Pioneer 8G 9G Kuro Reset Guide - Page 56 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1651 of 1662 Unread Today, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
Everything might not be right you know, these are just quotes, and not necessarily truth. A possibility though.
I noticed when starting the TV that the gray box "starting up" was perfectly solid, without any dancing pixel even with the nose on it. Might explain the better overall sharpness.
And what if, FSAD and VSUS had to be set the same value ? It could even be as simple as that, who knows
yes thats why you need to do some testing to sort some of the suggestions out

i dont think VSUS and FSAD are linked.
nothing in the service manual points to that
VSUS controls the overall voltage to the panel and the effect is most visible on bright areas when high voltage is used.
FSAD is not a voltage on its own it just changes S1/S3/S4 but not in a linear way.
FSAD= interlocked settings for S1/S3/S4
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post #1652 of 1662 Unread Today, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by all clear View Post
bt1886 gamma is only optimal for displays that cant go down to 0 blacks so i dont use it.
i go for powerlaw gamma on my KRP
that one looks best with best shadow details.

if you want to use bt1886 do it
i dont trust gimmicks that tries to copy the behaviour from the old CRT tvs.
also most movies are mastered with powerlaw gamma at 2.22
I didn't say I use BT1886. I still use power law but gamma. My dilemma is that with RGB gamma setting for 10 IRE at 0, gamma readings for that point are around the 2.27 to 2.30 range. If I set it to +1, then the readings are around 2.17 to 2.19. I'm trying to decide which would be best for my needs. I don't want dirty blacks or loss of detail near black. It seems that setting it to +1 would give the results I am looking for.
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post #1653 of 1662 Unread Today, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
Another interesting thing...
I checked the masks out of curiosity.
Masks CS06 CS07 and SS23 are perfectly clean, no misfires at all !
I NEVER saw that on a reset display, never, especially CS06 was impossible to get clean.
Combi mask 6 (the screen swipe on steroids) was not clean on my recently acquired 500M (only 1900 hours) and stock voltages (at the time).

I gave up using patterns when tweaking a non-reset display. A better way to gauge the tweak is with actual content.
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post #1654 of 1662 Unread Today, 01:48 PM
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that sounds logical
X and Y
you need to change both not just one to have an effect.

lowering RSTP and VOL OFFSET with the MKCS01 (H Ramp) mask didnt have any effect att all
i also tried to power off and power on to see any changes.

it said that you should raise both to clear sparkles but i didnt get any sparkles even with RSTP at 001 and VOL OFFSET at 010
so that one goes off the list of potential fixes right away
the only voltage that has an effect on that mask is VOLSUS.



brightness test with VSUS and SAD with contrast at 35
default vsus and sad: 45fL
vsus 150: 46.6fL
vsus and sad at 155: 46.9
default vsus and sad but with xsus_b and ysus_b at 124 : 48fL

so no raising both VSUS and SAD to 155 here doesnt reduce brightness


Masks CS06 CS07 and SS23 are extreme
they are not clean here but i dont care.
i never see those misfires on real content so i let it go

i have some other fixes for mask problems here that i tested out about a year ago
they can be usefull



you was wondering how you got combi mask 6 clean
here is the answer.



you need to check both raster mask 15 and combi mask 6 as both are affected by the distance between the S3 and S4 voltages
You wouldn't happen to be pg_ice would you?

Your opinions/observations, writing style and setup are eerily similar to his.
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post #1655 of 1662 Unread Today, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by all clear View Post
yes thats why you need to do some testing to sort some of the suggestions out

i dont think VSUS and FSAD are linked.
nothing in the service manual points to that
VSUS controls the overall voltage to the panel and the effect is most visible on bright areas when high voltage is used.
FSAD is not a voltage on its own it just changes S1/S3/S4 but not in a linear way.
FSAD= interlocked settings for S1/S3/S4
FSAD absolutely changes S1, S3 and S4 in a linear way, hence the "interlocked" designation.

FSAD was introduced in the 9th generation panels. The reasoning for it is right there in your screenshot - for easier adjustment of S1, S3 and S4. That right there tells me that those three must be adjusted by the same amount on non-reset panels.
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I didn't adjust anything to get the masks clean, nothing at all except RSTP, VSUS and FSAD.
Before reset I have set everything to default, and RSTP to the card's default value (18), just after the reset I set back RSTP to 33 (my factory setting), VSUS and FSAD to 155, and then 30min of combi mask 1.
That's it

Well after that I activated ISF modes again, put previous settings in, and tweaked them because white balance changed.

I remain confident they're somewhat connected, in the aging algorithms pov at least.
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post #1657 of 1662 Unread Today, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
I didn't adjust anything to get the masks clean, nothing at all except RSTP, VSUS and FSAD.
Before reset I have set everything to default, and RSTP to the card's default value (18), just after the reset I set back RSTP to 33 (my factory setting), VSUS and FSAD to 155, and then 30min of combi mask 1.
That's it

Well after that I activated ISF modes again, put previous settings in, and tweaked them because white balance changed.

I remain confident they're somewhat connected, in the aging algorithms pov at least.
That sounds like a good approach... keep it simple.

I got my reset 101fd closest to stock by only raising SAD until combi mask 7 was clear. Kept SUS and RSTP at default.
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You could try to find the right balance between VSUS and FSAD, who knows maybe it's even better that way.
It would be nice for once to find a pettern to this that work everywhere.

PS : my panel now has 15k hours, so it's not a matter of too many hours or not.

VSUS is the main voltage for the panel, and the voltages from the y board (400V+) are raised from vsus as a source, so a small change in vsus is that much bigger on the y board side.
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Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
I didn't adjust anything to get the masks clean, nothing at all except RSTP, VSUS and FSAD.
thats just pure luck
all it needs its a slight adjustment of the S3 and S4 voltages.
that space was probably correct on yours already from the factory.
good for you anyway.

if you get misfires already on a stock kuro with low hours on the masks,you can wonder how the voltages was setup up from the beginning.
you can also guess its some wearout problems or hardware failure that wasnt there when it was new.
should you do a reset then?
probably not

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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
You wouldn't happen to be pg_ice would you?
Your opinions/observations, writing style and setup are eerily similar to his.
is it important for you to know?

Last edited by all clear; Today at 02:21 PM.
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I remember checking these patterns before buying this one, they were clean. I also calibrated the ones of some people in my area, checked too, clean everytime. I didn't check on my very first Kuro though, but I recall some people saying on theirs these patterns weren't all clean so it's probably a matter of luck on the panel you get.

Tazz28 on HCFR studied the kuro official patterns and from his understanding the aging algorithms are meant for the worse possible scenario, rather than being specific to each panel, and are therefore too agressive to many panels. If they were specific, the red tint problem may never have happened, but how much would these sets have cost if it was the case ?

RSTP might be the value that sets the aggressiveness of these algorithms, being set different all the time from factory, that's why I want to keep it to its original value.
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post #1661 of 1662 Unread Today, 03:27 PM
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thats just pure luck
all it needs its a slight adjustment of the S3 and S4 voltages.
that space was probably correct on yours already from the factory.
good for you anyway.
Because pure luck is not part of the equation when stabbing blindly in the dark to "fixi" a reset Kuro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by all clear View Post
if you get misfires already on a stock kuro with low hours on the masks,you can wonder how the voltages was setup up from the beginning.
you can also guess its some wearout problems or hardware failure that wasnt there when it was new.
should you do a reset then?
probably not
Only mask that had misfires was combi 6 and it was very minor. Not going to stress over it or fall into the reset trap again.

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is it important for you to know?
I guess it got quiet in the European forum eh?
Say hi to Stu for me
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post #1662 of 1662 Unread Today, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
I remember checking these patterns before buying this one, they were clean. I also calibrated the ones of some people in my area, checked too, clean everytime. I didn't check on my very first Kuro though, but I recall some people saying on theirs these patterns weren't all clean so it's probably a matter of luck on the panel you get.

Tazz28 on HCFR studied the kuro official patterns and from his understanding the aging algorithms are meant for the worse possible scenario, rather than being specific to each panel, and are therefore too agressive to many panels. If they were specific, the red tint problem may never have happened, but how much would these sets have cost if it was the case ?

RSTP might be the value that sets the aggressiveness of these algorithms, being set different all the time from factory, that's why I want to keep it to its original value.
Yeah it was very minor misfires on combi mask 6, which is the most intensive/aggressive of the internal patterns. Nothing to worry about, since the tweak will induce more misfires in the patterns (but not on content if done right) anyways.

I always set RSTP to 1 on my Kuro's as a preventative measure (or as a possible delay) against red tint.
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