Are Plasma TVs going to be phased out completely? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 235 Old 12-03-2013, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This is not the best time for me to be making purchases, even though with Panasonic leaving Plasma scene, it really is a good time to get one of their plasma sets.

So, does it mean that very soon you won't be able to purchase their TVs anywhere, but from eBay and similar? What about other brands? I know Samsung plasma TVs are not that great when it comes to deep blacks, so what other brands do have incredible PQ that will still be available to purchase 6-12 months from now?
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post #2 of 235 Old 12-03-2013, 09:58 AM
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Pansonic has not announced an end production date but it will be very soon most think. After that Panny plasmas will become increasingly hard to find.

It will basically be a two horse race, LG and Samsung. I would give Samsung a sizeable lead in that race tho and the Samsung blacks although not as deep as the Panasonic models are still very good when compared to LED models. I wouldn't count on anyone producing plasmas after 2014,
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post #3 of 235 Old 12-03-2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Panasonic has not announced an end production date but it will be very soon most think. After that Panny plasmas will become increasingly hard to find.

It will basically be a two horse race, LG and Samsung. I would give Samsung a sizeable lead in that race tho and the Samsung blacks although not as deep as the Panasonic models are still very good when compared to LED models. I wouldn't count on anyone producing plasmas after 2014,

I totally agree except the part of production. AVJ said there are no more being made so what's out there is it.
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post #4 of 235 Old 12-03-2013, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

This is not the best time for me to be making purchases, even though with Panasonic leaving Plasma scene, it really is a good time to get one of their plasma sets.

So, does it mean that very soon you won't be able to purchase their TVs anywhere, but from eBay and similar? What about other brands? I know Samsung plasma TVs are not that great when it comes to deep blacks, so what other brands do have incredible PQ that will still be available to purchase 6-12 months from now?

They're not? I bought and returned a 60" Panny ZT for a 60" Samsung 8500. This replaced the 50" Pioneer Elite I have had for the last 5 years.

I am MORE than impressed with the 8500.
Ken
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post #5 of 235 Old 12-03-2013, 10:22 AM
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I totally agree except the part of production. AVJ said there are no more being made so what's out there is it.

Okay havent been over there for a while, thanks for the clarification smile.gif

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post #6 of 235 Old 12-03-2013, 10:44 AM
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yes, but who knows when...

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post #7 of 235 Old 12-03-2013, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Okay havent been over there for a while, thanks for the clarification smile.gif

No problem. I read that and got a little emotional...*sniff... even though I knew it anyway.
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post #8 of 235 Old 12-03-2013, 01:03 PM
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Yeah it's a sad time

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post #9 of 235 Old 12-03-2013, 01:36 PM
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No problem. I read that and got a little emotional...*sniff... even though I knew it anyway.

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Yeah it's a sad time




It is indeed.




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post #10 of 235 Old 12-04-2013, 12:51 PM
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The OLEDs are coming! The OLEDs are coming!

 

OLED has all the advantages of LED LCD (brightness) and plasma (color, black level, contrast, motion, uniformity, viewing angle, etc., etc.) combined. Panasonic was losing their shirt on plasma with the masses attracted to bright LEDs in bright big box stores like moths to a flame. Sad but wise to cut losses and focus on the next big thing. 

 

But I can't imagine a better way to bide time waiting for OLED technology to mature than snatching an ST60 on clearance!

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post #11 of 235 Old 12-04-2013, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jeff19342 View Post

The OLEDs are coming! The OLEDs are coming!

OLED has all the advantages of LED LCD (brightness) and plasma (color, black level, contrast, motion, uniformity, viewing angle, etc., etc.) combined. Panasonic was losing their shirt on plasma with the masses attracted to bright LEDs in bright big box stores like moths to a flame. Sad but wise to cut losses and focus on the next big thing. 

But I can't imagine a better way to bide time waiting for OLED technology to mature than snatching an ST60 on clearance!

I looks like they also have some of the disadvantages. I'm talking about IR/Burn in and motion resolution. With those two in mind buying a plasma now isn't a bad idea until they work out the bugs.
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post #12 of 235 Old 12-04-2013, 01:12 PM
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If/when OLEDs become mainstream what will be the best format (P-OLED, SM-OLED / WOLED versus "Real" OLED TV) or will the competing types be too close to matter?

Anyone care to speculate when we'll see 65" (+/-/=) "flat-screen" OLEDs priced under $5000?
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post #13 of 235 Old 12-04-2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jeff19342 View Post

The OLEDs are coming! The OLEDs are coming!

OLED has all the advantages of LED LCD (brightness) and plasma (color, black level, contrast, motion, uniformity, viewing angle, etc., etc.) combined. Panasonic was losing their shirt on plasma with the masses attracted to bright LEDs in bright big box stores like moths to a flame. Sad but wise to cut losses and focus on the next big thing. 

But I can't imagine a better way to bide time waiting for OLED technology to mature than snatching an ST60 on clearance!

but they have their own list of disadvantages too. it's like when plasma replaced CRT, it was supposed to be all good, but then the stuff we took for granted(like input lag) and never even thought to ask about, became a spec many ppl wanted to know about..

i've heard grumblings of input lag and image retention being worse than current plasmas. and the possibility of shifting colors(meaning more frequent calibrations will be necessary) honestly, if you want the 'best of both worlds', talking lcd and plasma, i'd suggest the f8500. oled is going to be it's own thing, hopefully better than both plasma and lcd(not as good) in many aspects, because it'll likely have some flaws we don't even know to look for yet.

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post #14 of 235 Old 12-04-2013, 09:34 PM
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Agreed...that's why I say getting a Panny ST60 on clearance now is a great way to wait for OLED technology to mature, ie. work out the kinks.

The F8500 is certainly an awesome TV, but not everyone can justify $3k for a 64" TV...especially with TC-P65ST60's now around $2k (or even less if you get lucky) and 4K OLEDs around the corner.

Regardless of 4k's practical merits (or lack thereof), I think most of us could agree LCD didn't whip plasma on tech specs, but rather how LED LCD's look in the typical big box showroom. Likewise OLED & 4k both show well under bright lights & up close. Add that to the future potential of extremely low manufacturing costs and OLED becomes an obvious slam dunk. Thus to answer the original question, plasma will surely go the way of CRTs.
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post #15 of 235 Old 12-04-2013, 09:46 PM
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I'm not sure if OLED will ever become mainstream. With almost half of OLED screens failing QC, profit margins have to be almost zero. I sense 4K LED will win out and OLED will become like plasma, becoming extinct. OLED is vastly superior to 4k LED. However, the general consumer won't care. 4K LED will be cheap compared to OLED, and that is what the clueless masses will buy. frown.gif

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post #16 of 235 Old 12-04-2013, 10:06 PM
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Panasonic decision to stop plasma research and production was due to their engineers determining that an UHD (4k) plasma would cost too much to produce and would also run too hot. With the technology issues known, they decided to put their depleted funds, but strong engineering resources, to work on OLED technology that had a brighter future instead of plasma that projected (excuse the pun) a dimmer picture.

To increase their chances of success, Panasonic decided to enter into a joint venture with Sony to create their future generations of OLED consumer HD and UHD tvs. Pairing the strength of Panasonic (engineering resources) with a financially healthy company like Sony that compensated for its main weakness (financial resources), seems like a good plan but we'll have to wait a few years to judge its success. If it works out, we may be buying Panasony or a Sonysonic OLED UHDTVs to replace our plasmas.

Should be exciting times in the near future,
Tim
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post #17 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 08:33 AM
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Well put Tim. Don't worry about OLED wxman because the ace up its sleeve is the potential for OLEDs to be literally printed. Google "ink-jet printing" and "OLED"...when this technique is mastered and production costs plummet, you can bet OLED will take over regardless of how clueless the average consumer is.

 

Remember when all the Best Buy saleskids started telling everyone about how the "plasma gas leaks..." LOL. Likewise once the profit margins for OLED exceed LCD, you can bet that LCDs will suddenly develop some sort of horrible malady to scare away the masses.

 

However in their defense, you have to admit when you approach the TV wall of a big box store, those LEDs really do pop out. It's no wonder average Joe who doesn't know (or care) about black levels and color accuracy turned his nose away from the TV that struggled to fight the bright fluorescent overhead ambient lighting and went straight to the LED light cannon next to it. Plasma sure is going out slugging, but it was never a fair fight.

 

That's what makes OLED so exciting. No doubt many will be confused by the acronym, but OLED is much closer to plasma in principle. Both are emissive displays with each and every pixel being the light and color source. That's the primary reason plasma has such rich, warm colors and deep blacks...which we at AVS know LCD could never match due to the limitations of its transmissive design and why we're so sad to see plasma go away. Meanwhile OLED has the ability to fairly fight LCD in brightness and costs (and eventually surpass).

 

Thus I see OLED as the spiritual successor to our glorious plasma displays. I believe OLED will finish the fight against inferior LCD displays that have been foisted on all of us. And once this superior display technology achieves mass appeal, I think we can expect amazing things at amazing prices.

 

In the mean time I will rest assured my Panny TC-P65ST60 is one of the finest displays available, not to mention the bargain of this century. Keep your eyes peeled for closeouts on the VT60, ZT60, & eventually F8500's!

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post #18 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 11:57 AM
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You know its funny, as a supporter and owner of plasma when I was looking at the Panasonic '60 series I couldn't help but think how meh they looked in store, and this is knowing how well they can look in home. There is no doubt to me why the average consumer doesn't buy plasma, unfortunately.
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post #19 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 01:10 PM
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Just bought my first plasma today. Hope I didn't come too late to the party.
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post #20 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 01:18 PM
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Just bought my first plasma today. Hope I didn't come too late to the party.

Not to late! You can look at it as getting the best of a generation of displays. All 3 of CNET's top recommendations were for Plasma TVs with the exceptions going when you need it in a bright room, then LCD wins. Enjoy your panel and know that you got one of the best of a generation.
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post #21 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 01:31 PM
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Well put Tim. Don't worry about OLED wxman because the ace up its sleeve is the potential for OLEDs to be literally printed. Google "ink-jet printing" and "OLED"...when this technique is mastered and production costs plummet, you can bet OLED will take over regardless of how clueless the average consumer is.



http://www.oled-info.com/panasonic-shows-56-4k-printed-oled-tv-prototype




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post #22 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 03:06 PM
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Panasonic decision to stop plasma research and production was due to their engineers determining that an UHD (4k) plasma would cost too much to produce and would also run too hot. With the technology issues known, they decided to put their depleted funds, but strong engineering resources, to work on OLED technology that had a brighter future instead of plasma that projected (excuse the pun) a dimmer picture.

To increase their chances of success, Panasonic decided to enter into a joint venture with Sony to create their future generations of OLED consumer HD and UHD tvs. Pairing the strength of Panasonic (engineering resources) with a financially healthy company like Sony that compensated for its main weakness (financial resources), seems like a good plan but we'll have to wait a few years to judge its success. If it works out, we may be buying Panasony or a Sonysonic OLED UHDTVs to replace our plasmas.

Should be exciting times in the near future,
Tim

Hysterical. Last I saw (actual financial statements), both Sony and Panasonic are bleeding cash flows. Your point is well thought out, but the numbers don't support the claims. smile.gif

I think OLED still has a ways to go, just like every other technology. By the time they get to perfecting and lowering the costs, it will already have been a few years. For e.g., the yields are super-low, motion lag is as large as 200ms, etc. So you can't go wrong with buying a mid/high-end plasma now that will last you a few years. If you care about proper service and updates, like I do, I'd pick Sammy over Panny (Sammy released a firmware update just few days ago... not sure whether Panny's been keeping up, but they have abandoned the plasma ship for sure). Sammy has committed to the 2014 Evo kit, so I know their support will last longer than Panny's.

One different aspect about OLEDs is, all companies have agreed to the standard. This is unlike the LED vs. LCD vs. plasma wars from 8-10 years ago. So there will be a lot more competition, which is overall a good thing for all of us.
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post #23 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 03:14 PM
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Thanks. Also no regrets. Been reading up for a week or so now. Based on various factors, I caught an interest in the Samsung 8500 51". Wasn't in a "must buy now" mentality, but Based on what I had been seeing, was able to get what I think was good deal on it. So I pulled the trigger.

Once it comes, I'll get it calibrated, and if my previous two units are an indicator - I expect many gratifying years with it. smile.gif
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post #24 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 03:25 PM
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I was told that Panasonic is going to start issuing gift cards rather than fix the tv's. In fact they may already be doing it. Call them and ask. The information I got may be wrong.

I remember when products were built to last.
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post #25 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 04:15 PM
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I was told that Panasonic is going to start issuing gift cards rather than fix the tv's. In fact they may already be doing it. Call them and ask. The information I got may be wrong.


This is a good way to start false rumours. Where did you get your info from?

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In 2008 scientists had lab prototypes of inkjet-printed solar cells that were going to provide cheap rooftop solar panels in just a few years. Well it's 5 years later and inkjet-printed solar cells are still prototypes in labs and commercial production is still years away.

So I'll believe in cheap inkjet-printed OLED TVs when I see them on the shelf.

I just bought a used 60" Kuro with the confidence that it will be several years before OLED catches up.
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post #27 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 04:52 PM
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I was told that Panasonic is going to start issuing gift cards rather than fix the tv's. In fact they may already be doing it. Call them and ask. The information I got may be wrong.

That has to be false information. I don't even see how you'd redeem a gift card with them. Exactly who told you this?

Panasonic historically either (A) fixes the TV, (B) replaces the TV with a new one, or (C) issues the owner a check for the agreed upon amount.

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post #28 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 06:49 PM
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I just bought a used 60" Kuro with the confidence that it will be several years before OLED catches up.

Good move, My 60" Kuro still looks like the day I got it and the calibration is still right on!
When people come over I still get, What kind of TV is that, it's gorgeous!
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post #29 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 08:14 PM
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A sales guy at BB told me. Then he suggested a samsung.

I remember when products were built to last.
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post #30 of 235 Old 12-05-2013, 08:20 PM
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This is a good way to start false rumours. Where did you get your info from?

No, he's almost right. Panasonic sent me a DOA 65VT60 to replace my 65VT50. They're not going to replace the DOA VT60. When it get's picked up they are going to cut me a check for the amount I paid for my VT50. I just ordered a 65VT60 through ABT for a replacement. So yeah, really, if you want a plasma it's now or never.
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