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post #1 of 31 Old 01-14-2014, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I know there are threads on Panasonic S60/ST60/Plasma's of all kinds, and threads on floor model Plasma TVs, but this one is kind of different, so any help is very much appreciated. I was pretty slow and stupid, and waited to buy a Panasonic plasma for ages, and I lost my chance, so now I'm down to Sears Outlet for Floor Models and refurbished ones (for the Panasonic 50" S60, I decided this was for me). Link: http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/product_details.jsp?md=ct_md&cid=892&pid=111362&mode=seeAll. I live in the New York City area, so I've called around to ask about details in the various Sears stores (all TV's on Outlet website that say "NEW" almost always turn out to be floor models). Prices in different places can be anywhere between $500 and $800, and the hours on each set vary between each store likewise. Basically, I'm wondering if it's worth it to go for the Panasonic 50" S60 (considering they're, along with the other models, about to disappear). Each store offers a 30 day return policy on these, so I could buy, examine for problems and return if necessary, but I'd rather not waste my time. For example, a Sears in Brooklyn has one for around $600 plus tax, with about 1000 hours. Should I jump on this, or is it better to give up on Panasonic Plasmas and go with something else?

 

Also, if this isn't a viable option, I was looking at the "VIZIO 47" RAZOR LED SMART TV, M471I-A2" and the "Samsung UN46F7100". What do people think about these ones, compared to the S60? Thanks for any help.

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post #2 of 31 Old 01-14-2014, 05:45 PM
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1000 hours is nothing really, but it's important that it didn't accumulate any IR over that time period, which you'll have to check in person. You can also keep an eye on Best Buy's open box deals by clicking on the store locator and then looking at each store's open box inventory, or going to their main clearance/open box search page within a 250 mile radius. The BB ones are often customer returns with very little hours on them, and that's the best situation ultimately.

Certainly I don't think anyone within this sub forum is going to advise you to buy a Vizio in the place of a Panasonic, even the S60. It's just worlds of difference in so many tangible ways that unless you are buying an LCD for its particular strengths as OPPOSED to plasma, there is no good reason to do it.

Another alternative is to get the Samsung PN-51F5300 (it has better color management controls than the next up model with "smart" features, Ironically enough), It doesn't get a whole lot of mention on here, but it's a solid performer that some of the guys have calibrated to surprisingly good results.
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post #3 of 31 Old 01-15-2014, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! I'll try to get to the place soon. Maybe I should bring some Blu-Rays to put on it. The S60 is beyond perfect for me; I need great PQ, I don't need tons of Smarts or 3D if it's going to jack up the price, and the input lag is perfect for my kids' Xbox. On top of this, I can't spend more than $1200, but if there's any other TV that meets those criteria, I'd be thrilled to know. 

 

Also, I guess that IR is the only thing I should worry about on a Floor Model? I'm wondering if the overall quality of the picture/TV in general goes down over time, especially on such high settings for all of its life. 

 

Thanks for the heads-up on the Vizio; I would have bought it if I hadn't know. 

 

I also didn't know that you could get a good PQ on the F5300. How do you think it compares to the S60? I suppose I would buy it along with a professional calibrator, to make sure I could get the most out of it. Like I said before, the F7100 looks great too, but if I can get around the same picture with both, I would definitely go for the cheaper one. 

 

I just looked at one of my local Best Buys "Open Box" and it says that they have not only a VT60 but a 46" F8000 for $1460. Sound good? I'll keep checking.

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post #4 of 31 Old 01-15-2014, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Great! I found some 50" ST60's for reasonable prices! I think I'll jump on it, I just hope the input lag won't be really, really bad for the gaming console. Any thoughts? I think this might be it, if I can't find an S60.

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post #5 of 31 Old 01-15-2014, 05:28 PM
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The Samsung has near equal PQ to the S60, but what I don't know is what the gaming story is for the Samsung.
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post #6 of 31 Old 01-15-2014, 05:49 PM
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You might even want to take a look at the new 2014 Vizio E series that is out now. It uses a FALD design with limited zones but should help out pq over what we have seen in 2013. If you aren't in a rush maybe even wait for the M series.

The ST60 is a great TV with high input lag though. If you plan on playing video games for hours a day you might be better with an LCD.
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post #7 of 31 Old 01-16-2014, 02:02 PM
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cylejuan, I was facing a very similar situation just last week.. my local BB had the last 50s60 floor model on "open box" sale for $560 w/ over 3000 hours:eek:. It was a tough decision, I also waited way too long to get my 1080p plasma... but ultimately I didn't want to regret not getting it while I could. Having had it up now for almost a week I can say without hesitation that it is the best investment I've made in a while.. since my unit was already "broken in", I used fairchild99's calibration settings (with some minor tweeks).. The difference between my 42" 720p and this unit is pretty amazing.. HD content is stunning, I am still in the awe of the picture and I even went ahead and ordered the Disney WOW disc that I've seen mentioned on many threads to see if there is possible improvements to be had..

So, I would go inspect the unit (not the picture cause it will not look great in the showroom) and find out what is missing cause the floor models usually don't come with everything - mine was missing the stand and the box. With only 1000 hours, I wouldn't worry too much about that.. just look for any image retention or burn in, i was pleased to see the content that BB was feeding it - no static images and all HD16/9 content..

Good luck, ultimately you have to decide whether you'll regret not taking the plunge at this point or get a Samsung later in the year before they exit stage left on plasmas as well..

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post #8 of 31 Old 01-16-2014, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dRwOOD73 View Post

cylejuan, I was facing a very similar situation just last week.. my local BB had the last 50s60 floor model on "open box" sale for $560 w/ over 3000 hours:eek:. It was a tough decision, I also waited way too long to get my 1080p plasma... but ultimately I didn't want to regret not getting it while I could. Having had it up now for almost a week I can say without hesitation that it is the best investment I've made in a while.. since my unit was already "broken in", I used fairchild99's calibration settings (with some minor tweeks).. The difference between my 42" 720p and this unit is pretty amazing.. HD content is stunning, I am still in the awe of the picture and I even went ahead and ordered the Disney WOW disc that I've seen mentioned on many threads to see if there is possible improvements to be had..

So, I would go inspect the unit (not the picture cause it will not look great in the showroom) and find out what is missing cause the floor models usually don't come with everything - mine was missing the stand and the box. With only 1000 hours, I wouldn't worry too much about that.. just look for any image retention or burn in, i was pleased to see the content that BB was feeding it - no static images and all HD16/9 content..

Good luck, ultimately you have to decide whether you'll regret not taking the plunge at this point or get a Samsung later in the year before they exit stage left on plasmas as well..

I was at Applebee's tonight with a friend and the one near me has Panasonic 50 inch plasmas kind of lining the dining room. These are most certainly at least 2 or 3 year old REAL "fat" cased models and I was still astonished at the PQ in the darkened Applebee's environment. The black levels may not have been incredibly dark, but the picture was still amazing for as many hours as those sets have probably racked up and what was more remarkable was that from a quick cursory inspection, I couldn't find any real obnoxious ESPN/NBC/Fox Sports burn on them, or really any at all. So whatever model/series those were, they obviously handle it better than the new ones. But the PQ was beautiful.
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post #9 of 31 Old 01-17-2014, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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In my family it's mostly going to be casual gaming, nothing serious. I'm hearing stories everywhere about how the lag was so bad, most people had to return the set, but I think we'd be fine.

 

Of course, I'd love to step up to the VT60, but it's extremely expensive. I might try to get Best Buy to price match some of the more shady dealers that go as low as $1650 for a 55". I don't think I'm going to go for any new panels, just the floor model and refurbished, etc. The others are just too expensive.

 

Tell me how serious you think the picture quality difference is between the ST60 and VT60. I have controlled lighting, so a screen finish isn't a variable for me. I think the VT60 input lag is a lot lower than the ST60, but the price is a lot higher. I doubt I'll step down to the S60, unless the picture is as good as the ST60. 

 

Any Thoughts?

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post #10 of 31 Old 01-17-2014, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies everybody! I'm sure I'll regret it if I don't buy any of these, plus, if I did ever want to get a new TV afterwards, I'm sure I could sell one of these for a good amount on Ebay. :) I'll check for any issues with any sets, and report any findings I have.

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post #11 of 31 Old 01-17-2014, 11:18 AM
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I was holding off getting a 50ST60. Couldn't afford it right now etc, etc. Then they started to disappear. Amazon had it in stock again and I sat undecided. I waited a couple of days and decided to go for it. They were gone and gone EVERYWHERE. 1 or 2 places with stock had jacked the price up by hundreds w/o free delivery. The price on the Samsung 8500 was dropping like a rock, and I considered that, but then Amazon had the 55VT60 for hundreds less than before. So I jumped on a 55VT60 for about what some places wanted for a 50ST60. It was a little big but I still did it. This TV is BREATHTAKING. The S60 is nice and certainly better than any LCD you're going to get at anywhere near the cost, but the VT is amazing. When there are true blacks on the screen the screen to bezel transition cannot even be seen. You stare at the screen and think of the people who pay DOUBLE for an LCD and try to imagine what kind of moron would do that.

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post #12 of 31 Old 01-17-2014, 11:59 AM
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Wow, you mean to say you bought a 55" VT60 for about $1,000?!  Thats as amazing as its picture quality!  You cant go wrong with any of the Panasonic and Samsung plasmas from 2013.  For the record, the 51" F5300 was my next choice after the S60 I ended up getting.. its a great tv too!


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post #13 of 31 Old 01-17-2014, 12:15 PM
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$1595 w inside delivery. About the same as a 50st60 with inside delivery and tax

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post #14 of 31 Old 01-17-2014, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Whoa! Where did you get it? Do they still have it in stock? I would do that in a second if it still existed. Even the shadiest TV dealers won't go that low. Has anybody compared the S, ST and VT side by side? What are the picture differences?

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post #15 of 31 Old 01-17-2014, 01:32 PM
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Amazon. Like I said, the ST were being jacked up all over on the remaining pieces, Amazon showed the VTs back in stock at a couple hundred less than a month or 2 ago and I jumped. I saw the Samsung 51-8500 @ $1500, but the VT is rated much better. Each Panasonic is "better" than the lower series but it depends on whether you want to pay for bells and whistles. The ST is much better than the S. The VT is slightly better than the ST but with bells and whistles (voice recognition??? Are you really going to talk to your TV??). The ZT has even more bells and whistles. The ST was the absolute best bang for the buck tv out there. The picture on my VT is better, but I have no need for the Bells and Whistles. It is connected to a media PC and any bell and whistle pales in comparison to the PC.

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post #16 of 31 Old 01-17-2014, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I see what you're saying. I don't need a smart TV, I need a great PQ for a "low" price. The lowest on Amazon right now is $1529 for a used TV, and the cheapest new one is $2119 (not counting another retailer on Amazon, but when I went to the site everything was wrong). The question for me is whether the price jump of ~$800 is worth the increase in PQ (again, bells and whistles are worthless to me). From what you're saying, I think it wouldn't be worth it, so ST60 looks better right now. On Amazon, the ST is almost the same price, but I can get a floor model from BB or Sears for about $200 more than the S60. 

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post #17 of 31 Old 01-17-2014, 02:54 PM
 
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Actually, the ZT loses bells and whistles (camera and higher quality speakers) in comparison to the VT but adds in features where it matters most (PQ with its filter, single-sheet-of-glass design). I guess it depends upon your definition of bells and whistles (voice recognition stays).
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post #18 of 31 Old 02-13-2014, 12:13 PM
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Which is a deal that YOU would buy?
Panasonic 55" ST60 for $1350
Panasonic 65" VT60 for $2250 (display)
Samsung 60" F8500 for $2300

 

Thank you in advance :)


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post #19 of 31 Old 02-13-2014, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKPolkMe View Post

Which is a deal that YOU would buy?

Panasonic 55" ST60 for $1350

Panasonic 65" VT60 for $2250 (display)

Samsung 60" F8500 for $2300

Thank you in advance smile.gif
55" is out, to small...

65" VT is nice but sometimes question display models and a lot can factor into that. Price also seems high for a display model right now.

For the F8500, call Chris at Cleveland Plasma. Trust me it will be worth your time and you most likely will walk away with the F8500, maybe even the 64" if you can swing a little more money but the 60" will be worth your call as well. Assuming you are in the US. Not sure how he handles international orders.
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post #20 of 31 Old 02-13-2014, 01:40 PM
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VT60

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post #21 of 31 Old 02-13-2014, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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IMO, the ST is a good deal, value wise (VT and F8500 aren't so much better to justify an extra $1000, in my life).

I'd disqualify the F8500, because the smaller size and higher price doesn't add up to the fact that, IMHO, the VT's picture quality is better. But of course, everybody has a different opinion on the matter, and you have your own setup, so go with whichever you feel is right. My father used to say, "If you have the money, and you want it, get it."

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post #22 of 31 Old 02-16-2014, 06:33 PM
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Went out Panasonic plasma hunting today!!! Need your advice please...Which of these floor models would you recommend buying based on value (performance to cost):

 

65" ZT60  $2,300  (2,875 hours)

60" ST60  $1,200  (2,030 hours)

60" VT60  $1,100  (3,440 hours)

60" ST60  $   800  (3,495 hours)

 

I have it in order of what I think is the best value and what I am leaning on purchasing.  I like the 65" ZT60 cause its has the size and picture quality!  I like the 60" ST60 cause of the lowest hours and has the value factor.

 

Please help make an educated decision.  Thank you


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post #23 of 31 Old 02-18-2014, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKPolkMe View Post
 

Went out Panasonic plasma hunting today!!! Need your advice please...Which of these floor models would you recommend buying based on value (performance to cost):

 

65" ZT60  $2,300  (2,875 hours)

60" ST60  $1,200  (2,030 hours)

60" VT60  $1,100  (3,440 hours)

60" ST60  $   800  (3,495 hours)

 

I have it in order of what I think is the best value and what I am leaning on purchasing.  I like the 65" ZT60 cause its has the size and picture quality!  I like the 60" ST60 cause of the lowest hours and has the value factor.

 

Please help make an educated decision.  Thank you

FYI, I don't think that an extra ~1000 hours will change much, if anything, with the TV. Obviously, check for IR (which would change everything), but between the two ST60s, $400 is a big difference for something that might not exist. For everything else, it's a matter of personal preference. Are you a gamer? The VT and ZT have less input lag than the ST. Will you be watching in a really, really bright room? The ZT has the darkest filter. It's all depends on what you're looking for. 

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post #24 of 31 Old 02-21-2014, 02:03 PM
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Niether . are you serious floor models? buy a new in box samsung plasma 60 inch under $8xx at costco . and edited on feb 23-14 as for the blu ray i would get a ps3 or a oppo and a nice sound system will be over $500 for receiver sub and 5 channels. and a Pn 60 F5300 is enough to most users and low price. is your decision based on money or comparing models?

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post #25 of 31 Old 02-21-2014, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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A new 60" Samsung F8500 is over $2240 (don't bother with the lower tier models for this comparison), which would be great except that you could get a 60" VT60 for over $1k less and have the same picture quality. As long as there isn't anything wrong with the floor model (every floor model is different, some have problems, others are as perfect as new), then the VT is the better choice, no? Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd save that money and get an amazing sound system, or blu-ray player, etc.

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post #26 of 31 Old 03-07-2014, 01:44 PM
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I am super close to purchasing a 65" Panasonic plasma tv but wanted to see what you all thought would be the best choice:

 

$1699 ST60 (floor model w/ 2700 hrs)

$2000 VT60 (floor model w/ 3400 hrs)

$2450 VT60 (NEW)

$2500 ZT60 (floor model w/ 2900 hrs)

 

Thanks in advance :) 


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post #27 of 31 Old 03-07-2014, 02:09 PM
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VT60 (new), however 3,000 hours is not much at all so pick what look better to you :)

 

--peteswede

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post #28 of 31 Old 03-07-2014, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
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VT60 (new), however 3,000 hours is not much at all so pick what look better to you :)

 

--peteswede


really you don't think 3000 isnt a lot? i kinda thought it was...but I guess it isnt if 50,000 is the plasma life right?


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post #29 of 31 Old 03-07-2014, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
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really you don't think 3000 isnt a lot? i kinda thought it was...but I guess it isnt if 50,000 is the plasma life right?

I think closer to 100k
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post #30 of 31 Old 03-07-2014, 05:56 PM
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I'd narrow it down to either the $1699 ST60 (floor model w/ 2700 hrs) or the New $2450 VT60 depending on your sources/content/viewing habits/requirements/viewing environment)

2700 hours is not a lot considering the panel is rated for 100,000 but i'd definitely check the panel for burn-in and scratches in the screen etc.

Personally, i'd take the VT60 since it's new, and has a decent price.

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