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-   -   Official Samsung PNxxF8500 "Bugs" Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-plasma-flat-panel-displays/1515070-official-samsung-pnxxf8500-bugs-thread.html)

Ronald Epstein 01-30-2014 12:38 PM

With the advice of AVS member pieandchips, thought it would be a good idea to create a thread where Samsung F8500 owners can quickly communicate with each other on various "bugs" that currently exist with the display.

 

One of the biggest arguments between owners is the use of Cinema Smooth.   

 

Many of us have argued that without Cinema Smooth enabled, the F8500 picture has a "soap opera" effect to it in both 3D and 2D mode.

 

Others have argued that Cinema Smooth needs to be turned off to get rid of the "soap opera" effect.

 

Turns out the reason so many owners were getting conflicting results is due to a bug that is inherent in the display, as of Firmware 1117.

 

 

I want to thank wxman, muffinmcfluffin and pieandchips for the following fix....

 

Quote:
There still is an occasional bug when you turn off CINEMA SMOOTH. It sometime puts MOTION JUTTER CONTROL in smooth, even though it says it is off. So immediately after turning CS off, turn MJC to smooth, and then back to off. Then you can watch all your 24p material without issues. You only need to do this once, unless you turn CS on again. For some weird reason, they have not fixed this bug with MJC. 

 

Quote:
There is a bug whereby MJC activates wen you DISABLE CS. You have to enable then disable MJC for it to clear

 

I am interested to see how many other owners this fix works for and if we can all finally come to agreement that Cinema Smooth is not good for this display in 2D or 3D.

 

And, moving forward, we can use this thread to report any other bugs/fixes with this display.


dubusduck 01-30-2014 06:59 PM

With 1117 I noticed black levels raised in CS so much that I turned 24fps off on my bluray player. That helped, but mll too high still. I had to turn my bluray player's contrast down to compensate. With 1118 black levels look much better. No problem with 24fps or CS. No more firmware updates for me. Learned my lesson.

JimP 01-30-2014 07:35 PM

I just tested my F8500 to see if turning on CS has any effect on black level.

It appears that black level stayed the same at .002 foot lamberts.

Ronald Epstein 01-30-2014 11:06 PM

Just wondering if the workaround above fixed the soap opera effect for everyone.....

 

....and how is everyone doing with firmware update 1118?


muffinmcfluffin 01-31-2014 12:08 AM

Now wait a minute, just because there is a "fix" for this in 2D (which I always knew this to be the case since the first second I noticed MJC was kicking in for whatever reason and disabled it) doesn't mean that CS is bad for it in 2D. I believe it's bad for it in 3D and I prefer having CS off in 3D fully (as I mentioned time and time and time again), but in 2D I can't watch BD's with Cinema Smooth disabled. It looks so much better with it on in 2D IMO.

49ers 02-01-2014 11:43 PM

My f8500 64 is having random flashes. not sure what's causing this. black optimizer is on auto. would be a shame if this is causing this and cannot utilize this function.

wxman 02-02-2014 01:04 AM

CS works great 99% of the time. However since it basically using 4 identical frames in 96hz (4x24hz) to give the movie a smoother flow, every once in awhile it will hiccup and you can see an extra frame, or brief stutter.

Ronald Epstein 02-02-2014 02:29 AM

So, is the final recommendation to turn on Cinema Smooth for 2D and leave it off for 3D?


WantsNWarrants 02-02-2014 02:39 AM

To the best fo my knowledge, there are only 3 "bugs" with respect to the F8500:

ECO bug (search "Floridaman"). This manifests itself as a "dimness" (for lack of a better description) that disappears when ECO is turned on and then off again after the MINIMUM cell value is altered. In other words, ECO goes on and defaults to CELL LIGHT value of 0, causing a dim display. This "bug" was fixed in later firmware. "Later" is not known but it appears that FW 1111 and later fix this.

BAD UPGRADE: Beginning with (about) 1115 FW, when an upgrade to FW was allowed while inputs were connected, a serious degredation in PQ occurred. Terminology differs, but "hazy", "indistinct", "less defined" and other descriptions said (basically) "before I upgraded, the PQ was fantastic, now it SUCKS\BLOWS CHUNKS". The fix is a full factory reset done from the service menu while all inputs are disconnected. Search postings by CamaroDrvr Damien Inferno for the exact sequence to overcome this. Edit to correctly attribute the OP. The link to Damien Inferno's post is http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24101072

CINEMA SMOOTH and MOTION JUDDER CANLCELLER: When CS is turned off, MJC is turned on. The fix is to set MJC to SMOOTH and then back to OFF. This bug is not currently corrected. NOTE that MJC will report OFF even though it is ON, so Just Do It.

One other previous bug was "brightness pops" in 2D and 3D. Since neither has been reported recently, it is assumed that both have been corrected in FW 1116 and newer.

So my question and point is "why do we need a 'bugs' thread?" Isn't it more appropriate to ask Value Electronics to intervene with Samsung to get this stuff resolved? In plain English, YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE IF YOU EXPECT THE EAR OF SAMSUNG. VE does have it. AVS does not.

Ronald Epstein 02-02-2014 04:13 AM

Quote:
So my question and point is "why do we need a 'bugs' thread?"

 

As the person who started this thread (from an idea expressed by another AVS member), I can see the need for a bugs thread.

 

In short, this thread is a handy one-stop resource for F8500 owners who may not be aware of what quirks/bugs exist with their display.

 

The discussion of these bugs were occurring in other F8500 threads, but getting lost in the total wealth of posting activity.

 

I think it's important to put these bugs up front, in a single thread, where all we discuss are quirky issues related to the display and temporary workarounds that can be done.

 

 

Quote:
Isn't it more appropriate to ask Value Electronics to intervene with Samsung to get this stuff resolved?

 

 

Yes, it is.  And this is the first time I am even hearing that Robert Zohn may have some influence with Samsung to get these issues resolved.

 

So, with that in mind, I am going to personally contact Mr. Zohn and make him aware of the problems being discussed here.

 

....however with that in mind, this thread would make the perfect reference point for Samsung to look at after Mr. Zohn alerts them of our concerns....don't you think?

 

 

Quote:
In plain English, YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE IF YOU EXPECT THE EAR OF SAMSUNG.

 

 

I don't think anyone here ever thought Samsung was reading this thread.  Heck, contact their customer support and their own reps have no clue about these displays.

 

However, as I mentioned previously, this is a reference thread for owners.  Not Samsung.

 

I will go ahead and make certain that Robert Zohn (if he has the influence you say he does) is aware of this thread.  I can ask him to contact Samsung on our behalf.


JimP 02-02-2014 06:16 AM

To add to what Ronald posted, the other threads have gotten so large that having one place where you can concisely find these bugs and some fixes has value.

WantsNWarrants summarized it very well.

Ronald Epstein 02-02-2014 07:06 AM

I am in the middle of watching From Here To Eternity on Blu-ray.

 

My real, first full-length movie watch since calibration.

 

Noticing slight stuttering from time to time in picture.

 

Anything in the settings that may need to be turned on to prevent it?


WVZR1 02-02-2014 07:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

I am in the middle of watching From Here To Eternity on Blu-ray.

My real, first full-length movie watch since calibration.

Noticing slight stuttering from time to time in picture.

Anything in the settings that may need to be turned on to prevent it?

Now there's the type of post that create the "nuisances" for most! You mention it's your "first full length" "SIT DOWN AND WATCH" so why on earth would you be concerned until after maybe several "full length" "SIT DOWN AND WATCH" viewings? Way to many things to be concerned about. If you have issues after maybe a half dozen or so "viewings" on "ALL" of them I might be concerned but on a "single" - I just can't understand the "looking for" something to dick with!

Ronald Epstein 02-02-2014 08:32 AM

Quote:
Now there's the type of post that create the "nuisances" for most! You mention it's your "first full length" "SIT DOWN AND WATCH" so why on earth would you be concerned until after maybe several "full length" "SIT DOWN AND WATCH" viewings? 

 

I will tell you why I am concerned.

 

I had all sorts of settings (Cinema Smooth, Judder Control, etc.) turned on prior to calibration that were turned off afterwards.

 

So, this being the first time I have noticed slight picture stutter, I am curious to see if something that was turned off perhaps should have been left on.

 

Sorry you got so offended by my post, but I see perfect logic in asking the question.


Ronald Epstein 02-02-2014 08:37 AM

...by the way...

 

I'm in communication with Robert Zohn of Value Electronics and he is willing to help push any issues anyone has with Samsung bugs to their engineering team.

 

I am compiling a list based on what has been posted here and submitting it to him.

 

I will keep you updated on any progress that is being made.


cbrnmarine 02-02-2014 08:45 AM

"Weird volume display issue with new PN64F8500 connected to Onkyo 605"

 

Hello F8500 owners!  I'm having a strange problem with my new 8500.  Hopefully some of you have already solved this.  I have a directv STB and PS3 connected to my Onkyo 605 and HDMI out from the 605 to the 8500.  Performance is mind blowing as you already know.  This TV rocks.  But when I adjust volume with either remote (directv or either Samsung) I see 2 volume bars flash on the screen (2 similar but different styles).  They both appear to be Samsung because I see the Anynet logo on each of them.  One displays a speaker then volume number, and the other displays little dots to gauge volume.  It still works but is extremely annoying.

 

Other than that everything else is great except that I can't listen to smarthub apps unless I physically cycle through the digital input button on my 605 (I guess there isn't a remote button for that).  I have a digital optical cable running from the 8500 to the 605.  This isnt really a problem because I'm still used to using Netflix and Vudu from the PS3.

 

Well, that's about it.  Appreciate your experiences with these issues if you can relate.  Since my set just arrived yesterday let me know if you have any questions for me (software ver is 1118).  Look forward to chatting with you all.

 

Scott   


muffinmcfluffin 02-02-2014 09:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

So, is the final recommendation to turn on Cinema Smooth for 2D and leave it off for 3D?

If Cinema Smooth off worked correctly for 3D on my display, I would say yes. For me, either is completely unwatchable. CS enabled for 3D is headache inducing and changes the appearance of the entire image (in other words, I would have to "recalibrate" it compared to my "CS off" settings), and with CS disabled for 3D I have tons of crosstalk and the "brightness pops" issue (I'll go into further detail about that shortly). Whether I can get these resolved or not is one thing, but in essence the F8500 acts identically to the D7000 in terms of CS disabled being better for 3D material. I'm not sure why this is the case, because CS enabled for 2D material is the way to go IMO.

Anyway, onto the "brightness pops" issue...

It is more of a "darkness pop." I have since realized though that it is not the television that's doing it, it is the glasses. In other words, if you remove the glasses, you won't see the effect on your television. It's a communication issue between the glasses and the television, where the television is telling the glasses to darken at certain moments. Why is this happening? I have no idea. However, I have tried this with three sets of Samsung glasses. I have the ones that came with the TV, the SSG-2100AB's, and the SSG-3570CR's. All of them make this happen. This does not happen with CS enabled, by the way. So again, just remember that this is an effect only seen in the glasses, meaning it is an effect being done by the glasses themselves. Obviously the TV and the feature being off has something to do with it, but it is not the TV that is performing the actual visual effect that we have been calling "brightness pops," at least not for this specific issue.

wxman 02-02-2014 12:45 PM

I do not know if this is a bug, or just normal. Eco mode is set separately for each mode. I thought when I did the eco mode trick in movie mode, where you turn it on, and crank it up from zero to 20 and then turn off, it would be for all modes. But I discovered that in all the other modes it is still zero, until I do the trick for each mode (standard, day, night, etc.)

WantsNWarrants 02-02-2014 11:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

I do not know if this is a bug, or just normal. Eco mode is set separately for each mode. I thought when I did the eco mode trick in movie mode, where you turn it on, and crank it up from zero to 20 and then turn off, it would be for all modes. But I discovered that in all the other modes it is still zero, until I do the trick for each mode (standard, day, night, etc.)

Am I not wrong then to say that this bug is fixed? If I understand your post, your FW is at least 1116 and you still see this happening?

WantsNWarrants 02-02-2014 11:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

I am in the middle of watching From Here To Eternity on Blu-ray.

My real, first full-length movie watch since calibration.

Noticing slight stuttering from time to time in picture.

Anything in the settings that may need to be turned on to prevent it?

Don't be too quick to condemn the F8500. 99% of the time such problems are in the media being sent to it. If you see it on other BD discs, expecially more recent ones, THEN is when to look for a solution in the F8500. Remember the old computer addage GIGO.

wxman 02-02-2014 11:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WantsNWarrants View Post

Am I not wrong then to say that this bug is fixed? If I understand your post, your FW is at least 1116 and you still see this happening?

I don't see the issue with the screen not being bright. Was just curious if what I saw with eco mode was normal. The eco mode bug causing the screen to be dull is/was a separate issue and does not seem to be a problem on my tv, and I am on 1118.

WantsNWarrants 02-02-2014 11:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

I don't see the issue with the screen not being bright. Was just curious if what I saw with eco mode was normal. The eco mode bug causing the screen to be dull is/was a separate issue and does not seem to be a problem on my tv, and I am on 1118.

Well, I can confirm that YES IT IS NORMAL if you mean that you have\had to run the ECO thing for each mode. I was counfounded by the low cell (easily seen) when switching between modes, but now that my 3 inputs have been "Floridaman"ed, I get the expected results. I realized this when my CAL NIGHT displayed gray whites.

wxman 02-02-2014 11:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

I am in the middle of watching From Here To Eternity on Blu-ray.

My real, first full-length movie watch since calibration.

Noticing slight stuttering from time to time in picture.

Anything in the settings that may need to be turned on to prevent it?

Do you have CS on? I get that brief stutter from time to time. Every frame is actually 4 frames (96hz= 4x24hz). With CS off, and making sure MJC is truly off with the bug fix, you should not see the stutter. According to Kevin Miller's review, he did not like CS on as it added too much judder and rather have 60hz processing with 3:2 pulldown which what happens with CS off as tv converts 24hz to 60hz.

http://www.tweaktv.com/in-dspth-hdtv-reviews/preliminary-review-of-samsungs-new-pn60f8500-plasma.html

muffinmcfluffin 02-03-2014 12:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

Do you have CS on? I get that brief stutter from time to time. Every frame is actually 4 frames (96hz= 4x24hz). With CS off, and making sure MJC is truly off with the bug fix, you should not see the stutter. According to Kevin Miller's review, he did not like CS on as it added too much judder and rather have 60hz processing with 3:2 pulldown which what happens with CS off as tv converts 24hz to 60hz.

http://www.tweaktv.com/in-dspth-hdtv-reviews/preliminary-review-of-samsungs-new-pn60f8500-plasma.html

And I still question that portion of his review, especially if he considers himself to be a purist. Also IIRC, this was during the time that there was a rise in MLL with CS enabled. He reviewed this television far before any FW updates came out.

I would take his impressions on that worth a grain of salt, honestly. It's based on outdated firmware, period.

I hardly get that stutter, and when I do normally it's just after unpausing.

wxman 02-03-2014 12:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

And I still question that portion of his review, especially if he considers himself to be a purist. Also IIRC, this was during the time that there was a rise in MLL with CS enabled. He reviewed this television far before any FW updates came out.

I would take his impressions on that worth a grain of salt, honestly. It's based on outdated firmware, period.

I hardly get that stutter, and when I do normally it's just after unpausing.

Thanks for the info. Yea, he stated that CS off and MJC at standard. Tried that and it does not work well. The brief stutter is probably more likely related to the fact that Samsung and others don't always process 24p properly at 23.98fps.

fierce_gt 02-03-2014 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post

With 1117 I noticed black levels raised in CS so much that I turned 24fps off on my bluray player. That helped, but mll too high still. I had to turn my bluray player's contrast down to compensate. With 1118 black levels look much better. No problem with 24fps or CS. No more firmware updates for me. Learned my lesson.

so doing the update fixed the problem?

I keep reading about all these fw updates, half the ppl claim they ruined something, the other half claim they fix something. I've done every update since 1112(I think was the first I had to do when I bought it) and I honestly haven't noticed any change from any update regarding image quality.

I am always nervous about 'fixing something that isn't broken', but so far doing the updates hasn't really been an issue.

i'm on 1117 right now, and haven't noticed any changes. but i'm sure i'll update tonight(now that I know there is one)

dubusduck 02-04-2014 02:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

so doing the update fixed the problem?

I keep reading about all these fw updates, half the ppl claim they ruined something, the other half claim they fix something. I've done every update since 1112(I think was the first I had to do when I bought it) and I honestly haven't noticed any change from any update regarding image quality.

I am always nervous about 'fixing something that isn't broken', but so far doing the updates hasn't really been an issue.

i'm on 1117 right now, and haven't noticed any changes. but i'm sure i'll update tonight(now that I know there is one)

Yes. I noticed over several updates that my picture quality suffered - specifically black levels and detail retrieval. I unplugged all sources, downloaded the update, and did a factory reset. Result? Black levels came back and detail retrieval came back too - yeah!!!!!!!!!!

KONICA TECH 02-04-2014 03:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post


Yes. I noticed over several updates that my picture quality suffered - specifically black levels and detail retrieval. I unplugged all sources, downloaded the update, and did a factory reset. Result? Black levels came back and detail retrieval came back too - yeah!!!!!!!!!!

Your welcome:)


Dougofthenorth 02-05-2014 04:04 AM

I think this is relevant here as a bug, due to quite a few complaints & many set exchanges because of it
NOTE: WVZR1 also posted buzz fix info in post #3755 of a related thread

!!!!! POSSIBLE F8500 PLASMA BUZZ FIX !!!!

After about 4 months of putting up with an annoying audible low buzz on my replacement 60F8500,
& since I had to pull out the TV & component stands to install my Oppo 103D,
a friend came over to help, I decided to take it off the stand & raise the set up a bit by putting it on the TV stand's built-in Vesa mount assembly
- hoping to place the buzz focus higher up.

Well!! after doing that, did it ever start to buzz VERY loud, like a wharehouse flourecent
fixture's ballast going bad!! From the top left corner, when facing the rear, from my friend gripping that corner when moving the set.
This was a totally new buzz & from a new area.

!!!! THE FIX !!!!

So I went around the back metal panel, pushing with a finger or squeezing the bevel in/out/towards the panel, on different areas
all around the back & I found out by doing that, I could get the buzzes to stop or I could actually initiate a new buzz or increase or decrease existing buzzes
all around the back. I took a Philips screwdriver & loosened or tightened the screws, sometimes squeezing the bevel or metal cover or some combination
of the two, or sometimes just backing the screw out then in without touching the set. I had to play around with that in different areas.
sometimes when I loosened/tightened a screw, it would cause a buzz from an adjacent area. Some screws needed to be tightened more, some had to be backed off a bit.

!!!! THE RESULT !!!!

I now have a virtually buzz free set!! Any buzzes that are remaining,
are so low, they are only heard with ear placed a few inches from set.

I'm not surprised, as Samsung itself since ~2009 have offered a free warranty kit with gaskets or plastic washers for their plasmas.
I came across many instances of this when researching my F8500 purchase - surprised I never considered this until now redface.gif

Good luck & hopes this helps others!
So in addition to tweaking our settings, some have to tweak/tune the back panels as well

Denniswrly 02-05-2014 08:20 AM

Can someone link me to how to do a Factory reset properly please...Search for it in forumn cannot find it now..ty. 8i have not done one since 1118 update and i see tennis ball trails and some motion issues.i tried every setting i think and to no fix...


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