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post #1 of 19 Old 12-17-2013, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi all, Newbie here.

Thanks for all the great read about S60. I wanted to purchase the P55S60 tomorrow, but I still have some concern mainly I have never ever own a Plasma TV.

Here is my story and questions at the end:

My current TV is a Samsung LN-T4042H LCD 1080i that I purchase almost seven years ago for $1500. I still remember how easy it is to purchase an LCD TV. You choose a Brand name and the size and thats all. The TV has been good to me ever since and have no complain about it. It seems like a good time to upgrade to a bigger and better TV.

I read all the reviews on alot of TV the last few months and saw quite a few TV in shops. I still don't understand why do they show live TV in stead of nive Blue ray running for the TV. It makes it alot harder to compare in the shop. I was always scared of Plamas TV for the longest time. I had my eyes set on Samsung all this time since I have always own a Samsung TV and they all have been great. My original 27" CRT which my Mom was using to play retro game finally bite the dust not due to artifacts showing on screen after a good run of 21 years.

I went to Sears and dragged with my wife along after her shopping about 6 weeks ago and was trying to show her the S60 / ST60, they have live TV on and all the damn TV looks the same, and the sales guys said he cannot change the signal. No help there...

In the mean time we saw this beautiful Samsung TV on display playing Monsters vs Aliens. My wife and I was stunted and awe on how beautiful the picture look. I remember saying to my wife, Bob does not look that nice on our TV. Checked with the sales guys and he said its on sale for $1299. The tag shows it as the Samsung 55F6300. It was very tempting at the time. We browsed a bit more and saw another TV tag showing Samsung 55F6300 but it does not look as nice and the TV does not have silver trim on it. Drag the Sales guy over and he said it is the same TV. We are both confused at the time and I went back to the nice TV that we saw before, checked the back of the paneland it said 55F7100. We told the sales guys and he said it must have been a mistake and quickly took the tag away and exchanged it to the right one with the price of $1999. Too good to be true and we both left the shop disappointed.

A few week past and had a chance to bring my wife to Futureshop and finally saw the S60 and the ST60. The S60 was on the top shelf and it looks washed out even though the shop was not that bright. ST60 looks nice on the display wall, but not as stunning as the VT60 we saw later. Seeing the VT60 conviced my wife Plasma does look alot nicer than LED.

Since our buget will not allow us to purchase the VT60, S60 and ST60 is the only choice left.

With the the review, everyone said if you ahve the money, ST60 is the way to go. For myself, I cannot justify spending an extra $600 for the P55ST60, when I can get the P55S60 for $999.

I know this TV will look great in the dark, which thats usually what we do on weekdays. On the other hand, week end will be day time viewing. Will the TV look washed out? I have two slender windows on the side wall, they both have frosted glass looking plastic on it so it does not get as much sun light. I do see reflection of the window on my current TV big thick bezel. I know I can always put up blinds/curtains on those windows, but my wife does not like them at all. Behind the TV is a hugh window which have black out curtains. on the other side is the kitchen.

I don't do much gaming anymore since my son was born, so I am no concern about HUDs, but when my Mother in-law came over and babysit, she does mostly use the TV as the babysitter. I am concern about the IR since Netflix will be the main source of entertainent and my mother in-law does not turn off TV when they go and play somewhere else. Is it a concern for IR? Do I have to do all those thing to age the Pixels? I read on Cnet and they said it is not nessesary, is it true?

I just need some reassurance from someone that have this TV and in the similar situation at I do.

Thanks for your help in advance.
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post #2 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 06:09 AM
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You might look into getting the S64 model at Costco, BJs, or Sams Club, if you belong. It is the same TV as the S60, but has an AR filter (anti-reflection filter) coating on the screen. That would be better if you are worried about reflections from your windows. I think it costs less than the ST60.

As for IR, it seems to be an issue with Pannasonic plasmas still, but is generally not permanent. You would have a problem if you like to watch the same channel predominately and it has a stark logo. In that case, you keep reinforcing the IR and it doesn't ever get a chance to fade away completely. But if you vary your content it shouldn't be a problem. I'm on my first plasma, a Pannasonic ZT60, and I get some faint IR from logos and the scorebox when watching football, for example. But it goes away eventually as I watch other stuff. And it is not even visible unless the screen has a solid color on it like from a cartoon or commercial. Now, I would never recommend a plasma for my parents. They like to have the same news channel going in the background all day whether they are watching or not. If that is your viewing habit, or your mother in law's, get an LCD.

As for netflix, my kids like to stream Disney shows through netlfix. I'm glad they do, because there IS NO LOGO. If they watch a show on the Disney channel you get the mouse ears.

Good luck.

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post #3 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 06:15 AM
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Oh yeah, and about your showroom experience. That salesman sounds clueless. Not surprising.

I had a similar experience in an hhgregg once. They had every one of their HDTVs (about 80 of them) showing the same 480p (standard def) signal from directTV. Huh? Do they want to sell TVs or not? How are any of these TVs going to look better than what is already in peoples' homes? I asked the salesguy to at least change to an HD channel. He said he would "try", but didn't think he could. Again, huh? I waited around about 15 minutes and then gave up. I guess he couldn't figure out a way.

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post #4 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 06:34 AM
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All due respect to the thread starter. Do not consider a plasma and proceed directly to the Samsung 6300 - which is a nice set and well reviewed for an LED. After reading your detailed post about your thoughts on a new display I do not think this is the time for you and your family to try to move to plasma. Plus with the wife and kids there will be no need to worry about IR when they are watching their favorite channel with a logo in the bottom right corner or gaming (if you guys do that). Plasma is great, but not for everyone. Forgive me for not going into greater detail.

By the way if you have a Sam's or Costco nearby (Carbondale, IL if that SIU stands for Southern Illinois) you can get the 6300 in a 60" size for $1299. They also give you 90 days to return if you decide you don't like it and extend the warranty to 2 years. I am sure you guys will enjoy the new display. Be sure to shop around - a lot of good prices on LEDs during the holidays. I would also suggest if you have to purchase from Sears or another retailer like BB, that you make sure they offer an extended return period (Best Buy does) and will price match. Every year around the Super Bowl the deals will get better and you may be able to find a better price on your display, get the retailer to price match Amazon or whoever is offering it, and save a few more bucks. By the way Amazon has that 55" Samsung available for $1597, if you take into account you aren't paying taxes on the purchase amount the difference between your $1299 Sears price mistake and Amazon is not that far apart. Shop around, you will save yourself some $. Happy Holidays.
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post #5 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

All due respect to the thread starter. Do not consider a plasma and proceed directly to the Samsung 6300 - which is a nice set and well reviewed for an LED. After reading your detailed post about your thoughts on a new display I do not think this is the time for you and your family to try to move to plasma. Plus with the wife and kids there will be no need to worry about IR when they are watching their favorite channel with a logo in the bottom right corner or gaming (if you guys do that). Plasma is great, but not for everyone. Forgive me for not going into greater detail.



By the way if you have a Sam's or Costco nearby (Carbondale, IL if that SIU stands for Southern Illinois) you can get the 6300 in a 60" size for $1299. They also give you 90 days to return if you decide you don't like it and extend the warranty to 2 years. I am sure you guys will enjoy the new display. Be sure to shop around - a lot of good prices on LEDs during the holidays. I would also suggest if you have to purchase from Sears or another retailer like BB, that you make sure they offer an extended return period (Best Buy does) and will price match. Every year around the Super Bowl the deals will get better and you may be able to find a better price on your display, get the retailer to price match Amazon or whoever is offering it, and save a few more bucks. By the way Amazon has that 55" Samsung available for $1597, if you take into account you aren't paying taxes on the purchase amount the difference between your $1299 Sears price mistake and Amazon is not that far apart. Shop around, you will save yourself some $. Happy Holidays.

 



Thanks for the advise smurraybhm, I never thought of it that way smile.gif
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post #6 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 07:48 AM
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Don't forget that along with an LED comes bad screen uniformity and clouding, especially noticable when the lights are down. Also terrible off viewing angles.

If you are going to go with a Samsung LED I would at least suggest going with the 7000 series at it will have micro dimming that will sort of help with the terrible clouding and flashlighting that comes along with lower end LEDs. In the bright lights you usually will not notice this defect although the manufactureres don't consider it a defect but rather in spec of the tech.

I have a 3 1/2 year old and I owned a Samsung 60es7500. I thought knowing that IR would not be a problem I would be happy but I wasn't. If you want the best PQ that will keep you happy for the next few years, plasma is where it is at. If you want a unit that looks defective in the dark but considered normal go with an LED. It will look ok in a lighted room.

I was willing to deal with IR over all the other issues with an LED. IR can usually be fixed,

If you go with a Samsung LED, the 7000 series will also have better motion. That is the lowest level LED I would go if you are deciding between that and a plasma. For the plasma, I would go 60ST60 for $1,499. Not sure why you are saying 55" for the same price.

Oh, and a 55F7100 is $1,597 on Amazon. That is the LED I would go with if it is in your price range and you choose to go that route. Anything lower and you might be dissapointed and regret your purchase, especially because you have plasma on your mind.
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post #7 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 07:55 AM
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You will get advice until the cows come home but at the end of the day it's what looks good to you. Just remember that at the store they usually have an HDMI cable hooked up to the Tv and it's tuned to an HD channel. That's the magic you stare at in awe at the store. Just pick what you'll be happy with every day.

I remember when products were built to last.
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post #8 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Which LED do you think come close to the PQ of the S60?
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 08:15 AM
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You will get advice until the cows come home but at the end of the day it's what looks good to you. Just remember that at the store they usually have an HDMI cable hooked up to the Tv and it's tuned to an HD channel. That's the magic you stare at in awe at the store. Just pick what you'll be happy with every day.
Nothing wrong with coming here for advice. Also, looking at a TV for 5 minutes in the store will not tell them everything about the TV they can find out here. Lots of things the sales guy won't tell you or you don't even think about.

When people come here asking for advice it usually means they want to know more then just the basic sale pitch and this purchase is important to them.
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post #10 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 08:21 AM
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Agreed, most sales guys don't even know about this site.

I remember when products were built to last.
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post #11 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 08:38 AM
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Which LED do you think come close to the PQ of the S60?
None will come close to the actual screen uniformity. The S60 does not have the best light filter so if you have a bright room it will not be the best choice. During the day it will take a hit in blacks and contrast. At night it will be better then most LEDs.

The 6300 has no micro dimming at all so the screen will not have any software enhancements to cover the defects of edgle lit LEDs. If the 6300 is in your price range then youy might be happy with it. If you want an LED and have a little more money to splurge, like I said the Samsung 7100 is the way to go. Better blacks, better motion and will give you standard dimming features. Color and saturation should also be better on the 7000 series.
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks eric3316 I do agree the Samsung F7100 has really nice PQ. I can get it for $1999. What about the F7500 and F8000? Id it worth the extra couple of hundreds?

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post #13 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 10:41 AM
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Thanks eric3316 I do agree the Samsung F7100 has really nice PQ. I can get it for $1999. What about the F7500 and F8000? Id it worth the extra couple of hundreds?
Why wouldn't you order it from Amazon which is much cheaper unless you aren't in the US? They sell the 55F7500 for the price you are seeing the 7100 for.

The 7500 and 8000 will bring better blacks and better dimming features. Obviously the 8000 being the best of the bunch. They will also bring the evolution kit upgade option which will allow you to upgrade the smart TV features for the next few years where the 7100 does not offer this feature. Getting into the 7500 and 8000 in the plasma world you are looking at a VT60 level of plasma and that TV is known to be the king of today. Heck, the ST60 will have better pq then the 7500 and 8000 LEDs. I think the price of the LEDs are crazy but I would not pay $2,000 for a 55" 7100 series. If you are going to pay that much and are stuck on an LED it would have to at least be the 7500 or 8000 series.

You do realize that the 55F8000 is selling for the same price as a 65VT60 on Amazon. I cannot imagine anyone shelling out the same amount of money for a 55" edgle lit TV vs a 65" top of the line Panasonic plasma. I just do not know how anyone here can recommend that with or without considering IR on plasma's.

You might want to ask you questions in the LED section where there is a lot less knowledge of plasma TV's because people here have plasma knowledge where over there not so much. I owned the 2012 Samsung 7500 LED and used it for around 6 months. I will say I also tried various LG LED's as well. Samsung definitley makes the better if not best high end LEDs right now but it is still no VT60 which I currently own now.
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I am not in US and Amazon.ca actually cost more than if I buy it locally smile.gif
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 11:13 AM
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I am not in US and Amazon.ca actually cost more than if I buy it locally smile.gif
All you guys just need to move to the US. It would make things simplier on this site. lol

It is hard to give an opinion unless knowing all the TV's in play and the prices where you are. It makes reccomendations much easier if the ptices are known as it then changes the question if the extra value for the price is worth it. Also what is your comfort budget and what is your maxx budget.
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post #16 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I could go up to the F8000 but is it really that much better than the F7500 and F7100? I have never ever own a Plasma and I still have concern about IR, the buzzing and pop. It might scared my wife to death lol.
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post #17 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 01:06 PM
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I could go up to the F8000 but is it really that much better than the F7500 and F7100? I have never ever own a Plasma and I still have concern about IR, the buzzing and pop. It might scared my wife to death lol.
What pop? And the buzzing is not like it used to be. Unless you have the volume totally off and a pure white screen you will never hear a thing. Even in that circumstance it is so low I wouldn't even take it into consideration when choosing a TV. It is not even discussed anymore on Panasonic Plasma's because it is the the point of irrelevant.

As far as the jump to the 8000 series being worth it, you might want to ask people in the F8000 thread as they own the TV and some of them might have exchanged from a lower level up to the 8000. Anyone who has not owned each TV to actually compare the picture to each other will just be basing it off paper specs or some of those guys might have spent time in a store comparing them . Definitley bring your question over there. I will say the F8000 is known to be the best LED produced this year but I do not know how much better the picture will be over the 7100 or 7500.
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post #18 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 02:02 PM
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I assume you have checked out the article that Scott Wilkerson has put together regarding LEDs.

http://www.avsforum.com/a/avs-forums-top-9-lcd-tvs

I would encourage you to look at the 6400, I own one that is a few years old, it has been a done what I need it to do well, and I am saying that as an owner of a VT60, Pioneer 5020, and Sony XBR9. It could be a good choice for quality and the budget. Micro dimming isn't going to make a difference with uniformity, etc. or is it worth the extra $. Just read the reviews of owners and others to see what I mean. If it was full array local dimming that would be a different story and cost you a lot more. Of course those are scarce to non-existent right now, Vizio is supposed to be coming out with some in a few months, but with only 16 zones I don't think they will satisfy the videophile in all of us.

Not to push you away from plasma, but living in Canada does add to the cost of buying a display. The lower end Panasonic plasma displays will have issues with screen uniformity - that statement was made by a very respected plasma expert. For a family display that will be used under different lighting conditions and by users - LED is the way to go. If you are going to spend $2k on an LED, I might encourage you to look at the Samsung 8500, I believe those are priced a lot more competitively in Canada then Panasonic's higher end displays.

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post #19 of 19 Old 12-18-2013, 03:00 PM
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Micro dimming isn't going to make a difference with uniformity, etc. or is it worth the extra $
I will 100% dissagree with you on that. On the es7500 micro dimming was only activated on the standard picture mode and not movie mode. Needless to say I could not watch my TV in the dark using the movie picture mode without the micro dimming feature because dark scenes were effected and I was forced to use the standard setting because of this which made the TV watchable in the dark.

Turning it on and off in the dark you can clearly see the difference in the blacks and clouding. It makes your blacks darker and also mutes or completely gets rid of the clouding. If the es7500 did not have micro dimming and I was forced to watch it without that feature I would have returned the TV within a day.

I also believe on the F series dimming is now available in movie mode.
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