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ATTENTION - Samsung PNxxF5300 and PNxxF5350 - MLL Rise (just like Panasonic X1/S10/G10/V10/Z1) - Need a Fix

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#1 ·
Several members have already reported MLL rise with Samsung PNxxF5300 and PNxxF5350 and I am sure that if these sets were more popular then even more people with colorimeters/spectrometers would report the same issue. I am making this thread so that we can find out whether it affects all or only some sets and which sets they are. Some members reported that the issue started after updating to the latest firmware, but I think not - my set's MLL rose without applying any updates. The issue seems to be very similar to Panasonic X1/S10/G10/V10/Z1 models MLL rise, which received a fix after the issue was brought to attention. With these sets - MLL rise seems to happen much faster, but I am hoping that a similar fix can be done for them if enough people have and report the issue.


Model - Samsung PN51F5350. Original and current firmware version - 1025. Colorimeter - i1Display Pro. Software - CalMAN v5 Enthusiast.
Issue description:
Original out-of-the-box MLL without breaking in - 0.013 cd/m^2 without CS (CS = Cinema Smooth), with CS = have not tested out-of-the-box.
MLL after 48hrs of moderate use - 0.020 cd/m^2 without CS, 0.021 cd/m^2 with CS. No firmware was applied.


To all the owners of these sets - please provide your model number, original and current firmware versions, original and current MLL (or MLL for each firmware version),
colorimeter/spectrometer and software used. Please stick to cd/m^2 format or at least provide it along with fTL measure to make sure everyone is on the same page.
 
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#2 ·

Thanks for starting this thread. I just bought the PN51F5300; however, I have no metering equipment and I'm new to the science of calibration. My set was manufactured in October, shipped with firmware v.1025, updated to v.1027, and it has seen approx. 150 hours of use.
 
#4 ·
OK, well, I wish I could edit thread title, but regardless of that - we need way more reports either here or somewhere else to show that this is a persistent problem. We also need people with colorimeters because just saying you got one of these TVs isn't going to help anyone figure out if you have that problem or not.
 
#5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikwasi  /t/1514449/attention-samsung-pnxxf5...ic-x1-s10-g10-v10-z1-need-a-fix#post_24272811


Thanks for starting this thread. I just bought the PN51F5300; however, I have no metering equipment and I'm new to the science of calibration. My set was manufactured in October, shipped with firmware v.1025, updated to v.1027, and it has seen approx. 150 hours of use.

You could rent a colorimeter or a spectrometer too if you wish to save money and calibrate your TV.
 
#6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX  /t/1514449/attention-samsung-pnxxf5...ic-x1-s10-g10-v10-z1-need-a-fix#post_24272627


Several members have already reported MLL rise with Samsung PNxxF5300 and PNxxF5350 and I am sure that if these sets were more popular then even more people with colorimeters/spectrometers would report the same issue. I am making this thread so that we can find out whether it affects all or only some sets and which sets they are. Some members reported that the issue started after updating to the latest firmware, but I think not - my set's MLL rose without applying any updates. The issue seems to be very similar to Panasonic X1/S10/G10/V10/Z1 models MLL rise, which received a fix after the issue was brought to attention. With these sets - MLL rise seems to happen much faster, but I am hoping that a similar fix can be done for them if enough people have and report the issue.


Model - Samsung PN51F5350. Original and current firmware version - 1025. Colorimeter - i1Display Pro. Software - CalMAN v5 Enthusiast.
Issue description:
Original out-of-the-box MLL without breaking in - 0.013 cd/m^2 without CS (CS = Cinema Smooth), with CS = have not tested out-of-the-box.
MLL after 48hrs of moderate use - 0.020 cd/m^2 without CS, 0.021 cd/m^2 with CS. No firmware was applied.


To all the owners of these sets - please provide your model number, original and current firmware versions, original and current MLL (or MLL for each firmware version),
colorimeter/spectrometer and software used. Please stick to cd/m^2 format or at least provide it along with fTL measure to make sure everyone is on the same page.

PN51F5300 (Sample one, November build), Firmware 1025, MLL 0.004 fL to 0.005 fL (with CS off)


PN51F5300 (Sample two, October build, current one I own), Firmware 1023 upgraded to 1027.2, MLL 0.006 fL to 0.007 fL... was 0.004 fL to 0.005 fL before update (all with CS off)


0.004 fL ~ 0.0137 cdm

0.005 fL ~ 0.0171 cdm

0.006 fL ~ 0.0206 cdm

0.007 fL ~ 0.0240 cdm


*SpectraCAL C6 colorimeter used with CalMAN 5 Enthusiast Software
 
#15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U  /t/1514449/attention-samsung-pnxxf5...ic-x1-s10-g10-v10-z1-need-a-fix#post_24274643


Chad B mentioned this behavior on recent F8500 PDPs.

Can you provide a link?
 
#16 ·
Oh wait, here it is.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B  /t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/3420#post_24275563


I have not given any figures publicly, mainly because, unlike the Panasonic 60 series, I've only done a handful of F8500s. The initial set I reviewed set the standard for plasma brightness and had pretty good black levels. The second I don't remember the black level, but I remember light output only got in the 40's fL range. That sample had had a screen replaced by an authorized tech, though, and I was unsure if it was representative of a normal sample. However, the next two I have done have also only managed in the 40's, and they had much worse black level measurements than the review set both with / without content and with / without black optimizer.

What I've observed might not be rising blacks as hours accumulate; it might be due more to a change in FW or manufacturing.
 
#17 ·
I definately measured a rise in the black level, but I attributed it to the newest firmware update.


Here are my details.


Model Number: PN51F5300AF


Build Date: March 2013 - Purchased in July 2013


Measurement Equipment: ColorHCFR with a retail i1 Display Pro


Measurements Taken with Firmware version 1017.1 in mid December 2013:

All taken with Black Optimizer set to Dark Room

With Cinema Smooth on: .004 fL (.0137 cd/m²)

With Cinema Smooth off: .005 fL (.0171 cd/m²)


Measurement Taken with Firmware version 1027.2 in mid January 2014:

All taken with Black Optimizer set to Dark Room

With Cinema Smooth on: .005 fL (.0171 cd/m²)

With Cinema Smooth off: .006 fL - .007 fL (.02056 cd/m² - .024 cd/m²)


Now, I must say that after about an hour or so on the newest firmware, I noticed the black levels seemingly "settled in" and measured what they did on the 1017.1 firmware. With 1017.1, I was getting the darker black levels right away and it never moved from there.


Either way, none of these changes were noticable to me in regular viewing.
 
#19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U  /t/1514449/attention-samsung-pnxxf5...ic-x1-s10-g10-v10-z1-need-a-fix#post_24276903


what does with or without content refer to exactly?

Eactly what it says. For further clarification, contact Chad.
 
#20 ·
I wonder if the panel version code has anything to do with MLL? US01 vs. US02? If everyone here with a PNxxF5300 or PNxxF5350 could post what version they have, it could help determine if this code has anything to do with the MLL differences reported. This could clarify whether this MLL difference is due mainly to FW or manufacturing differences.
 
#23 ·
I recently had the main board replaced due to a picture problem with the component input (too dark shadows with no detail plus dim whites with default Movie mode settings). The new board came with firmware 1024.0, which is where I left it. After a few days (today), I decided to measure MLL on a fully black screen and it still measures 0.006 fL to 0.007 fL with a 1080/60p signal. So, it appears to be a manufacturing issue instead of firmware (unless it has something to do with the Logic Board S/W version, which is separate from the main board firmware version). Too bad.
 
#25 ·
Well I don't have a meter, but I do have a pn51f5300a with 1023 firmware sitting right next to a pn43d450 and it doesn't look good



In a dark room, with black optimizer set to off, and cell light at 0 on both plasmas (all other settings like dynamic contrast turned off), the no signal screen shows them as near identical in black level.

If anything to my eyes the d450 is actually edging out the f5300 for black level.


This is ridiculous. Is there anyway we can just revert firmware?



I'm sending an angry letter to samsung and hopefully they will fix this mess.

Although perhaps Samsung found in long term testing that pixels would missfire with the original settings, that's the only reason I can think of.
 
#26 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James  /t/1514449/attention-samsung-pnxxf5...ic-x1-s10-g10-v10-z1-need-a-fix#post_24746009


Well I don't have a meter, but I do have a pn51f5300a with 1023 firmware sitting right next to a pn43d450 and it doesn't look good



In a dark room, with black optimizer set to off, and cell light at 0 on both plasmas (all other settings like dynamic contrast turned off), the no signal screen shows them as near identical in black level.

If anything to my eyes the d450 is actually edging out the f5300 for black level.


This is ridiculous. Is there anyway we can just revert firmware?



I'm sending an angry letter to samsung and hopefully they will fix this mess.

Although perhaps Samsung found in long term testing that pixels would missfire with the original settings, that's the only reason I can think of.

It wasn't firmware at least in my case, since I had my main board replaced with a new one that had older firmware and the black level did not go down. So, I think it's more a panel lottery thing where some panels do a bit better in black level than others. FWIW, with 1200 hours on my set, I'm now getting a black level of about 0.0056 fL with black optimizer set to dark room (and 0.009 fL with it off).
 
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