Pioneer 8G 9G Kuro Reset Guide - Page 49 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 01-21-2015, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post
The correct setting would be

V1 @ 071
V3 @ 081
V4@ 128 not 113, I am sure this was just a typo
Good catch. Fixed original post.
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Old 01-21-2015, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OShag View Post
Thanks.

I have the Contralcal Special profile that allows me to enter into the service menu and see voltages.

My S1, S3 and S4 values have been well off of factory defualt values at 74, 84 and 131 respectively (although I have no idea why). I changed those values back to factory default and immediately noticed an improvement in the picture. The big difference was bringing RSTP from 031 to 002. This had a dramatic impact on the black level. What I am seeing now is much improved contrast, blacks and resolution. I didn't touch the other voltage settings.
That's good to hear.

Are you the original owner? If not, the previous owner must have tinkered with the voltages.

You can keep the S1, S3 and S4 adjustments in your back pocket if your red tint ever returns.
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Old 01-21-2015, 07:31 PM
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I am the original owner.

I don't see a red tint now although to be honest the blacks are still not quite as good as they used to be, even after putting RSTP too 002 from 031. I did try lowering SAD (combination of S1, S3 and S4?) from 128 20 ticks down to 108 also but there were magenta trails showing up so brought SAD up again to 128. The blacks are much improved though. I am really hoping for that true Kuro black. Maybe given that the panel has aged 10k hours that is not a possibility without a full reset. I also have a Samsung PN64F8500 and currently its blacks are better - that didn't used to be the case. The Samsung does have the ability to be brighter in dynamic mode especially for video based content such as football games etc. I still do prefer the Kuro picture for blu-ray movies though.

Also, when I have the panel without any content playing actively, it is far from a black screen with a very faint glow, although after 30 seconds it does go much darker. I am wondering if this is correct?
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Old 01-22-2015, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OShag View Post
I am the original owner.

I don't see a red tint now although to be honest the blacks are still not quite as good as they used to be, even after putting RSTP too 002 from 031. I did try lowering SAD (combination of S1, S3 and S4?) from 128 20 ticks down to 108 also but there were magenta trails showing up so brought SAD up again to 128. The blacks are much improved though. I am really hoping for that true Kuro black. Maybe given that the panel has aged 10k hours that is not a possibility without a full reset. I also have a Samsung PN64F8500 and currently its blacks are better - that didn't used to be the case. The Samsung does have the ability to be brighter in dynamic mode especially for video based content such as football games etc. I still do prefer the Kuro picture for blu-ray movies though.

Also, when I have the panel without any content playing actively, it is far from a black screen with a very faint glow, although after 30 seconds it does go much darker. I am wondering if this is correct?
A glow on a blank screen is normal I believe
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Old 01-22-2015, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OShag View Post
I am the original owner.

I don't see a red tint now although to be honest the blacks are still not quite as good as they used to be, even after putting RSTP too 002 from 031. I did try lowering SAD (combination of S1, S3 and S4?) from 128 20 ticks down to 108 also but there were magenta trails showing up so brought SAD up again to 128. The blacks are much improved though. I am really hoping for that true Kuro black. Maybe given that the panel has aged 10k hours that is not a possibility without a full reset. I also have a Samsung PN64F8500 and currently its blacks are better - that didn't used to be the case. The Samsung does have the ability to be brighter in dynamic mode especially for video based content such as football games etc. I still do prefer the Kuro picture for blu-ray movies though.

Also, when I have the panel without any content playing actively, it is far from a black screen with a very faint glow, although after 30 seconds it does go much darker. I am wondering if this is correct?
On a blank screen you will always see a glow, especially on the 60 inch iterations.

Were you seeing the magenta sparkles on content or internal patterns? If you are seeing them in content, you might want to set S1, S3 and S4 to defaults and then set SAD to 118 (for a reduction of 10). I've found that the sweet spot for the 60 inch panels is a reduction of 15 ticks.
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Old 01-22-2015, 05:47 PM
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I did another run with my 5020FD today. I went really low on my voltages (-50 on S1,S3,S4) this time:


VSUS 138 (Default was 128)
140
02 (Default was 12)
85
47
S1 93
S3 78
S4: 122
ABL 142 (Default was 112)


This completely eliminated the red tint but introduced a few 'weak' pixels and some light blue and magenta sparkling on a full screen white field. The VSUS and ABL changes seemed to help with this. I can't see any misfires in normal content and while I do get some splotchy blacks it's only really visible on lengthy fades to black.
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:45 PM
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With SAD lowered to 108 in combination with RSTP at 002, The magenta trails / dots showed up in the menu portion where the screen is gray vertical lines overlaid by the commands (the home menu). They are not on the black portion of the screen. There are not many and they do disappear quickly, but I got a little nervous so brought the level right back up. This did not happen when I just lowered the SAD to 108 but with RSTP at its default of 031. I also tried lowering SAD to 085 (as per another member) but the magenta dots/ trails showed up then. So far lowering RSTP has yielded the best results. I did even go to 001 and I think black levels were even deeper than at 002.

I will try lowering SAD 15 ticks from 128 to 113. Maybe this in combination with the lowered RSTP at 002 or 001 from 031 will yield a lower black level. It does look much better all ready. The picture does have that 'wow' factor again I feel, although that true Kuro intense inky black that I remember is not quite there just yet. I would classify my blacks as a really dark gray/ black. I will report back on the results of lowering SAD 15 ticks.
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OShag View Post
With SAD lowered to 108 in combination with RSTP at 002, The magenta trails / dots showed up in the menu portion where the screen is gray vertical lines overlaid by the commands (the home menu). They are not on the black portion of the screen. There are not many and they do disappear quickly, but I got a little nervous so brought the level right back up. This did not happen when I just lowered the SAD to 108 but with RSTP at its default of 031. I also tried lowering SAD to 085 (as per another member) but the magenta dots/ trails showed up then. So far lowering RSTP has yielded the best results. I did even go to 001 and I think black levels were even deeper than at 002.

I will try lowering SAD 15 ticks from 128 to 113. Maybe this in combination with the lowered RSTP at 002 or 001 from 031 will yield a lower black level. It does look much better all ready. The picture does have that 'wow' factor again I feel, although that true Kuro intense inky black that I remember is not quite there just yet. I would classify my blacks as a really dark gray/ black. I will report back on the results of lowering SAD 15 ticks.
Whoever told you to set SAD to 85 on a 60 inch kuro is out of their minds, since the lowest they can go without artifacts is 108.

I wouldnt worry about artifacts that show up on the menu, since you wont be using the menu that often anyways. Use real content as a barometer. Looks like 15 is going to be your sweet spot (believe me those 5 ticks make a ton of difference).

I prefer having rstp at 1 because the improvement is not linear... I tend to see significant improvement when comparing 2 and 1.
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
I did another run with my 5020FD today. I went really low on my voltages (-50 on S1,S3,S4) this time:


VSUS 138 (Default was 128)
140
02 (Default was 12)
85
47
S1 93
S3 78
S4: 122
ABL 142 (Default was 112)


This completely eliminated the red tint but introduced a few 'weak' pixels and some light blue and magenta sparkling on a full screen white field. The VSUS and ABL changes seemed to help with this. I can't see any misfires in normal content and while I do get some splotchy blacks it's only really visible on lengthy fades to black.
Your red tint must be really bad for you to have to fo down 50 ticks.
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Old 01-23-2015, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Your red tint must be really bad for you to have to fo down 50 ticks.
It was pretty bad but only in two areas of the screen....the upper right and the lower right/center. Rest if the screen seemed pretty free of tint. Panel had 10k hours on it.
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Whoever told you to set SAD to 85 on a 60 inch kuro is out of their minds, since the lowest they can go without artifacts is 108.

I wouldnt worry about artifacts that show up on the menu, since you wont be using the menu that often anyways. Use real content as a barometer. Looks like 15 is going to be your sweet spot (believe me those 5 ticks make a ton of difference).

I prefer having rstp at 1 because the improvement is not linear... I tend to see significant improvement when comparing 2 and 1.
Yes you're right, I am seeing that small moves up or down do make a difference. Did go down 15 ticks as you suggested and with RSPT at 002 the black levels were true black. The picture seems to lose just a bit too much detail at that level and black is a bit too dominant. I have dialed both RSTP back up incrementally to around 21 and SAD is currently at around 113. I'm pretty close to dialing in the right balance of black without taking away too much dark area detail.

I'm assuming that RSTP affects black level (turning grays to black) more than does SAD - Am I correct in this assumption? It seems to me also that as I bring SAD up toward default again that the picture is getting brighter?? Am I imagining this?

Just to be sure, when I dial the RSTP down to 001, I am not potentially damaging the TV by under-driving?

Thanks for you advice.

Last edited by OShag; 01-23-2015 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 01-23-2015, 10:40 AM
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Raising SAD will raise black levels ,lowering SAD will lower Black levels . RSTP @ 001 or 002 will not cause any damage , you just need watch out for magenta trails coming out of black , you have a 60" correct? You can raise brightness setting 1 click if you are not seeing details in the blacks or crushing blacks .
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post
Raising SAD will raise black levels ,lowering SAD will lower Black levels . RSTP @ 001 or 002 will not cause any damage , you just need watch out for magenta trails coming out of black , you have a 60" correct? You can raise brightness setting 1 click if you are not seeing details in the blacks or crushing blacks .
Thanks qwknuf6 and Makoveddie.

Yes my panel is a 60" 151.

Now I've gotten my feet wet I am thinking of plunging into deeper waters to see the effects of more detailed adjustments as per Tom669:

VOL SUS = 155 (from 128)
VOL OFFSET = 140 (unchanged)
VOL RST P = 009 (from 031)
VOL XPOFS1 = 085 (unchanged)
VOL XPOFS2 = 045 (unchanged)
VOL YKNOFS1,2 D = 015 (from 143)
VOL YKNOFS3 D = 110 (from 128)
VOL YKNOFS4 D = 170 (from 128)

I just want to make sure I can revert back to the defaults without any permanent changes that I can't go back from. Although Tom669's panel is a 50" European model so I am not sure this would be applicable.

It also intrigues me that there is potential to increase panel brightness using higher values for ABL. Before proceeding I would have to be confident I could revert without any permanent changes. I have been using D-Nices ISF Day / Night and Pure settings all along and I don't want to mess anything up as far as the colour balance. With true Kuro black and a bit higher brightness capability I can only think that the results would be spectacular, allowing for even better contrast dynamic range dark to bright / black to white.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OShag View Post
Yes you're right, I am seeing that small moves up or down do make a difference. Did go down 15 ticks as you suggested and with RSPT at 002 the black levels were true black. The picture seems to lose just a bit too much detail at that level and black is a bit too dominant. I have dialed both RSTP back up incrementally to around 21 and SAD is currently at around 113. I'm pretty close to dialing in the right balance of black without taking away too much dark area detail.

I'm assuming that RSTP affects black level (turning grays to black) more than does SAD - Am I correct in this assumption? It seems to me also that as I bring SAD up toward default again that the picture is getting brighter?? Am I imagining this?

Just to be sure, when I dial the RSTP down to 001, I am not potentially damaging the TV by under-driving?

Thanks for you advice.
Forgot to mention that, after tweaking, you need to use a pluge pattern to set your brightness control to compensate for the tweak. You are probably clipping blacks, which explains the loss of detail and the black dominance. Typically, brightness at +1 or +2 ends up being the correct value after tweaking (depending on the aggressiveness of your adjustments). Brightness is set to +1 on my 141fd that has RSTP at 1 and S1, S3 and S4 reduced by 20 ticks.

RSTP and SAD work hand in hand. To my eyes, RSTP seems to mimic a backlight control making black either gray or black, while SAD actually makes the black blacker.

No one really knows if the tweak damages the TV in the long run, unfortunately. But I'm going to enjoy the ride without worrying about it. My tweaked 141fd has been running strong for about a year and a half.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OShag View Post
Thanks qwknuf6 and Makoveddie.

Yes my panel is a 60" 151.

Now I've gotten my feet wet I am thinking of plunging into deeper waters to see the effects of more detailed adjustments as per Tom669:

VOL SUS = 155 (from 128)
VOL OFFSET = 140 (unchanged)
VOL RST P = 009 (from 031)
VOL XPOFS1 = 085 (unchanged)
VOL XPOFS2 = 045 (unchanged)
VOL YKNOFS1,2 D = 015 (from 143)
VOL YKNOFS3 D = 110 (from 128)
VOL YKNOFS4 D = 170 (from 128)

I just want to make sure I can revert back to the defaults without any permanent changes that I can't go back from. Although Tom669's panel is a 50" European model so I am not sure this would be applicable.

It also intrigues me that there is potential to increase panel brightness using higher values for ABL. Before proceeding I would have to be confident I could revert without any permanent changes. I have been using D-Nices ISF Day / Night and Pure settings all along and I don't want to mess anything up as far as the colour balance. With true Kuro black and a bit higher brightness capability I can only think that the results would be spectacular, allowing for even better contrast dynamic range dark to bright / black to white.
Not sure who this Tom is, but he is butchering his adjustments.

First, NEVER use the numbers from a 50 inch panel on a 60 inch. Not only do they have different default values, but they are driven differently as well.

Second, he is altering the separation between S1, S3 and S4, which is a BIG no no in my book. Reducing S1 by almost 130 ticks is laughable, along with raising S4. Really, his numbers look like ones from a panel whose pulse meter is reset and the owner desperately stabbing in the dark to get the panel back to its pre-reset state. I have performed countless tests and came to the conclusion the separation between these three offsets were set optimally at the factory by Pioneer. No need to butcher them.

Third, he might be adjusting VOL SUS to compensate for the dramatic reduction of S1.

You're better off sticking with RSTP at 1, SAD at 113 and brightness at +1. When I tweak a panel, I try to find my optimal values with the fewest number of adjustments and then leave it alone once I nail it. You never know, you might mess something up by continuing to adjust and readjust.

I've never adjusted ABL and never plan on doing so. You will shorten the life of your display. There was one member on this forum who insisted on having ABL near maximum, despite his panel shutting off during bright scenes . Perhaps you could increase it by a reasonable value (no more than 50 ticks) but again, I've never done so as I prefer a dim image anyways.
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:14 PM
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What he said .

I would only change RSTP S1 S3 S4 , I would not touch any other settings(in the service menu) , keep the same spacing between S1 3 4 , you should end up with something like RSTP @ 001 or 002 , S1 @ 72 S3 @ 82 and S4 @ 129 , if you see magenta trails or misfires you may have to raise the settings , if you are lucky you may be able to lower S1 3 4 a little lower . You can change back to fact settings @ any time .

Last edited by qwknuf6; 01-23-2015 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:42 PM
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Not saying that the settings attributed to him are correct (or even something he directly recommended) but from what I read Tom (I forget his full handle) is very knowledgeable. I believe his occupation involves TV repair and he is very active on BadCaps etc. He has also written a few plasma voltage guides. Just saying.
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Old 01-24-2015, 01:19 AM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Not sure who this Tom is, but he is butchering his adjustments.

First, NEVER use the numbers from a 50 inch panel on a 60 inch. Not only do they have different default values, but they are driven differently as well.

Second, he is altering the separation between S1, S3 and S4, which is a BIG no no in my book. Reducing S1 by almost 130 ticks is laughable, along with raising S4. Really, his numbers look like ones from a panel whose pulse meter is reset and the owner desperately stabbing in the dark to get the panel back to its pre-reset state. I have performed countless tests and came to the conclusion the separation between these three offsets were set optimally at the factory by Pioneer. No need to butcher them.

Third, he might be adjusting VOL SUS to compensate for the dramatic reduction of S1.

You're better off sticking with RSTP at 1, SAD at 113 and brightness at +1. When I tweak a panel, I try to find my optimal values with the fewest number of adjustments and then leave it alone once I nail it. You never know, you might mess something up by continuing to adjust and readjust.

I've never adjusted ABL and never plan on doing so. You will shorten the life of your display. There was one member on this forum who insisted on having ABL near maximum, despite his panel shutting off during bright scenes . Perhaps you could increase it by a reasonable value (no more than 50 ticks) but again, I've never done so as I prefer a dim image anyways.
Hello!

I own a Pioneer LX5090H (european model), bought used.

The panel is approximately 12 900 hours.
It suffered from black rising and red tint.

I did the reset and red tint totally disappear. Black is very, very, deep. The glow on a blank screen is almost unnoticeable, which is truly impressive.

However, I've got some "sparkles" while displaying a blank screen. (Grey sparkles, NOT moving or flashing, on a black background, who tend to disappear after displaying some moving image.)
I did not notice black rain or any other problem.

I red carefully the front page and the last 10 pages of this topic, but I'm very confused about how to proceed to adjust voltages.
What to begin with?
Is there some procedure/tutorial to make adjustments in the good order and get the best result?

Many, many, thanks in advance.

Fred
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Old 01-24-2015, 01:51 AM
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The best procedure is : wait at least 300hrs and then have a look at how it goes. There's no point adjusting anything just after a reset.
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Old 01-24-2015, 01:55 AM
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The best procedure is : wait at least 300hrs and then have a look at how it goes. There's no point adjusting anything just after a reset.
I do understand that.

The TV has been functioning about 150hours since I did the reset. I'll wait a it more...

But, afterward?
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
The best procedure is : wait at least 300hrs and then have a look at how it goes. There's no point adjusting anything just after a reset.
I do understand that.

The TV has been functioning about 150hours since I did the reset. I'll wait a it more...

But, afterward?

You'll have to increase either VOL SUS or VOL YKNOFSA D. By how much I dont know, depends on how far along the aging algorithm was.
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Old 01-28-2015, 11:34 AM
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Great to see this thread is still alive and well!

I have a 60" 141FD with around 14,000 hours and some pretty massive red tint. I have tried lowering RSTP to 1 (from 26) and lowered SAD to dangerously low levels and the red tint remains. (lowering SAD just adds black sparkles and IR). Is there anything I can do to try to lower the red tint without performing a reset? I've heard that the 60" panels don't fare as well as others to resets. In your expert opinions, should I do the reset? (I'm not afraid of tinkering with my panel, but do not want to damage it in the process).

Thanks!
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:41 PM
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Hey guys I may have really messed up. I accessed the service menu on my Pro-151FD and went to panel adjust 2 - the RGB controls. I thought I had written down the values but didn't save it. For sure I know that R Low, G Low, and B Low were all at 500, I know for sure that R High was at 506, either G High or B High was in the 540s, like 548 I think but am not sure. The one that was not in the 540s was at 500 (same as all the Low values) and I do think it is the B High that is supposed to be at 500. Could somone tell me what the defaults in the Service Menu RGB controls are supposed to be? Also What is ABL supposed to be? It is at 123 now I believe but I was fiddling around a wee bit.

The reason I have been a bit frustrated is I think my panel has over time lost a little vibrance and brightness to the picture. The blacks are not as deep and inky as they were for sure. I hope I haven't screwed things up even more?? My panel has 10054 hours on it.

Any help is much appreciated. MakovEddie I think you have the service manual for the 60" panels if you could check for me?
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OShag View Post
Hey guys I may have really messed up. I accessed the service menu on my Pro-151FD and went to panel adjust 2 - the RGB controls. I thought I had written down the values but didn't save it. For sure I know that R Low, G Low, and B Low were all at 500, I know for sure that R High was at 506, either G High or B High was in the 540s, like 548 I think but am not sure. The one that was not in the 540s was at 500 (same as all the Low values) and I do think it is the B High that is supposed to be at 500. Could somone tell me what the defaults in the Service Menu RGB controls are supposed to be? Also What is ABL supposed to be? It is at 123 now I believe but I was fiddling around a wee bit.

The reason I have been a bit frustrated is I think my panel has over time lost a little vibrance and brightness to the picture. The blacks are not as deep and inky as they were for sure. I hope I haven't screwed things up even more?? My panel has 10054 hours on it.

Any help is much appreciated. MakovEddie I think you have the service manual for the 60" panels if you could check for me?
The RGB low and high and ABL are panel specific unfortunately. RGB lows are typically all 500, while RGB highs vary. ABL is typically around the 120s range so you should be fine at 123.

Do you have the capability of calibrating the set?

If your blacks are not as deep and inky as before, you might want to start tinkering with RSTP and YKNOFSA D.

Set RSTP to 1 for starters.
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:01 PM
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MakovEddie,

Darn, I figured that RGB High values may be panel specific. I can't calibrate because I don't have the gear. I intended to call D-Nice one of these days but I am Cali and am not sure if he does calibrations out here. I am fairly sure the higher value number was on G High rather than B High - do you think that is right?

I have lowered RSPT and SAD but put them back to default. I will try again.

Reading through the thread I see that you actually did a full reset. Would you recommend this over adjustments to voltage without a reset? I am thinking of the reset. Also if I did the reset would the RGB values in the service menu go back to what they were?

Thanks mate
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:26 PM
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If the Red High was at 506, perhaps Green and Blue High were at 504, not 540

At default my RGB High is: 506 - 504 - 500
All Low at 500

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Old 02-06-2015, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OShag View Post
MakovEddie,

Darn, I figured that RGB High values may be panel specific. I can't calibrate because I don't have the gear. I intended to call D-Nice one of these days but I am Cali and am not sure if he does calibrations out here. I am fairly sure the higher value number was on G High rather than B High - do you think that is right?

I have lowered RSPT and SAD but put them back to default. I will try again.

Reading through the thread I see that you actually did a full reset. Would you recommend this over adjustments to voltage without a reset? I am thinking of the reset. Also if I did the reset would the RGB values in the service menu go back to what they were?

Thanks mate
D-Nice tours California quite often. I should know, I also live in California.

Whatever you do, do NOT reset your display. It will cause additional problems and you'll find yourself stabbing in the dark trying to correct them. The 60 inch panels are quite sensitive to adjustments/reset so, again, do NOT reset your display. The reset will not change your RGB values. What it will do is reset the number of pulses so they are no longer in line with the panel's age, wreaking havoc on your picture.

You are better off setting RSTP to 1 and reducing SAD by 15 to 20 ticks.
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:30 PM
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Thanks. I won't reset.

Zimbalo made a very interesting observation (thanks Zimbalo) that it would seem more reasonable that the value for G-High should be much closer to 500 rather than at 548. Why would there be such at delta between R, G, and B High? I might give a shot at High values to 500 and see what the results are. The concern is that G - High is something to do with luminance, or light output correct me if I'm wrong?

Last edited by OShag; 02-06-2015 at 10:41 PM.
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:08 PM
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Yes, it's right.

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Old 02-06-2015, 11:47 PM
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There are several values that will be right for each panel, but as d-nice already pointed it, you need to know your factory values, otherwise you'll never get it right again.
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