Not One Single Plasma At CES :( - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 155 Old 01-15-2014, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

If they were bringing out a new model, they would have showcased it at ces...

Curtain has closed on plasma from panasonic with remorseful applause just like pioneer before them. Samsung just quietly slipped off the stage last week.
You are right, who knows for sure if Samsung is going to make new models, who know if they will continue with what they have, nothing is in stone frown.gif Even if it was in type today, they are the manufacturer and can change that without notice......
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post #92 of 155 Old 01-15-2014, 08:13 PM
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It's possible that the "new" model may depend entirely on how well the F8500 sells in the next few months. I don't mean that in a good way either. A "low cost" model using the F8500 panel may end up being a way to clear out excess panel inventory at the end of the year before shuttering the factories if the F8500 doesn't sell well enough in the mean time. They have probably contracted out a specific amount of panel manufacturing for the fiscal year and are evaluating the best way to get those panels out of warehouses. If the F8500 sells at a good enough clip to clear those out, no low cost model. If it doesn't, we'll get a cheaper model based around the panel around midyear to accelerate the sell-off.
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post #93 of 155 Old 01-16-2014, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Big C View Post

Obviously, plasma and OLED are the best. The opertunity to get a decent plasma is slipping away, and possibly quicker than we were hoping. OLED is expensive and can't be had under 55".

As soon as my house gets repaired from Hurricane Sandy damage, I will be getting a TV to replace the Toshiba 32E200U LCD panel I lost. I plan on getting something between 40" and 46". I will forever regret not getting the Panasonic TC-P42S60 1080p plasma TV and storing it some place until my house has been fixed. If I decide I need the peak brightness LCD provides, I will have plenty of opertunity for that over the next several years. But after reading this thread, as much as I would prefer to wait until I am ready to move back into my house so I can take full advantage of the one-year warranty, do you think it would be better to be quick with my research so I can purchase a plasma and store it away so I can be sure I'll have something good to look forward to when I am ready to move back into my house? This leaves me with the LG 42PN4500 and the Samsung UN43F4500 720p TVs.
I think the Panasonic TC-P42S60 is a 900p PDP. 900 scanlines is a little blurry for bluray, but if you don't need bluray,... I would continue the search.
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post #94 of 155 Old 01-16-2014, 07:03 AM
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You can thank all of the ******'s who wasted their money on Korean manufacturers instead of supporting the one company that was still innovating in plasma technology. It's sort of sad how the bad flushes out the good. It's a good parallel to most parts of life. The bad flushes out the good.
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post #95 of 155 Old 01-16-2014, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

I would have really loved to have tried an F8500, but I just can't go down in size from a 55" to a 51". It would be buyer's remorse every day, far more than dealing with any shortcomings I may have from LCD.

If Samsung wouldn't have put a really really stupid stand on the TV, I probably could have squeezed in the 60" model. However, my stand is only 49" wide and I wasn't about to have the TV hang over the edges or rig something up to support the ends of it. Perhaps the less expensive model that Samsung says is coming later this year would solve that with a more normal stand, but I'm not going to wait around with a pee stained display for 5-6 months while I wait for them to show up.

For the size/price range that I'm in, most of the new 2014 models that are coming out seem like a step back since many manufacturers are rolling the top end 1080p models into the low end 4k models. So, it's either strike now while I can get what I think is the best replacement or wait months for something else suitable to materialize that ultimately may not work as well for me.

I tried hard to convince myself to pick up a 55VT60, but the final straw for me was finding out that Panasonic doesn't seem to have any authorized warranty repair places that service the metro Pittsburgh area anymore. What good is concierge service if the nearest location says you are out of their area and are carry in only? That, combined with not being convinced they fixed the issue that bit me, just makes it a non-option.

for what it's worth, the stand on mine hangs over the edge about 5" on either side. it's not an issue(imo, not even aesthetically, but that's the only place it MAY be an issue for some)

not sure it was the best decision to make a stand the full width of the screen, but i don't think it should limit your size. it doesn't extend beyond the width of the screen, so if the tv fits, so will the stand.
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post #96 of 155 Old 01-16-2014, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Already being changed when I get back, I have postponed it since Dec 1st..............

You are not going to go all "PRINCE" on us, and become:

"The Great Internet TV Company formally known as Cleveland Plasma"

And your symbol could be:

$aveU$

Similar to Prince's symbol
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/af/Prince_logo.svg/195px-Prince_logo.svg.png
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post #97 of 155 Old 01-16-2014, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

for what it's worth, the stand on mine hangs over the edge about 5" on either side. it's not an issue(imo, not even aesthetically, but that's the only place it MAY be an issue for some)

not sure it was the best decision to make a stand the full width of the screen, but i don't think it should limit your size. it doesn't extend beyond the width of the screen, so if the tv fits, so will the stand.

Thanks for the info, but it probably isn't going to work out for me. I was just eyeballing it before, but the actual width of the TV is almost 5" wider than my 55ST50. My mistake was not measuring the axis of the TV and instead measuring just in front of the screen. My TV is currently in a corner (just the best way to setup the room from a seating and lighting perspective.) Right now, I can barely fit my fingers inbetween the TV and the wall on either side. I don't have 2.4" of clearance on the left and right without moving the whole thing further into the room which won't work for other reasons. Smaller bezels and it may have worked (for example, Samsung's F8000 60" TV is 1 inch narrower than my 55ST50, though it also wouldn't work for me due to the stand design on THAT one), but it's just a tad too large as is.

I've made my peace with it and have made a final decision on the TV I'm getting. I'm actually going to go buy it tonight. 21 months to the day after I bought my ST50. Hopefully this TV will last long enough for OLED to hit mainstream.
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post #98 of 155 Old 01-16-2014, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

Thanks for the info, but it probably isn't going to work out for me. I was just eyeballing it before, but the actual width of the TV is almost 5" wider than my 55ST50. My mistake was not measuring the axis of the TV and instead measuring just in front of the screen. My TV is currently in a corner (just the best way to setup the room from a seating and lighting perspective.) Right now, I can barely fit my fingers inbetween the TV and the wall on either side. I don't have 2.4" of clearance on the left and right without moving the whole thing further into the room which won't work for other reasons. Smaller bezels and it may have worked (for example, Samsung's F8000 60" TV is 1 inch narrower than my 55ST50, though it also wouldn't work for me due to the stand design on THAT one), but it's just a tad too large as is.

I've made my peace with it and have made a final decision on the TV I'm getting. I'm actually going to go buy it tonight. 21 months to the day after I bought my ST50. Hopefully this TV will last long enough for OLED to hit mainstream.

sucks when the 'silly' things get in the way, but i certainly understand it. i never fully made the switch to the 'flat panel' theory of room design, and still had things arranged the way i did with a bulky RPTV. it has it's benefits, although i guess if i ever go the wall mounted route i'll be worried less about width/height and more about depth. completely opposite of what i have to worry about now
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post #99 of 155 Old 01-16-2014, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by housequestion View Post

You can thank all of the ******'s who wasted their money on Korean manufacturers instead of supporting the one company that was still innovating in plasma technology. It's sort of sad how the bad flushes out the good. It's a good parallel to most parts of life. The bad flushes out the good.
Yeah. Everyone should have supported the Japanese company that in the 70s used it's own citizens to beta test it's products, then dumped them on everyone else in the world with Japanese government financial support to kill all the US manufacturers that couldn't compete with unfair trade practices...

History is a b **** huh?
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post #100 of 155 Old 01-16-2014, 04:14 PM
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History is irrelevant in this case as your post is a non sequitur.
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post #101 of 155 Old 01-17-2014, 09:37 AM
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i still appreciate the irony. especially if vizio manages to fill in that gap of great product at a good value...

and i would agree, that it's kind of a silly idea to think it somehow more 'patriotic' or beneficial to anybody in north america to support a japanese company over a korean one over a chinese one over...

i like to try and support local(canadian or american) companies when i can, but i make no effort to support one non-local country over another. it does nothing for me if korea has a stronger economy instead of china, or japan
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post #102 of 155 Old 01-17-2014, 10:13 AM
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One thing really to consider. Had Panasonic made an effort to complete and put out a good product with their LCD TVs, they might have been able to keep plasma around as a niche enthusiasts product (at least for a little while.)

Really though, Panasonic's financial issues and the early death of plasma (plasma is ultimately doomed due to industry direction) has little to do with the TV market in general. They were hammered by the Japanese earthquake (and before that, the Thailand floods). They also made a bad choice in buying Sanyo for battery technology since competition from LG and Samsung made prices bottom out.

So, you have a company that's in bad financial straights through problems not even caused by the display industry that's forced to cut costs anywhere they can so they can remain competitive in the display industry. They know plasma's days are numbered because the industry is moving towards 4k and that simply won't be viable on plasma without a huge R&D breakthrough. So, the only logical course is to double down on LCD and concentrate all efforts there.

However, I feel it was shortsighted of them to end OLED development even though they may not have had a choice due to financial concerns. If LG and Samsung manage to make cost effective panels with good yields, then it's more or less game over for both Panasonic and Sony as far as TVs go. I can see Panasonic exiting the TV industry entirely and Sony focusing on theater projectors and licensing out video processing technology to TV manufacturers.
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post #103 of 155 Old 01-17-2014, 12:20 PM
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Amazon is a store front. They don't care in the slightest about the details of the millions of products they sell, and certainly not about a product that the main manufacturers themselves have rightly or wrongly decided to retire.

From a practical standpoint, plasma's are way heavier to store and ship, and more susceptible to transport damage. This only hurts Amazon.

Average customers are being trained to ask for lightweight non-plasma TV's that can be shipped with pizza box cartons. Again whether that's right or wrong is irrelevant. Amazon wants to sell what customers ask for. Customers aren't asking for this, nor are they asking for Amazon exclusive anything.

Bezos fancies himself as Mr Future and Mr Disposable Technology, so thinking he'd be the champion of quality legacy tech doesn't seem like a fit at all.
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post #104 of 155 Old 01-17-2014, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post


So, you have a company that's in bad financial straights through problems not even caused by the display industry that's forced to cut costs anywhere they can so they can remain competitive in the display industry. They know plasma's days are numbered because the industry is moving towards 4k and that simply won't be viable on plasma without a huge R&D breakthrough.

However, I feel it was shortsighted of them to end OLED development even though they may not have had a choice due to financial concerns. If LG and Samsung manage to make cost effective panels with good yields, then it's more or less game over for both Panasonic and Sony as far as TVs go. I can see Panasonic exiting the TV industry entirely and Sony focusing on theater projectors and licensing out video processing technology to TV manufacturers.

I can see that all happening too but, god, I hope it doesn't come.to that. Competition is what makes this industry so interesting and compellingly. With less competition come fewer choices. But I could not agree more with you when you said Sony and Panasonic ending their OLED partnership is only going to give LG and Samsung the competitive advantage.
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post #105 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Which seems to have happened right around the time that the company started to lose it's way. And a few years ago their new President stated that he can't see a visible difference between his Panasonic Plasma and a rival company's LCD TV in his own home.
I think he lied. Japan doesn't have a ready supply of cheap labor. Now they pretend LED/LCD can be every bit as good.
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post #106 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

You are right, who knows for sure if Samsung is going to make new models, who know if they will continue with what they have, nothing is in stone frown.gif Even if it was in type today, they are the manufacturer and can change that without notice......
We are only certain that LG will, and we have to wait for the Samsung revisions to see if the "revised" models are briter or cooler.
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post #107 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 08:55 AM
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Buy, guys. I went with my gut and got the Samsung PN43F4500. For more details, you may find me in the appropriate thread.
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post #108 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

If they were bringing out a new model, they would have showcased it at ces...

Curtain has closed on plasma from panasonic with remorseful applause just like pioneer before them. Samsung just quietly slipped off the stage last week.

Will Samsung continue to offer the PNxxF8500AF series PDP through 2014?

Has Samsung been able to eliminate the panel buzz issues that are associated with this display?

IMO, this display may be the only, perhaps last, best choice available for buying an affordable, good quality HDTV.

OLED panels are too small & expensive and 4K/8K UHD will turn out to be just another gimmick akin to 3D TV.
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post #109 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

Will Samsung continue to offer the PNxxF8500AF series PDP through 2014?

Has Samsung been able to eliminate the panel buzz issues that are associated with this display?

IMO, this display may be the only, perhaps last, best choice available for buying an affordable, good quality HDTV.

OLED panels are too small & expensive and 4K/8K UHD will turn out to be just another gimmick akin to 3D TV.


Certainly hope so but there has not been any official confirmation on wether they will be available or not this year, but by not having any at CES , it's not a good indication that they will be available. OLED panels to small? 55" ain't small? Expensive? Yes.

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post #110 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 10:14 AM
 
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^Size is relative. When plasma has been available for years at 65", 55" is most certainly small in comparison. Now 77"...that's getting big. tongue.gif
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post #111 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 01:15 PM
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anytime the new tech is smaller than the old tech, it will be considered small.

whether or not you ever wanted/needed the largest sizes available of the old tech will depend on you, but generally speaking, yes, oled's are currently 'limited in size', but it's pretty clear from CES that that will be fixed at some point. both lcd and oled have been shown at 'too large to be practical' sizes. only OLED has any possibility of fixing that by making flexible displays that can be bent or rolled so they can actually fit through doorways and be installed in 'normal' homes.
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post #112 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

anytime the new tech is smaller than the old tech, it will be considered small.

whether or not you ever wanted/needed the largest sizes available of the old tech will depend on you, but generally speaking, yes, oled's are currently 'limited in size', but it's pretty clear from CES that that will be fixed at some point. both lcd and oled have been shown at 'too large to be practical' sizes. only OLED has any possibility of fixing that by making flexible displays that can be bent or rolled so they can actually fit through doorways and be installed in 'normal' homes.

I can see someone trying to fit their huge 77"-80" OLED in the house through doors and say oh honey it's ok, we can bend it or roll it, lol biggrin.gif

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post #113 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 01:43 PM
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I am glad I was able to get a 65ST60 with a 5yr warranty (several months ago) and a 50ST60 as a backup (a few weeks ago..took the 7yr warranty).

I am hoping both will last until just before the warranty ends..........
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post #114 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 01:48 PM
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I am glad I was able to get a 65ST60 with a 5yr warranty (several months ago) and a 50ST60 as a backup (a few weeks ago..took the 7yr warranty).

I am hoping both will last until just before the warranty ends..........

Warranty isn't going to do you much good other than to give you financial compensation if you develop panel issues since there won't be replacment parts to fix the TV.
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post #115 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by discopaul View Post

Certainly doesn't look good. I wouldn't mind if OLED was price competitive but it's not even close.

Maybe in 4 years we will see a 60" OLED for under 5K. Look how long it took plasma prices to come down.

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post #116 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

Warranty isn't going to do you much good other than to give you financial compensation if you develop panel issues since there won't be replacment parts to fix the TV.

Thanks for schooling me..............I obviously did not know that........... right !!
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post #117 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

Warranty isn't going to do you much good other than to give you financial compensation if you develop panel issues since there won't be replacment parts to fix the TV.

What the warranty will do...........is give me my money back if I don't use it...........or give me $1914 and $859 respectively towards hopefully some type of closer toward affordable OLED.
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post #118 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 02:46 PM
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That's why I always buy the warranty. Chances are in your favour today that you'll eventually get your money back. In the mean time the products are getting better for a better price. Try to buy a warranty that you can renew if possible.

I remember when products were built to last.
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post #119 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

If they were bringing out a new model, they would have showcased it at ces...

Curtain has closed on plasma from panasonic with remorseful applause just like pioneer before them. Samsung just quietly slipped off the stage last week.

Will Samsung continue to offer the PNxxF8500AF series PDP through 2014?

Has Samsung been able to eliminate the panel buzz issues that are associated with this display?
 

They cannot eliminate the buzzing in high altitudes. If you be a mountain man, it's too bad; you'd be better served with a CRT.

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post #120 of 155 Old 01-18-2014, 04:59 PM
 
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That's why I always buy the warranty. Chances are in your favour today that you'll eventually get your money back. In the mean time the products are getting better for a better price. Try to buy a warranty that you can renew if possible.
Chances are in your favor? If that were true, these warranty companies wouldn't be in business. I haven't heard of any outfits that make renewable warranties.
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