Pioneer 8G 9G Kuro Reset Guide - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

So you tweaked it just to see if you could improve on dnices work?

Im interested to know your current rstp and s1,s3,s4 values, if you dont mind.

rst p 002

fs1d 126

fs3d 116

fs4d 137

untouched as far I know hours are 860

if i can help let me know , I can do some testing but I don't want to reset my panel
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post #722 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 11:58 AM
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Well I can't be sure if it worked because I thought 12 was the value for RSTP. I put everything back to what I wrote down as my defaults before the reset last night. I lowered RSTP to 1 and other than black rain (which is what I got the very first reset) there were no visible issues. On close inspection I had to raise SUS back up from 128 to near 150 to eliminate magenta misfires on white.

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post #723 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

So you tweaked it just to see if you could improve on dnices work?
.

no , I just did some trial and error , adjusting only one thing at a time , making note of all factory settings , I could not believe how dark the panel became with the fsad adjusted to 100.

this was all due to learning to correct magenta pixels on moving images , dark to light , on a different display.
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post #724 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 12:14 PM
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name="VidPro" url="/t/1510500/pioneer-8g-9g-kuro-reset-guide-updated-2014-02-21/680_40#post_24394414"]
Interesting. RSTP was set at 12 the first time I entered the SM. At 2 there was only black rain and it seemed worse than usual. That's why I raised it. What seemed weird was the setting back to 12 didn't do anything to the black level that I could see.

Stu, I did say that but it was still there on menus. I jumped the gun a bit.

Perhaps you did but...

I have been doing this stuff long enough to know what's what - two years and three months to be exact.

RSTP being lowered isn't for reset pulse and hour meters.

If you put RSTP at default - SUS at a sensible post reset value - (YKNOFS1 at default or a little bit higher than default (because you have no white misfires post reset)... YKNOFSA up (until) misfires on moving images subside...

Then you will have black lower than NIB KRP500M minus the Kuro crying because it feels under the weather driven wise.

People (not you) who haven't been doing this long should not confuse reset and tweaked Kuro's with non reset Kuro's and tweaks.

They are hugely different
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post #725 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

Well I can't be sure if it worked because I thought 12 was the value for RSTP. I put everything back to what I wrote down as my defaults before the reset last night. I lowered RSTP to 1 and other than black rain (which is what I got the very first reset) there were no visible issues. On close inspection I had to raise SUS back up from 128 to near 150 to eliminate magenta misfires on white.

Yeah, I set mine to the defaults listed in the service manual.

Do this (if you'd like):

1. Set voltages to the below values (I'm pretty sure you have a 101FD or KRP500M, as these values are for those displays).

SUS 128
VOF 113
VRP 18
XPOFS1 85
XPOFS2 63
YKNOFSA1 138
YKNOFSA3 128
YKNOFSA4 149
YKNOFSAD 128

2. Reset your display with these commands in this order.

CHM
CPM
CSD
CPD
CPC
CMT

3. Turn off KURO and unplug for 5 minutes.

4. Plug back in and turn on KURO.

5. See if you have any artifacts but don't adjust anything.

6. Set RSTP to 2 to reduce black level.

7. If any artifacts, try removing them by adjusting the separation between 3 and 4. Once you find a sweet spot where artifacts are reduced, adjust S1, S2 and S3 up and down (all at the same time and amount) to see which direction provides an improvement. Find a sweet spot but dont got below factory minimum.

8. If any remaining artifacts reduce VOL OFFSET to factory minimum.

9. If any remaining artifacts, increase SUS.
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post #726 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post

rst p 002

fs1d 126

fs3d 116

fs4d 137

untouched as far I know hours are 860

if i can help let me know , I can do some testing but I don't want to reset my panel

Set SAD to 128 and set S1 to 117, S3 to 107, and S4 to 128 and report back results. I bet you'll have the same deep blacks. Those are the settings that I used on my 101FD with 900 hours before resetting. It was absolutely perfect.
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post #727 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 12:19 PM
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Makaveddie81 why are you encouraging people to lower rstp on Kuro's that have been reset?
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post #728 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

People (not you) who haven't been doing this long should not confuse reset and tweaked Kuro's with non reset Kuro's and tweaks.

If this was directed at me, I am simply posting what worked for my RESET display. If not meant for me, then move along.
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post #729 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

Set SAD to 128 and set S1 to 117, S3 to 107, and S4 to 128 and report back results. I bet you'll have the same deep blacks. Those are the settings that I used on my 101FD with 900 hours before resetting. It was absolutely perfect.

ok I will try them and report back
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post #730 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Makaveddie81 why are you encouraging people to lower rstp on Kuro's that have been reset?

Because it worked on mine after I reset it and lowered blacks without having to tweak anything else. Blacks looked grey with it at 18. They can put it back to where it was if they encounter issues, no damage done.
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post #731 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

Yeah, I set mine to the defaults listed in the service manual.

Do this (if you'd like):

1. Set voltages to the below values (I'm pretty sure you have a 101FD or KRP500M, as these values are for those displays).

SUS 128
VOF 113
VRP 18
XPOFS1 85
XPOFS2 63
YKNOFSA1 138
YKNOFSA3 128
YKNOFSA4 149
YKNOFSAD 128

2. Reset your display with these commands in this order.

CHM
CPM
CSD
CPD
CPC
CMT

3. Turn off KURO and unplug for 5 minutes.

4. Plug back in and turn on KURO.

5. See if you have any artifacts but don't adjust anything.

6. Set RSTP to 2 to reduce black level.

7. If any artifacts, try removing them by adjusting the separation between 3 and 4. Once you find a sweet spot where artifacts are reduced, adjust S1, S2 and S3 up and down (all at the same time and amount) to see which direction provides an improvement. Find a sweet spot but dont got below factory minimum.

8. If any remaining artifacts reduce VOL OFFSET to factory minimum.

9. If any remaining artifacts, increase SUS.

As soon as it gets dark in a couple of hours I'll do that.

Is there a link for the service manual? I have a 500M by the way.

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
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post #732 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 12:31 PM
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[ name="makaveddie81" url="/t/1510500/pioneer-8g-9g-kuro-reset-guide-updated-2014-02-21/720_40#post_24394589"]
Because it worked on mine after I reset it and lowered blacks without having to tweak anything else. Blacks looked grey with it at 18. They can put it back to where it was if they encounter issues, no damage done.[/quote]

Well if black looks grey at 18 post reset when the pulse meter has began again - then something is deeply wrong.

Because if you actually read back when all this started people who reset couldn't tell the panel was on in blackout conditions who had the measured MLL to prove it - so close to zero. ..
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post #733 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

[ name="makaveddie81" url="/t/1510500/pioneer-8g-9g-kuro-reset-guide-updated-2014-02-21/720_40#post_24394589"]
Because it worked on mine after I reset it and lowered blacks without having to tweak anything else. Blacks looked grey with it at 18. They can put it back to where it was if they encounter issues, no damage done.

Well if black looks grey at 18 post reset when the pulse meter has began again - then something is deeply wrong.

Because if you actually read back when all this started people who reset couldn't tell the panel was on in blackout conditions who had the measured MLL to prove it - so close to zero. ..[/quote]

Blacks looked grey on the 5% grey window and low apl content. Sorry should have clarified that.
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post #734 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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here is a picture showing the differences between different RSTP values.

this was taken 2 months ago when i tested it
i think the effect lowering or raising RSTP AFTER the reset isnt that huge as it may be before the reset.

i have a default RSTP of 016
and i also think that it looks best there.
its almost that you get back the red tone (red color higher from the historgram) if you set RSTP to low.

over exposed 10% window from camera not post.


my eyes couldnt see any difference between 001 and 016 but the camera captured it
over 016 you could notice that the blacks got brighter

30sec exposure time on all images just different RSTP values.

Edit: this test was done after the first reset.
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post #735 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

here is a picture showing the differences between different RSTP values.

this was taken 2 months ago when i tested it
i think the effect lowering or raising RSTP AFTER the reset isnt that huge as it may be before the reset.

i have a default RSTP of 016
and i also think that it looks best there.
its almost that you get back the red tone (red color higher from the historgram) if you set RSTP to low.

over exposed 10% window from camera not post.


my eyes couldnt see any difference between 001 and 016 but the camera captured it
over 016 you could notice that the blacks got brighter

same exposure on all images just different RSTP values.

Edit: this test was done after the first reset.

I noticed a difference once i raised rstp over the 8 mark.
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post #736 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 01:53 PM
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I can see the red clearly @ 1
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post #737 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

I can see the red clearly @ 1

I guess all kuro's are different. No hint of red here... only inky blacks. Watched sinister last night - an amazing choice to showcase blacks - and my kuro handled it like a champ
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post #738 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

I guess all kuro's are different.

yes thats why i think its impossible to use any "new" recomended settings after the reset.

it gets more complicaded than it needs to be.

Do the reset with the DEFAULT voltages. (from your advise)

IF you get problems after the reset or want to tweak MLL even more.
Adjust some voltages INSIDE the adjustments ranges.

when you are done do another reset.

i think that Every single problem that you could possible get after the reset has been talked about in this thread.
So no problem for new users to get rid of them with all the knowledge that we have here.

i still think your new workflow( -rstp maybe) and the new way of adjusting the voltages inside the adjustment ranges is the way to go to get the best result = less problems
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post #739 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

yes thats why i think its impossible to use any "new" recomended settings after the reset.

it gets more complicaded than it needs to be.

Do the reset with the DEFAULT voltages.

IF you get problems after the reset or want to tweak MLL even more.
Adjust some voltages INSIDE the adjustments ranges.

when you are done do another reset.

i think that Every single problem that you could possible get after the reset has been talked about in this thread.
So no problem for new users to get rid of them with all the knowledge that we have here.

Which is why i firmly believe that the non reset method must be tried first. All kuros react differently after being reset, so there is no standard way of resolving post reset issues. I guess I was lucky enough to only have to adjust rstp.
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post #740 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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semi off topic
was reading about buzzing problems for other brands.

has anyone noticed that you reduce the buzzing sound as soon as you set VOL SUS right while displaying a 100% white field?
if i set VOL SUS a tad lower it starts to scream

clean field= less buzzing
dirty field with magenta sparkles= higher buzzing

any theories why the buzzing sound is connected to VOL SUS?

i know that the right voltage to the transistors makes them more quiet.
can the magenta sparkles be connected with wrong voltages to the transistors?
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post #741 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 04:21 PM
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I just spent an hour in the SM trying to reset as discussed. I could not get a satisfactory balance between artifacts and black level. So I put everything back to defaults pre reset. I was happy with the way it looked before this last round of tweaking. The only variable that I can think of is hours collecting on the panel. I'm not going to make a judgement on my settings until the hours build up a bit.

The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye.
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post #742 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

I just spent an hour in the SM trying to reset as discussed. I could not get a satisfactory balance between artifacts and black level. So I put everything back to defaults pre reset. I was happy with the way it looked before this last round of tweaking. The only variable that I can think of is hours collecting on the panel. I'm not going to make a judgement on my settings until the hours build up a bit.

Yeah. Im starting to think the low hours on my panel made my reset headache free.
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post #743 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 10:39 PM
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I just reset my 101fd two more times with my method and got the same results. No artifacts post reset. Set rstp to 1 to get superb blacks and called it a day. I do have black rain (minor) but I can live with it.

I truly believe rstp is the cause for red tint, which is why i set it to 1 from the get go after the reset. I leave s1, s2 and s4 at default so I can have headroom if i need to make adjustments in the future.
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post #744 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 10:52 PM
 
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If you adjusted the necessary values to remove the black rain artifact, would you still qualify your levels as "OLED blacks?" This is one reason why I stated previously that working outside of the specs necessarily results in compromise. The same would be true for service menu adjustment of any TV ever manufactured.
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post #745 of 1347 Old 02-22-2014, 11:20 PM
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I was able to lower blacks even further by reducing s1, s3 and s4 to the point where I would classify them as oled blacks. However, black rain got worse. The difference in black levels didnt justify the increase in black rain, so I left s1, s3 and s4 at default. I think these settings will future proof my display against red tint (with rstp at 1) and black level rise, as i will have enough headroom to reduce s1, s3 and s4 if needed.

I wouldnt classify them as oled blacks with my current settings, as oled remains inky black even on a black field. They are pretty damn close though, especially when there is content on the screen.

Judging from the results posted on this thread, it seems that the higher the hour count, the more risky the reset.
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post #746 of 1347 Old 02-23-2014, 01:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
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If you adjusted the necessary values to remove the black rain artifact, would you still qualify your levels as "OLED blacks?"

So you still think we must have the black rain effect to get OLED blacks on regular content. ?
I bet you think we are sitting and watching movies with huge black lag/ black rain pouring all over the screen into a total mess just to have these OLED blacks ? haha.
No way a Kuro owner would sacrifice picture quality to get these blacks.
I think i can speak for everyone.

You just sitting and speculating and drawing conclusions.
You should see these OLED blacks live instead!

WOW! would be the word that would be coming from you. smile.gif
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post #747 of 1347 Old 02-23-2014, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

Yeah. Im starting to think the low hours on my panel made my reset headache free.

That too but I think that panel needs to accumulate some hours after the reset to start really seeing the benefit. That's been mentioned here. I also think we are all using different methods to check for black rain so I'm not sure how off my higher hour panel is to your lower hour panel.

Anybody know what the long term issues might be under-driving the panel in way that is showing black rain?

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post #748 of 1347 Old 02-23-2014, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Anybody know what the long term issues might be under-driving the panel in way that is showing black rain?

cant you get rid of black rain on regular content?
is it still Apple tv photos that is the problem?
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post #749 of 1347 Old 02-23-2014, 08:48 AM
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I've noticed it on credits this last reset. I'm not concerned with ATV photos anymore. smile.gif

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post #750 of 1347 Old 02-23-2014, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've noticed it on credits this last reset. I'm not concerned with ATV photos anymore. smile.gif

Ok then you must be really underdriving it.
I dont see it on the credits here.

It sounds like raising S3 and S4 +10 should be enough for you.
You should still have the same blacks.
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