Plasmas disappearing. Should this (aging 27" CRT) viewer get a 42" or 43" 720p soon? Pls comment. - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Not to mention the buzzing. wink.gif


Ian biggrin.gif

I always wear a pair of sennheiser HD595 headphones when watching movies, which would probably block out the buzz anyways. tongue.gif
A little bit of buzz wouldn't bother me, but a lifeless Dim picture(ala the S60) definitely would and has been since i've owned the bloody thing. lol
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:13 PM
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fyi the PN51F5300 is at costco for $549.00.  Im scoring a p42x60 for $235 on craigslist as a master bedroom tv.  So at that price Ill be quite happy with it even if its not 1080p.  I have a p50s64 in the living room and absolutely love it.  

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Old 02-13-2014, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Broadus View Post
 

I can't speak about other plasmas, but we set up our new PN51F5300 (a fortuitous new-at-open-box price since BB couldn't find the open box model they assured me they had before I made the trip) yesterday and are delighted with it. Of course, we were coming from an old Samsung 25" CRT. We simply have the picture set on "Standard" and haven't done any tweaking, but it's a keeper for us.


First things first--be sure you turn "ECO" mode off!! (if it uses it)

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Old 02-13-2014, 11:54 AM
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First things first--be sure you turn "ECO" mode off!! (if it uses it)

 

Thanks. It does and I did. :) That was one thing I remembered from what I had read.

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Old 02-15-2014, 10:28 AM
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i know where you are coming from almost nothing compared to crt tube PQ , but that was 10 yrs ago or so now plasma tech is almost dead and i too suggest the samsung f5300 series , i picked up the 60 inch for my living room and i love it. its still too small for my taste but its the best i can do for a sub par of $8xx .

PQ is very excellent especially for the price. to me the brightness of the tv is enough actually a tad too much bright. i watch dark home theater like .

i bought mine at costco a few days ago. i suggest you run this break in slides. http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/0_100

run it as soon as you get the tv. . if you run in dynamic mode then make sure its only running the break in slides . its a set of different colors . it helps to age the pixels evenly. 150 hrs worth would be recomended.

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Old 02-15-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Michial Brown View Post
 

fyi the PN51F5300 is at costco for $549.00.  Im scoring a p42x60 for $235 on craigslist as a master bedroom tv.  So at that price Ill be quite happy with it even if its not 1080p.  I have a p50s64 in the living room and absolutely love it.  


Speaking of that, I have a PN51F4500 and a P50x60 and dont miss the 1080p whatsoever.  In fact, Ive been watching a lot of the Sochi Olympics via OTA DVR on the Samsung and I am still just in awe of the picture quality.   Last night I was watching the Aerials and just had to pause it every now and then because it was so beautiful. The colors look so bright, yet natural, and the contrast is stunning-- when the skiers would hit the jump and go above the camera , and all you see in the background is the black of night and the snow they kicked up, you can EASILY see and appreciate the contrast and color clarity of this set. 

 

It may be a cheap plasma, but the IQ really is head and shoulders above anything Ive ever watched before.  The x60 looks great as well, but the 4500 looks better.  Ive tuned both to the Olympics and walked between rooms checking them out and the Samsung just looks better for watching OTA HD content.  Ive played with settings on the Panny, and it without a doubt it does look very good, but I just can't quite get it to match the eye pleasing picture the 4500 puts out.  This is just for watching OTA HD content though-- I have noticed some areas (certain resolutions, black handling, etc) where the Panasonic seems to have the upper hand.

 

I digress though, this post is not about the Samsung vs. the Panasonic -- it is about how good both these sets look in despite them being "just" 720p sets.  I firmly believe most people coming from CRTs to one of these sets will be blown away by what they can do.  Speaking strictly from my personal experience, both of these sets deliver contrast and black levels way beyond anything I have ever seen on a CRT or LCD/LED set.  That said, I also think they produce a very CRT-like image, which is yet another plus in my book.


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Old 02-15-2014, 06:27 PM
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Wow! The "SOCHI" Winter games actually look good on a plasma? I just recommended someone to buy an E550 Samsung plasma and the first thing he said was "The Sochi games look crap."

Really curious about the brightness capability of the 51 inch F4500...
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Wow! The "SOCHI" Winter games actually look good on a plasma? I just recommended someone to buy an E550 Samsung plasma and the first thing he said was "The Sochi games look crap."

Really curious about the brightness capability of the 51 inch F4500...

Olympics look good on every tv I have in the house. I really don't understand why anybody ever has a problem with bright images. they seem like they are the easiest to display. it's only when I watch dark movies that I can really tell the difference between plasma and lcd

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Old 02-15-2014, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Wow! The "SOCHI" Winter games actually look good on a plasma? I just recommended someone to buy an E550 Samsung plasma and the first thing he said was "The Sochi games look crap."

Really curious about the brightness capability of the 51 inch F4500...

 

Sochi looks good on our new PN51F5300, despite running it in 16:9 with lower contrast and brightness while breaking it it. I'm sure it would look much better later, but I'm trying to be patient through my paranoia about image retention.

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Old 02-15-2014, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Wow! The "SOCHI" Winter games actually look good on a plasma? I just recommended someone to buy an E550 Samsung plasma and the first thing he said was "The Sochi games look crap."

Really curious about the brightness capability of the 51 inch F4500...

See for yourself.  These pics dont do the set justice, they are from a 10 year old 3.2 Megapixel Fuji, but you can get an idea at least.
 

 

The brightness is very good, its in our bedroom which has a double window and a windowed door to the outside of the house-- I watch it often while eating breakfast and lunch

when Im at home and it looks great in daylight.

 

 

 

 


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Old 02-15-2014, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post

See for yourself.  These pics dont do the set justice, they are from a 10 year old 3.2 Megapixel Fuji, but you can get an idea at least.

 

The brightness is very good, its in our bedroom which has a double window and a windowed door to the outside of the house-- I watch it often while eating breakfast and lunch
when Im at home and it looks great in daylight.












Josh, just curious, but did you cross shop between the 43 inch model and 51 inch models when you bought your 51 inch F4500? Was there any difference in brightness? It's very peculiar to hear that someone is very happy with brightness and ABLs on saturation heavy Nintendo games on a plasma TV. Nintendo games were the most difficult materials to work with on my Panasonic S60. I know the F4500 is brighter than the S60, but how much brighter? That I don't know. Seems we can only use LCDs as a reference.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:41 PM
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Josh, just curious, but did you cross shop between the 43 inch model and 51 inch models when you bought your 51 inch F4500? Was there any difference in brightness? It's very peculiar to hear that someone is very happy with brightness and ABLs on saturation heavy Nintendo games on a plasma TV. Nintendo games were the most difficult materials to work with on my Panasonic S60. I know the F4500 is brighter than the S60, but how much brighter? That I don't know. Seems we can only use LCDs as a reference.

 

I did get a chance to look at a 43 inch model 4500 alongside a 43 inch X60 Panasonic at a Sears showroom and they both looked great, but I didnt get to try game consoles on them.  There was also a Panasonic 50S60 in the same showroom, and it looked very dim.  I had heard the S60 was "the" TV for gaming so I checked it out very closely.  I even grabbed the remote and tried jacking the brightness and contrast settings up, but I couldnt get it to look anywhere near as bright as the smaller 4500 and X60 right next to it.  It remained unattractively dim in comparison.

 

I havent noticed any problems whatsoever with ABL on this set-- does it even have it?  Ive been watching a lot of snow covered backgrounds in the Olympics and there hasnt been any noticable dimming in transitions from dark to bright scenes.

 

As far as Nintendo games go, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that it produces the finest 480p Wii and Gamecube output of any set Ive seen them running on-- the lines, colors, and brightness/contrast are out of this world.  I also have an RGB modded N64 and SNES Mini and it puts out an impeccable picture for those as well.  I just posted some N64 pictures tonight in another thread but they seem to have disappeared.  I will repost them, see thread here.


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Old 02-16-2014, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post

I did get a chance to look at a 43 inch model 4500 alongside a 43 inch X60 Panasonic at a Sears showroom and they both looked great, but I didnt get to try game consoles on them.  There was also a Panasonic 50S60 in the same showroom, and it looked very dim.  I had heard the S60 was "the" TV for gaming so I checked it out very closely.  I even grabbed the remote and tried jacking the brightness and contrast settings up, but I couldnt get it to look anywhere near as bright as the smaller 4500 and X60 right next to it.  It remained unattractively dim in comparison.

It's very difficult to judge panels on display without spending quite some time setting them up in the same picture modes. Lee Niekirk who is a ISF certified calibrator came up with these X60 results:
Quote:


This one-horse road ratio is the direct result of a dim peak brightness and a mediocre black level (for a Panasonic plasma). We tested a black level of 0.036 cd/m2 and a 20% APL brightness of 70.50 cd/m2 , both of which are poor.

Keep in mind that the S60's panel brightness was set to low. There is no such adjustment on the X60. Also, Lee emailed me that the S60's black levels are deeper then shown due to his light meters limitations, which have been updated since he wrote this review.


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Old 02-16-2014, 06:32 PM
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It's very difficult to judge panels on display without spending quite some time setting them up in the same picture modes. Lee Niekirk who is a ISF certified calibrator came up with these X60 results:
Keep in mind that the S60's panel brightness was set to low. There is no such adjustment on the X60. Also, Lee emailed me that the S60's black levels are deeper then shown due to his light meters limitations, which have been updated since he wrote this review.


Ian


Not sure what this chart is supposed to mean, the S60 is brighter than an X60?   I adjusted brightness and contrast as high as I could on the model I looked at, and it still looked dim sitting right across from two 43" Panny and Sammy 720p models.  Look, I'm sure the S60 is a great set, it has very good reviews, etc. and I agree it is difficult to judge on the showroom

floor without connecting your own devices (as I did on the Samsung I eventually bought), but it just didnt look that great when I saw it.  Maybe it was a defective set, maybe it was the feed that they were running on it, I dont know.  I'm impressed by the X60, so I'm sure the S60 is a great set.


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Old 02-16-2014, 10:02 PM
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Not sure what this chart is supposed to mean, the S60 is brighter than an X60?  

Yes, and the contrast ratio on the X60 doesn't come close to the S60. Don't get me wrong, for a basic 720p TV, the X60 isn't a bad set, especially when compared to many LCD's. wink.gif


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Old 02-18-2014, 02:48 PM
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Josh, just curious, but did you cross shop between the 43 inch model and 51 inch models when you bought your 51 inch F4500? Was there any difference in brightness? It's very peculiar to hear that someone is very happy with brightness and ABLs on saturation heavy Nintendo games on a plasma TV. Nintendo games were the most difficult materials to work with on my Panasonic S60. I know the F4500 is brighter than the S60, but how much brighter? That I don't know. Seems we can only use LCDs as a reference.


Update regarding the ABL on the Samsung  F4500.  Apparently it is indeed present-- I was watching some ice skating in the Olympics last night and noticed it when ever the scene panned from the ice to the stands-- when 1/3 of the screen or less was showing the white ice, the ice was noticably brighter/whiter than when ice covered more than 1/2 of the screen.  When the scene would change from one to the other you could actually see the screen dim or brighten on the fly.

 

It wasnt jarring though, and it only got a little annoying if I really focused in on trying to see it.  My previous statement about gaming still stands though-- I have yet to notice the ABL while gaming.


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Old 02-18-2014, 06:15 PM
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Update regarding the ABL on the Samsung  F4500.  Apparently it is indeed present-- I was watching some ice skating in the Olympics last night and noticed it when ever the scene panned from the ice to the stands-- when 1/3 of the screen or less was showing the white ice, the ice was noticably brighter/whiter than when ice covered more than 1/2 of the screen.  When the scene would change from one to the other you could actually see the screen dim or brighten on the fly.

It wasnt jarring though, and it only got a little annoying if I really focused in on trying to see it.  My previous statement about gaming still stands though-- I have yet to notice the ABL while gaming.

If you actually have to search for an ABL, I believe that's actually some serious brightness that little entry level TV packs! Pick brightness is easy, but maintaining it is much harder, so I give an applause. It also has blacks just as good as the F5300/F5500 so you really did get a good deal.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:14 PM
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kof the sochi games looks excellent to me . its life like realistic . your friend is used to torch mode , to me grass looks natural
to him they have to be neon green to his or her liking
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Wow! The "SOCHI" Winter games actually look good on a plasma? I just recommended someone to buy an E550 Samsung plasma and the first thing he said was "The Sochi games look crap."

Really curious about the brightness capability of the 51 inch F4500...

fierce gt i agree i was watching the hockey game too and for me it looks real , how a tv should be .

oh and a side note lcd are not meant to be tv they are meant to display static text or images .
i may have keen eyes but i can also notice more flaws with lcd as opposed to plasma.
cmon oled be more affordable

end of side note

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Olympics look good on every tv I have in the house. I really don't understand why anybody ever has a problem with bright images. they seem like they are the easiest to display. it's only when I watch dark movies that I can really tell the difference between plasma and lcd

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Old 07-18-2014, 11:19 PM
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I currently have a Panasonic 36" CRT HDTV (480p/1080i) from 2001 (CT-36HX41).
Love the colors accuracy, viewing angles, black levels and contrast.
Since the 42S60 1080p plasma is no more, I'm trying to decide on the Samsung PN43F4500 and LG 42PN4500. Please help is you can. Looking for good PQ, but want limited (or no buzz) since the current CRT has always buzzed on bright images. Thank you.

LG 42PN4500 vs Samsug PN43F4500
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:22 PM
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I currently have a Panasonic 36" CRT HDTV (480p/1080i) from 2001 (CT-36HX41).
Love the colors accuracy, viewing angles, black levels and contrast.
Since the 42S60 1080p plasma is no more, I'm trying to decide on the Samsung PN43F4500 and LG 42PN4500. Please help is you can. Looking for good PQ, but want limited (or no buzz) since the current CRT has always buzzed on bright images. Thank you.

LG 42PN4500 vs Samsug PN43F4500
Ahh... a Panasonic Tau perhaps? Those were some great sets from the heyday of CRTs, like my good old 36" Hitachi Ultravision Digital 1080i/480p set! You are right, many CRTs buzzed (but through the speakers, not the screen), often when displaying a full screen red or other bright color. You can rest easy, the buzz you get with plasma is not through the speakers, and is far less noisy than what you are talking about with your CRT.

Straight up, I wont pretend to know much about the LG, but I have the 51" version of the Sammy 4500, and let me tell you it puts out a drop dead gorgeous picture, whether in 480p, 720p, or super-sampled 1080p. Being a fellow CRT fan, you will appreciate this set, because it puts out a very CRT-like picture-- much moreso than the 1080p plasmas. For a 720p set, it cant possibly get much better, so go with the Sammy while you still can. Plus, you can get the 51" for just $399 right now, you simply cant beat that deal.

Dont be afraid of the 51" size for the 720p plasmas. I have two of them and they both look great, but the Samsung beats the Panasonic by a good margin, believe it. You hear all this talk about SDE (screen door effect) and stuff about the 720p plasmas, but dont buy into it. The pixel density of the 51" will be at least equal to, and most likely better, than your 36" Tau. If you are used to and like the look of your Panasonic 36" CRT, you will LOVE the picture of the PN51F4500. Im afraid the 43" will be a bit small for you, coming from a 36" 4:3 CRT. The 51" will give you about 2" more vertical real estate than what you have now and a lot more horizontal. The 43" will give you an inch or two less than what you have.

I actually have 2 51" 720 sets and 1 51" 1080p set and honestly, even though I got my PN51F5300 for just $495, for me personally the increased resolution isnt worth the extra $100. If all you are going to do is use it as a PC monitor, or play PS4/PC games on it, than maybe so. If you intend to watch a lot of broadcast HDTV and game from XBOX 360/PS3 downwards toward retro, I think the F4500 is actually worth MORE than the 5300.

The colors and screen uniformity will be superior to your CRT, and the blacks and viewing angles will be at least equal to it.

My recommendation to you without thinking twice is the Samsung PN51F4500. If 51" is just too big for you, go with the 43.
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Old 07-19-2014, 03:45 PM
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Ahh... a Panasonic Tau perhaps? Those were some great sets from the heyday of CRTs, like my good old 36" Hitachi Ultravision Digital 1080i/480p set! You are right, many CRTs buzzed (but through the speakers, not the screen), often when displaying a full screen red or other bright color. You can rest easy, the buzz you get with plasma is not through the speakers, and is far less noisy than what you are talking about with your CRT.

Straight up, I wont pretend to know much about the LG, but I have the 51" version of the Sammy 4500, and let me tell you it puts out a drop dead gorgeous picture, whether in 480p, 720p, or super-sampled 1080p. Being a fellow CRT fan, you will appreciate this set, because it puts out a very CRT-like picture-- much moreso than the 1080p plasmas. For a 720p set, it cant possibly get much better, so go with the Sammy while you still can. Plus, you can get the 51" for just $399 right now, you simply cant beat that deal.

Dont be afraid of the 51" size for the 720p plasmas. I have two of them and they both look great, but the Samsung beats the Panasonic by a good margin, believe it. You hear all this talk about SDE (screen door effect) and stuff about the 720p plasmas, but dont buy into it. The pixel density of the 51" will be at least equal to, and most likely better, than your 36" Tau. If you are used to and like the look of your Panasonic 36" CRT, you will LOVE the picture of the PN51F4500. Im afraid the 43" will be a bit small for you, coming from a 36" 4:3 CRT. The 51" will give you about 2" more vertical real estate than what you have now and a lot more horizontal. The 43" will give you an inch or two less than what you have.

I actually have 2 51" 720 sets and 1 51" 1080p set and honestly, even though I got my PN51F5300 for just $495, for me personally the increased resolution isnt worth the extra $100. If all you are going to do is use it as a PC monitor, or play PS4/PC games on it, than maybe so. If you intend to watch a lot of broadcast HDTV and game from XBOX 360/PS3 downwards toward retro, I think the F4500 is actually worth MORE than the 5300.

The colors and screen uniformity will be superior to your CRT, and the blacks and viewing angles will be at least equal to it.

My recommendation to you without thinking twice is the Samsung PN51F4500. If 51" is just too big for you, go with the 43.
Yes, mine is the Panasonic TAU CT-36HX41. For SD it upsamples from 480i to 480p, and for HD has two Component inputs for 1080i.
The reason I was looking at 42-43" units is because I'm limited to the opening size inside my entertainment cabinet. I measured for both the Samsung and LG. The Samsung will be a very tight fit, the LG being an inch less would fit. So the only way to know is to buy and make sure at home.
If I had a larger opening in the cabinet, then I wouldgo with a larger set, but I can't really afford to replace it with a new entertainment cabinet right now.
Even though my Panasonic TAU is working fine since I purchased it in 2001, I eventually want OLED. I have two 32" Toshiba LED/LCD in the bedrooms, and even though they are OK, I can't see myself using one in the living room (was thinking of the new Vizio M422 model).

As far as the buzz I get from my Panasonic, I've heard it since day 1. Even with no audio, sound off, I can hear it coming from the back. It sounds like a high voltage regulator or something like that. But only hear it on bright images, white, blues outside, etc. My concern is the buzz from plasmas, and fan noise. I'm not sure if these smaller plasma use fans.
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
Yes, mine is the Panasonic TAU CT-36HX41. For SD it upsamples from 480i to 480p, and for HD has two Component inputs for 1080i.
The reason I was looking at 42-43" units is because I'm limited to the opening size inside my entertainment cabinet. I measured for both the Samsung and LG. The Samsung will be a very tight fit, the LG being an inch less would fit. So the only way to know is to buy and make sure at home.
If I had a larger opening in the cabinet, then I wouldgo with a larger set, but I can't really afford to replace it with a new entertainment cabinet right now.
Even though my Panasonic TAU is working fine since I purchased it in 2001, I eventually want OLED. I have two 32" Toshiba LED/LCD in the bedrooms, and even though they are OK, I can't see myself using one in the living room (was thinking of the new Vizio M422 model).

As far as the buzz I get from my Panasonic, I've heard it since day 1. Even with no audio, sound off, I can hear it coming from the back. It sounds like a high voltage regulator or something like that. But only hear it on bright images, white, blues outside, etc. My concern is the buzz from plasmas, and fan noise. I'm not sure if these smaller plasma use fans.
Even the 51" 4500 does not have a fan, so Im sure the 43" doesnt. Buzz is extremely light and generally only heard if you put your ear to the back of the TV. It generally doesnt vary based on content, its pretty consistent. I think its a bit of a myth that only some plasmas buzz-- they all do, at least every one Ive checked. My Panny 51", and both Sammy 51s" all buzz at the rear of the panel, but again its a very, very quiet sound. You'll never hear it unless you like to watch TV with no audio in a pin-drop quiet environment.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post
Even the 51" 4500 does not have a fan, so Im sure the 43" doesnt. Buzz is extremely light and generally only heard if you put your ear to the back of the TV. It generally doesnt vary based on content, its pretty consistent. I think its a bit of a myth that only some plasmas buzz-- they all do, at least every one Ive checked. My Panny 51", and both Sammy 51s" all buzz at the rear of the panel, but again its a very, very quiet sound. You'll never hear it unless you like to watch TV with no audio in a pin-drop quiet environment.
Thanks, that's good to hear.
Still a bit of a let down with no WiFi apps and only 2 HDMI, but 75% of viewing is cable (SD and HD channels) and 25% BluRay.
Would you suggest it would be best to set the Comcast Motorola Cable Box DCX3400M and BluRay Oppo BDP-95 to output at 720p when fed to the Samsung, or output at 1080p and have the TV down convert to 720p?

Best Buy site is show $299 for 43F4500, $379 51F4500, and $549 for the 1080p 51F5300.
I'd get the 51F5300, but again it's too big for the entertainment cabinet.
When I called BrandsMart the 43" was $280-ish. But the extended warranties from with store is $120 for 5 year. I looked on the SquareTrade site and they only offer up to a 4 year for $55, but Amazon shows a 5 year SquareTrade for $39. I'm just not sure if you buy the Samsung in a local store, then buy the 5 year Square Trade warranty from Amazon (or if it's only for TVs purchased from Amazon). But weird that the actually web site for Square Trade doesn't show 5 year.
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
Thanks, that's good to hear.
Still a bit of a let down with no WiFi apps and only 2 HDMI, but 75% of viewing is cable (SD and HD channels) and 25% BluRay.
Would you suggest it would be best to set the Comcast Motorola Cable Box DCX3400M and BluRay Oppo BDP-95 to output at 720p when fed to the Samsung, or output at 1080p and have the TV down convert to 720p?

Best Buy site is show $299 for 43F4500, $379 51F4500, and $549 for the 1080p 51F5300.
I'd get the 51F5300, but again it's too big for the entertainment cabinet.
When I called BrandsMart the 43" was $280-ish. But the extended warranties from with store is $120 for 5 year. I looked on the SquareTrade site and they only offer up to a 4 year for $55, but Amazon shows a 5 year SquareTrade for $39. I'm just not sure if you buy the Samsung in a local store, then buy the 5 year Square Trade warranty from Amazon (or if it's only for TVs purchased from Amazon). But weird that the actually web site for Square Trade doesn't show 5 year.
I would experiment and see which you rather. Theoretically, setting the player to 1080p and letting the TV super-sample should give the best quality for Blu Ray, but as I havent tried it yet I cant say for certain.
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:37 PM
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I would experiment and see which you rather. Theoretically, setting the player to 1080p and letting the TV super-sample should give the best quality for Blu Ray, but as I havent tried it yet I cant say for certain.
OK, trying it either way is no big deal. Just was curious if anyone thought it was better to output at 720p from the cable box/bluray, or output at 1080p and have the TV resampling to 720p.

But for BD movies, can the 43F4500 accept 24Hz (frame rate)? I've read in the past that some plasmas had issues and would need 30 or 60.

I've heard there's a 10% off movers coupon that you can get at the post office, but it has some restrictions. Does anyone know if that would work with buying the PN43F4500? It would lower it about $30 if it did work.

The extended warrantie from the store is $120 for 5 year. I looked on the SquareTrade site and they only offer up to a 4 year for $55, but Amazon shows a 5 year SquareTrade for $39. I'm just not sure if you buy the Samsung in a local store, then buy the 5 year Square Trade warranty from Amazon (or if it's only for TVs purchased from Amazon). But weird that the actually web site for Square Trade doesn't show 5 year.
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Old 07-20-2014, 02:23 PM
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^ A lot of good advice above from Josh128.

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Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
OK, trying it either way is no big deal. Just was curious if anyone thought it was better to output at 720p from the cable box/bluray, or output at 1080p and have the TV resampling to 720p.
The F4500 is going to do some scaling/resampling regardless of what signal you send it, because it's native 1024x768 resolution is not a precise match to either 720p or 1080p. My guess is that the Blu-rays would look best at 1080p, like Josh said, since that's the native rez of most Blu-ray content. The cable box is harder to guess on. You could set it to output native signal rez, 720p or 1080i/p, and see which looks best. It just depends on the type of content you watch, and which device does a better job deinterlacing and scaling to your eyes.

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But for BD movies, can the 43F4500 accept 24Hz (frame rate)?
According to the manual, it supports Cinema Smooth, which only works with 24Hz inputs. So my guess is it does. That's another thing you'd probably want to experiment with though. Some prefer to leave everything at 60Hz for various reasons.

I disagree a little with Josh re the SDE on the F4500 series btw. SDE, dithering and color contouring* are all more pronounced to my eyes on the F4500 than on the 51F5300. It's sort of a moot point though, since you don't have space for a 51" TV, and will probably be watching a lot of SD and 720p. My main concern with the 43F4500 would be poor ventilation in such a tight space. (Maybe Josh could comment on that as well, since he's owned an F4500 for awhile.)

My 34" Sony 1080i CRT paid a visit to the CRT recycling center yesterday btw, and decided to stay there. Gonna miss all those nice dither-free colors, deep blacks and lagging Sony phosphors. I'm not exactly "CRT-free" though, since I still own 2 CRT monitors (one B&W), and a 24" SD CRT which still has a very good picture.

The Panasonic CRTs had a really nice picture. So I'd recommend keeping the TAU, until you're sure you've found a suitable replacement. I often wish I'd waited a bit and picked up one of the Panny 30" HD models, instead of the Sony 34XBR800. Water under the bridge though.

(*It's probably also worth noting that most decent 40-42" 1080p LCDs/LEDs would have none of these issues,... though they would have worse angle of view, motion and other PQ weaknesses compared to the plasma TVs. And a 1080p display would also be less forgiving to the SD content.)

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Old 07-20-2014, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
OK, trying it either way is no big deal. Just was curious if anyone thought it was better to output at 720p from the cable box/bluray, or output at 1080p and have the TV resampling to 720p.
But that TV is not a 720p TV, it's native resolution is actually 768p so whether you set your cable box to output 1080i or 720p the TV will scale the signal to 768p anyway. It's been my experience on a number of 768p Plasmas and LCDs that setting the Cable Box/Sat Receiver/Tivo to 1080i fixed makes the picture noticeably more crisp and detailed than when using the 720p setting on both 1080i channels and 720p channels (i've actually tested both back to back). Most others here have seen the same thing.

If you can get basic cable straight from the wall, you can test how the 1080i Fixed setting affects 720p channels by tuning the TV's internal tuner to a 720p channel (like ABC and FOX) then switching back and forth with the same channel on your cable box via HDMI.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
The extended warrantie from the store is $120 for 5 year. I looked on the SquareTrade site and they only offer up to a 4 year for $55, but Amazon shows a 5 year SquareTrade for $39. I'm just not sure if you buy the Samsung in a local store, then buy the 5 year Square Trade warranty from Amazon (or if it's only for TVs purchased from Amazon). But weird that the actually web site for Square Trade doesn't show 5 year.
The Square Trade warranty is pretty good - i bought mine from Costco (5yrs/$99 IIRC) even though i bought my 55ST60 at Amazon, and if i'm not mistaken the one you buy at Amazon is allowed on TVs bought elsewhere.


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Old 07-20-2014, 05:42 PM
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I actually have 2 51" 720 sets and 1 51" 1080p set and honestly, even though I got my PN51F5300 for just $495, for me personally the increased resolution isnt worth the extra $100.
$120 now, for you. And $170 for most others. As noted above, the 51F4500 just dropped another $20 at BB. (Time for some new 51F4500 users to get a price adjustment.)

Maybe the 43F4500 and 51F5300 will also follow suit.

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Old 07-20-2014, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
But that TV is not a 720p TV, it's native resolution is actually 768p so whether you set your cable box to output 1080i or 720p the TV will scale the signal to 768p anyway.
All the Sammy plasmas appear to use subpixel addressing as well (which is fairly typical for flat panels TVs), and there doesn't seem to be a way of disabling it. So the 1080p 51F5300 model will also perform a small amount of resampling on 1080p content at the subpixel level, even in Screen Fit mode.

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Old 07-20-2014, 07:35 PM
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Some interesting topics.

Re: Randy Walters about the 1080i setting-- its curious you bring that up because when watching straight OTA HD from my outdoor antenna feed, I do indeed find that the 1080i broadcast channels look better. Even more curious though is that I use a DTV Pal OTA DVR outputting through HDMI to the F4500, and it lets you select an output of 720p/1080i/480p or 480i, and it actually looks best when set to 720p, despite the 1080i channels still looking the best! Seems counter-intuitive, but when you set the DTVPal to 1080i, everything looks very low res on the set, even the 1080i channels. When you set the DTVPal to 720p, everything is extremely crisp, and you can actually see the interlace flickering on the 1080i channels. So I guess it just depends on the device or player.

As for the heat in a small space issue, I have to say that the 51" F4500 puts out noticably less heat than the F5300-- the back of the set gets just a little warm, while the back of the 5300 gets a bit hot, especially on the rear top left when facing the screen. Again, logically I would figure the 43" is even cooler than the already cool 51", so I really dont think ventilation would cause much of an issue.
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