Pioneer 8G 9G Kuro Reset Guide - Page 45 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1321 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 06:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Shockfett

You do actually know that in the service menu in ETC that EEPROM is an option - which can be highlighted like everything else (individually) don't you ?

Again please explain where i have missed in the service manual where it recommends clearing EEPROM with the other six clearance procedure logs ?

You can clear EEPROM without resetting via the ETC+ menu but you CANNOT reset without clearing EEPROM as it is cleared automatically when you power off and power on the display, as instructed in the service manual. Got it?
vinnie97 likes this.
makaveddie81 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1322 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 06:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 133
While were at it, page 51 of the 101fd manual states that voltage adjustments CAN be used to repair abnormalities, instructing the user to move forward with the panel replacement voltage adjustment flowcharts WITHOUT RESETTING THE HOUR AND PULSE METER. See attached screenshot.

Looking forward to see how you ignore, or better yet spin, this one, Stu.

vinnie97 likes this.
makaveddie81 is offline  
post #1323 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 06:23 PM
Senior Member
 
ShockFett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Shockfett

You do actually know that in the service menu in ETC that EEPROM is an option - which can be highlighted and cleared like everything else (individually) don't you ?

Again please explain where i have missed in the service manual where it recommends clearing EEPROM with the other six clearance procedure logs ?

Or more to the point by not clearing EEPROM why i and others have reset successfully and no issues thousands of hours down the road.

Stu!

EPPROM is what you are clearing with those commands. But individually. Do I need to explain that too?

How did you not delete EPPROM with those commands.

This is pointless Stu. You don't understand technical things. I just showed you in the manual and you still can't comprehend it.
ShockFett is offline  
post #1324 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 06:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Stu03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kingdom of Fife, Scotland.
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Of course i understand it shockfett.

But everyone isn't putting a new or used digital board into the Kuro are they.

Just like they are not replacing a brand new panel for service every time.
Stu03 is offline  
post #1325 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 06:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Stu03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kingdom of Fife, Scotland.
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 167
But what i don't understand is and you need to explain to me (and people who always recommend not to reset eeprom originally)

Is why has it just not got a delete EEPROM option (but nothing else in the timing control layer)... if it clears everything anyway, by resetting only say for example - the pulse meter on it's own.

In your own words please... Because a few people who should know better - may be interested in reading this from you...
Stu03 is offline  
post #1326 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 06:53 PM
Senior Member
 
ShockFett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Of course i understand it shockfett.

But everyone isn't putting a new or used digital board into the Kuro are they.

Just like they are not replacing a brand new panel for service every time.

No they are not and you and everyone else has cleared EPPROM. When the pros you quote all the time told you not to. Yet from your lack of understanding you cleared it and told others to as well. And then tell me that you reset without erasing it! And of course you understand, you proved that! 😂

And that's the point of the board swap. To not lose your EEPROM. We are light years ahead of you Mr. 2 years!

I know it's painful to hear that!
vinnie97 and makaveddie81 like this.
ShockFett is offline  
post #1327 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 07:00 PM
Senior Member
 
ShockFett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

But what i don't understand is and you need to explain to me (and people who always recommend not to reset eeprom originally)

Is why has it just not got a delete EEPROM option (but nothing else in the timing control layer)... if it clears everything anyway, by resetting only say for example - the pulse meter on it's own.

In your own words please... Because a few people who should know better - may be interested in reading this from you...

Are we done pissing? Can we actually start working together and figure more out?

Please retype your question I don't understand it clearly?
ShockFett is offline  
post #1328 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 07:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Stu03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kingdom of Fife, Scotland.
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Not really. Because you didn't manage to fix your own Kuro did you with your own adjustments post reset. Why not... But myself and others have with a full reset we will call it now... With a clearance of eeprom.

You said so yourself so why would i have to take your word for it. It's all really just words (and only your word alone).

It doesn't explain why people advised (not touching eeprom originally) to me though really does it.

Are you suggesting that it was some sort of secret no one was to know about.

Why would they not say well heck it doesn't matter Stuart - by resetting the six logs - you fully reset eeprom anyway.

But not even after the fact - if it didn't matter anyway - but made out it did ?.

It doesn't make much sense.

But there is nothing wrong in taking advice from someone with knowledge in the field.

Or so i thought.
Stu03 is offline  
post #1329 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 07:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Stu03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kingdom of Fife, Scotland.
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 167
But what is to figure out shockfett. After a reset optimal voltages (must) still be found anyway... Just like optimal voltages were supposed to be found individually before it left the factory.

Or even with tweaks for red tint - optimal voltages must still be found. Or people tweaking for black levels - optimal voltages must still be found.

A clearance of six logs (full reset according to the manual) - or in your own words - a clearance of EEPROM we have discovered now...
Stu03 is offline  
post #1330 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 07:35 PM
Senior Member
 
ShockFett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post


A clearance of six logs (full reset according to the manual) - or in your own words - a clearance of EEPROM we have discovered now...

You really didn't discover anything. You were told.
ShockFett is offline  
post #1331 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 07:42 PM
Senior Member
 
ShockFett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Not really. Because you didn't manage to fix your own Kuro did you with your own adjustments post reset. Why not... But myself and others have with a full reset we will call it now... With a clearance of eeprom.

You said so yourself so why would i have to take your word for it. It's all really just words (and only your word alone).

It doesn't explain why people advised (not touching eeprom originally) to me though really does it.

Are you suggesting that it was some sort of secret no one was to know about.

Why would they not say well heck it doesn't matter Stuart - by resetting the six logs - you fully reset eeprom anyway.

But not even after the fact - if it didn't matter anyway - but made out it did ?.

It doesn't make much sense.

But there is nothing wrong in taking advice from someone with knowledge in the field.

Or so i thought.

I have a successful reset under my belt. So we are now in the same club. How about that! Guess you're not the only competent genius in the group.

I don't know or care what doesn't make sense to you or what someone told you or didn't tell you. What doesn't make sense are your replies. It's one big smoke screen after the other.

It's not my own words. It's words right from the manual you so desperately and proudly ask for.

Now that it has been proven to you. You still continue your rants of truly nothing. Rather sad.

Why you never apologize for your superiority complex. Maybe that's the question you should ask.
vinnie97 and makaveddie81 like this.
ShockFett is offline  
post #1332 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 07:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Stu03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kingdom of Fife, Scotland.
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Anyway as i have explained - even after resetting six logs - which i did a few times on my guinea pig Kuro.

I was told quite clearly shockfett, not to clear the EEPROM too. I have spent a couple of hours at least asking questions in the past with phone calls, emails, PM's etc etc and obviously this question has arisen before.

I have sent a couple of polite emails as we speak to explain why not, as in the past i just took their word for it without being too noswy and pushing my luck.
I am waiting a reply, if i find out anything relevant i shall share the information as i am quite delighted to learn new tricks. As like anyone else in the past have been frustrated with red tint etc and even though i have seemingly repaired mine and helped others still love learn and am not ashamed to find anything out which may help others and myself learn something along the way.

As there is no guarantee my 500M won't suffer the same fate in the future with red tint as my last KRP did and i would like to know for next time if that day comes what course of action i should take then :thumbup:
Stu03 is offline  
post #1333 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 08:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Stu03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kingdom of Fife, Scotland.
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 167
And by the way. Do you always have to be so rude shockfett ^^. Always trying to prove something.

Me i have always been straight forward about saying i have learnt from others in the past who i asked for advice. A person on here actually who was the first to do a six log clearance.

I only took advice from people who fixed their screens before me though and who gave me voltage advice. And shared that around and never made any secret about that.

Yeah all screens behave differently reset or tweaks only - so people still have to work out themselves what is optimal voltages for themselves regardless.

Even you lol ^^
Stu03 is offline  
post #1334 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 08:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Anyway as i have explained - even after resetting six logs - which i did a few times on my guinea pig Kuro.

I was told quite clearly shockfett, not to clear the EEPROM too. I have spent a couple of hours at least asking questions in the past with phone calls, emails, PM's etc etc and obviously this question has arisen before.

I have sent a couple of polite emails as we speak to explain why not, as in the past i just took their word for it without being too noswy and pushing my luck.
I am waiting a reply, if i find out anything relevant i shall share the information as i am quite delighted to learn new tricks. As like anyone else in the past have been frustrated with red tint etc and even though i have seemingly repaired mine and helped others still love learn and am not ashamed to find anything out which may help others and myself learn something along the way.

As there is no guarantee my 500M won't suffer the same fate in the future with red tint as my last KRP did and i would like to know for next time if that day comes what course of action i should take then :thumbup:

I am going to heed your advise and get in contact with a knowledgeable engineer. Please extend a helping hand and provide their names and contact information, as you seem to know quite a few Pioneer Engineers. Will patiently wait for response.
makaveddie81 is offline  
post #1335 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 08:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Stu03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kingdom of Fife, Scotland.
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Why don't you use your initiative.

You and shockfett like talking me down (try to anyway biggrin.gif) This constant two VS one is becoming quite a bore actually. But do carry on if that's your wont.

Why not try do some research of your own and i might "try" and learn something worthwhile from you.

Because asking publicly about someone else's private correspondence is classed basically as rude where i come from.
Stu03 is offline  
post #1336 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 08:41 PM
Senior Member
 
ShockFett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

And by the way. Do you always have to be so rude shockfett ^^. Always trying to prove something.

Me i have always been straight forward about saying i have learnt from others in the past who i asked for advice. A person on here actually who was the first to do a six log clearance.

I only took advice from people who fixed their screens before me though and who gave me voltage advice. And shared that around and never made any secret about that.

Yeah all screens behave differently reset or tweaks only - so people still have to work out themselves what is optimal voltages for themselves regardless.

Even you lol ^^

I apologize if I was rude.


Yes we certainly learn a lot from others.
ShockFett is offline  
post #1337 of 1420 Old 05-29-2014, 09:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Stu03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kingdom of Fife, Scotland.
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 167
There won't ever be no learning left to do in this reset/tweaks/voltages/algorithms carry on.

Because basically not one panel will behave in an exact same way as the next and never will so nothing is exactly like the next. That was the case when they left the factory and even more so now because of different...

Hours,

Hours,

Hours,

And on to infinity dear fellows

Lol.
Stu03 is offline  
post #1338 of 1420 Old 05-30-2014, 06:23 AM
Member
 
lnarbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: France
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 18

An interesting thing that I found out on my second kuro...

 

Its RSTP was at 33 (all other voltages were standard).

Just to check it out, I put it to 0 and power cycled the TV, and it went back to 18, not 33.

 

The service menu was never accessed before I did, and the screen of course never reset.

But fact is the default RSTP value of the board, wasn't the factory value put in there by the factory.

 

The factory reset was done more than 5 hours from new, it might be interesting to know if kuro owners with "non standard" RSTP values have a higher than normal total hour meter (normal is around 2 hours).

 

Another advice for the Oppo 10x and cambridge users, disable the upscale by switching to source direct resolution on the player and let the TV do the upscale if needed, any other setting affects gamma. The difference is easily seen on the sandstorm scene in prometheus, or with the black clipping pattern.

HDMI2 gives better sharpness with default settings too, as the qdeo chip has an undefeatable noise reduction, even in source direct mode.

lnarbi is offline  
post #1339 of 1420 Old 05-30-2014, 08:58 AM
Senior Member
 
ShockFett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post

An interesting thing that I found out on my second kuro...

Its RSTP was at 33 (all other voltages were standard).
Just to check it out, I put it to 0 and power cycled the TV, and it went back to 18, not 33.

The service menu was never accessed before I did, and the screen of course never reset.
But fact is the default RSTP value of the board, wasn't the factory value put in there by the factory.

The factory reset was done more than 5 hours from new, it might be interesting to know if kuro owners with "non standard" RSTP values have a higher than normal total hour meter (normal is around 2 hours).

Another advice for the Oppo 10x and cambridge users, disable the upscale by switching to source direct resolution on the player and let the TV do the upscale if needed, any other setting affects gamma. The difference is easily seen on the sandstorm scene in prometheus, or with the black clipping pattern.
HDMI2 gives better sharpness with default settings too, as the qdeo chip has an undefeatable noise reduction, even in source direct mode.

I have a 105. I have always had those settings. I will have to change it up to see the difference so I can always spot it. What scene exactly? When they are escaping on the 4 wheelers?
ShockFett is offline  
post #1340 of 1420 Old 05-30-2014, 09:10 AM
Member
 
lnarbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: France
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 18

Yes this one.

lnarbi is offline  
post #1341 of 1420 Old 05-30-2014, 10:47 AM
Super Moderator
 
markrubin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 22,928
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 369
thread cleanup
craigyboy and Stu03 like this.
markrubin is offline  
post #1342 of 1420 Old 07-11-2014, 06:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Stu03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kingdom of Fife, Scotland.
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Here are my reasons for (not) deleting/clearing EEPROM when re-setting my old/ex 500A for the red tint.

Yes when you reset (six logs) you are clearing certain logs listed here... PD INFO, SD INFO, HR MTR INFO, PM/B1-B5, P COUNT INFO, and MAX TEMP.

But it (isn't) the same as clearing EEPROM.

With clearing EEPROM you are clearing the above but you are also deleting your margin adjustment values like for starters VSUS and OFFSET.

Also gone are your power limit adjustment values (ABL)... Also gone are all the panel white adjustment values - RGB HIGH's and LOW's.

But most worryingly you are deleting all your Drive waveform values - all your X'SUS's and Y'SUS's - perhaps more...

In short - if you are performing a reset and you don't have or need a new digital assembly - do (not) delete EEPROM.

Last edited by Stu03; 07-11-2014 at 06:16 AM.
Stu03 is offline  
post #1343 of 1420 Old 07-11-2014, 10:13 AM
Senior Member
 
jerrolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I dont know how to search the thread in particular - but my bro just picked up a Kuro 5080HD (8G) and im wondering if the thread has and conversations about that tv being reset.

Ordering a RS232 cable from amazon is like $3 so i figure its worth the shot

Just wondering if the menu layout is really different
jerrolds is offline  
post #1344 of 1420 Old 07-12-2014, 07:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Stu03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kingdom of Fife, Scotland.
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrolds View Post
I dont know how to search the thread in particular - but my bro just picked up a Kuro 5080HD (8G) and im wondering if the thread has and conversations about that tv being reset.

Ordering a RS232 cable from amazon is like $3 so i figure its worth the shot

Just wondering if the menu layout is really different
The voltage numbers are very different with 8 and 9G.

Although the basic principles remain very similar - as are the 8&9G tv version of the service menu similar.

A reset should always be the last option though. Is it red tint the 5080 has presumably ?
Stu03 is offline  
post #1345 of 1420 Old 07-12-2014, 12:56 PM
Member
 
lnarbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: France
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I had a closer look tonight on my reset LX5090H.
It is now around the 500 hours mark, and I can't spot any black rain anymore, and the temporary IR seems to have gone back to normal (like it may happen on my other non reset display, no less, no more).

My only tweaks were FSAD and VSUS at 135 both.

I had an i1 pro for a week and calibrated both displays the best I could, and at the time it's really hard to see any difference between both displays.

This is the way I calibrated them, with calman...


First set brightness with the S&M low pluge pattern, find the brightness value where the black squares appear on the background, one point down you don't see them anymore, 1 up they're here again, that's your brightness value.

Then we will only use the AVS HD calman APL patterns, only the small ones, to not trigger ABL.

Find your contrast value for ISF Night measuring the 100% white pattern in 11-step grayscale small, aim for 30 ftL, that's 18 contrast on mine.

Then, step up to the grayscale window on calman, select 100 on the slider, and measure the 100% white again. Then change R-High and B-High values to get the lowest delta-E achievable. Don't touch green.
Measure the whole greyscale starting with the 100% white, then 20% (click the 20 on the slider) and so on until back to 100 at last. All your readings should be under 1 deltaE. Check the low end (20-40) and if red or blue are tracking higher than the other 2 ones, try to lower R-Low or B-Low 1 click to see if it tracks better. Then check your high luminance values to see what happens, and modify R-High and/or B-High accordingly, you may find several combination that work well enough, try them all viewing content, especially with low APL and pickup the one that looks best overall.

Then move on to gamut calibration, switch to 75% colors small on patterns, read 100% white while clicking the 100W button in calman, then click white, and read 75% grey, click red and read 75% red.
Then look at the gamut luminance, red should be negative value, around -2 or even closer to 0, your color setting is set right. If red is positive, lower color, if red is around -4 or even lower, raise color, find the closest to 0 but still negative value and keep your color value where it is.
Your luminances values on every colors should all be between 1 deltaE difference between them.

If you want to touch CMS you can try to find the best combo where deltaL is the most even, and low for every colors, and where the deltaC and deltaH are the lowest overall.
I don't really have understand the logic behind the CMS and how to handle them, as each setting affects the others.
Note that blue will always have the highest global deltaE and will skyrocket between 8 and 10 in deltaC.
Do not ever go more than 2 clicks on either side in the CMS.

Here are my readings with an untouched CMS, on my reset display :





It's not as perfect as the d-nice charts, but I find it good enough considering I used a colorimeter to calibrate, and not a Photo Reseach spectro, so results are always a bit off. Trying to get it perfect from the i1 perspective, could in fact result in worse end result.

My ISF settings are :

Brightness : +1
Contrast : 18
R-High : -3
B-High : +2
R-Low : -1
Color : +4

Everything else to 0, and like d-nice settings for the usual ones.



To calibrate the integrated tuner, I converted the AVS HD patterns to 1080i 50Hz with Sony Vegas, and forced the bluray player to output 1080i to trigger simulate the 50Hz broadcast in Europe, and calibrated the same way as before (greyscale is completely different), to copy the settings to the tuner input with controlcal.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by lnarbi; 07-12-2014 at 12:59 PM.
lnarbi is offline  
post #1346 of 1420 Old 07-12-2014, 06:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
I had a closer look tonight on my reset LX5090H.
It is now around the 500 hours mark, and I can't spot any black rain anymore, and the temporary IR seems to have gone back to normal (like it may happen on my other non reset display, no less, no more).

My only tweaks were FSAD and VSUS at 135 both.

I had an i1 pro for a week and calibrated both displays the best I could, and at the time it's really hard to see any difference between both displays.

This is the way I calibrated them, with calman...


First set brightness with the S&M low pluge pattern, find the brightness value where the black squares appear on the background, one point down you don't see them anymore, 1 up they're here again, that's your brightness value.

Then we will only use the AVS HD calman APL patterns, only the small ones, to not trigger ABL.

Find your contrast value for ISF Night measuring the 100% white pattern in 11-step grayscale small, aim for 30 ftL, that's 18 contrast on mine.

Then, step up to the grayscale window on calman, select 100 on the slider, and measure the 100% white again. Then change R-High and B-High values to get the lowest delta-E achievable. Don't touch green.
Measure the whole greyscale starting with the 100% white, then 20% (click the 20 on the slider) and so on until back to 100 at last. All your readings should be under 1 deltaE. Check the low end (20-40) and if red or blue are tracking higher than the other 2 ones, try to lower R-Low or B-Low 1 click to see if it tracks better. Then check your high luminance values to see what happens, and modify R-High and/or B-High accordingly, you may find several combination that work well enough, try them all viewing content, especially with low APL and pickup the one that looks best overall.

Then move on to gamut calibration, switch to 75% colors small on patterns, read 100% white while clicking the 100W button in calman, then click white, and read 75% grey, click red and read 75% red.
Then look at the gamut luminance, red should be negative value, around -2 or even closer to 0, your color setting is set right. If red is positive, lower color, if red is around -4 or even lower, raise color, find the closest to 0 but still negative value and keep your color value where it is.
Your luminances values on every colors should all be between 1 deltaE difference between them.

If you want to touch CMS you can try to find the best combo where deltaL is the most even, and low for every colors, and where the deltaC and deltaH are the lowest overall.
I don't really have understand the logic behind the CMS and how to handle them, as each setting affects the others.
Note that blue will always have the highest global deltaE and will skyrocket between 8 and 10 in deltaC.
Do not ever go more than 2 clicks on either side in the CMS.

Here are my readings with an untouched CMS, on my reset display :





It's not as perfect as the d-nice charts, but I find it good enough considering I used a colorimeter to calibrate, and not a Photo Reseach spectro, so results are always a bit off. Trying to get it perfect from the i1 perspective, could in fact result in worse end result.

My ISF settings are :

Brightness : +1
Contrast : 18
R-High : -3
B-High : +2
R-Low : -1
Color : +4

Everything else to 0, and like d-nice settings for the usual ones.



To calibrate the integrated tuner, I converted the AVS HD patterns to 1080i 50Hz with Sony Vegas, and forced the bluray player to output 1080i to trigger simulate the 50Hz broadcast in Europe, and calibrated the same way as before (greyscale is completely different), to copy the settings to the tuner input with controlcal.

Hope this helps.
How does an all black screen look? Does it look like static noise or perfectly uniform?
makaveddie81 is offline  
post #1347 of 1420 Old 07-12-2014, 11:54 PM
Member
 
lnarbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: France
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Very little noise that makes the MLL normal glow, like on every Kuro I've seen, with an input and a not all black screen, like the 0% pattern in calman, and nose on the screen.
Without input no European LX is uniform and always keep a little bit of after image, and this too is on every LX I've seen, is normal, and part of the tech. KRPs are better in that regard.

Don't try to remove these effects, you won't ever be able to completely.
lnarbi is offline  
post #1348 of 1420 Old 07-21-2014, 08:37 AM
Member
 
lnarbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: France
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I did some additional research since last time, trying to get the best possible calibration and discovered a new thing.
I was trying to get rid of some weird color push that would appear in some lights, some movies/shows, but not every time.
I was trying to find out why the picture although being nice, didn't give a relaxing experience when watching TV, after sometime, I didn't get a headache, but I was somewhere between the headache and being relaxed.

The last issue was fixed at the moment I've put RSTP back to it's original setting (not the factory default one you get when you set it to 0, the right one, setup at the factory). From that moment getting the right MLL for the panel got me the low APL colors accurate and a very relaxing picture.

The first issue about the weird push in lights, got away when I've put VSUS and FSAD back to 128... I got more detailed colors and a better gain in sharpness than what I found while using the CMS.

Black rain has not come back at default settings, neither IR.
The displays needs 500 hours to settle in after a reset, like an all new panel, and every SM adjustment made before that won't be helpful at all as the panel is over driven during that time.

My findings tell the same way that bumtious did, don't mess up with the voltages, it will mess up the picture, to an extent there's no way a right calibration can get it back. The only thing to hope after a reset is to not have misfires (visible from viewing distance), if you have, and still have after 500 hours, you're screwed and have to adjust, and will never get a full working panel again... Satisfying ? Maybe... Fully working as original out of the box, you won't.

The most crucial for an enjoying experience is RSTP, it MUST stay where it was.

The only thing I don't know is... when you reset, is this RSTP value adjustment maintained internally, or is it reset internally to let's say 016, while the SM still shows let's say 028...
To be sure of that I'd say, before reset, write down RSTP number, put it to 0, restart to have it on the board's default value, then do the reset. After the reset, put it back to the value it had.
lnarbi is offline  
post #1349 of 1420 Old 07-21-2014, 01:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
makaveddie81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
I did some additional research since last time, trying to get the best possible calibration and discovered a new thing.
I was trying to get rid of some weird color push that would appear in some lights, some movies/shows, but not every time.
I was trying to find out why the picture although being nice, didn't give a relaxing experience when watching TV, after sometime, I didn't get a headache, but I was somewhere between the headache and being relaxed.

The last issue was fixed at the moment I've put RSTP back to it's original setting (not the factory default one you get when you set it to 0, the right one, setup at the factory). From that moment getting the right MLL for the panel got me the low APL colors accurate and a very relaxing picture.

The first issue about the weird push in lights, got away when I've put VSUS and FSAD back to 128... I got more detailed colors and a better gain in sharpness than what I found while using the CMS.

Black rain has not come back at default settings, neither IR.
The displays needs 500 hours to settle in after a reset, like an all new panel, and every SM adjustment made before that won't be helpful at all as the panel is over driven during that time.

My findings tell the same way that bumtious did, don't mess up with the voltages, it will mess up the picture, to an extent there's no way a right calibration can get it back. The only thing to hope after a reset is to not have misfires (visible from viewing distance), if you have, and still have after 500 hours, you're screwed and have to adjust, and will never get a full working panel again... Satisfying ? Maybe... Fully working as original out of the box, you won't.

The most crucial for an enjoying experience is RSTP, it MUST stay where it was.

The only thing I don't know is... when you reset, is this RSTP value adjustment maintained internally, or is it reset internally to let's say 016, while the SM still shows let's say 028...
To be sure of that I'd say, before reset, write down RSTP number, put it to 0, restart to have it on the board's default value, then do the reset. After the reset, put it back to the value it had.
I am at 225 hours after reset and black rain has completely gone away, even if I set RSTP to 1. 50 usage hours ago, that was not the case, as anything below RSTP 18 caused noticeable black rain.

White sparkles on black and near black have vanished in a blink of an eye. I still had them at about the 210 hour mark from what I remember, and now they are completely gone.

IR has improved to the point where I don't see it on regular content (Kuro Demo is best way to test for this). I can still see some IR when going to black, but its not as prominent as it was fresh after reset. An all black screen still looks like static noise, but not to the extent to what it looked like right after reset. I would say these two items are about 50% from being completely eliminated.

The key to reset is to get past the point where the voltage correction algorithm is the most aggressive and is over driving the panel. Although number of hours can be used as a guide to determine this point, I believe the number of pulses is a more accurate way to do so, as the service manual specifies that voltage corrections are performed according to pulse meter. You can reset hour hours all you want and it wont do a thing, just like resetting the odometer on a car won't change the actual usage and wear and tear on it. That point might very well be around the 500 hour mark, but what we should really be looking at is the pulse meter counts.

I have been checking and adjusting voltages at each 50 hour mark and I can definitely tell you VOL SUS changes over time (at least during the first 200 hours). My starting point, determined using the service manual flowchart, was 158 right after reset. While aging with D-Nice's slides and sport settings, I noticed a stuck pixel on the green slides (which was not there initially) at about the 50 hour mark. Increasing VOL SUS to 168 removed the stuck pixel. At around the 150 hour mark, I noticed the stuck pixel again. An increase to 178 removed the stuck pixel. It seems like the algorithm is lowering VOL SUS (perhaps getting out of the aggressive over voltage period in the algorithm) so I have to compensate by raising it. Remember, the algorithm is no longer in line with the panel's age, so any corrections made by it are pretty much invalid. This leads me to believe that all who reset will need to make voltage corrections over the display's lifespan (I believe D-Nice stated this in the past).
makaveddie81 is offline  
post #1350 of 1420 Old 07-21-2014, 01:51 PM
Member
 
lnarbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: France
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 18
From what I saw, dropping a value in the service menu is in fact increasing the real voltages.

Some time ago by mistake I dropped FSAD to 2 (yes, lol) on my non reset panel, and what did I see ? Immediately an horrible black rain.
What's happening on a fresh reset panel ? Black rain... why ? Because it's being driven like new, with higher voltages, but as the phosphors aren't new anymore, they don't like it that much
lnarbi is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro 1150hd 50 Inch Plasma Hdtv
Gear in this thread - 1150hd by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off