Samsung PN51F5300 – What a little gem! - i1Pro Calibration results inside - Page 29 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #841 of 1750 Old 08-07-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Nikwasi View Post
The gamma setting seems to have an effect. At gamma -3 my screen goes uniformly black, and at +3 the lines dissolve into that I would call static. Hmmm...
Raising gamma causes the dithering pattern you are mentioning. I'm assuming that's because the gamma is pushing the level 1 black above the absolute black threshold. However, reducing it down to -3 doesn't affect the lines at all. Nor does adjusting the brightness, FYI.

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Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Also, I just did a quick test and I actually do not observe an increase in black levels with CS turned on. Are you sure you set your brightness level correctly with CS turned on? If it is too high, then you get a pronounced green dithering pattern on a black screen with increased black levels. However, if you lower brightness to ~ 46-48, you will find a setting where the green dithering cuts out and you get great black levels. You should still not clip level 1 black. Comparing CS on v/s off, I measure the same ~ 0.005fL black level.
Actually, I'm not sure. I'll give it another shot and see. That being said, I don't have a meter, so I'll just have to eyeball it.

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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
I have the black wavy lines on my set too.

This review explains it...
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/pn64h...1403143657.htm
Whew...well, that's a load off. I did notice last night that turning dark room optimizer off seemed to make the lines a bit less noticeable, though they are still there. That being said, as long as they are supposed to be there, I'm really not concerned: even during dark scenes, they are pretty much invisible. The only time I can see there is when the screen -- and room -- is totally black. That being said, I still have my faintly glowing left edge...but damn, it's such a minor thing...hmmm...

[
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Can you test with black optimizer set to auto? According to this post he got better blacks and brighter whites with black optimizer set to auto instead of dark room. I've never seen anyone get those results before.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...l#post26295761
I experimented with this before, and couldn't see any difference (ie., in blackout conditions, 'auto' looks the same as 'dark room'). I don't have a meter, so I can't measure it for certain.

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Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Currently I have both Black Tone and Black Optimizer to OFF. The reason for the latter is that I've noticed an artifact that shows up when a bright image/window is displayed rapidly over an all black screen. Black optimizer essentially results in a longer delay for pixels to turn back on from full black and as a result, I can sometimes see individual pixels that are still waiting to turn on. The lag is usually ~0.5-1s at most. It isn't very noticeable but if you display an all black screen and then hit the TV menu button to bring up the menu, it is easy to see this effect. I first noticed it when viewing the intro titles in a movie. I should mention though, that this is a bit exacerbated on my set since I dropped Vs on the panel to alleviate my red-tint issue to some extent.

I'll try out Black optimizer to Auto when I get the chance though I don't envision myself using it for the reasons listed above.
I've seen that same effect, though damn, you've seen pixels take up to a second to come back on? On mine it's maybe 100-200ms tops. Personally, I don't mind it, nor do I see it very often (seems like I saw it more when I was first using the set; though I haven't put many hours on it yet). Having had a gray-blacks LCD for the last 5 years, I'm still reveling in having the deepest blacks I can coax out of this set. Next up, bias lighting...
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post #842 of 1750 Old 08-07-2014, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tiamistiam View Post
Whew...well, that's a load off. I did notice last night that turning dark room optimizer off seemed to make the lines a bit less noticeable, though they are still there. That being said, as long as they are supposed to be there, I'm really not concerned: even during dark scenes, they are pretty much invisible. The only time I can see there is when the screen -- and room -- is totally black. That being said, I still have my faintly glowing left edge...but damn, it's such a minor thing...hmmm...
I took a picture with my DSLR last night and with Black optimizer and Black tone OFF, my screen was uniformly gray (due to longer exposure) with absolutely no lines or cloudiness. I guess the pentile display has some redeeming feature to it given the issues with red-tint on white images

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I've seen that same effect, though damn, you've seen pixels take up to a second to come back on? On mine it's maybe 100-200ms tops. Personally, I don't mind it, nor do I see it very often (seems like I saw it more when I was first using the set; though I haven't put many hours on it yet). Having had a gray-blacks LCD for the last 5 years, I'm still reveling in having the deepest blacks I can coax out of this set. Next up, bias lighting...
Maybe 1s is an exaggeration. But certainly up to 0.5s...of course, most come on in 100-200ms, but I'll see a couple of stray pixels that take a bit longer. When I had dropped Ve on my panel, this definitely got worse. Right now I'm at stock Ve but low Vs and it isn't too bad with black optimizer on. I'm still not sure what advantage black optimizer is really providing me with so I just keep both optimizer and black tone OFF.
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post #843 of 1750 Old 08-07-2014, 03:38 PM
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When I had dropped Ve on my panel, this definitely got worse. Right now I'm at stock Ve but low Vs and it isn't too bad with black optimizer on.
Ve? Vs?

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post #844 of 1750 Old 08-07-2014, 03:49 PM
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Ve? Vs?

Ah, I opened up my panel and tried tweaking a few voltages via potentiometers to try and alleviate the red tint on my screen. Ve and Vs are two voltage settings that can be tweaked.
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post #845 of 1750 Old 08-07-2014, 04:53 PM
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Interesting. I saw a thread somewhere on AVforums where people were getting in to their samsung plasmas and adjusting a few pots to get better MLL readings...did your tweaks affect your black level at all, or just the tint?
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post #846 of 1750 Old 08-07-2014, 08:34 PM
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I've had my PN51F5300 up and running since 7/29 and I'm still astonished with the PQ. By the way the TV has a July 2014 build date. I wasn't expecting LCD like clarity that Samsung plasmas are known for since this is a bare bones model but to my delight it's just as clear as my E7000. In fact it's right up there with my E7000 except for a tad less video processes prowess (SD performance is still very good) and of course the biggie, the panel has no filtering whatsoever against light. Uniformity is perfect with no hint of banning with panning shots. Color depth out of the box in movie mode looks great. I feel like I should be in prison for theft for getting such outstanding PQ for $550. I'm getting the Vizio LT Costar (fingers crossed that I'll like it) tomorrow so for $600 it'll become a smart TV.

Lets start from the start, for some reason I had it in my head that I should have a LCD television for my bedroom. The last couple of years I've been parading a number of them to my bedroom trying to find one that I could stomach. One that I didn't want to throw out the window after watching something on my E7000. The 2014 Vizio 49" M series was the last straw, a highly regarded TV according to a number of professional reviewers. I've coveted this television since the 2014 CES and was further enticed by the positive reviews. What a freakin joke, it's an absolute obscenity that cnet gave the F5300 a 7 for PQ while the M series got a 8. I'm just grateful that I don't have to deal with blooming, DSE, sub-par video processing, gimmicky black levels, and horrible motion resolution.

The F5300 has great whites/highlights that puts most LCD panels to shame in high contrast scenes as everything dims with a LCD when it comes to shadows, sure full screen whites look grayish but it has a pleasing look to my eyes since it's so uniform.

If you have a light controlled environment and don't want to spend 3 times as much for a F8500 then get this little gem while you still can. I'm still hopeful that I can upgrade to a PN64F8500 but first I need to sell my E7000 which I'm having a hard time doing. Trust me, I would love to have a 70" panel but I'm very, very skeptical that the P series won't be too much of a step down in PQ compared to the F8500.

One last thing, the buzzing on my TV is well within normal buzzing levels, it's for all practical purposes a non issue.
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post #847 of 1750 Old 08-07-2014, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
I'm still not sure what advantage black optimizer is really providing me with so I just keep both optimizer and black tone OFF.
Black optimizer set to to dark room provides lower black levels in low light/dim scenes. Do you not see this affect?
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post #848 of 1750 Old 08-08-2014, 12:57 AM
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Interesting. I saw a thread somewhere on AVforums where people were getting in to their samsung plasmas and adjusting a few pots to get better MLL readings...did your tweaks affect your black level at all, or just the tint?
Unfortunately I didn't receive my meter till after I'd done the tweaks so I don't know if I did improve black levels. I think I may have by a small amount.

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Black optimizer set to to dark room provides lower black levels in low light/dim scenes. Do you not see this affect?
That's exactly right. Thanks...I might have confused myself during a previous run. As it turns out, the letterbox regions are equally black for both settings, but blacks within other parts of the scenes do show a difference.

I did test in a dark scene from Batman begins, and I measured 0.006fL blacks within the scene with Black Optimizer off and 0.002fL with Black Optimizer set to Dark. I am quite amazed with those numbers. I was under the impression that the F8500 is supposed to have way superior black levels, but from reviews I've read, with black optimizer, the F8500 also gets to around 0.002fL or a smidgen below that. Not sure if my Voltage tweaks have something to do with this. Also, this is with CinemaSmooth on and 23pHz.
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post #849 of 1750 Old 08-08-2014, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
I took a picture with my DSLR last night and with Black optimizer and Black tone OFF, my screen was uniformly gray (due to longer exposure) with absolutely no lines or cloudiness. I guess the pentile display has some redeeming feature to it given the issues with red-tint on white images
Just re-did this with Black Optimizer set to Dark Room and while the black levels dropped, the screen was still very uniform with no line patterns visible even with a 1s exposure. Perhaps this is something that shows up on the 51" panel and not on the 60" panel.
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post #850 of 1750 Old 08-08-2014, 02:23 AM
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Just re-did this with Black Optimizer set to Dark Room and while the black levels dropped, the screen was still very uniform with no line patterns visible even with a 1s exposure. Perhaps this is something that shows up on the 51" panel and not on the 60" panel.
There is very obvious horizontal lines within black on my 60 incher, I don't see how you could miss it.

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I did test in a dark scene from Batman begins, and I measured 0.006fL blacks within the scene with Black Optimizer off and 0.002fL with Black Optimizer set to Dark. I am quite amazed with those numbers.
If this set does .002 fL I don't even think I would be satisfied with a Kuro. While blacks do look great with mixed content, in low light it still has an annoying glow. I can't wait for OLED to drop in price.
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post #851 of 1750 Old 08-08-2014, 11:00 AM
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There is very obvious horizontal lines within black on my 60 incher, I don't see how you could miss it.


If this set does .002 fL I don't even think I would be satisfied with a Kuro. While blacks do look great with mixed content, in low light it still has an annoying glow. I can't wait for OLED to drop in price.
I can try posting the pics later today if you'd like. It doesn't seem to be an issue on my set. I'll set my dslr on a tripod and take a long exposure shot just to be sure.

With regards to black levels, on my set, when I measure 0.002 fL, the glow is very faint in a pitch black room. 0.005-0.006fL definitely has a much more pronounced glow. The caveat here is that my voltage tweaking could have dropped black levels as I dropped Vs substantially - down from 208V to 197V. Unfortunately it's risky to have the meter draped on the tv with the back open and turned on, so I haven't been able to measure black levels with default Vs on my set. For now, I'd go by black level measurements on non-tweaked panels. I will say though, that 0.002fL measurements on my set do seem legit as I watched a movie last night in pitch black conditions, and the black level was very impressive.
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post #852 of 1750 Old 08-08-2014, 12:37 PM
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mine doesn't go below 0.005 fL with black optimizer set to dark room... I think your numbers are much lower due to voltage tweaks (which likely void any warranties)

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post #853 of 1750 Old 08-08-2014, 05:34 PM
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Watching preseason football on my 51F5300B, satisfaction rating ★★★★★. This TV handles motion flawlessly and the depth is exceptional. Let the games begin!

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feel like I should be in prison for theft for getting such outstanding PQ for $550. I'm getting the Vizio LT Costar (fingers crossed that I'll like it) tomorrow so for $600 it'll become a smart TV.
what made you choose the LT costar over the Roku stick, or the Roku 3?

sadly... i didn't get as much money as i thought i was, and i NEED a computer for school, so i won't be able to get my PN52F5300 till January TT_TT. i have a feeling i won't be able to get one by then.. i am so bumbed, because it is like the LAST good plasma in my price Range
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post #855 of 1750 Old 08-09-2014, 05:56 AM
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mine doesn't go below 0.005 fL with black optimizer set to dark room... I think your numbers are much lower due to voltage tweaks (which likely void any warranties)
Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, it is likely that the voltage tweak is responsible for improved black levels. However, no warranty issues as there is no way to tell and I can easily pop the back off and reset voltages if needed.
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post #856 of 1750 Old 08-09-2014, 09:58 AM
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what made you choose the LT costar over the Roku stick, or the Roku 3?

sadly... i didn't get as much money as i thought i was, and i NEED a computer for school, so i won't be able to get my PN52F5300 till January TT_TT. i have a feeling i won't be able to get one by then.. i am so bumbed, because it is like the LAST good plasma in my price Range
I actually tried the Roku stick and it performed well but I didn't like having to deal with two remotes (it's RF, not IR) and the roku remote was a ergonomic nightmare since the OK button is not located in the center of the navigation thingy.

I liked the design of the Vizio Costar and it had the 3 required apps, Netflix, Vudu, Amazon, but the processor is a bit slow and the Amazon app is the ancient version and it's glitchity. Sort of the theme of Vizio in general, the promise getting more for your money but not really in my experiences.

So I'll be returning it and giving the the Roku LT a go. It only has 720p but that shouldn't be much of an issue with a 51" screen and I'll be able to control it with my Harmony remote. Why not the Roku 3? Too much glossy black plastic, I sort of have OCD when it comes to cheap plastic which is what I don't like about the F5500 but not enough to to spend 3 times as much on the F8500. I hope, hopefully the return period will expire without any rash impulses on my part.

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post #857 of 1750 Old 08-09-2014, 09:43 PM
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Since i won't be able to get a TV till January.... what do you guys think the chances are that the PN51F5300 will still be in stock? if they are sold out, i will either have to Go LG plasma, or LCD. it is 2014! you think obtaining a Cinema smooth 24p tv with good colors wouldn't be so hard :P
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post #858 of 1750 Old 08-09-2014, 10:15 PM
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There is very obvious horizontal lines within black on my 60 incher, I don't see how you could miss it.


If this set does .002 fL I don't even think I would be satisfied with a Kuro. While blacks do look great with mixed content, in low light it still has an annoying glow. I can't wait for OLED to drop in price.
So here are the pics I promised. One is with BO at Dark, CinemaSmooth ON, 24p display rate and 0.002fL measured by my Colormunki Display. The other is for a measured black level of 0.005fL

Camera settings were: f/2.8, ISO 1600, 24mm focal length, 0.8 second exposure. I also added a +3 Exposure tweak to the RAW image data in Photoshop as the screen glow was too dim to view in the resulting jpeg otherwise.

Two things to note:

1) 0.002 fL has a pronounced impact on black level. The camera settings above are very aggressive. In reality, with these black levels, any scene with even a little bit of white/bright portions will cause your iris to adjust and the blacks to look pitch black. Only in extremely dim scenes will the blacks have a slight glow with the screen discernible from the bezel/rest of the room. Glow is definitely more pronounced at 0.005fL. At 0.005fL, the blacks do not completely melt into the background in mid to low brightness scenes but will still tend to do so in very bright scenes.

2) On my PN60f5300, there is no line pattern with BO enabled. Even for this long exposure, there isn't the slightest sign of a line pattern or any black non-uniformity.

As I've mentioned earlier, achieving 0.002fL on my set could be a result of me dropping my panel Vs voltage from 208V to 197V. I cannot verify this, so for now we should assume that the default black level with CinemaSmooth is at least ~ 0.005fL on this set. I must say that 0.002fL is really spectacular. Watching scenes from Gravity in a pitch black room was a real treat. The contrast is spectacular and it almost felt OLED like in terms of the black levels and the pop to the images.

Edit - I added a photo of a scene from Casino Royale that I use to test black levels and black crush. Due to lower dynamic range of DSLR compared to my eye, I exposed the photograph to try to match the lower brightness parts of the image. You can see how the blacks melt completely into the background here.

Ignore the green spots in the image. Those are reflections of the LED display on my microwave on the opposite wall to the TV.
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post #859 of 1750 Old 08-10-2014, 09:25 AM
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Roku sparkles

Has anyone else had an issue using their Roku 3 on this television? I have flashing white sparkles on both inputs, but my bluray player does not have it. I have tried swiching hdmi cables, but that does not help. Any help would be appreciated.
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post #860 of 1750 Old 08-10-2014, 10:58 AM
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Has anyone else had an issue using their Roku 3 on this television? I have flashing white sparkles on both inputs, but my bluray player does not have it. I have tried swiching hdmi cables, but that does not help. Any help would be appreciated.


Is the Roku brand new. Have you tried testing it on another set.
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post #861 of 1750 Old 08-10-2014, 11:46 AM
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Has anyone else had an issue using their Roku 3 on this television? I have flashing white sparkles on both inputs, but my bluray player does not have it. I have tried swiching hdmi cables, but that does not help. Any help would be appreciated.
We use a Roku 3 that I bought a month or so after we got our PN51F5300. We've had no issues.
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post #862 of 1750 Old 08-10-2014, 01:23 PM
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If you want to admire the picture quality of your F5300 check out a few minutes of the PGA Championship on CBS (1080i). Though I'm not a golf fan, it makes a nice showcase for HD plasma due to the natural lighting, color contrasts, light/shadow and motion tracking.

Edit: This is also good content for evaluating skin tones, since lighting is consistent and the golfers aren't wearing TV makeup.
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post #863 of 1750 Old 08-10-2014, 01:55 PM
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If you want to admire the picture quality of your F5300 check out a few minutes of the PGA Championship on CBS (1080i). Though I'm not a golf fan, it makes a nice showcase for HD plasma due to the natural lighting, color contrasts, light/shadow and motion tracking.
Great points, and I would add I'm not noticing any banding issues either.

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post #864 of 1750 Old 08-10-2014, 04:56 PM
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I think I see why some have an issue with plasmas giving off too much heat as my PN51F5500 emanates much more heat than my PN60E7000. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it but I'm curious as to why.

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post #865 of 1750 Old 08-10-2014, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
I think I see why some have an issue with plasmas giving off too much heat as my PN51F5500 emanates much more heat than my PN60E7000. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it but I'm curious as to why.
The 51F5300 puts out a good bit of heat off the screen and especially on the rear top left and right. It will def help a cold room! It gets a lot warmer than its 720p brother of the same size.
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post #866 of 1750 Old 08-10-2014, 07:48 PM
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The 51F5300 puts out a good bit of heat off the screen and especially on the rear top left and right. It will def help a cold room! It gets a lot warmer than its 720p brother of the same size.
I was surprised that our PN51F5300 is no warmer than it is. A friend has an older 42" LCD that seems to put off more heat than our Samsung plasma.

We keep our house fairly cool in the winter, so an extra degree will be welcome.
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post #867 of 1750 Old 08-10-2014, 09:18 PM
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I'm still waiting to hear the buzz. I've had three 51F5300s in the house now and I have yet to hear any panel buzz, even with an all-white screen. Maybe my high-frequency hearing has deteriorated to the point that it's out of my range.
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post #868 of 1750 Old 08-11-2014, 12:11 PM
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I am very confused about this TV set. I want a set good for movies and gaming. I read reviews this set is stellar but I have also read its not good for gaming. Is it not good out of the box until calibrated or regardless its not good for gaming. I read it has serious motion blur. Any input is appreciated.
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post #869 of 1750 Old 08-11-2014, 03:39 PM
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I am very confused about this TV set. I want a set good for movies and gaming. I read reviews this set is stellar but I have also read its not good for gaming. Is it not good out of the box until calibrated or regardless its not good for gaming. I read it has serious motion blur. Any input is appreciated.
motion blur? On this set? Could you link to the article(s) stating this? One of the main features of Plasma panels is the lack of motion blur that you find on LCD/LED sets. I think this set would be pretty good for gaming. It has ~30ms lag in Game mode from what has been measured by a few folks. Unless you are a highly competitive gamer who requires single digit lag, this delay is likely going to be imperceptible.
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post #870 of 1750 Old 08-11-2014, 06:40 PM
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I could swear I read it somewhere. Thank you for answering my question of its ability to be good for gaming. I am in need of a TV under $625 and this TV seems to fit the bill. I have concerns of it being not bright enough and glare. I know of no other TV under this price, LED or Plasma that gets such great reviews. I do wish it had more HDMI ports. Do you or anyone else on this thread know of a good HDMI splitter with a small footprint?
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