells BD out first, and the extra color of native really made it pop, but once I put in the tree of life and the dark knight, I started to notice the color taking on an strange, artificial look. Went back to auto...everything looks good, albeit less saturated. After some extra googling I found this thread here, which discusses the color space setting on samsung TV's:

Samsung plasma owners: Auto vs Native Color Space

P.S.

If you haven't seen secret of kells, you are missing out: it's stunning on a plasma, and has a unique style unlike anything else out there.
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post #736 of 1138 Old 07-26-2014, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by schrock View Post
Same here, the only IR I have seen has been from the menu when adjusting picture settings. I get IR from that stupid hdmi box that pops up on the right upper corner of the screen when accessing the menu. I can't believe samsung would over look something that would be so easy to fix.
Yeah. I get some IR from channel logos, game huds, PC browser etc. but its very faint and fades relatively quickly. I have to actively look for it on a solid color background to see it. That high contrast HDMI menu box however is terrible. IR shows up quickly and takes quite a while to fade. I felt compelled to race through the menu to make adjustments! Some bad design there in my opinion.
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post #737 of 1138 Old 07-26-2014, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by djsketchie View Post
You seem to be the only one that keeps saying this about the F5300. I own the 51", and I haven't seen anything that supports your repeated burn-in comments. Sure, when you keep a menu up for a bit you'll see some IR, but it is very short lived and doesn't resemble anything remotely called burn-in. Maybe your panel is defective because if anything, this Samsung seems less susceptible to IR than my VT60 or the ST60 I briefly owned before that (I actually returned the ST60 because it was an absolute IR magnet).
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Originally Posted by schrock View Post
Same here, the only IR I have seen has been from the menu when adjusting picture settings. I get IR from that stupid hdmi box that pops up on the right upper corner of the screen when accessing the menu. I can't believe samsung would over look something that would be so easy to fix.
+1, as an avid gamer, I've found this set doesn't need any babying nor does it need to be treated like a Panasonic Plasma. Now I wouldn't go out of my way to leave the pause screen or top menu of a movie on the screen for hours but I can use my TV normally and treat it like a LCD without any stubborn IR that won't go away.


Forget scrolling bars, pixel flippers, screen washes, etc... with this set, none of that is needed (simply vary content to rid the set of any lasting IR).


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post #738 of 1138 Old 07-26-2014, 01:37 PM
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Based on my experience, the default (factory) picture settings on the 51F5300BF are substantially improved over the AF. Perhaps I should say radically improved. The out-of-box settings on my AF model (panel US01) were tragic (judging by naked eye) in both standard and movie modes. So I plugged in the settings suggested by Dan on P.1 of this thread and found them far superior.

Two months later my AF went to that big home theater in the sky, and Samsung replaced it with a BF model (panel TS02). To my surprise, I found that the factory settings looked much better. Now I use the default presets with tweaks to contrast/brightness/color as determined using Disney WOW. (I also choose Warm 1 and Gamma -1 based on personal prefs.)

My point being: I suspect there are significant differences between AF and BF attributal to the panels installed and/or the firmware. What might be instructive for one model might or might not apply to the other.

Last edited by Nikwasi; 07-26-2014 at 01:55 PM.
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post #739 of 1138 Old 07-26-2014, 05:51 PM
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Quick question guys, I am new to this forum and a first time plasma owner (PN51F5350AFXZA). What are the defaults for your service menu? (Press mute, 7, 3, 7, Enter).I know MRT is total TV hours and the rest is a mystery. Not really looking to change anything- just curious. Thanks in advance.
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post #740 of 1138 Old 07-27-2014, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by traps View Post
Is the 60" version of this tv that much worse? I heard it has a worse display (pentile)? I'm gonna be sitting 8-10 feet away would it make a difference?
It unfortunately actually is that much of a problem. It was such a shame because the 60" was the perfect size/price ratio for me. Reading up on the display I made a special point to set aside an entire day to go to the local best buy and sears (for different calibrations and different perma running videos) to check out if the pentile display was a deal breaker or not. Despite what their web pages told me they also had display 51"s available so I could compare the 2 and the pentile indeed turn out to be a deal breaker. In the store I had to back up to at least 12 feet before I could not see the pixels anymore. Granted I have pretty good vision for color details, but still, the way the pixels are structured (honeycombed rectangles instead of squares) it was easy for me to see the variant colors in between the "lines" when I was closer than 10 feet. I didn't have that problem on the 75" TVs that were to the right of me at that time, so unfortunately the structure is a large issue. On top of that, because the picture didn't have truely squared ratios, I personally could detect a slight bit of fuzziness to the picture compared to the 60"s on my left, regardless of the fact that they were LCDs.

Even if you're planning on sitting 15 feet away, I still would recommend going in person to see the structure yourself so that you can decide if you need to bite the bullet for the 64" or just go LCD.
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post #741 of 1138 Old 07-27-2014, 12:56 PM
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Sorry to disappear there for a bit, but I was out F5300 huntin again. And still came up empty. I'm enjoyin the 43F4500 though. These are very nice TVs, after they've been tweaked a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djsketchie View Post
You seem to be the only one that keeps saying this about the F5300. I own the 51", and I haven't seen anything that supports your repeated burn-in comments. Sure, when you keep a menu up for a bit you'll see some IR, but it is very short lived and doesn't resemble anything remotely called burn-in. Maybe your panel is defective because if anything, this Samsung seems less susceptible to IR than my VT60 or the ST60 I briefly owned before that (I actually returned the ST60 because it was an absolute IR magnet).
IR and burn-in are two different things, djsketchie.

I agree that the IR is minimal on these TVs, and not really an issue. The same can't be said of burn-in. The open-box 43F4500 that I'm currently evaluating only had 30 hours of use on it, and there were already subtle indications of burn-in visible on white screens.

The forum Glossary doesn't do a very good job of explaining the differences between the temporary IR effects that you and others are talking about, and the permanent burn-in issues that I'm referring to. The two issues aren't related.

There's a fairly good explanation of burn-in here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_burn-in

A couple salient passages...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia/Screen burn-in
With phosphor-based electronic displays (for example CRT-type computer monitors or plasma displays), non-uniform use of pixels, such as prolonged display of non-moving images (text or graphics), gaming, or certain broadcasts with tickers and flags, can create a permanent ghost-like image of these objects or otherwise degrade image quality. This is because the phosphor compounds which emit light to produce images lose their luminance with use. Uneven usage results in uneven light output over time, and in severe cases can create a ghost image of previous content.
Unlike IR, the "ghost-like" image that is left by burn-in will actually be darker than the rest of the screen, rather than lighter, and will look more like a "shadow" of the bright image, logo, screen bug, etc. that was being displayed.

Here's an extreme example of what I mean on the picture tube of a Pac Man video game...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f6...p/IMG_8549.jpg

The bright areas of the game are burned in as dark shadows on the screen. The burn-in is so extreme in the above example, that you can actually see it with tube turned off!

Here's an explanation of the difference between IR (aka "transient image persistence"), and burn-in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia/Screen burn-in
Both plasma-type and LCD-type displays exhibit a similar phenomenon called transient image persistence, which is sometimes confused with screen burn but is not permanent. In the case of plasma-type displays, transient image persistence is caused by charge build-up in the pixel cells (not cumulative luminance degradation as with burn-in), which can be seen sometimes when a bright image that was set against a dark background is replaced by a dark background only; this image retention is usually released once a typical-brightness image is displayed and does not inhibit the display's typical viewing image quality.
As explained above, the temporary IR that most of you are a referring to is generally only visible on a dark screen, after a bright image is displayed. Burn-in is exactly the opposite, and is easiest to see on a flat white or light gray screen. And unlike IR, it is for most intents and purposes, permanent.

The risks of screen burn-in are greatest when the TV is new, because that's when the phosphors will have their most precipitious drop in brightness... when they are first illuminated. As the phosphors begin to fade over time, through use, the risks of bad burn-in decrease. This is why alot of folks will run "slides" to accelerate the initial fading of the phosphors more uniformly, and get them to a point where they're somewhat less susceptible to uneven burn-in.

The risk of burn-in never goes completely away though. There is still a small risk of burn-in if a bright image is left on the screen, even after the TV has been used for a long time.

This is still one of my biggest mental blocks with plasma TVs, because I like to watch alot of letterboxed 2.35 ratio widescreen content, which will obviously fade/wear down the brightness of the phosphors in the center of the screen faster than the top and bottom, where the black bars are.

Plasma is definitely my preference though over LCD and LED, and even CRT at this point. The color, contrast, detail, and motion quality on these displays is simply fantastic, once the settings have been dialed in a little better. So I may just have to make due with with some burn-in in the center of the screen.

If I get one of these TVs though (probably either a 51F5300 or the 768p 43F4500), then I'll try to minimize my viewing of letterboxed and pillarboxed content during the initial break-in period, and watch mostly full screen content. That may help to reduce the risks of the letterboxed images burning-in later on.

I've even contemplated buying more than one plasma TV, so I can have one for the letterboxed content (and can just let it burn-in), and another TV for everything else. That's not a very practical solution on my current budget though.

ADU

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post #742 of 1138 Old 07-27-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Nikwasi View Post
How many of you are thinking of buying a second set for "backup" in light of Samsung's decision to suspend plasma production? I am, even though the notion strikes me as rather foolhardy. I really can't afford to buy a spare TV right now.
See my last comment above.

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post #743 of 1138 Old 07-27-2014, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by StromChaser View Post
hey do you guys think this would be a good T.V to replace with current set which is a Panasonic Plasma 42 inch 720p?
How old is the Panny?

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post #744 of 1138 Old 07-27-2014, 01:55 PM
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See my last comment above.
ADU, last week I negotiated a good deal on an open box 51F5300BF from Best Buy ... $455 tax and shipping included. So, you might want to keep an eye on BB deals in your area since you're in the market.

I made the purchase sight-unseen and deferred shipping until Aug. 2, so I have yet to evaluate the condition of the set. If it's not satisfactory, I'll just send it back. BTW, Best Buy offers full warranty and return service on open box TVs.
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post #745 of 1138 Old 07-27-2014, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post
Sorry to disappear there for a bit, but I was out F5300 huntin again. And still came up empty. I'm enjoyin the 43F4500 though. These are very nice TVs, after they've been tweaked a little.



IR and burn-in are two different things, djsketchie.

I agree that the IR is minimal on these TVs, and not really an issue. The same can't be said of burn-in. The open-box 43F4500 that I'm currently evaluating only had 30 hours of use on it, and there were already subtle indications of burn-in visible on white screens.

The forum Glossary doesn't do a very good job of explaining the differences between the temporary IR effects that you and others are talking about, and the permanent burn-in issues that I'm referring to. The two issues aren't related.

There's a fairly good explanation of burn-in here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_burn-in

A couple salient passages...



Unlike IR, the "ghost-like" image that is left by burn-in will actually be darker than the rest of the screen, rather than lighter, and will look more like a "shadow" of the bright image, logo, screen bug, etc. that was being displayed.

Here's an extreme example of what I mean on the picture tube of a Pac Man video game...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f6...p/IMG_8549.jpg

The bright areas of the game are burned in as dark shadows on the screen. The burn-in is so extreme in the above example, that you can actually see it with tube turned off!

Here's an explanation of the difference between IR (aka "transient image persistence"), and burn-in...



As explained above, the temporary IR that most of you are a referring to is generally only visible on a dark screen, after a bright image is displayed. Burn-in is exactly the opposite, and is easiest to see on a flat white or light gray screen. And unlike IR, it is for most intents and purposes, permanent.

The risks of screen burn-in are greatest when the TV is new, because that's when the phosphors will have their most precipitious drop in brightness... when they are first illuminated. As the phosphors begin to fade over time, through use, the risks of bad burn-in decrease. This is why alot of folks will run "slides" to accelerate the initial fading of the phosphors more uniformly, and get them to a point where they're somewhat less susceptible to uneven burn-in.

The risk of burn-in never goes completely away though. There is still a small risk of burn-in if a bright image is left on the screen, even after the TV has been used for a long time.

This is still one of my biggest mental blocks with plasma TVs, because I like to watch alot of letterboxed 2.35 ratio widescreen content, which will obviously fade/wear down the brightness of the phosphors in the center of the screen faster than the top and bottom, where the black bars are.

Plasma is definitely my preference though over LCD and LED, and even CRT at this point. The color, contrast, detail, and motion quality on these displays is simply fantastic, once the settings have been dialed in a little better. So I may just have to make due with with some burn-in in the center of the screen.

If I get one of these TVs though (probably either a 51F5300 or the 768p 43F4500), then I'll try to minimize my viewing of letterboxed and pillarboxed content during the initial break-in period, and watch mostly full screen content. That may help to reduce the risks of the letterboxed images burning-in later on.

I've even contemplated buying more than one plasma TV, so I can have one for the letterboxed content (and can just let it burn-in), and another TV for everything else. That's not a very practical solution on my current budget though.
Thanks for the lecture, professor!

I kind of feel bad that you spent all that time on that post for no reason, though. To each their own...
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post #746 of 1138 Old 07-27-2014, 03:14 PM
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Can someone PLEASE post a screen shot of their service menu?? Either 51 A/B FW or 61 will suffice. Thank you very much.
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post #747 of 1138 Old 07-27-2014, 04:04 PM
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You seem to be the only one that keeps saying this about the F5300. I own the 51", and I haven't seen anything that supports your repeated burn-in comments. Sure, when you keep a menu up for a bit you'll see some IR, but it is very short lived and doesn't resemble anything remotely called burn-in. Maybe your panel is defective because if anything, this Samsung seems less susceptible to IR than my VT60 or the ST60 I briefly owned before that (I actually returned the ST60 because it was an absolute IR magnet).
Agree, I have both 4500 and 5300 and dont baby them. Neither has any sign of any kind of burn in. Fleeting IR? Sure, but when you see it, its gone after 5 seconds or so.
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post #748 of 1138 Old 07-27-2014, 08:17 PM
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ADU, last week I negotiated a good deal on an open box 51F5300BF from Best Buy.
The only problem I (personally) would have with an open box item like this is that it usually means it was returned by someone who wasn't happy and the store doesn't think there's anything wrong with it. You might get lucky, but check carefully for any pink tints at the sides or along the bottom before your trial period is up, since that seems to be the biggest issue.
That said, I have a house full of open box and B-stock electronics that serve me very well.

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #749 of 1138 Old 07-27-2014, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
The only problem I (personally) would have with an open box item like this is that it usually means it was returned by someone who wasn't happy and the store doesn't think there's anything wrong with it. You might get lucky, but check carefully for any pink tints at the sides or along the bottom before your trial period is up, since that seems to be the biggest issue.
That said, I have a house full of open box and B-stock electronics that serve me very well.
Oh, I will put it through all possible paces, don't worry. Since I already own one I know what to look for. If there is a problem I might opt for repair or replacement under warranty rather than return the set. The store's Geek Squad guy indicated that plasmas are most often returned because buyers find them too reflective, and that makes sense to me.

Last edited by Nikwasi; 07-27-2014 at 11:03 PM.
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post #750 of 1138 Old 07-27-2014, 11:04 PM
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It unfortunately actually is that much of a problem. It was such a shame because the 60" was the perfect size/price ratio for me. Reading up on the display I made a special point to set aside an entire day to go to the local best buy and sears (for different calibrations and different perma running videos) to check out if the pentile display was a deal breaker or not. Despite what their web pages told me they also had display 51"s available so I could compare the 2 and the pentile indeed turn out to be a deal breaker. In the store I had to back up to at least 12 feet before I could not see the pixels anymore. Granted I have pretty good vision for color details, but still, the way the pixels are structured (honeycombed rectangles instead of squares) it was easy for me to see the variant colors in between the "lines" when I was closer than 10 feet. I didn't have that problem on the 75" TVs that were to the right of me at that time, so unfortunately the structure is a large issue. On top of that, because the picture didn't have truely squared ratios, I personally could detect a slight bit of fuzziness to the picture compared to the 60"s on my left, regardless of the fact that they were LCDs.

Even if you're planning on sitting 15 feet away, I still would recommend going in person to see the structure yourself so that you can decide if you need to bite the bullet for the 64" or just go LCD.
Couldn't disagree more. As someone who actually owns this set, you can't see pixels on this at 12', unless you are using binoculars.
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