Pioneer 8G 9G Kuro Reset Guide - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 10:58 AM
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Stu03 your right the two 6020 that I had work done on had a total of six boards replaced and it did not fix the main problem.the only thing it fix was the buzzing that the first 6020 I had
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post #1262 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 11:31 AM
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Well a brief update regarding my explorations into the service menu and adjustments! (Kuro 141fd ~ 60 inch with about 7500 hours on the clock)

Although the overall function of the plasma has been problem free I had become increasingly aware of both an
increase in overall black levels as well as a subtle background of redish tint in the blacks near the lowest levels
(of black/dark scenes)!

Neither of these were significant issues per say but it was becoming clear that my unit was. It up to its best performance.

I finally took the plunge and went into the service menu via Kuro Kontrol and the serial input (usb to serial adaptor) and as recommended adjusted ONLY values RSTp And s 1,2 - 3 , 4 (See post 1197 for particulars)

Outcome, very pleased indeed!

Even small value change in rstp resulted in improvements in the red tint issues and reductions in the s values (all well within spec range) has resulted in basically unmeasurable black levels (that is with my lumagen, calman5, eye one pro, I1DISPLAY PRO,C-3 home gear setup).

After making the adjustments re did my calibration, no doubt the new found black levels benefited from a redone grey scale, and a 3d lut through the lumagen and my kuro has never looked better, at least in my house!

The time required to do the actual tweak was only a few minutes (after several hours of forum study and assembling the various bits of hardware and software).

Greatly improved overall viewing experience!

Thank you all for your efforts and sharing your experiences,wink.gif
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post #1263 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcapprotti View Post

Stu03 your right the two 6020 that I had work done on had a total of six boards replaced and it did not fix the main problem.the only thing it fix was the buzzing that the first 6020 I had

Was that the PSU presumably causing the buzzing ?. There is a guy i am in touch with at the moment with regards to buzzing. Only the issue is he doesn't know for sure what is normal or not as he came from a Kuro LCD and hasn't heard any other Kuro plasma for reference and only got the Kuro recently...

Although he has a calibrator coming around soon for ISF and hopefully the guy can put his mind at rest - or not as the case may be smile.gif
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post #1264 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rcapprotti View Post

Stu03 your right the two 6020 that I had work done on had a total of six boards replaced and it did not fix the main problem.the only thing it fix was the buzzing that the first 6020 I had

The use for the board swap is not what you're using it for. One has nothing to do with the other.
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post #1265 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Well good luck with that.

But if you are unable to fix it then a engineer with appropriate experience of plasma displays will be able to adjust it correctly for you with the appropriate equipment in less than thirty minutes, without having to replace any components.

It's all just correct voltage adjustments at the end of the day, that's all it takes.

When i reset my 500A nearly two years ago now i spoke with someone on the phone who offered to come and fix it/adjust for me. But i was unwilling to shell out £200/$400 at the time as i was in the process of buying things for the flat after having just moved from Edinburgh.

That was for white misfires near black, as that was what was troubling me and the only artefact left over everything else was fine but after a couple of handy and helpful tips, i was able to work it out for myself, with a lot of patience and practice.

But tbh that was a perfectionists view - because it was only visible from less than a foot - in a pitch black room.

But anyone who has ever done this will understand that it is difficult to leave alone afterwards. Even when it's ten times better, clearer and with far more pop than when the panel was displaying red tint before the reset.

I have come to the conclusion that the IR and dithering that I see only on an all black screen is a result of the pulse meter not being in line with the actual age of the panel. I have zero artifacts with regards to purple or green sparkles and zero black rain when displaying menus, since my voltages are pretty much where they need to be. While there is a way to get voltages in line with the panel's age (by following the panel replacement flowcharts in the service menu with some modifications) there is NO way to manually adjust the pulse meter to be in line with the panel's age.

When a panel is replaced, a reset of the pulse meter is mandatory, as per the service manual. This takes care of one layer, as resetting the pulse meter brings it in line with the brand new replacement panels age - ZERO. The service manual then instructs to go through the voltage checks flowcharts (and recovery flowcharts if corrections are necessary) to ensure that voltages are set correctly, thus eliminating any sparklies.

When a reset of the pulse meter is performed without replacing the panel, then there is no way to match the pulse meter with the panel's age, other than replacing the panel with brand new one, though sparkles and black rain can be removed by adjusting voltages. I have tried increasing VOL SUS and RSTP and the IR and dithering remain, though their effects are not visible on regular content, only on an all black screen. Increasing RSTP to the point where my black level rivals and LCD is simply hiding the dithering and does absolutely nothing to remove the IR.

There is a reason why the service manual and well known Kuro experts agree that that the pulse meter should NOT be reset unless the panel is replaced. Its a lesson I learned the hard way, though am glad that my panel looks as good as stock when displaying content.

I believe those who are reporting reset success stories chalk it up as a success simply because their red tint is gone and they have managed to get rid of sparklies with voltage adjustments without knowing the ugly mess that lurks when displaying an all black screen (especially after having a greyscale window up for a couple of minutes). Not singling anyone out. I am guilty of the same, as I initially though my display was back to stock after resetting and voltage adjustments, only to discover the IR and dithering upon much, much closer examination.

If you believe reset is completely safe, then why not reset your current Kuro? I think there is an underlying reason why you sold your previous Kuro that you are not sharing. Why do I know this? Because I will be selling my 101fd if the digital board swap doesn't work. I will share the panel's history with prospective buyers because, like I said, it looks like a stock 101fd with regular content and the IR and dithering are only visible after very close inspection and are a rare occurrence.
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I think you need to come to terms that your PDP module is out of spec in relation to it's aging and the driving software and there is nothing you can do about it unless you either get a brand new PDP module or decrypt the firmware and regards resequence the pulse counter to be in line with your current panel age.

Form what I've gathered, the digital board stores information such as hours, max temp, power on count and pulse meter data. Replacing my current board with a board from a panel whose usage hours are close to mine is a way to get the pulse meter back in line (or close) with my panels age. All speculation at this point, but worth a shot, since board only cost 50 bucks.
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post #1266 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 12:09 PM
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Everyone who knows me knows i sold the 500A with 13,000 hrs because i was buying a 500M with 25hrs.

You just don't listen.

And for a start i have spoken to people with far more experience of plasma than you have ever just read about on a couple of threads and a misunderstanding of the service manuals.

I'm sorry makaveddie81 but i just can't take anything you say seriously. Because when you first started this stuff you were recommending tweaks only. But really didn't understand why. Then you were recommending reset only although you didn't really know why. Then it was tweaks only once again and you still didn't know why.

Now low and behold it's a board replacement. This could be the one straw that breaks the camels back.

Me i stuck with reset because it works and am competent enough to fix it afterwards.

Why on earth would i want to reset a fully functional 500M.

I know you are just looking for another one of your schoolboy arguments but on this occasion you will be found wanting.
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post #1267 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transendance View Post

Well a brief update regarding my explorations into the service menu and adjustments! (Kuro 141fd ~ 60 inch with about 7500 hours on the clock)

Although the overall function of the plasma has been problem free I had become increasingly aware of both an
increase in overall black levels as well as a subtle background of redish tint in the blacks near the lowest levels
(of black/dark scenes)!

Neither of these were significant issues per say but it was becoming clear that my unit was. It up to its best performance.

I finally took the plunge and went into the service menu via Kuro Kontrol and the serial input (usb to serial adaptor) and as recommended adjusted ONLY values RSTp And s 1,2 - 3 , 4 (See post 1197 for particulars)

Outcome, very pleased indeed!

Even small value change in rstp resulted in improvements in the red tint issues and reductions in the s values (all well within spec range) has resulted in basically unmeasurable black levels (that is with my lumagen, calman5, eye one pro, I1DISPLAY PRO,C-3 home gear setup).

After making the adjustments re did my calibration, no doubt the new found black levels benefited from a redone grey scale, and a 3d lut through the lumagen and my kuro has never looked better, at least in my house!

The time required to do the actual tweak was only a few minutes (after several hours of forum study and assembling the various bits of hardware and software).

Greatly improved overall viewing experience!

Thank you all for your efforts and sharing your experiences,wink.gif

You just described my voltage tweaking experience with my 141fd. 400 hours later and I see ZERO artifacts, ZERO IR, ZERO black rain while maintaining lower blacks. So I assure you, there are no rough waters ahead. I was unable to go down to the minimum voltages for s1, s3 and s4 (had to "settle" for 10 above the minimum). What were your final voltages?
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post #1268 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Everyone who knows me knows i sold the 500A with 13,000 hrs because i was buying a 500M with 25hrs.

You just don't listen.

And for a start i have spoken to people with far more experience of plasma than you have ever just read about on a couple of threads and a misunderstanding of the service manuals.

I'm sorry makaveddie81 but i just can't take anything you say seriously. Because when you first started this stuff you were recommending tweaks only. But really didn't understand why. Then you were recommending reset only although you didn't really know why. Then it was tweaks only once again and you still didn't know why.

Now low and behold it's a board replacement. This could be the one straw that breaks the camels back.

Me i stuck with reset because it works and am competent enough to fix it afterwards.

Why on earth would i want to reset a fully functional 500M.

I know you are just looking for another one of your schoolboy arguments but on this occasion you will be found wanting.

Please provide a quote when I recommended a RESET... PLEASE

Now, please tell my why YOU recommend resetting when the service manual specifically states to only reset the pulse meter when REPLACING THE PANEL. Nothing to misunderstand there.

Board replacement is only to replace the DAMAGE done by the RESET. Please re-read my post.

Again, if reset works and you are competent enough to fix it 100% then do so on your current display. Funny you wont do it, yet I TWEAKED my 141fd as soon as I got it home and plugged it in a couple of months ago. Seems to me you are not fully confident in reset.
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post #1269 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transendance View Post

Well a brief update regarding my explorations into the service menu and adjustments! (Kuro 141fd ~ 60 inch with about 7500 hours on the clock)

Although the overall function of the plasma has been problem free I had become increasingly aware of both an
increase in overall black levels as well as a subtle background of redish tint in the blacks near the lowest levels
(of black/dark scenes)!

Neither of these were significant issues per say but it was becoming clear that my unit was. It up to its best performance.

I finally took the plunge and went into the service menu via Kuro Kontrol and the serial input (usb to serial adaptor) and as recommended adjusted ONLY values RSTp And s 1,2 - 3 , 4 (See post 1197 for particulars)

Outcome, very pleased indeed!

Even small value change in rstp resulted in improvements in the red tint issues and reductions in the s values (all well within spec range) has resulted in basically unmeasurable black levels (that is with my lumagen, calman5, eye one pro, I1DISPLAY PRO,C-3 home gear setup).

After making the adjustments re did my calibration, no doubt the new found black levels benefited from a redone grey scale, and a 3d lut through the lumagen and my kuro has never looked better, at least in my house!

The time required to do the actual tweak was only a few minutes (after several hours of forum study and assembling the various bits of hardware and software).

Greatly improved overall viewing experience!

Thank you all for your efforts and sharing your experiences,wink.gif

Just realized post 1197 is the tweaking instructions I provided to you. Did you use the provided values or were you able to go a bit lower?
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post #1270 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 12:26 PM
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Nope professional engineers have reset and retweaked.

Listen.

A reset of an older panel is the same principle as a new panel. But because there are more hours on it the voltages will be a different set up from the voltages that it left the factory with.

Your insistence on OLED black is the only reason you cannot fix your display.

Pioneer put all voltage adjustments in the service menus for one reason and one reason only. Because these are the only ones required.

Now i was recommended to reset by someone who advises manufacturers for a living amongst other activities.

Why did Pioneer reset and re-adjust a guys display years ago if it was a "board" issue.

They needed permission from Pioneer to do so. No more and no less.
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Nope professional engineers have reset and retweaked.

Listen.

A reset of an older panel is the same principle as a new panel. But because there are more hours on it the voltages will be a different set up from the voltages that it left the factory with.

Your insistence on OLED black is the only reason you cannot fix your display.

Pioneer put all voltage adjustments in the service menus for one reason and one reason only. Because these are the only ones required.

Now i was recommended to reset by someone who advises manufacturers for a living amongst other activities.

Why did Pioneer reset and re-adjust a guys display years ago if it was a "board" issue.

They needed permission from Pioneer to do so. No more and no less.

Insistence on oled blacks? Im sorry but with my current voltages I am nowhere near oled blacks (i was actually much closer to that pre reset after tweaking only). At this moment, I have to put up the 30% avshd709 greyscale pattern for the black area to blend with the bezel. Pre reset and after tweaking, my blacks blended with the 10% avshd709 pattern. My current voltages are:

Sus 128
Offset 113
Rstp 18
S1 138
S3 128
S4 149
Sad 158
Ysus 126

If I was pursuing oled blacks I would have dropped rstp to 1 and lowered sad to 108. Not the case here. And before you chime in and say my voltages are still wrong, I already tried increasing sus and rstp and the IR and dithering remains.

One hack tech resetting some dudes panel (which you have no access to) doesnt make reset an official repair method.
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post #1272 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Nope professional engineers have reset and retweaked.

Listen.

A reset of an older panel is the same principle as a new panel. But because there are more hours on it the voltages will be a different set up from the voltages that it left the factory with.

Your insistence on OLED black is the only reason you cannot fix your display.

Pioneer put all voltage adjustments in the service menus for one reason and one reason only. Because these are the only ones required.

Now i was recommended to reset by someone who advises manufacturers for a living amongst other activities.

Why did Pioneer reset and re-adjust a guys display years ago if it was a "board" issue.

They needed permission from Pioneer to do so. No more and no less.

So tell me, why are there two layers to replacing a panel - pulse meter reset AND voltage tweaks. If voltage tweaks was all it took to get the panels electronics in line with a new panel, then why even reset the pulse meter when performing a panel replacement?
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post #1273 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Nope professional engineers have reset and retweaked.

Listen.

A reset of an older panel is the same principle as a new panel. But because there are more hours on it the voltages will be a different set up from the voltages that it left the factory with.

Your insistence on OLED black is the only reason you cannot fix your display.

Pioneer put all voltage adjustments in the service menus for one reason and one reason only. Because these are the only ones required.

Now i was recommended to reset by someone who advises manufacturers for a living amongst other activities.

Why did Pioneer reset and re-adjust a guys display years ago if it was a "board" issue.

They needed permission from Pioneer to do so. No more and no less.

Professional engineers build rockets too! None of us are pro techs Stu. We are DIYers. Nither you or anyone else has professionally gotten the volts correct. We know professional can do stuff beyond what everyone here can do including yourself. Saying pros can do it is common knowledge no?

Anyone can quote someone as a pro tech. Unless he is posting here sharing it's pretty silly isn't it to quote someone?

As far as pioneer adjusting someone's panel. I don't know what the issue was and I don't know what they did. Do you? Do you have the documention of all the steps they did? I truly would like to read that.


Please if you don't understand what the board swap is about please stop knocking it and posting facts that truly are false. Has nothing to do with issues.

The board swap is a place marker to hold the PRO SETTINGS that nobody can reproduce unless you are a PRO. Which excludes you Stu and me. I stand by my recommendation. If you want to reset and want to hold your pre settings safely. Swap boards so you can always go back to PRO Adjustments.

It's like saving all your files on a HDD. Then swapping HDD. Formatting (reset) the new HDD and doing whatever you like. But always having your files safe backup. No more no less. It's logical to me. And no I haven't been disappointed. I have owned 9 kuros. And have done board swaps one three for testing purposes. All which are back to PRO settings because of board swaps.

I have nothing against you stu. But from my own hands on experience my outcomes are very difference from what you post. Which is fine. So please have a great day!
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post #1274 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 12:48 PM
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That is exactly what you did not so long ago. Drop RSTP to one.

What i don't understand is why not just give the phosphors what they need to drive properly after reset (without misfiring, or blotches to be precise).

What is to be achieved by not - except frustration if unable to live with under driving artefacts.

If a plasma isn't driven where required it (will) display misfiring. That is reset, or no reset/tweaks.

If a reset or otherwise plasma is behaving like new - then what is wrong with that.
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post #1275 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 12:51 PM
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And shockfett - here we are again.

I promise you the board swap isn't the answer. Or professionals - techs or otherwise (would) have done it before you.

Can't be nice to hear though.
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And instead of living in the little thread world - spread your wings a little where the facts are. Because suggesting that anyone who dare say they have found success - be it by Pioneer techs or anyone else just because it's not what you want to hear just because of an inability to do it yourself doesn't mean it's incorrect shockfett.

That is schoolboy stuff.
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

And shockfett - here we are again.

I promise you the board swap isn't the answer. Or professionals - techs or otherwise (would) have done it before you.

Can't be nice to hear though.

The answer to what? Explain?

My ego isn't as big as yours. I can admit I'm not a pro. Which in your case idk. You read a lot and quote a lot. And have experience in none if it. It's like asking you what it feels like to play on the Super Bowl. Your response " best feeling ever!"
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

And instead of living in the little thread world - spread your wings a little where the facts are. Because suggesting that anyone who dare say they have found success - be it by Pioneer techs or anyone else just because it's not what you want to hear just because of an inability to do it yourself doesn't mean it's incorrect shockfett.

That is schoolboy stuff.

Found success in what? What exactly are you referring to?
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

That is exactly what you did not so long ago. Drop RSTP to one.

What i don't understand is why not just give the phosphors what they need to drive properly after reset (without misfiring, or blotches to be precise).

What is to be achieved by not - except frustration if unable to live with under driving artefacts.

If a plasma isn't driven where required it (will) display misfiring. That is reset, or no reset/tweaks.

If a reset or otherwise plasma is behaving like new - then what is wrong with that.

What part of rstp being at 18 and even increasing it as a repair attempt dont you understand?

I dont have misfires, those were removed by increasing sad and decreasig ysus to 126 (or increasing vol sus to 168). My problem is IR and dithering on black screen.
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post #1280 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ShockFett View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

And shockfett - here we are again.

I promise you the board swap isn't the answer. Or professionals - techs or otherwise (would) have done it before you.

Can't be nice to hear though.

The answer to what? Explain?

My ego isn't as big as yours. I can admit I'm not a pro. Which in your case idk. You read a lot and quote a lot. And have experience in none if it. It's like asking you what it feels like to play on the Super Bowl. Your response " best feeling ever!"

It's not about ego's surely though. A difference of opinion if not a robot slave is allowed no ?.

If i have found success with reset and re-adjustments as others undoubtedly have - before me - and after - then what is the big deal in your opinion. I don't understand.

It's like well - at least you tried.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

That is exactly what you did not so long ago. Drop RSTP to one.

What i don't understand is why not just give the phosphors what they need to drive properly after reset (without misfiring, or blotches to be precise).

What is to be achieved by not - except frustration if unable to live with under driving artefacts.

If a plasma isn't driven where required it (will) display misfiring. That is reset, or no reset/tweaks.

If a reset or otherwise plasma is behaving like new - then what is wrong with that.

What part of rstp being at 18 and even increasing it as a repair attempt dont you understand?

I dont have misfires, those were removed by increasing sad and decreasig ysus to 126 (or increasing vol sus to 168). My problem is IR and dithering on black screen.

Dithering - what colour is your dithering ?
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

It's not about ego's surely though. A difference of opinion if not a robot slave is allowed no ?.

If i have found success with reset and re-adjustments as others undoubtedly have - before me - and after - then what is the big deal in your opinion. I don't understand.

It's like well - at least you tried.

Exactly! Read all my post! I always congrat people who succeed. I'm happy for them. I am a realist too. I do know a lot also come with issues. Thousands of post about reset issues don't lie. Are some successful sure. Glad for them!

Again board swapping is not the answer to what???
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post #1283 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 01:29 PM
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Thousands.

Slight exaggeration there i think.

People who have tweaked only with misfires and a returning red tint with no more headroom left for tweaking, don't lie either.

Because where are all the people who reset over two years ago now.

Exactly, just getting on with their displays whom they fixed themselves.
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post #1284 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 01:30 PM
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Thousands.

Slight exaggeration there i think.

People who have tweaked only with misfires and a returning red tint with no more headroom left for tweaking, don't lie either.

Because where are all the people who reset over two years ago now.

Exactly, just getting on with their displays whom they fixed themselves.

Board swap is not the answer to what?
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post #1285 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 01:34 PM
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Shockfett I was not using the board swap for anything the service tech that pioneer sent out was doing the board swaps not me. They replaced four boards on the first 6020 and then replace the TV. And then two more on the second 6020 and it didn't fix either one after the first board on each tv I think they were just guessing at that point.so I paid extra and upgraded to the 151 and so far no problems. As far as fixing the buzzing on the first TV that wasn't really one of my complaints but after they put in a power board in the buzzing all but stop
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post #1286 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 01:37 PM
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Again ?... Why don't you explain...

Board swapping is the answer to what exactly ? - please do tell why the people who fix tv's for a living "lied" to me about offering to re-adjust a reset display - and for some reason decided to keep the board swap "secret" which would have meant more money for them in the first place.

:lease:
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Again ?... Why don't you explain...

Board swapping is the answer to what exactly ? - please do tell why the people who fix tv's for a living "lied" to me about offering to re-adjust a reset display - and for some reason decided to keep the board swap "secret" which would have meant more money for them in the first place.

:lease:

Exactly move along.... You're irrelevant!
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post #1288 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 01:41 PM
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Initial. > current.
Rstp- 34 > 02
S1 - 86 > 71
S2 - 96 > 81
S4 - 143 > 128

Your numbers .................."(I ended up using 61, 71, 117)" and rstp( 01 - 02 I guess!)

Still a little conservative perhaps but I found that although I could go much lower, so around your values
I could pick up some slight artifacting when I got very close to the screen (grey levels around 5 ~ or so, very close to black, showed some sort of "business or busy ness" at "nose distance" from the screen.

I'm still playing a bit but since in a dark room I am not able to visually detect any further benefits in going lower (in fact I relied on one the meters to make some of the Distinctions,) I saw no point in pushing to lower values at this point.

Oled black, perhaps not so much, but in real world viewing, even in a unlit or very very dimly lit room with my eyes I am unable to differentiate Between the bezel and the on screen letter box blacks! Also contrast ratios reported in calman have gone from reporting around 40,000:1 contrast ratios to absurd values > 1,000,000:1.

Not bad, and good enough for me, for now.

Thanks again for your support, and emphasizing ....Not To Reset! I feel fortunate to not have opened that can of worms! T.
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Shockfett I was not using the board swap for anything the service tech that pioneer sent out was doing the board swaps not me. They replaced four boards on the first 6020 and then replace the TV. And then two more on the second 6020 and it didn't fix either one after the first board on each tv I think they were just guessing at that point.so I paid extra and upgraded to the 151 and so far no problems. As far as fixing the buzzing on the first TV that wasn't really one of my complaints but after they put in a power board in the buzzing all but stop

Yeah most likely the were guessing. The board swap I refer to is just to keep your setting safe before a reset. Once you erase those you can't get them back. It's not for fixing issues you have prior. What you had was a servicing. Which is for totally different usage. Congrats on your new 151 smile.gif. I just bought one from Naples with 1k hours on it smile.gif
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post #1290 of 1415 Old 05-29-2014, 01:57 PM
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Can't get what back...?

You are trying to find reasons for turning this into some sort of rocket science.

Did you delete eeprom amongst other things shockfett rotfl ?

Reset is not for the incompetent scaremongers shockfett. Simple as that. Anyone who reset and (got real) afterwards fixed their displays simple as that.
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