New VT60 with possible issues. Insight needed. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 01-02-2014, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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So I recently got a new Panasonic VT60. I’m coming off an old CRT so this is my first flat panel/smart TV.  I did lots of research and based on everything I read and saw in stores, Panasonic plasma seemed to be the way to go.

The TV arrived the Friday before Christmas.  So far I have been breaking it in by watching movies, making  a point to pick as much full screen content as possible.  I have not changed any of the picture settings from what they were out of the box. 

So far the picture has been outstandingly good, and I am very happy with the performance.  However there are two issues I had questions about.

The first one I think I fixed.  I have noticed at times the picture seems dark.  Not plasma in a bright room dark, but like someone turned down the brightness between viewings.  Then the other night I was watching SVU and I noticed the picture actually getting darker before my eyes.  It wasn’t a gradual, it faded in clear steps (about 10 total) until the picture was noticeably darker than it had been a minute prior.  This wasn’t a change in lighting on the show, it was definitely the display brightness stepping down.  I think it was a feature called CATS (Contrast Automatic Tracking System).  I turned it off and I think I fixed it, however I am not 100% sure.  Has anyone experienced anything like this before or have any insight as to what it may be?

The other issue I am noticing is tearing/motion blur/pixilation around objects when there is a lot of motion on the screen.  More than any of the display models I saw in stores, and to be honest, more than I have seen on many of the LED tvs out there.  It happens sometimes during BR playback, or while watching cable.  My cable box was upgraded to an HD box and to be honest the issue seems to be worse on the HD box over the old standard def digital box.  I am a bit confused because I thought the point of plasma was it was supposed to excel at fast paced motion.  The effect seems to be worse during cartoons like American Dad/Family guy.  Any thoughts on correcting this? 

Never having an HD TV of any kind, I am a little unsure of what is acceptable in this department, and what is symptomatic of a problem.  My fear is getting a lemon. 


I have a Sony BDP- S790 for movie playback into HDMI port 1, and my HD cable box in to HDMI 2. This is a US version of the VT60, September build date.


Any thoughts?

 Regards

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post #2 of 19 Old 01-02-2014, 12:51 PM
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It was CATS. Usually most of us turn all such processing to OFF. As to motion iteration, I have been bothered by it as well. Either get used to it, turn Motion Smoother to a higher setting, get a different tv, do something to change your play back speed. I think the problem is that the tv image changes like 24 times per minute, but the tv turns off the image faster than we are used to. That is my own personal take on the subject. I've read articles that say it is a feature of having a very fast refreshing tv. I hope I get used to it. It seems to be the tradeoff for having a sharp image. Your take may certainly be different.
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post #3 of 19 Old 01-03-2014, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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So tearing/motion blur/pixilation is the same thing as motion iteration?   The affect I'm talking about happens around the edges of objects.  If you had a ball bouncing across the screen, the trailing edge would distort, pixelate, and/or tear.  I thought the 600 Hz refresh rate on plasma TVs was supposed to virtually eliminate that affect?  

You mentioned changing playback speed. Can you explain what you mean by this?

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post #4 of 19 Old 01-03-2014, 07:03 AM
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What settings are you using? Have you tried a different hdmi cable?

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post #5 of 19 Old 01-03-2014, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm using the default (from the box) settings for now until the TV has ~150 hours on it.  I haven't had a chance to read up on all the settings yet or what people suggest for break in period.    
 

Both HDMI cables are brand new.  My understanding of digital signal transmission, plus several cnet articles told me to buy the $10 cable because quality/performance should be the same as the $$ ones. 

With that said the cable box is giving me the most problems, and the HDMI cable I'm using on it was supplied by Charter, who in my opinion has a habit of supplying crap.  I will try a my own cable this weekend.

I'm still curious about changing the play back speed and what that means.

Thanks

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post #6 of 19 Old 01-03-2014, 02:39 PM
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Is it only during 24fps playback (movies) are also on 60 fps playback (sports, soap operas, some video games)?

 

I'm not exactly sure what you are describing, but it may simply be the way plasmas render objects in motion.   It looks a little different than LCDs and CRTs.  I would maybe describe it as a subtle dithering effect.  On most content it is not noticable, but to the discerning eye, on some content it is.  I too have just moved from CRT's to plasma (mine is a Samsung) and have noticed a few differences between how motion is rendered on each technology. 

 

Not sure if this helps or not.

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post #7 of 19 Old 01-06-2014, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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After some more reading the problem I am having is motion blur, not dithering.  Last night I was watching cable TV again and it was pretty bad.  Almost once every 1-2 minutes or so I would catch a significant amount of motion blur on the screen.  It was typically around people who were moving in relation to the back ground.  At this point im starting to get discouraged.  The point of dropping $$ on this TV was to avoid this sort of performance. 

The affect happens sometimes with BR or DVD playback.  It's pretty frequent with cable TV.  I also noticed a lot of the text on screen during adds seemed out of focus.  There seemed to be shadows directly above or below much of the text.  It almost gave a double vision effect.

Again I thought plasmas were supposed to handle motion much better than LCD/LED tvs.  Can anyone weigh in on this?

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post #8 of 19 Old 01-06-2014, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBarron4 View Post

After some more reading the problem I am having is motion blur, not dithering.  Last night I was watching cable TV again and it was pretty bad.  Almost once every 1-2 minutes or so I would catch a significant amount of motion blur on the screen.  It was typically around people who were moving in relation to the back ground.  At this point im starting to get discouraged.  The point of dropping $$ on this TV was to avoid this sort of performance. 


The affect happens sometimes with BR or DVD playback.  It's pretty frequent with cable TV.  I also noticed a lot of the text on screen during adds seemed out of focus.  There seemed to be shadows directly above or below much of the text.  It almost gave a double vision effect.


Again I thought plasmas were supposed to handle motion much better than LCD/LED tvs.  Can anyone weigh in on this?
Did you turn motion smoother off? If you kept everything default it is probably on. Turn it completely off and start enjoying your TV. I do not even know why they have this option on these plasma's. There is nothing good about it and sounds like what you are seeing. It makes the image tear when things move fast. It also introduces the soap opera effect. Besides it being pointless on a plasma, I have no idea why they turn it on by default. For people who do not know what it is, they probably think they bought a piece of crap TV with the effect it introduces.

Turn that baby OFF!
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post #9 of 19 Old 01-06-2014, 08:53 AM
 
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^They have it to compete with LCD because some people (weirdos?) LOVE frame interpolation. eek.gif
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post #10 of 19 Old 01-07-2014, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post


Did you turn motion smoother off? If you kept everything default it is probably on. Turn it completely off and start enjoying your TV. I do not even know why they have this option on these plasma's. There is nothing good about it and sounds like what you are seeing. It makes the image tear when things move fast. It also introduces the soap opera effect. Besides it being pointless on a plasma, I have no idea why they turn it on by default. For people who do not know what it is, they probably think they bought a piece of crap TV with the effect it introduces.

Turn that baby OFF!

 

That seems to have fixed it.  I turned off the Caption Smoother as well.  Watched an hour or so of TV last night on the same channel that was giving me issues before and didn't notice anything.  The only blurriness I see now seems to stem from the actual filming and the fact that I'm watching tv on 65" screen so everything is much more apparent (this is still a new experience for me).   The one thing I am still seeing on occasion is a bit of a shadow or double line on some objects.  It appears mostly on text or objects that are still.  It has the affect of making things look slightly out of focus or like your seeing double vision.  Seems only to happen with cable TV, not BR playback. Is this just what SD looks like on an HDTV?  I think I'm going to watch it for a while and try to nail down my settings and see how things end up.

This HDTV stuff is confusing, and I'm a rather tech savvy person.

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post #11 of 19 Old 01-09-2014, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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So after reading some of the break in threads and seeing that most people use the cinema setting for the break in period, I changed mode from standard to cinema and I started getting motion blur again.  This is while watching standard definition content (Big Bang Theory) through my cable box.  When I switched to an HD channel it seems to have gone away. 

Is it normal to get motion blur on SD content?  Are other people experiencing this? 

The other effect I am still noticing is a shadow/ double edge around certain objects on the screen. Again this only seems to be with SD Content.  Does SD just look that bad on a 65" screen?

 

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post #12 of 19 Old 01-13-2014, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Bump.

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post #13 of 19 Old 01-13-2014, 06:35 AM
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SD? Garbage in garbage out. No display including my Kuro makes SD look even acceptable to me for watching after seeing HD. Sorry, but I can't remember the last time I watched anything on an SD channel for more than a few minutes unless it was in the middle of a storm and those were the only channels coming in via DTV.
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post #14 of 19 Old 01-13-2014, 06:57 AM
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Did you shut off all the processing things again when you switched modes like motion smoother and all the other non needed stuff?

I don't know how you watch SD content on this TV. I can't leave an SD picture on my TV for more then 20 seconds. It is painful to watch. Don't you get Big Bang Theory in HD, even the repeats? If not, get a new cable provider. You have way to good of a TV to waste it on SD content.
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post #15 of 19 Old 01-13-2014, 12:02 PM
 
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As much as I hate armchair moderating, these types of threads add to much forum clutter. There is a VT60 thread where you can air your concerns. I'm not so sure "upgrading from a CRT" is a valid argument to create a redundant thread.
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post #16 of 19 Old 01-15-2014, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

SD? Garbage in garbage out. No display including my Kuro makes SD look even acceptable to me for watching after seeing HD. Sorry, but I can't remember the last time I watched anything on an SD channel for more than a few minutes unless it was in the middle of a storm and those were the only channels coming in via DTV.


I have pretty much stopped watching SD channels as well, except for a few I don't get like BBC America.  I'm a little confused why SD would blur when HD doesn't.  Shouldn't displaying SD content be less work for the TV?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Did you shut off all the processing things again when you switched modes like motion smoother and all the other non needed stuff?

I don't know how you watch SD content on this TV. I can't leave an SD picture on my TV for more then 20 seconds. It is painful to watch. Don't you get Big Bang Theory in HD, even the repeats? If not, get a new cable provider. You have way to good of a TV to waste it on SD content.

 

I tried to but some seem to be grayed out and won't let me adjust them.  I would love a new cable provide but my only option is charter which I hate, or satellite.

 

I noticed motion blur was while watching Wreck it Ralph on BR.   In one of the early scenes there is a zombie character.  When he talks his face/head move rather quickly and I noticed some pretty severe blur during these scenes.    

It also seems to pop up when a person or object is moving very quickly in relation to the background, or when the camera pans quickly.  Not every time, but sometimes.

Is some motion blur to be expected with a tv of this caliber?  I watched a fair amount of content on the ST60 and VT60 in stores and never noticed it.   I guess im just trying to figure out if its my settings or a problem with the tv.

 

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As much as I hate armchair moderating, these types of threads add to much forum clutter. There is a VT60 thread where you can air your concerns. I'm not so sure "upgrading from a CRT" is a valid argument to create a redundant thread.


I am aware of that post and have spent a good amount of time reading it.  While I am new to this forum, I have spent countless hours on others.  It has been my experience that in giant threads such as the VT60/VT65 thread, questions can sometimes get lost/ go unresolved when the conversation takes off in another direction.  Also, information pertaining to one question can be spread out over many pages with multiple topics in between which can make things hard to follow. As a complete rookie with modern TVs and anything HD related that huge thread is a bit overwhelming.  That is why I chose to start a new one, specific to my issue.

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post #17 of 19 Old 01-15-2014, 06:45 AM
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Since you are a rookie sometimes it pays to listen to a vet like Vinnie. He has a very valid point. It's great you've chosen to join us on AVS and are a fellow owner of a VT. To be blunt (nicely), you don't have a problem. Standard Def doesn't look good on any display and I can see blur or blocking on my LED if I watch SD. If you bought the set for the purpose of watching a SD signal and expecting it to look watchable (I guess we all can tolerate some things better than others) then take it back.

Ability to use some of the processing tools depends on the mode you are using, THX modes pretty much lock everything down (gray it out) whereas Custom is wide open. I strongly suggest you don't use them, but you can always set motion to weak or mid and see if that helps. Plasma handles motion better than a LED and what your seeing isn't apparent on my set or any of my previous plasmas. You may also want to swap HDMI cables to see if that helps (read the threads and see how many times a cable causes picture issues) and if you running the signal from your blu-ray player through a receiver vs. direct to your display try taking the receiver out of the chain. Some owners have complained of picture issues and did not realized their receivers where not passing a pure signal on to the display.
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post #18 of 19 Old 01-15-2014, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

Since you are a rookie sometimes it pays to listen to a vet like Vinnie. He has a very valid point. It's great you've chosen to join us on AVS and am a fellow owner of a VT. To be blunt (nicely), you don't have a problem. Standard Def doesn't look good on any display and I can see blur or blocking on my LED if I watch SD. If you bought the set for the purpose of watching a SD signal and expecting it to look watchable (I guess we all can tolerate some things better than others) then take it back.

Ability to use some of the processing tools depends on the mode you are using, THX modes pretty much lock everything down (gray it out) whereas Custom is wide open. I strongly suggest you don't use them, but you can always set motion to weak or mid and see if that helps. Plasma handles motion better than a LED and what your seeing isn't apparent on my set or any of my previous plasmas. You may also want to swap HDMI cables to see if that helps (read the threads and see how many times a cable causes picture issues) and if you running the signal from your blu-ray player through a receiver vs. direct to your display try taking the receiver out of the chain. Some owners have complained of picture issues and did not realized their receivers where not passing a pure signal on to the display.

 

 

 I did not mean to come off snappy towards Vinnie.  I only meant to explain my reasoning behind going with a new thread.  My apologies if I sounded short, I sincerely didn't mean it that way.

I did search the VT60 thread for this issue and haven't found a solution yet.  With a 347 page thread its possible I missed something.  I make a point to do my homework before posting rookie questions, and only post questions like this if I can't find an answer, or don't understand the information I find.

Right now my BR player goes directly to the TV through an HDMI cable, as does my cable box. 
 

I will mess with it some more when I get home.

I find the user manual that comes with the TV to be fairly uninformative.

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post #19 of 19 Old 01-15-2014, 09:37 AM
 
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I wasn't offended. wink.gif Hopefully, you've received the answers you've been seeking. The only reason I complained about redundancy is because another former CRT owner who purchased a ZT60 created a thread with the same concerns/complaints recently, and it just gets a little too cluttered, I feel, when there are repeat threads on nearly the same topic. Makes it harder to sift through the noise.
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