4K Plasma - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
somelogin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
I guess with Panasonic gone, there is no chance of a manufacturer caring enough to make a UHD plasma? Sucks that the only choices for 4k this year will be either edge lit LED, expensive OLED, or way too big sized (for me) direct led. Obviously, I feel the elite plasmas were overrated, since so many have major black level issues, and then the Pannys had horrible flicker and IR issues. Too bad Samsung didn't decide to make one great 4k plasma and then call it quits. I know most will feel ultra HD is a waste for them, but my vision sucks, so for me it may actually solve a lot of my issues, but edge lit LED sets have so many other issues.
somelogin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 04:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
eric3316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,769
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Liked: 641
There is just so much wrong in this post. lol
mailiang and craigyboy like this.
eric3316 is online now  
post #3 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
somelogin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Not going to answer? Also, there is nothing wrong in it.
somelogin is offline  
post #4 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 01:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mailiang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springsteen Country
Posts: 6,736
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 182 Post(s)
Liked: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Not going to answer? Also, there is nothing wrong in it.


Your thread makes little sense, so for some, it may not be worth addressing. That being said, let me just say that there is no such thing as a perfect TV. They all have their anomalies. BTW, my Panasonic plasma has excellent blacks, doesn't have any real flicker or IR issues and I certainly wouldn't trade it for an LCD. wink.gif


Ian
gus738 likes this.

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

mailiang is offline  
post #5 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
somelogin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
It makes no sense to ask if a manufacturer has been rumored to be making a 4K plasma? Seems pretty simple of a question to me.
somelogin is offline  
post #6 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 02:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mailiang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springsteen Country
Posts: 6,736
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 182 Post(s)
Liked: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

It makes no sense to ask if a manufacturer has been rumored to be making a 4K plasma? Seems pretty simple of a question to me.

If you do your home work you will find that plasma is being phased out for LCD's. Unfortunately, their market share has shrunk to a mere 5%. It makes absolutely no sense for manufacturers to invest in a dying technology. This topic has been discussed extensively on several threads in this forum.


Ian
vinnie97 and gus738 like this.

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

mailiang is offline  
post #7 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
somelogin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
If people "did their research" about every thread in the forum could be deleted.... I asked a simple question. lso, if you read the post, I already said Panasonic was exiting............
somelogin is offline  
post #8 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 03:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mailiang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springsteen Country
Posts: 6,736
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 182 Post(s)
Liked: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

If people "did their research" about every thread in the forum could be deleted.... I asked a simple question. lso, if you read the post, I already said Panasonic was exiting............


You wanted an answer, you got a answer. I'm sorry it wasn't what you wanted to hear. Time to move on. wink.gif


Ian
AKA likes this.

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

mailiang is offline  
post #9 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 04:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eric3316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,769
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Liked: 641
4K is going to be hard for people with perfect vision to notice the difference from 1080p at normal viewing distances. If your eye site is not good, 4K won't help a thing because you want be able to see the little nuances in the picture that 4K brings.

As for OLED, do they even make a 4K OLED?

Also, no idea what flicker you are you taking about with Panasonic's and IR has not been an issue on the VT60.

Sounds like you should just buy an F8500. Not sure why you would wait for something else.
gus738 likes this.
eric3316 is online now  
post #10 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 04:26 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
Some folks can detect the flicker on plasma inherent to its PWM tech. I have seen it on very rare occasions on the 2013 Panasonic product lineup (ZT), but the frequency is so high that it's very subtle and only noticeable on particularly solidly bright backgrounds (and only occasionally at that). Some are more susceptible to this and actually get a headache from the phenomenon. I am thankfully not one of those people (I suspect its a tiny minority of the human population).

There is no way he'll be happy with an 8500. We're talking about someone who finds the Kuro to not be black enough, so you can only imagine how the F8500 will bug him. smile.gif This is selfmade's grumpier cousin we're talking about here (not literally, but there is a similar level of discord running through all of their posts tongue.gif).
craigyboy and eric3316 like this.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #11 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 04:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
blazar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 243
4k picture will be able to improve artifacts potentially. I can easily tell the clarity of 4k from 2k content. With 4k cameras there is potential for great picture improvement.

Besides all that i like to sit closer to my big screen to have the picture envelope my eyesight and peripheral vision. 3d in particular looks better when the screen occupies most of your field of vision. When you sit closer you can defintely tell an image is 4k vs 2k

Blazar!
blazar is offline  
post #12 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 04:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Phrehdd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 478
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 98
I managed to see a demo of a 4k TV and at normal distances, there is a bit of difference between it's video and that of 1080 (plasma or LCD) and that is the subtleties of shadows and textures. It isn't all about edge adjacency effect.

As for 4K plasma, hmmmm seems that would be riddled with issues including being costly to make and also power consumption. I thoroughly enjoyed my Kuro 5010 and my present 65VT50 plasma. I'll be keeping the Panasonic VT50 as long as I can until a meaningful* new model is out which probably will be a "4K" TV in about 3 years.
Phrehdd is offline  
post #13 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 05:02 PM
Senior Member
 
9179mhb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrehdd View Post

I thoroughly enjoyed my Kuro 5010 and my present 65VT50 plasma. I'll be keeping the Panasonic VT50 as long as I can until a meaningful* new model is out which probably will be a "4K" TV in about 3 years.

Will there ever exist a 4K OLED BIG screen TV that is priced for a monetary sum that the masses can afford?

LG's Giant Curved 4K OLED TVs Will Explode Your Mind
9179mhb is online now  
post #14 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
somelogin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
The problem is they keep thinking people ONLY want huge screens, so they don't put their best tech in anything under 55 inches so far.

Also, once again, MY elites have a bad black level. Instead of saying I am unhappy with it, you could add in I said I was blown away by the ST50 black level, which proves mine have a worse level than that.

I was also blown away by a Samsung D7000 plasma, but it really REALLY bothered my eyes. I am even thinking that may have damaged them. But I may try an 8500 anyway.

And 4K will help me because it's going to improve details and I can see them good enough to where it's a big difference. For one thing the elite looks really faded and washed out and 4K would make a more crisp look to it.
somelogin is offline  
post #15 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 05:52 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
You're right, I didn't acknowledge that you could have been extremely unlucky two times in a row. I just have trouble wrapping my head around it. They both had pretty high hours on them IIRC so maybe that's a fate that faces more than I realize. I'm just skeptical that Pioneer screwed the pooch that badly.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #16 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 05:55 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,394
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 424
Color gamut and fewer artifacts will be a big plus with 4K on any display.

As far as the resolution differences, it's going to take a front projection or 80"+ panel to really get something out it there.

DavidHir is online now  
post #17 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 06:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eric3316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,769
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Liked: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Some folks can detect the flicker on plasma inherent to its PWM tech. I have seen it on very rare occasions on the 2013 Panasonic product lineup (ZT), but the frequency is so high that it's very subtle and only noticeable on particularly solidly bright backgrounds (and only occasionally at that). Some are more susceptible to this and actually get a headache from the phenomenon. I am thankfully not one of those people (I suspect its a tiny minority of the human population).

There is no way he'll be happy with an 8500. We're talking about someone who finds the Kuro to not be black enough, so you can only imagine how the F8500 will bug him. smile.gif This is selfmade's grumpier cousin we're talking about here (not literally, but there is a similar level of discord running through all of their posts tongue.gif).
Considering he says he would be okay with a Samsung 4K plasma, it sounds more like he is Panny bashing then anything else. Why would he not see flicker in the Samsung? Also, if he is okay with an F8500 with 4K then he must be okay with not the best blacks out there.

Also, no one addressed that he said his eyesight is bad so is there any advantage in viewing 4K as opposed to a 1080p blu-ray. Besides, when we say 4K, the only thing we are going to get is compressed 4K streaming from somewhere so it won't even be true 4K so it will still look like crap anyway and no better then a non compressed 1080p blu-ray.
gus738 likes this.
eric3316 is online now  
post #18 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 06:28 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
That's true concerning 4K (garbage in, garbage out), unless you want to fork over big money for the exclusive Sony 4K box (and even then, if you have a bandwidth cap, you'll be surpassing it pretty quickly). The side effects alongside the new standard will be nice (again, assuming anything utilizes the increased color space and bit depth). As of now, there is no Blu-ray 4K standard nor launch date! Some are swearing by the benefits that upscaling 1080p --> 4K will provide. I am withholding judgement until I witness it, but I was never satisfied with upscaled 480p content after being spoiled by native1080p.
gus738 likes this.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #19 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 06:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
blazar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Considering he says he would be okay with a Samsung 4K plasma, it sounds more like he is Panny bashing then anything else. Why would he not see flicker in the Samsung? Also, if he is okay with an F8500 with 4K then he must be okay with not the best blacks out there.

Also, no one addressed that he said his eyesight is bad so is there any advantage in viewing 4K as opposed to a 1080p blu-ray. Besides, when we say 4K, the only thing we are going to get is compressed 4K streaming from somewhere so it won't even be true 4K so it will still look like crap anyway and no better then a non compressed 1080p blu-ray.

Well ... I think we are actually hoping for 4k content. 4k content may be 10 years away until consistently available on discs but it is likely to arrive. Hopefully it arrives on 8k compatible format so the format itself is easily scalable. 8k with dolby digital atmos array that conforms to your particular speakers and speaker posiitons in your home.... Pretty cool!

8k is the true theoretical limit of human vision and most viewing distances, not 4k anyway.

Blazar!
blazar is offline  
post #20 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 07:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Weboh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 20

I think there is a lot of 4K UHD content which is not much better than perfect 1080p content.

Weboh is offline  
post #21 of 128 Old 02-10-2014, 08:42 PM
"Don't PM Me Bro"
 
RandyWalters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: El Segundo, Calif
Posts: 17,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weboh View Post

I think there is a lot of 4K UHD content which is not much better than perfect 1080p content.

There's a lot of 4K UHD content?? Where?

Even at 10+ feet away, the Sony 4K LCD at Video Audio Center displaying their 4K Demo loop looked WAY better than when they switched to 1080p Blu-Ray content.
Straybeat likes this.

Randy
TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TH-42PX50U, HP LC2600N, TiVo Series3, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR333, URC R40 Remote.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Gallery -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
RandyWalters is offline  
post #22 of 128 Old 02-11-2014, 12:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Playdrv4me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,198
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 84
I suppose if LG really wanted to do something wacky (and that's the Korean's calling card these days, it seems... curves, giant screens, curved phones you can supposedly "sit on" without breaking) and suddenly surprise everyone, they could move forward into 4K plasma production. But of course, it would likely be sub-par in quality with "making it 4k" probably being the only real target, and leaving the PQ right where it is no with the plasmas they already have. I was going to say Samsung might surprise us with this also, but at this rate it's still up in the air whether 2015 will see any plasmas from them at all.

And lol at kuros with poor black levels, two in a row at that. Then again at 10k hours or whatever they are I guess that can potentially happen.
Playdrv4me is offline  
post #23 of 128 Old 02-11-2014, 01:16 AM
KOF
Advanced Member
 
KOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 772
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post

I suppose if LG really wanted to do something wacky (and that's the Korean's calling card these days, it seems... curves, giant screens, curved phones you can supposedly "sit on" without breaking) and suddenly surprise everyone, they could move forward into 4K plasma production. But of course, it would likely be sub-par in quality with "making it 4k" probably being the only real target, and leaving the PQ right where it is no with the plasmas they already have. I was going to say Samsung might surprise us with this also, but at this rate it's still up in the air whether 2015 will see any plasmas from them at all.

And lol at kuros with poor black levels, two in a row at that. Then again at 10k hours or whatever they are I guess that can potentially happen.

How are they going to reduce power consumption though? I know Dr. Larry Weber had been developing a new technique to reduce power consuption by 20 times but I feel it's already too late now.
KOF is online now  
post #24 of 128 Old 02-11-2014, 02:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Playdrv4me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,198
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

How are they going to reduce power consumption though? I know Dr. Larry Weber had been developing a new technique to reduce power consuption by 20 times but I feel it's already too late now.

It's probably just a wild fantasy. I don't really think LG will do it, but if anyone could toss it out there it wouldn't surprise me is all. Power consumption is certainly a consideration.
Playdrv4me is offline  
post #25 of 128 Old 02-11-2014, 07:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Weboh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weboh View Post

I think there is a lot of 4K UHD content which is not much better than perfect 1080p content.

There's a lot of 4K UHD content?? Where?

Even at 10+ feet away, the Sony 4K LCD at Video Audio Center displaying their 4K Demo loop looked WAY better than when they switched to 1080p Blu-Ray content.


I was thinking DLP movie content.

Weboh is offline  
post #26 of 128 Old 02-11-2014, 07:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bull3964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weboh View Post


I was thinking DLP movie content.

Well, that's the rub. Even a lot of theater content shown on 4k projectors is simply upscaled.

4k end to end workflows are starting to get more common, but even today the vast majority of the stuff has the DI in 2k even if it was filmed in 4k.

That's why you always need to take UHD demos with a truckload of salt. The content is hand picked to not only show of the strengths of the resolution, but the exact TV model in question. Replicating the results with real world content is going to be much more spotty.
gus738 and Weboh like this.
bull3964 is offline  
post #27 of 128 Old 02-11-2014, 08:00 AM
Senior Member
 
Weboh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weboh View Post


I was thinking DLP movie content.

Well, that's the rub. Even a lot of theater content shown on 4k projectors is simply upscaled.

4k end to end workflows are starting to get more common, but even today the vast majority of the stuff has the DI in 2k even if it was filmed in 4k.

That's why you always need to take UHD demos with a truckload of salt. The content is hand picked to not only show of the strengths of the resolution, but the exact TV model in question. Replicating the results with real world content is going to be much more spotty.

Yep!

Weboh is offline  
post #28 of 128 Old 02-11-2014, 08:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Weboh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

What Killed Panasonic Plasma TV? 4K Ultra HD (Or Lack Thereof)

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-plasma-201311133417.htm


"A Panasonic USA senior employee, who posts exclusively on the ************** forum under the username “avjunkie”, has revealed that the significant amount of resources required to develop a consumer-grade 4K plasma TV was the final nail in the coffin for the company’s PDP business:
The main reason we have to move on is technology hit a roadblock. We simply cannot make a 4k plasma in a reasonable manner for retail without significant investment…
Plasma Cell Structure
To understand why it’s so difficult – if not impossible – to build a realistically-sized plasma TV (say, 55 or 65 inches) for the average home, let us first look at the inner workings of a plasma screen. Each PDP is made up of millions of plasma cells held between a front and a rear glass plate. The cells contain a mixture of 10% xenon and another chemically stable gas such as neon, which is maintained at around half atmospheric pressure......"


Panasonic could have called Sony's bluff. Interestingly, they choose not to do so.

Weboh is offline  
post #29 of 128 Old 02-11-2014, 08:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
adone36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post

It's probably just a wild fantasy. I don't really think LG will do it, but if anyone could toss it out there it wouldn't surprise me is all. Power consumption is certainly a consideration.

Yeah, a tv using $40 of electricity a year compared to $28 keep s me up at night.

Tony
adone36 is offline  
post #30 of 128 Old 02-11-2014, 09:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bull3964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

Yeah, a tv using $40 of electricity a year compared to $28 keep s me up at night.

It doesn't really matter what you are willing to bear in power consumption. It makes the TV fall outside of power consumption regulations and therefore can't be sold.
bull3964 is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off