New Display Dilemma - F8500 or VT60 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I think the question would be more to what has changed on the software since it was released. Seems like the brightness levels are no longer becoming a factor anymore either. Everything that has made the F8500 so great seems to be diminishing. Kind of has me scratching my head actually.

Samsung has a long, distinguised history of screwing things up with their firmware releases, unfortunately.
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post #182 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

I seriously doubt there was any kind of conspiracy. Too many reviewers out there hit the same numbers.

I never said that but the core performance has obviosly been changed by firmware updates since initial release, and the black float is obviously still there

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post #183 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

The F8500 still has a great screen filter, so in rooms with ambient light the blacks look a lot better than they measure.

Good point Chad

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post #184 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

Samsung has a long, distinguised history of screwing things up with their firmware releases, unfortunately.

And part of this issue is most likely because they are releasing too many firmware updates and they are not doing sufficient quality assurance and regression testing to make sure everything else with the display is functioning properly or optimally. As someone who works in software development, I can tell you they are just asking for problems with what they are doing and to make matters even worse they don't even seem to be documenting anything properly as the release notes indicate. It's a very poor overall process if it can even be called that.

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post #185 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 10:50 AM
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Samsung has never demonstrated that they (or other Korean companies) will release products that have been "modified" to boost test results. It does make you wonder if they released the 8500 knowing that they would have to come back later with fixes that raised the black levels. The Korean's have a long history of poor corporate ethics, I believe Hyundai announced today that it had overstated its mileage figures after doing it along with Kia in 2012. Samsung does a great job innovating by using others designs and tech in their products. Not saying it was a conspiracy, but with the track record you have to wonder.

As much as I would like to add a plasma in another room this year - I may refrain given what seems to be evolving with the 8500. Maybe the jet engine fans on the VT/ZT are a blessing - cooler panels longer panel life smile.gif
Only time will tell.

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post #186 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 10:56 AM
 
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I was lambasted by certain owners for suggesting Samsung is forcing its customers to beta test software. The evidence that is beginning to corroborate here is a pox on all of them.
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post #187 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

And part of this issue is most likely because they are releasing too many firmware updates and they are not doing sufficient quality assurance and regression testing to make sure everything else with the display is functioning properly or optimally. As someone who works in software development, I can tell you they are just asking for problems with what they are doing and to make matters even worse they don't even seem to be documenting anything properly as the release notes indicate. It's a very poor overall process if it can even be called that.

Too bad Panasonic didn't apply the "plunger fix" eek.gif before allowing their PDPs to leave the assembly line.

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post #188 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 11:11 AM
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Man I miss Pioneer being in the game.
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post #189 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 11:20 AM
 
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They'd have to compromise just like the rest in order to stay competitive, especially at these prices.
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post #190 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 11:34 AM
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But at least they learned how to do the little things right, which is apparently more than we can say for their soon-to-be-extinct successors.
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post #191 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

Too bad Panasonic didn't apply the "plunger fix" eek.gif before allowing their PDPs to leave the assembly line.

I think even F8500 owners are laughing at your poor attempt to troll a Panasonic after we are getting true calibrated results for the F8500 from a pro calibrator.

Maybe if you if focused your time with Samsung and stopped worrying about Panasonic you guys can get your black levels and brightness levels back to where this panel was released and what used to justify it's high price tag.

I don't know how mentioning a loud fan that is fixed for free from Panasonic is going to improve your panel any. Maybe start worrying about your numbers and not ours? Our panel tests exactly where it should so we can continue laughing at your poor sorry posts.

I think most of us don't even hate the F8500. It is people like you who make us want to hate the F8500.
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post #192 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 11:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

But at least they learned how to do the little things right, which is apparently more than we can say for their soon-to-be-extinct successors.
Perhaps...but the red tint development that happens to a sizable portion of panels shows that they missed the mark themselves, and this was before the race to become paper thin and power-sipping had reached the fever pace that it has today.
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post #193 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 11:40 AM
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Eric, this has not been established as a problem with all new F8500s, correct? I was under the impression Chad has seen this a couple times in the past year and that firmware updates MIGHT be causing this. Am I misunderstanding?
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post #194 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post

Eric, this has not been established as a problem with all new F8500s, correct? I was under the impression Chad has seen this a couple times in the past year and that firmware updates MIGHT be causing this. Am I misunderstanding?
From what it sounds like this is what Chad has been seeing on the F8500 with the newest software and possible even older versions as well. It is obviously testing different from when it was first released. It would be great if the review sites were made aware of this and if they all retested and re-reviewed the F8500 with the newest software. That would really confirm if this is true on a larger scale with different pro reviewers. It would also put pressure on Samsung if something like this went public and maybe they would actually address the issue if it is indeed true.

Even so, the F8500 is a great panel and I don't think this would stop me from buying one, especially at the current sale price you can get one right now.
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post #195 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

From what it sounds like this is what Chad has been seeing on the F8500 with the newest software and possible even older versions as well. It is obviously testing different from when it was first released. It would be great if the review sites were made aware of this and if they all retested and re-reviewed the F8500 with the newest software. That would really confirm if this is true on a larger scale with different pro reviewers. It would also put pressure on Samsung if something like this went public and maybe they would actually address the issue if it is indeed true.

Even so, the F8500 is a great panel and I don't think this would stop me from buying one, especially at the current sale price you can get one right now.

I believe CNet may be aware of the issue. So if they re-test, find problems and publish the results, hopefully Samsung will feel the heat and solve the problem.

It's also possible that they will find no problems at all.
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post #196 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

Too bad Panasonic didn't apply the "plunger fix" eek.gif before allowing their PDPs to leave the assembly line.

Hmmm I wouldnt know since my fans are virtually silent, I could drag up the image of the F8500 owner with a large fan strapped to the back of his set but what would be the point ? Regardless of the latest readings I don't think anyone is saying the F8500 isnt a great set. I am certainly not but it does validate at least for me personally why I steered away for others with different priorties it is probably a non issue.

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post #197 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

Too bad Panasonic didn't apply the "plunger fix" eek.gif before allowing their PDPs to leave the assembly line.


So you really want to go there with Samsung products in general?

Panasonic has a better reputation than Samsung in regards to quality and customer service.

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post #198 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

From what it sounds like this is what Chad has been seeing on the F8500 with the newest software and possible even older versions as well. It is obviously testing different from when it was first released. It would be great if the review sites were made aware of this and if they all retested and re-reviewed the F8500 with the newest software. That would really confirm if this is true on a larger scale with different pro reviewers. It would also put pressure on Samsung if something like this went public and maybe they would actually address the issue if it is indeed true.

Even so, the F8500 is a great panel and I don't think this would stop me from buying one, especially at the current sale price you can get one right now.

The problem with the F8500 is, it really doesn't meet videophile standards in this given state. Most people buying them won't see the difference though.

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post #199 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 12:57 PM
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So you really want to go there with Samsung products in general?

Panasonic has a better reputation than Samsung in regards to quality and customer service.
So we all know, except for 9179mhb that Panasonic will come to your home to fix your fan if it is loud. Not sure what more you can ask for then that.

So I decided to call Samsung and ask them if they have a fix for bad clack levels and if they can schedule a tech to come to my home. They said they do have a fix and it does not even require sending a tech out!

Since I do not have an F8500 (of course I did not tell them that) I decided to duplicate the Samsung F8500 black level fix on my bedroom TV. They said after this fix that Panasonic can now suck it!

WOW, I think Samsung is onto something, even my bedroom TV now has great blacks!

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post #200 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 01:02 PM
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It is people like you who make us want to hate the F8500.

But, but, but... I also own a Panasonic 50PX50U & a Pioneer PRO-150FD.

Do you "love" me now?
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post #201 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 01:03 PM
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^
Eric - As clever as your response is why take the bait? We are all better than plunger person regardless of the brand(s) we own.

P.S. With the light on the display I don't think the filter is very good since the screen looks gray and I see some reflections tongue.gif

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post #202 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

^
Eric - As clever as your response is why take the bait? We are all better than plunger person regardless of the brand(s) we own.

P.S. With the light on the display I don't think the filter is very good since the screen looks gray and I see some reflections tongue.gif
Yeah, but in the dark it is amazing!

It was a joke. We all know the truth around these parts of the woods. It is AVS, not slick deals or a Yahoo forum. lol
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post #203 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 01:13 PM
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Yes, 60 Hz. The day modes were calibrated to a modified power curve of 2.22 that boosts shadow detail in ambient light conditions, and the night modes were done with a BT1886 gamma.

Let me know what you think of my new report style! smile.gif

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64F8500.zip 1456k .zip file


Hi Chad,

Thanks for putting this together. It was always going to come down to ZT or VT for me.

I did look at a ZT and F8500 calibrated side by side before buying and your findings is in line with what I saw.

To me, ZT/VT = cinematic looking while F8500 looked artificial / video like. Not to mention the ZT destroyed the F8500 in black level.

Chad, please tell me you'll be able to come to the SF Bay Area this year, I have a ZT at 150hrs and counting, and would love for you to calibrate it with your high panel brightness magic!
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post #204 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 01:20 PM
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It's OK for the ZT60 fan boys to trash the F8500 but heaven forbid we respond in kind.

To be "totally honest" when I was contemplating buying a new PDP during the latter part of 2013 I waffled back and forth between:

buying a refrigerator sounding ZT60 or a buzzing F8500?

By the time I was ready to pull that proverbial trigger the 65ZT60 wasn't available, which made the decision pretty easy at that point.

The "young pups" are taking this TV nonsense way too seriously. It's just a TV.

You have to admit the idea of using duct tape, a plunger or cutting holes in the rear enclosure of a new PDP is pretty outrageous.
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post #205 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 01:28 PM
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We all know the truth around these parts of the woods. It is AVS, not slick deals or a Yahoo forum. lol

Eric, this is what an F8500 PDP challenged individual does for a living:



read this book then get back to me. wink.gif
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post #206 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 01:28 PM
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It's OK for the ZT60 fan boys to trash the F8500 but heaven forbid we respond in kind.

To be "totally honest" when I was contemplating buying a new PDP during the latter part of 2013 I waffled back and forth between:

buying a refrigerator sounding ZT60 or a buzzing F8500?

By the time I was ready to pull that proverbial trigger the 65ZT60 wasn't available, which made the decision pretty easy at that point.

The "young pups" are taking this TV nonsense way too seriously. It's just a TV.

You have to admit the idea of using duct tape, a plunger or cutting holes in the rear enclosure of a new PDP is pretty outrageous.
No one was trashing the F8500, we were simply responding to calibrated numbers posted about the F8500. If you should be mad at anyone, it should be Samsung. Taking little stabs at fixable issues on a ZT60 is not going to fix the F8500 and give it the levels that TV once saw.

With these new black levels and brightness levels, is it even fair to declare this TV the people's choice from the shootout? Seems like they were rating a totally different TV then what we are currently seeing today. I guess they need to add some fine print mentioning results only relevant to Samsungs initial software and should not be considered in your current decision making.
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post #207 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 01:31 PM
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Eric, this is what an F8500 PDP challenged individual does for a living:



read this book then get back to me. wink.gif
LOL, so much for it only being a TV. Now we are going to have a pissing match of who does what for living. Your to much dude and we are getting waaaaaaaaaay off topic.
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post #208 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 01:43 PM
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LOL, so much for it only being a TV. Now we are going to have a pissing match of who does what for living. Your to much dude and we are getting waaaaaaaaaay off topic.

Am I "to much," or two much or too much, which is it?

Did you mean to say your? or you're?

Do I really want to do this... just got the foam kit put in my TV

repair on a brand new $7000 TV? eek.gif
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post #209 of 274 Old 03-17-2014, 01:48 PM
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Am I "to much," or two much or too much, which is it?

Did you mean to say your? or you're?

Do I really want to do this... just got the foam kit put in my TV

repair on a brand new $7000 TV? eek.gif
OK, you got the last stab and it hurt so bad. Now for the sake of this thread, can we please move on? Thank you.

We all understand that Panasonic has a fix for the fans and if we didn't know that already you said it so many times with so many links that everyone here now knows it.

If you want to have a spelling bee, please PM me.
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$7200 actually wink.gif
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