Samsung PN51F5300 – What a little gem! - i1Pro Calibration results inside - Page 37 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1081 of 1384 Old 09-07-2014, 04:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 208
Readings are using the calibration/settings in the third link in my sig.
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1082 of 1384 Old 09-07-2014, 05:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Josh128's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 199 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilstein21 View Post
No IR problems with my A panel, but I do get a lot of white clipping with cell light at 20, no matter how I adjust brightness and contrast. It really depends on the source though. Film quality doesn't show it at all really.

A cell light of 16, brightness 49, contrast 95, and gamma at -2 gives me the best picture (to my eyes) for live sports.
Cell light shouldnt affect white clipping very much if at all, it doesnt on my set. If you set contrast at 93 or so on this set, you will not clip whites on any cell light setting, unless you jack the gamma way up, perhaps.
Josh128 is offline  
post #1083 of 1384 Old 09-07-2014, 08:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 234 Post(s)
Liked: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Lowering contrast below 95 can cause the 10-pt white balance/gamma controls to be displaced, but I believe the B models may not have that issue as DavidHir got his 51" b model pro calibrated and it did not have any issues with the contrast setting affecting the 10-pt controls.
Correct.

One thing I have noticed about the F5300B vs my previous Panasonic plasmas (ST30, VT60) is lack of ABL. The F5300B even though it is calibrated (with cell at 20) to about the same light output as the others were, its bright scenes seem brighter. I never really noticed ABL on those displays, but I do see what is a greater, sustained brightness in some scenes it seems like on this display.


Last edited by DavidHir; 09-07-2014 at 08:44 PM.
DavidHir is online now  
post #1084 of 1384 Old 09-07-2014, 08:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 234 Post(s)
Liked: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Can owners of the F5300 51 inch a and b models confirm whether they have the blue green tinted line at the bottom of the screen across the width of the whole panel, a few inches above the bottom edge of the screen? It's been getting more and more noticeable on my pn51f5300afxza and I'd like to ideally get a panel without it if possible but don't know if all 51 inch models a and b have it or not. Also, if the a models all have it but not the b models do I have any shot of getting a b model instead of another a model panel?
I would have to check for that, but I did have some very, very faint vertical lines on the center area of the screen which looks more like subtle dirty screen effect than anything else. They are noticeable on some patterns, but I don't see them during content at all.

DavidHir is online now  
post #1085 of 1384 Old 09-08-2014, 01:37 PM
Newbie
 
PHYS-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Everybody!

I purchased this TV back a couple of weeks ago when BB had a one-day sale. Great price, but the timing ... not so great.

I had already scheduled a complete renovation for my apartment (beginning the following week and was planning on purchasing the F5300B when my work was completed at the end of last month. Well, it took an extra week so finally I am off to pick-up the TV, now that the rain has stopped.

Background:
I am coming from a 32" LCD (an A550 series Samsung from over 5 years ago) and this will be my first, and apparently last, plasma. I will be using this TV has my primary viewing device for everything that I watch. I almost exclusively watch content, [which comprises ~75% TV, ~25% Movies, (and only Game, an XBox 360, once in a blue moon)], in the evening hours for about 4-5 hours on most days. I will be sitting about 8ft away, in a fairly light controlled room. No lights, no windows, directly in front of the screen, but the TV is mounted in front of a large bay window (with curtains drawn, of coarse).


To my questions:

I am interested in learning the best ways to check for any possible major defect just in case I need to have them re-order the TV before they all disappear for good.

Based on reading several of the threads related to the F5300 series (both A & B versions), my list currently includes:
1) stuck pixels
2) banding
3) "green lines"? - horizontal or vertical
4) pink-tint
5) buzz
[Please, correct and/or explain any and all, if needed.]

Although I am aware of answers related to some in the list, my specific concern is:

"How to check for these properly while adhering to the typical break-in-period restrictions (see below) on some of the settings?"

Typical Break-in-Period Restrictions
I know I should keep the Cell Light, Contrast and Brightness settings lower.

"But, what is the highest setting I should set the Cell Light, Contrast, and Brightness to?"

"How long should this Low-Setting break-in period be for these settings?

"Is there anything that might reveal itself once I go to the typical settings that can not be detected while I'm using the Break-in-Period Settings?"

Any comments are welcome for discussion.



Additional Comments:

After this initial break-in period, I will be able to settle on some sort of basic settings. Now, I have seen the posts by several who have calibration hardware and they seem to have approximately the same recommendations for out-of-the-box settings (Some fall within narrow ranges.)

F5300B

"Night" Settings
Picture Mode = Movie
Color Tone: Warm 2
Black Optimizer: Dark Room

Cell Light = 20
Contrast = 95-100
Brightness = 47-48
Sharpness = 0-12
Color = 50
Tint = 50
Color Space: Auto
Gamma: -1
Other Advanced Settings all off or zero

Additionally, I'll use the following alterations to the above for daylight hours.
"Daytime" Settings
Mode: Standard
Color Tone: Warm 1
Black Optimizer: Auto
Gamma: 0

[Note: - I do have a calibration Blu-ray, Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics from Joe Kane. I will go through this once the TV gets about 200 Hrs or so and fine tune these settings. I don't think I would consider a professional calibration, but If I thought I need more out of this TV, I would probably just break down and get a calibration system for myself after to use.]


Michael
PHYS-man is offline  
post #1086 of 1384 Old 09-08-2014, 01:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 208
I never cared for auto color space on my 51" a model. The default settings for custom look much better. The colors look dimmer and less saturated in auto and I've measured smaller errors at 100% saturation, 75% stimulus in custom vs. auto by a rather significant margin. I believe this is because auto features undersaturated colors at those measurement points. I can do a full saturation sweep in auto next time I calibrate to double check this if anyone is interested.
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
post #1087 of 1384 Old 09-08-2014, 02:46 PM
Senior Member
 
Josh128's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 199 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Correct.

One thing I have noticed about the F5300B vs my previous Panasonic plasmas (ST30, VT60) is lack of ABL. The F5300B even though it is calibrated (with cell at 20) to about the same light output as the others were, its bright scenes seem brighter. I never really noticed ABL on those displays, but I do see what is a greater, sustained brightness in some scenes it seems like on this display.
I can confirm the ABL is less noticeable on this set than even its 720p brother. Ive tested both using the white window drag test with a PC. Its extremely subtle.
Josh128 is offline  
post #1088 of 1384 Old 09-08-2014, 02:50 PM
Member
 
djsketchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHYS-man View Post
Additional Comments:

After this initial break-in period, I will be able to settle on some sort of basic settings. Now, I have seen the posts by several who have calibration hardware and they seem to have approximately the same recommendations for out-of-the-box settings (Some fall within narrow ranges.)

F5300B

"Night" Settings
Picture Mode = Movie
Color Tone: Warm 2
Black Optimizer: Dark Room

Cell Light = 20
Contrast = 95-100
Brightness = 47-48
Sharpness = 0-12
Color = 50
Tint = 50
Color Space: Auto
Gamma: -1
Other Advanced Settings all off or zero

Additionally, I'll use the following alterations to the above for daylight hours.
"Daytime" Settings
Mode: Standard
Color Tone: Warm 1
Black Optimizer: Auto
Gamma: 0

[Note: - I do have a calibration Blu-ray, Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics from Joe Kane. I will go through this once the TV gets about 200 Hrs or so and fine tune these settings. I don't think I would consider a professional calibration, but If I thought I need more out of this TV, I would probably just break down and get a calibration system for myself after to use.]


Michael
I'd stick with Warm1 unless you calibrate the set or get a professional to do it. Warm2 may be a closer starting point to calibrate from to get a flat 6500K, but as a default, the whites are just too dingy. I'd rather have color erring on the side of a little too much blue than a little too much red if I wasn't able to calibrate it out. Others will likely disagree, but put on a black and white movie like sin city and see for yourself. The rest of the settings are pretty much what others are using out of the box with great results.
djsketchie is offline  
post #1089 of 1384 Old 09-08-2014, 03:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
orion2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 434 Post(s)
Liked: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsketchie View Post
I'd stick with Warm1 unless you calibrate the set or get a professional to do it. Warm2 may be a closer starting point to calibrate from to get a flat 6500K, but as a default, the whites are just too dingy. I'd rather have color erring on the side of a little too much blue than a little too much red if I wasn't able to calibrate it out. Others will likely disagree, but put on a black and white movie like sin city and see for yourself. The rest of the settings are pretty much what others are using out of the box with great results.
It's personal preference but if you want to be as close to the rec 709 spec, you are better off with Warm2. There have been a few posts here with folks posting the default RGB balance and color temp for Warm 2 and it is much closer to the rec 709 spec compared to Warm 1 which is much cooler. If you prefer it, that's great, but in my experience it is further away from the reference spec by quite a bit.
StinDaWg likes this.
orion2001 is offline  
post #1090 of 1384 Old 09-08-2014, 04:14 PM
Member
 
djsketchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
It's personal preference but if you want to be as close to the rec 709 spec, you are better off with Warm2. There have been a few posts here with folks posting the default RGB balance and color temp for Warm 2 and it is much closer to the rec 709 spec compared to Warm 1 which is much cooler. If you prefer it, that's great, but in my experience it is further away from the reference spec by quite a bit.
Lucky for me I have a D-Nice calibrated 60VT60 to compare it to, and trust me, the 51F5300 has dingy whites using warm2 compared to the VT60. I may be more sensitive to warmer whites than cooler whites, or my set may just be different out of the box, but warm2 is a no go for me.
djsketchie is offline  
post #1091 of 1384 Old 09-08-2014, 04:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Josh128's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 199 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsketchie View Post
Lucky for me I have a D-Nice calibrated 60VT60 to compare it to, and trust me, the 51F5300 has dingy whites using warm2 compared to the VT60. I may be more sensitive to warmer whites than cooler whites, or my set may just be different out of the box, but warm2 is a no go for me.
Agree here. I have adjusted to using Warm1 and have used it to optimize the set using the AVS 709 and WOW discs and I think it looks great-- but so does standard temp, IMO. Warm 2 is an absolute no go-- the whites are dingy and everything else has a nasty yellowish/greenish tint to it that just doesnt look right. I know its hard to see by eye, but I just cant imagine a properly cal'ed set looking like that.
Josh128 is offline  
post #1092 of 1384 Old 09-08-2014, 09:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
orion2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 434 Post(s)
Liked: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsketchie View Post
Lucky for me I have a D-Nice calibrated 60VT60 to compare it to, and trust me, the 51F5300 has dingy whites using warm2 compared to the VT60. I may be more sensitive to warmer whites than cooler whites, or my set may just be different out of the box, but warm2 is a no go for me.
When you say D-Nice calibrated, do you mean he actually calibrated your set or are you talking about just using posted settings? If the latter, then I wouldn't call the set calibrated at all and it is a total crapshoot if you were closer to calibrated or further away. I believe Michael Chen or some other calibrator did a study on a number of sets and it turned out that those using posted "calibrated" settings ended up worse off and further away from the rec 709 spec than those just sticking with THX/Movie mode and default settings on their TVs.

On the other hand, my data point is using a Colormunki Display meter and I have compared default Movie mode + Warm 2, v/s my final calibrated settings and Warm 2 was closer than Warm1 by quite a bit. LastbutnottheLeast has also done a similar comparison with his set and ended up with the same result. So far, I know at least 2 other folks independent of me who have found Warm 2 to be closer to rec709 spec than Warm 1.

Without having a meter to check, I would still stand by my statement that Warm 2 is more likely to be closer to spec than Warm 1. But, as I said, it is a personal preference if you don't have a meter to get a calibrated display, so people are welcome to use whatever looks good to them. Without a meter on hand, it really doesn't matter which you choose. What matters is what looks good to you because you're the one who has to be happy with the images on screen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post
Agree here. I have adjusted to using Warm1 and have used it to optimize the set using the AVS 709 and WOW discs and I think it looks great-- but so does standard temp, IMO. Warm 2 is an absolute no go-- the whites are dingy and everything else has a nasty yellowish/greenish tint to it that just doesnt look right. I know its hard to see by eye, but I just cant imagine a properly cal'ed set looking like that.
Absolutely no way that Standard mode on this set is remotely close to rec 709 spec. Sounds like you are used to the very cool color temperatures of a lot of LCD monitors/laptops and that is translating over to your TV viewing preferences. Again, as I mentioned before, no harm in going with whatever looks great to you as you don't have a meter to tweak your calibration to spec. But I highly doubt that your preferences match rec 709 spec and D65 white point...which is not uncommon as many people are initially thrown off by what a properly calibrated display looks like in comparison to their ultra blue preference that they've developed over the years.
StinDaWg likes this.

Last edited by orion2001; 09-08-2014 at 09:03 PM.
orion2001 is offline  
post #1093 of 1384 Old 09-09-2014, 03:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
locomo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Memphis
Posts: 1,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Best Buy set mine up, and I wasn't paying attention when they put the stand together.
Does anyone else's stand wobble?
locomo is online now  
post #1094 of 1384 Old 09-09-2014, 06:24 AM
Member
 
djsketchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
When you say D-Nice calibrated, do you mean he actually calibrated your set or are you talking about just using posted settings? If the latter, then I wouldn't call the set calibrated at all and it is a total crapshoot if you were closer to calibrated or further away. I believe Michael Chen or some other calibrator did a study on a number of sets and it turned out that those using posted "calibrated" settings ended up worse off and further away from the rec 709 spec than those just sticking with THX/Movie mode and default settings on their TVs.

On the other hand, my data point is using a Colormunki Display meter and I have compared default Movie mode + Warm 2, v/s my final calibrated settings and Warm 2 was closer than Warm1 by quite a bit. LastbutnottheLeast has also done a similar comparison with his set and ended up with the same result. So far, I know at least 2 other folks independent of me who have found Warm 2 to be closer to rec709 spec than Warm 1.

Without having a meter to check, I would still stand by my statement that Warm 2 is more likely to be closer to spec than Warm 1. But, as I said, it is a personal preference if you don't have a meter to get a calibrated display, so people are welcome to use whatever looks good to them. Without a meter on hand, it really doesn't matter which you choose. What matters is what looks good to you because you're the one who has to be happy with the images on screen!
Haha, yes, D-Nice was physically present inside my house with calibration equipment. He didn't bother using any of it though, as he said his posted settings were good enough, so he just plugged those in and I was good to go! But seriously, yes, it was actually calibrated, and I know the difference between a calibration and plugging in settings.

I'm not claiming Warm1 is rec709, just as you aren't claiming Warm2 is rec709. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere here on the forum that red error is much more noticeable than blue error, so even if it's a closer starting point, to the human eye Warm2 is more noticeably not rec709 because it favors a warm/red color temperature.

I think we both agree that outside of the basic settings of brightness, contrast, color, tint, and sharpness, without a meter, everything else is personal preference, and I'd rather have my whites a little cool than a little dingy. I like my whites white, not yellow tinged like someone's teeth after a 20 year coffee and smoking habit.
djsketchie is offline  
post #1095 of 1384 Old 09-09-2014, 11:23 AM
Newbie
 
PHYS-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi,

Yeah, I had some difficulty at first with the four screws that connect the back plate to base part. I believe the screws are designed to tap into the material in the base (the 4-leg part), so you have to put more force on them while screwing than you think you should. I'll feel like it has bottom out, but if you use your fingernail you can check that there will be a gap between the bottom of the screw head and the back plate. Once you overcome this major resistance it actually gets a little smother to finally run the screw down. Thankfully, I did not run into anything unusual with the screws in the back plate to TV part.

WARNING!!! - Make sure you put a lot of downward pressure on those base screws or will strip the head.


Michael
PHYS-man is offline  
post #1096 of 1384 Old 09-09-2014, 12:22 PM
Newbie
 
PHYS-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi everybody!,

Thanks for the replies, so far. I have only put about a half a dozen hours on it last night, but even with 'Break-in Settings' to quality is profound. I can't wait to get to fully operation ability.


As to one of the more fundamental issues we have to deal with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by djsketchie View Post
I think we both agree that outside of the basic settings of brightness, contrast, color, tint, and sharpness, without a meter, everything else is personal preference, and I'd rather have my whites a little cool than a little dingy. I like my whites white, not yellow tinged like someone's teeth after a 20 year coffee and smoking habit.
I agree that it will be a personal decision, hopefully without having to compromise due to some irregular output. About a year or so ago, I used to use Warm1 on my LCD but made the change to Warm2. IIRC, I only had to change the color and tint by one unit in each category. I only ran 'Color Space: Auto' on that TV, as well. And I quickly became a fan of it, especially for movies (hardly ever bothered me to the point of changing back to Warm1 for any other content).




So back to those settings...

I am concerned about the break-in period and of coarse any early IR/Burn-in that might occur. So, I am currently breaking in the TV by watch broadcast content in 'P.Size: Zoom2' to avoid any logos using the following picture settings:

Mode: Standard
Cell Light: 5
Contrast: 60
Brightness: 30
Sharpness: 10
Color: 50
Tint: 50/50

Color Tone: Warm2
Black Optimizer: Dark Room
All other stuff, especially Eco Mode: Off

Now, there seems to be some debate as to which will work best for me. Well for daytime I'll make the following alteration:
Color Tone: Warm1
Black Optimizer: Auto

I think that dinginess that is spoken of is most noticeable in brighter light environments.


Could I get some discussion on the following questions?


Does any think that these settings are to high?

Are they too low to get the TV up to proper performance?

When and how shall I increase the Cell, Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness has time goes by?

For example, shall I raise these slowly, say 10% per 10 hours of viewing? Or, just go to 'Normal' settings after some fixed time, like 100 hours?





Now, for all viewing I am using:

Color Space: Auto

and, there seems to be some contention about this vs Native.

Has anyone actually tested an unaltered Native vs the default Auto?

I have seen a lot of screen caps from a few people but I don't remember seeing a direct comparison with just this setting being changed.

Should I just use the 'RGB Mode' only with my Calibration disk on the appropriate color block test? (The one with the primaries and secondaries blocks together to check for uniformity)

Michael
PHYS-man is offline  
post #1097 of 1384 Old 09-09-2014, 01:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,884
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHYS-man View Post
Now, for all viewing I am using:
Color Space: Auto
and, there seems to be some contention about this vs Native.
Has anyone actually tested an unaltered Native vs the default Auto?
I have seen a lot of screen caps from a few people but I don't remember seeing a direct comparison with just this setting being changed.
Since I'm never sure what "Auto" is doing, I did "custom" and "native":
Samsung PN60F5300B Settings And What They Do
Custom gets you closer to where you want to be.

Otherwise, the usual suggestions are
Movie mode
Cell light = 20 to avoid APL issues
Contrast = 95

Just avoid 4:3 content and static logos for the first 200 hours or so.

Enjoy your new set!

Michael

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?

Last edited by LastButNotLeast; 09-09-2014 at 01:14 PM.
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #1098 of 1384 Old 09-09-2014, 04:06 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Just got this tv and I'm very impressed with the picture. I used some calibration settings from somewhere on this forum and that got it nearly perfect with the avs hd 709 basic settings. (I'll check again after a hundred hours or so.)

Can I use the scrolling gradient bars (in the menu under screen burn protection) for break in or should I use actual video content?
It seems to me that would be perfect for break in since it runs every pixel from full black to full white.
ncwalls is offline  
post #1099 of 1384 Old 09-09-2014, 04:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 208
This tv really doesn't need any special procedures or settings during the first few hundred of hours of use. Just use the settings you want from the moment you get the tv and vary your content to minimize any persistent or semi - persistent IR.

The 2013 Panasonics were much more prone to persistent IR, especially if the pixel orbiter was turned off. I don't use the corresponding pixel shift feature on the Samsung and despite this never really need to worry about IR. Most of it goes away in seconds or minutes at most. The more stubborn IR resulting from stuff like playing the same video game a lot for a few weeks straight takes several hours to a few days to go in some cases but this can be done by varying content alone, no special steps required.

Last edited by PlasmaPZ80U; 09-09-2014 at 04:49 PM.
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
post #1100 of 1384 Old 09-09-2014, 05:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 208
As far as the warm1 vs. warm 2 debate goes, the latter is definitely much closer to D65 with default white balance settings but it does err on the warm side whereas warm1 errs on the cool side, which will look subjectively more pleasing in some cases.

As to why my settings use warm1, the answer is that after a main board swap warm1 is much closer to D65 than warm2. For those who didn't have a main board swap, warm2 is the best starting point when using custom white balance settings. I personally don't encourage copying settings including mine, but you can get a rough idea of where to set the basics from posted settings. Copying advanced parameters is a crap shoot at best as not all sets are starting from the exact same baseline from the factory and posted settings are merely tweaks to get things from reasonably accurate to highly accurate.
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
post #1101 of 1384 Old 09-09-2014, 05:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 208
By the way, I updated my latest settings in the third link of my sig to reflect small tweaks made to the cms for red and yellow to improve flesh tone accuracy. I took 5 point saturation sweeps and also the sg flesh tone color checker readings. I considered using the flesh tone setting, but it seemed like it would improve saturation errors while increasing luminance errors so I didn't use it. I also avoided using the cms for the other four colors since I would end up making some low saturation points even more undersaturated then they already were trying to fix minor hue and or luminance errors.
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
post #1102 of 1384 Old 09-09-2014, 05:22 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Got the set on Monday and finally had time to set it up today. I used the settings posted by Bowling Green originally posted by Terp03. I believe I have all the automatic processing turned off with the exception of pixel shift.


I have only been watching for less than a hour and that's been Seinfeld. So far I'm underwhelmed. Hard to explain but at times the picture looks dark and dingy. Almost dirty.
Sharpness doesn't seem to be there and definitions seem blurred and muddled. I've switched to my dvr and am watching Aerial America that was broadcast on the Smithsonian channel. I dvr'd it for this purpose of watching it on this tv. Felt it would be a program for this tv to display it wow factor. Scenes for instance where the shoreline meets the lake that line has no sharpness. It's muddled, blurred almost.


When there is a lot of white background it looks to be a eggshell or dirty white. So I'm not holding much hope for how hockey is going to look.




I don't know what to say other than I'm very underwhelmed. Maybe I need to get used to it or my expectations were too high.


I came from watching a 40' Sharp Aquos lcd that's about 7 years old.
Good news is I didn't drop a couple grand on this set.
keith633 is offline  
post #1103 of 1384 Old 09-10-2014, 01:00 PM
Newbie
 
PHYS-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks PlasmaPZ80U,
For a little reassurance about using the TV with 'normal' settings. I have about 30+ hours on so far and have avoided channel logos for all but a few seconds here and there and using Zoom2 on the sub-channels with the OTA content that I am using. I'll do some movies tonight when I can baby sit things a little more carefully.

Thanks LastButNotLeast,
I checked out the Custom and Native Color Spaces last night. Just to my eye the Native seemed to saturated especially the greens, while Custom was almost identical to Auto. Just a little difference in the Cyan part of the spectrum at least with the content I was viewing.

Thanks djsketchie,
I really do like Warm1 on this set for OTA content. I will try Warm2 for the first time with some movies. I will reply when I can have a basis for a comparison. Ultimately, I will use a calibration disc to run through the basics.



Questions:

Only every used a Blue Only Mode on my LCD, is there anything I should keep in mind when trying to calibrate using all three modes?

Also, any comments on which Film Mode I should be using for proper cadence with this TV? I will try Cinema Smooth just to see how big of a difference it makes, but would like to know what is good for 60fps content.


Currently using:

Standard
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 95
Brightness:44
Sharpness: 10
Black Optimizer: Auto
Color Space: Auto


Michael
PHYS-man is offline  
post #1104 of 1384 Old 09-10-2014, 03:37 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 2
I'm slightly happier today. I adjusted the sharpness up to 20 and that seems to have improved things somewhat. After viewing more I am beginning to see that the colors are more accurate but I still am not thrilled with the whites and some scenes look almost out of focus. Close ups of anything look gorgeous but wide shots seem out of focus at times.


I realize I'm not familiar with all the vernacular you guys use I'm just trying to describe what meets my eye.
How on earth do you avoid channels with logos on the bottom right? They all seem to have one!


Also I am to avoid watching anything that's not 16:9 and doesn't fill the screen? That's a good deal of my cable offerings. How long is needed to avoid those channels?


Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated. I really want to like this tv!
keith633 is offline  
post #1105 of 1384 Old 09-10-2014, 07:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 208
For those using black optimizer auto, be sure to check a white clipping patttern with an all white background to check for any major color shift at the top end when trying to squeeze more than 35 fL out of this set (that number is based on a medium sized standard window pattern, like 10% to 12% size).

Last edited by PlasmaPZ80U; 09-10-2014 at 07:55 PM.
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
post #1106 of 1384 Old 09-10-2014, 09:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
orion2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 434 Post(s)
Liked: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsketchie View Post
to the human eye Warm2 is more noticeably not rec709 because it favors a warm/red color temperature.
Perhaps on your set, but in general this is not at all the case. Just see the comments and data from 2 other users (quoted below). I also have independent meter readings on my set. All 3 of us have measured Warm2 to be far closer to D65 than Warm1. Just look at Michael's plots...see how much further away Warm2 is from D65 and also the corresponding errors introduced in primary and secondary colors. In addition, I am pretty sure I know of at least one other user (Ryan) who also can corroborate these findings with his own measurements with a meter on 2 separated F5300 sets (he returned the first one). I would still, very confidently recommend Warm 2 as the default setting to those buying these panels and not having a meter handy if they want to be as close as possible to rec 709. If they just want to tweak the picture to look the best to them, they are welcome to use whatever setting they wish...including Dynamic mode

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHYS-man View Post
Color Space: Auto

and, there seems to be some contention about this vs Native.

Has anyone actually tested an unaltered Native vs the default Auto?

I have seen a lot of screen caps from a few people but I don't remember seeing a direct comparison with just this setting being changed.

Should I just use the 'RGB Mode' only with my Calibration disk on the appropriate color block test? (The one with the primaries and secondaries blocks together to check for uniformity)

Michael
Firstly, as LastButNotLeast mentions, just forget about using "mild" settings during break in. Just use regular settings and be sensible about the panel use. As long as you don't watch 4:3 content all day or the same channel with logo 24/7, you will be totally fine. If you are extra paranoid, you can run the scrolling bar pattern for a few hours each day till you get a few hundred hours on your set. Using cell light of 5 is only making the break in period longer as the phosphors are going to be pushed a lot less and will take a lot longer to finish their initial aging phase.

Secondly, don't bother with Native color mode. That essentially maximizes output across the native gamut of the display which doesn't match rec 709. Greens end up especially oversaturated. Michael's post with meter readings shows this clearly.

RGB mode to blue only with the color/tint flashing block pattern. That is used to set correct Color level and Tint. Color should come out to 50 in movie mode and 44 in Standard mode (most of us who have tested this have all arrived at this so far). Tint should stay the default although I find one click to the left actually matches very slightly better. But this may be related to my custom CMS settings and in either case would make a negligible difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Since I'm never sure what "Auto" is doing, I did "custom" and "native":
Samsung PN60F5300B Settings And What They Do
Custom gets you closer to where you want to be.
Michael, thanks for posting this. Shows very clearly that Warm2 is far closer than Warm1 to D65. With regards to Auto v/s Custom, did you actually measure a difference? I don't seem to see any comparison graph in your thread (I could have missed it). When I had checked originally, I thought that Custom and Auto by default were the same, with Custom essentially being populated with the internal settings being used for Auto (that was my assumption). I didn't really notice any difference between the two but I did not check this in depth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
As far as the warm1 vs. warm 2 debate goes, the latter is definitely much closer to D65 with default white balance settings but it does err on the warm side whereas warm1 errs on the cool side, which will look subjectively more pleasing in some cases.

As to why my settings use warm1, the answer is that after a main board swap warm1 is much closer to D65 than warm2. For those who didn't have a main board swap, warm2 is the best starting point when using custom white balance settings. I personally don't encourage copying settings including mine, but you can get a rough idea of where to set the basics from posted settings. Copying advanced parameters is a crap shoot at best as not all sets are starting from the exact same baseline from the factory and posted settings are merely tweaks to get things from reasonably accurate to highly accurate.
Agree with everything you say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith633 View Post
When there is a lot of white background it looks to be a eggshell or dirty white. So I'm not holding much hope for how hockey is going to look.
I'm not sure what's going on with your sharpness issue, I haven't had any such issue. However, the underwhelming whites are unfortunately endemic to the newer Plasmas with more aggressive ABL (I think partly to meet energy star requirements in Europe). Many folks who are into hockey end up returning these Plasmas due to the dirty whites when viewing hockey. This is more of an issue in daytime viewing (which is usually the case with sports). The F8500 probably does fine due to having much higher peak brightness, but none of the cheaper plasmas will do particularly well on this front. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news
StinDaWg likes this.
orion2001 is offline  
post #1107 of 1384 Old 09-11-2014, 03:10 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Thanks orion 2001 but that certainly is bad news. I bought a new set specifically before the new hockey season started. There are no adjustments that can be made to at least improve upon this?
keith633 is offline  
post #1108 of 1384 Old 09-11-2014, 03:32 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 2
I have until the 30th to return this tv. However I will have to pay shipping I believe. I will have to call customer service. Perhaps if I exchange it for a different set they will waive shipping.
I'd like to see this hockey problem for myself but there is no hockey on at this point to see. I'm not a gamer so no NHL games either.


I'm guessing my best bet is to now look at led sets. I don't want a smart tv, no 3D just a stand, bezel and a great picture. I want all my money to go into a great picture.
The 50 inch is a good size. Any recommendations?
keith633 is offline  
post #1109 of 1384 Old 09-11-2014, 05:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Josh128's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 199 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by keith633 View Post
I have until the 30th to return this tv. However I will have to pay shipping I believe. I will have to call customer service. Perhaps if I exchange it for a different set they will waive shipping.
I'd like to see this hockey problem for myself but there is no hockey on at this point to see. I'm not a gamer so no NHL games either.


I'm guessing my best bet is to now look at led sets. I don't want a smart tv, no 3D just a stand, bezel and a great picture. I want all my money to go into a great picture.
The 50 inch is a good size. Any recommendations?
Sorry Ive been out of the loop on this one, but by chance are you using "Movie" preset and "Warm 1 or 2" color temps? While experiencing your dirty yellowish white?

If so, change to "Standard" preset and give "Standard" or even "Cool" color temp a try. You will not get yellow tinted whites with these settings.

Also, Im sure you have already, but make sure the Eco Mode is off. Try a cell light of 20,contrast of 93, Brightness of 58, color of 44, Sharpness of 50 (if you think the picture is blurred at 20), and set Gamma to -2. (If you leave Gamma at 0, change brightness to high 40s).Try these settings on Standard preset with either Standard or Cool color temp and see how you like it.

To me, warm 2 just makes everything look dingy and dirty. It may be closer to REC 709, but I dont like it at all.
Josh128 is offline  
post #1110 of 1384 Old 09-11-2014, 05:50 AM
Member
 
djsketchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Michael, thanks for posting this. Shows very clearly that Warm2 is far closer than Warm1 to D65.
You do realize that the link Michael posted where he showed the shift from Warm2 to Warm1 was starting off post calibration, right? Of course his Warm2 was spot on, because that's the color temp he started from when calibrating, hence it lining up with D65 on his charts. It's also readings taken from a 60F5300, not a 51F5300, which is the set I have. It's an entirely different panel from the 51F5300 which is not pentile.

We get it that Warm1 is a little cool and a little farther from D65 than Warm2 at default settings. No one is contesting this so you don't need to keep repeating it. It is also possible that there's enough variation in these sets that someone else's default Warm2 might be more red/warm than the few people who have posted their meter readings from their 51F5300. That's not exactly a large enough sample size to make sweeping statements about what color temp settings you need to use short of a calibration.

I merely brought up giving Warm1 a try to make sure new folks don't treat Warm2 like it was set in stone by Moses on the mount. If you can't calibrate your set, at some point you have to go with your eyes, and I used mine to tell me my 51F5300 with Warm2 had dingy whites compared to my calibrated 60VT60.

Warm1 ≠ Dynamic Mode
PlasmaPZ80U likes this.
djsketchie is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Samsung Pn51f5300 51 Inch Plasma Hdtv
Gear in this thread - Pn51f5300 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off