Pioneer 8G 9G Kuro Reset Guide - Page 63 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1861 of 1879 Old 07-06-2015, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrno View Post
Okay, here we go.

I just bought myself a LX6090 (think it equals to us model 6020).
Wow the 60 inch models are really heavy

Just checked the service menu and the panel has 16.000 hours on it.
As a result the red tint is quite bad.

What do you suggest, a reset or just tweaking the voltages?
Anyone who have reset this kind of TV?

RSTP = 8.

/Andreas

Andreas, I agree with qwknuf6 to not reset the panel. Drop your RSTP to 1 and your S1-4 values by 10-15 clicks.

I also upped ABL to 150 on all frequencies.

I had a 9th Gen 50" that was fairly easy to tweak post reset. The 8th Gen 60" was a nightmare with no appreciable gain in black levels post reset compared with just tweaking to the values above.

What you might be seeing with regards to Red Tint is a change in RGB values as they drift over time..the sets become much warmer. I'd suggest a User menu tweak of those.

Here are my settings for Movie mode..(it's very similar to the activated Service ISF mode):

Contrast: 33
Brightness: +1
Colour: -2
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -10
Colour Space: 1
Enhancer: 2
Gamma: 2
Manual: RH: -9 GH: +1 BH: +11 ALL Lows 0

All filters OFF, CMS all 0

There will still be a slight Red to low IRE but that's just native to KUROs.
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post #1862 of 1879 Old 07-06-2015, 06:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leggoslave View Post
The 8th Gen 60" was a nightmare with no appreciable gain in black levels post reset compared with just tweaking to the values above.
easy answer
the 9G and probably the 8G 60"s cant be tweaked to 0 blacks like the 50"s
they have a lower limit they can reach
after that you can lower the voltages as much as you want but the MLL will be the same.
you will only introduce more and more artifacts and misfires.

i think Anderas can judge for himself if a reset will work or not. (with the safe reset method)
only he can know how his 10K+ hours kuro looks not anyone on this forum
"red tint is quite bad" suggests that the aging algorithms has worked hard on his kuro and lower the voltages may not be enough.

one example.
on my 500M i got artifacts with just lowering FSAD (same as lowering S1-S4)
those artifacts was gone after the reset with the same low blacklevel as with just the voltage tweak.
the only difference after the reset was that i had to raise FSAD to 150 to have all internal masks clean.
the good thing is that blacks is still 0 with no glow at all.
FSAD at default 128 after a reset is in most cases is to low.

in my case the reset was only for the better.
it seems the aging algorithms had nocked out some of the voltages that was restored after the reset and so cleaned up the Green misfires i had on bright objects.

Last edited by all clear; 07-06-2015 at 06:29 AM.
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post #1863 of 1879 Old 07-06-2015, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all clear View Post
easy answer
the 9G and probably the 8G 60"s cant be tweaked to 0 blacks like the 50"s
they have a lower limit they can reach
after that you can lower the voltages as much as you want but the MLL will be the same.
you will only introduce more and more artifacts and misfires.

i think Anderas can judge for himself if a reset will work or not. (with the safe reset method)
only he can know how his 10K+ hours kuro looks not anyone on this forum
"red tint is quite bad" suggests that the aging algorithms has worked hard on his kuro and lower the voltages may not be enough.

one example.
on my 500M i got artifacts with just lowering FSAD (same as lowering S1-S4)
those artifacts was gone after the reset with the same low blacklevel as with just the voltage tweak.
the only difference after the reset was that i had to raise FSAD to 150 to have all internal masks clean.
the good thing is that blacks is still 0 with no glow at all.
FSAD at default 128 after a reset is in most cases is to low.

in my case the reset was only for the better.
it seems the aging algorithms had nocked out some of the voltages that was restored after the reset and so cleaned up the Green misfires i had on bright objects.

Yes, I'm well aware of the MLL capabilities of both Gens. I was comparing the black levels achieved via tweaking as c/f resetting.

The reason I suggested Andreas not perform a reset is because I did that very thing on the same set with similar hours (15K+) on it and was overwhelmed with all sorts of artifacts. Raising RSTP to 60 and S1-4 (SAD) +30 clicks and lowering FS2 below 100 all helped in the end but that end took some time getting to. The result? pretty much the same MLL level now as before reset.

I don't know if Andreas is capable of adjusting his panel post reset but if he can simply tweak the voltages to get rid of the Red Tint and do some additional RGB calibration it would save him a lot of time and trouble.
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post #1864 of 1879 Old 07-06-2015, 07:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by leggoslave View Post
I did that very thing on the same set with similar hours (15K+)
you wrote that you reseted a 8G 60" ?
he has an 9G 6090

either way its simple to compare the reset result and also make voltage changes to see if the picture matches or gets better/worse than with just adjusting the voltages.

here is the evaluate reset method again if some has missed it.
(this should be put at the first page instead of the old method with no turning back)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The NEW Safe "Evaluate The Reset" Method

Access service menu.

Go to etc > digital eeprom > delete.

Hold enter button for 5 seconds.

Red led turns on and blue led flashes.

Go to panel information screen.

Digital eeprom should say no data! and backup should say adjusted. If not, restart process.

Reset pulse meter or make any changes.

Put tv on standby by pressing the standby button on the remote and take it out of standby (DO NOT TURN OFF OR UNPLUG !!).

To keep changes (i.e. keep reset pulse meter), go to etc > digital eeprom > repair and hold enter button for 5 seconds.

To undo changes (i.e. restore pulse meter to pre-reset state), go to etc > backup data > transfer and hold enter button for 5 seconds.

Put tv on standby by pressing the standby button on the remote and take it out of standby (DO NOT TURN OFF OR UNPLUG !!).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

while you evaluate the reset you can make any voltage changes that you want Except for RSTP that needs a power off/on cycle to take effect.
all other voltages can be adjusted and compared
The key is to NOT power off and on the tv while you are evaluating the reset.
if you do you will lose your original eeprom and pulse meter settings.

Last edited by all clear; 07-06-2015 at 08:34 PM.
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post #1865 of 1879 Old 07-06-2015, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all clear View Post
you wrote that you reseted a 8G 60" ?
he has an 9G 6090

either way its simple to compare the reset result and also make voltage changes to see if the picture matches or gets better/worse than with just adjusting the voltages.

here is the evalute reset method again if some has missed it.
(this should be put at the first page instead of the old method with no turning back)
Ok Sorry I missed that fact. It might make a small difference but considering that most people resetting 60" panels have run into the same problems irrespective of the Gen model the point still stands.

I did use the EEPROM method as well and it seemed fine for the first few hours but after I performed a hard reset the artifacts continued to snowball with the more hours I put on it..

The aging process is quite intensive on new KUROs so unless you give the reset via EEPROM several hundred hours to be evaluated you will not be aware initially of the changes that follow in time.
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post #1866 of 1879 Old 07-06-2015, 09:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by leggoslave View Post
The aging process is quite intensive on new KUROs so unless you give the reset via EEPROM several hundred hours to be evaluated you will not be aware initially of the changes that follow in time.
no thats true you cant do that
you need to look at what you can get now right after the reset not after 500h hours.

thats why a reset every 200 hours
i dont want the agin algorithms to make any changes.
i will compensate for the aging better with small adjustments of the voltages over time if needed.
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post #1867 of 1879 Old 07-06-2015, 01:50 PM
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Thank you all for discussing what to do with my 9G 60" kuro

So far I have tried to just lower FSAD and RSTP, but it made no difference, but introduce magenta misfires.
I think this method works best on panels with high RSTP value from factory.
Because most likely RSTP increases alot over time. So for me, with a factory value of 008, I can only decrease it 7 ticks.

I had the same problem with my 9G 50" (LX5090), which had a factory value of 001.
This TV by the way is very easy to adjust post reset, so I have started to reset this TV every three months, because after that MLL starting to rise.


I will try the evaluate reset method. The problem is that I never seem to have enough time haha

By the way, my 6090 buzzes like hell. Do you guys have any idea what to do about that? Raise VOL SUS?


PS. Did not realize that a power cycle was needed after adjusting RSTP. Will try to lower it to 001 again, and recheck, before reseting.

/Andreas
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post #1868 of 1879 Old 07-06-2015, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrno View Post
Thank you all for discussing what to do with my 9G 60" kuro

So far I have tried to just lower FSAD and RSTP, but it made no difference, but introduce magenta misfires.
I think this method works best on panels with high RSTP value from factory.
Because most likely RSTP increases alot over time. So for me, with a factory value of 008, I can only decrease it 7 ticks.

I had the same problem with my 9G 50" (LX5090), which had a factory value of 001.
This TV by the way is very easy to adjust post reset, so I have started to reset this TV every three months, because after that MLL starting to rise.


I will try the evaluate reset method. The problem is that I never seem to have enough time haha

By the way, my 6090 buzzes like hell. Do you guys have any idea what to do about that? Raise VOL SUS?


PS. Did not realize that a power cycle was needed after adjusting RSTP. Will try to lower it to 001 again, and recheck, before reseting.

/Andreas
Power cycle is not needed when adjusting RSTP unless you set it to 0, which will set it back to 18 after power up.
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post #1869 of 1879 Old 07-06-2015, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by all clear View Post
no thats true you cant do that
you need to look at what you can get now right after the reset not after 500h hours.

thats why a reset every 200 hours
i dont want the agin algorithms to make any changes.
i will compensate for the aging better with small adjustments of the voltages over time if needed.

Yes, in that case it becomes an ongoing process. I would rather set and forget and be content with a compromise.



Quote:
Originally Posted by andrno View Post
Thank you all for discussing what to do with my 9G 60" kuro

So far I have tried to just lower FSAD and RSTP, but it made no difference, but introduce magenta misfires.
I think this method works best on panels with high RSTP value from factory.
Because most likely RSTP increases alot over time. So for me, with a factory value of 008, I can only decrease it 7 ticks.

I had the same problem with my 9G 50" (LX5090), which had a factory value of 001.
This TV by the way is very easy to adjust post reset, so I have started to reset this TV every three months, because after that MLL starting to rise.


I will try the evaluate reset method. The problem is that I never seem to have enough time haha

By the way, my 6090 buzzes like hell. Do you guys have any idea what to do about that? Raise VOL SUS?


PS. Did not realize that a power cycle was needed after adjusting RSTP. Will try to lower it to 001 again, and recheck, before reseting.

/Andreas

Andreas, shame the tweaking was no help.

You will have plenty of misfires and pixel lag post reset anyway but it might be your only recourse in getting rid of the Red Tint.

Raising VOL SUS will only make the buzzing worse as will raising ABL.

You can try running the panel in Energy Save Mode2 and/or changing your seating position to slightly off-centre.
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post #1870 of 1879 Old 07-06-2015, 07:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrno View Post
By the way, my 6090 buzzes like hell. Do you guys have any idea what to do about that?
the buzzing can go down after a reset
the panel is overdriven as it is now so it must work harder than needed.
my 500M buzzes less now after the reset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leggoslave View Post
Yes, in that case it becomes an ongoing process. I would rather set and forget and be content with a compromise.
thats the cost to stay on top
a reset only takes 2 minutes so its not a big deal

MLL starts to rise after 150hours after a reset btw.

Last edited by all clear; 07-06-2015 at 08:12 PM.
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post #1871 of 1879 Old 07-06-2015, 08:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by leggoslave View Post
Raising VOL SUS will only make the buzzing worse as will raising ABL.
if you have buzzing before adjusting VOL SUS and/or raise ABL you will get higher buzzing after.
But
if you dont have any buzzing (correct voltages to the transistors) you will not get any higher buzzing with higher VOLSUS or ABL.
wrong voltages to the transistors is what makes them buzz or almost scream.

there is a voltage pot named fmin_adj that can make the panel scream or be totally quiet with just 5-10 degrees of adjustment (left or right from center)
with that small adjustment that is needed to make the buzzing disappear i think there will be variations from the factory.
some panels buzzes more than others and i think its just that pot that isnt adjusted correctly on those.
or it can be that some panels needs a readjustment to that pot after some 10K hours.

i got my previous 5090 buzz free with just a micro adjustment to that pot.
boths my KRPs doesnt buzz so no need to adjust it there.

LX5090
a few degrees to the left from center was all that was required to get the panel quiet.

Last edited by all clear; 07-06-2015 at 08:26 PM.
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post #1872 of 1879 Old 07-10-2015, 12:41 PM
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Who here is Patrik G?

ISF Calibrator
Samsung PN64F8500
Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD
Pioneer Kuro BDP-320
Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, as they tend to shrink over time.
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post #1873 of 1879 Old 07-10-2015, 12:42 PM
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Who here is Patrik G?

ISF Calibrator
Samsung PN64F8500
Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD
Pioneer Kuro BDP-320
Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, as they tend to shrink over time.
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post #1874 of 1879 Old 07-10-2015, 05:32 PM
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Who here is Patrik G?
"PG ice" is "all clear" is "Patrik G"........ like the holy trinity of tweaking and resetting
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post #1875 of 1879 Old 07-10-2015, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by all clear View Post
while you evaluate the reset you can make any voltage changes that you want Except for RSTP that needs a power off/on cycle to take effect.
all other voltages can be adjusted and compared
if you do you will lose your original eeprom and pulse meter settings.
Wrong. RSTP does not need a power cycle to take effect. The changes are seen in real time, as my meter (and eyes) detect the black level change during adjustment. Also, raising RSTP clears combi mask 8 and combi mask 10 misfires on the 60 inch models in real time. If you're going to reference other people's findings without giving them credit, make sure you get it right.
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post #1876 of 1879 Old Yesterday, 02:58 PM
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Hey dropped voltages to get the black level wanted. The only issue I'm having is green sparkles and magenta misfires in the center of the screen.

When I'm in the service menu and am in torch mode i raise the vol sos in an attempt to get rid of them and it works.

Problem is the minute I leave the service menu... The vol sus setting stays but the panel doesn't seem to change ... And the magenta and sparkles come back. It's almost as if the vol sus setting just reverts back to default... Regardless of its 128... Or 255.

Any way to fix this?

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!

Last edited by johnnybrulez; Yesterday at 03:04 PM.
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post #1877 of 1879 Old Today, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post
Hey dropped voltages to get the black level wanted. The only issue I'm having is green sparkles and magenta misfires in the center of the screen.

When I'm in the service menu and am in torch mode i raise the vol sos in an attempt to get rid of them and it works.

Problem is the minute I leave the service menu... The vol sus setting stays but the panel doesn't seem to change ... And the magenta and sparkles come back. It's almost as if the vol sus setting just reverts back to default... Regardless of its 128... Or 255.

Any way to fix this?


Forget VOL SUS..leave that at default.

Lower YSUS_B & XSUS_B to 124 from 128.

Watch out for IR ie. Take care with static images/menus/logos.
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post #1878 of 1879 Old Today, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by leggoslave View Post
Forget VOL SUS..leave that at default.

Lower YSUS_B & XSUS_B to 124 from 128.

Watch out for IR ie. Take care with static images/menus/logos.
I did this... and adjusted voltages a bit and it seems to look okay at the moment. Thanks!

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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post #1879 of 1879 Old Today, 03:48 AM
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I did this... and adjusted voltages a bit and it seems to look okay at the moment. Thanks!
Great! Enjoy
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