Need advice on tv - Keep F8500 or get VT60 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 48 Old 02-11-2014, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
mark_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Just looking for some advice on which tv I should get or keep. I currently have a 60" F8500 but have an opportunity to sell it and get a brand new 60" VT60. What are the pros and cons of each? What should I do? I wouldn't mind the better black levels, but do like the extra bit of light from the F8500. Also worried about the VT60 and image retention, where the 8500 has virtually none, or none that lasts a long time. Any advice? What would others do?
mark_b is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 48 Old 02-11-2014, 07:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
eric3316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,745
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

Just looking for some advice on which tv I should get or keep. I currently have a 60" F8500 but have an opportunity to sell it and get a brand new 60" VT60. What are the pros and cons of each? What should I do? I wouldn't mind the better black levels, but do like the extra bit of light from the F8500. Also worried about the VT60 and image retention, where the 8500 has virtually none, or none that lasts a long time. Any advice? What would others do?
Why would you sell the F8500? It sounds like you like the TV and made a justification in your post as why to keep it.

Now what is it you don't like about the F8500 that would make you want to get rid of it besides the minor difference in black levels?
eric3316 is offline  
post #3 of 48 Old 02-11-2014, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
mark_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 22
It's mainly the black levels. In a dark room I can clearly see light in the blacks, so they aren't as black as I would like. Had a ZT before where the black was black. The F8500 is close, but a bit of that brighter blacks is a bit annoying, however with lights on, they are inky black.
mark_b is offline  
post #4 of 48 Old 02-11-2014, 07:58 AM
Member
 
ppipro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

It's mainly the black levels. In a dark room I can clearly see light in the blacks, so they aren't as black as I would like. Had a ZT before where the black was black. The F8500 is close, but a bit of that brighter blacks is a bit annoying, however with lights on, they are inky black.

Well, i traded my f8500 in for The ZT for that reason..i also think that the ZT had the better picture overall and black level was NOT close(zt is much better) . The F8500 has the brighter picture for sure so if the room does have ALOT of light coming in,then yes ,i would suggest the Samsung. Also, if you watch alot of hockey ,the samsung walks away from the ZT easily..

Everyone has their own opinion on what is important to them so there is no easy answer on what you will like .
Follow your eyes and gut feeling. You have seen both...
ppipro is offline  
post #5 of 48 Old 02-11-2014, 08:13 AM
Senior Member
 
colnago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

...Any advice?

Given the models you're interested in, watch the "Value Electronics 2013 HDTV shootout", and related videos, on youtube. Or just buy a bias light, and keep your 8500...as well as have it calibrated professionally.
colnago is offline  
post #6 of 48 Old 02-11-2014, 08:56 AM
Senior Member
 
elmorage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Return the F8500, buy the VT60, and then go post what you did in the F8500 thread and watch them go nuts.
vinnie97 likes this.
elmorage is offline  
post #7 of 48 Old 02-11-2014, 02:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eric3316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,745
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

It's mainly the black levels. In a dark room I can clearly see light in the blacks, so they aren't as black as I would like. Had a ZT before where the black was black. The F8500 is close, but a bit of that brighter blacks is a bit annoying, however with lights on, they are inky black.
Dare I ask what happened to the ZT?
eric3316 is offline  
post #8 of 48 Old 02-11-2014, 06:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
p5browne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 3,874
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

It's mainly the black levels. In a dark room I can clearly see light in the blacks, so they aren't as black as I would like. Had a ZT before where the black was black. The F8500 is close, but a bit of that brighter blacks is a bit annoying, however with lights on, they are inky black.

Check with any F8500 owner, the Blacks will come, but, you have to put some hours on the unit!
p5browne is offline  
post #9 of 48 Old 02-11-2014, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
mark_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 22
The ZT developed burn in from my satellite providers logo in the on screen guide. Avoiding the guide for a week and watching nothing but full screen content did not even slightly make the burn in less noticeable. It was a shame that I couldn't use that tv as a tv is intended to be used. In fact I'll likely keep the F8500. Bringing up what happened with the ZT reminds me that I've had nothing but bad Panasonic TV's. I had two VT50's each with lines running through the screen, and then the ZT, not to mention an old 800U that had issues.
mark_b is offline  
post #10 of 48 Old 02-11-2014, 07:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tbird8450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Are you using the black optimizer on the F8500?
tbird8450 is offline  
post #11 of 48 Old 02-11-2014, 09:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
discopaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

The ZT developed burn in from my satellite providers logo in the on screen guide. Avoiding the guide for a week and watching nothing but full screen content did not even slightly make the burn in less noticeable. It was a shame that I couldn't use that tv as a tv is intended to be used. In fact I'll likely keep the F8500. Bringing up what happened with the ZT reminds me that I've had nothing but bad Panasonic TV's. I had two VT50's each with lines running through the screen, and then the ZT, not to mention an old 800U that had issues.

I guess all you needed was a reminder of previous pannies for you to appreciate how good your sammy is now.
discopaul is offline  
post #12 of 48 Old 02-17-2014, 05:08 PM
Senior Member
 
amercnchopz34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
??? I could get a 65vt60 with 213 hrs for 2500 out the door with 3 yr warrany or brand new 64f8500....no warranty for 2500

What to do????
amercnchopz34 is offline  
post #13 of 48 Old 02-17-2014, 05:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
NorCalJason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by amercnchopz34 View Post

??? I could get a 65vt60 with 213 hrs for 2500 out the door with 3 yr warrany or brand new 64f8500....no warranty for 2500

What to do????

Contact Cleveland Plasma about a 64f8500, new, with warranty.
NorCalJason is offline  
post #14 of 48 Old 02-17-2014, 05:40 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

The ZT developed burn in from my satellite providers logo in the on screen guide. Avoiding the guide for a week and watching nothing but full screen content did not even slightly make the burn in less noticeable. It was a shame that I couldn't use that tv as a tv is intended to be used. In fact I'll likely keep the F8500. Bringing up what happened with the ZT reminds me that I've had nothing but bad Panasonic TV's. I had two VT50's each with lines running through the screen, and then the ZT, not to mention an old 800U that had issues.
I guess you made up your mind by now, but the VT isn't any less susceptible to IR than the ZT, so your viewing habits have pretty much forced the choice on you.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #15 of 48 Old 02-17-2014, 06:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
adone36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 28
The 8500 rates no where near a VT except in brightness and neither VT or ZT is "susceptible" to IR.

Tony
adone36 is offline  
post #16 of 48 Old 02-17-2014, 07:03 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
I just can't win with the dogmatists.

I can only speak for those who have shared their experience here, and I own one...it is nowhere near as resilient as the Kuro it replaced. Anecdotally speaking, the IR complaints on the Panasonics outweigh those on the F8500. CNET's own accidental torture test from a few years ago also bore this out.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #17 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 06:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
eric3316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,745
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I just can't win with the dogmatists.

I can only speak for those who have shared their experience here, and I own one...it is nowhere near as resilient as the Kuro it replaced. Anecdotally speaking, the IR complaints on the Panasonics outweigh those on the F8500. CNET's own accidental torture test from a few years ago also bore this out.
My VT60 with the pixel orbiter on gets absolutely no IR at all. Zero, Zilch!

With the pixel orbiter set to auto I would see IR. It would clear up but it was there. With the orbiter on I can watch anything for hours and get nothing. The Olympics, Super Bowl, Nascar Racing on Fox Sports, Disney Junior, I get not an ounce of IR.

I have lost all concerns I initially had when watching cable TV for hours. I now watch without worry and the pixel orbiter is the key.
eric3316 is offline  
post #18 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 10:59 AM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
OK, I guess I'll switch it on (because I haven't been using it religiously, and I've been using THX Cinema mode for the most part) and see what happens. The real torture test is that dreaded blinding Fox Sports logo.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #19 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 11:12 AM
Senior Member
 
amercnchopz34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalJason View Post

Contact Cleveland Plasma about a 64f8500, new, with warranty.


Around same price...
amercnchopz34 is offline  
post #20 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 11:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
eric3316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,745
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

OK, I guess I'll switch it on (because I haven't been using it religiously, and I've been using THX Cinema mode for the most part) and see what happens. The real torture test is that dreaded blinding Fox Sports logo.
I have watched Fox Sports the last 2 weeks and there is no sign of their logo on my TV. The Fox Sports Logo was the reason I initially returned my ST60. Wonder if it would have been a different story if I would have had the orbiter on when I used it instead of auto.

When I first picked up the ST60, a while back when it initially released, I was so scared of IR. It was my first quality plasma and I was really a noob when it came to TV's. Everyone posted that the orbiter was pointless and just a way to make people feel better. What can moving a few pixels actually do to help with IR. It would just smudge the IR instead of keeping it clean.

Now almost a year later and I want to say I came a long way in that year, my observations of IR is that the edges are the real culprit of the IR and not what is inside the logo's or static images. So logically, all that has to move a little is the edges. As long as the edges keep moving and are not in the same place, the last place the logo was will clear itself up before it comes back to it again.

So yes, a few pixel movements up, down and side to side is all that is needed to make the edges move to a completely new section of the screen and allow the last place to clear itself up. Makes total sense and so far my VT60 has shown this observation to be true.
eric3316 is offline  
post #21 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 11:58 AM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
I came from a Kuro where the setting actually didn't seem to make a difference, so this is why this IR behavior being so contingent on it is surprising to me.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #22 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 12:18 PM
Senior Member
 
9179mhb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

The 8500 rates no where near a VT except in brightness and neither VT or ZT is "susceptible" to IR.

Interesting comment given AVS Editor, Scott Wilkinson, ranked the F8500 second only to the ZT60 series Panasonic PDP.

AVS Forum's Top 5 Plasma TVs

Panasonic TC-PxxZT60

Samsung PNxxF8500

Panasonic TC-PxxVT60

Panasonic TC-PxxST60

Panasonic TC-PxxS60
9179mhb is offline  
post #23 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 12:23 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,388
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

Interesting comment given AVS Editor, Scott Wilkinson, ranked the F8500 second only to the ZT60 series Panasonic PDP.

AVS Forum's Top 5 Plasma TVs

Panasonic TC-PxxZT60

Samsung PNxxF8500

Panasonic TC-PxxVT60

Panasonic TC-PxxST60

Panasonic TC-PxxS60

Scott Wilkinson is wrong.

The ZT does not have deeper blacks than the VT60 if we are talking MLL.

DavidHir is offline  
post #24 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 12:41 PM
Member
 
jyqureshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Keep the F8500.

Panasonics still have Magenta/Green banding issues.
jyqureshi is offline  
post #25 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
adone36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

Interesting comment given AVS Editor, Scott Wilkinson, ranked the F8500 second only to the ZT60 series Panasonic PDP.

AVS Forum's Top 5 Plasma TVs

Panasonic TC-PxxZT60

Samsung PNxxF8500

Panasonic TC-PxxVT60

Panasonic TC-PxxST60

Panasonic TC-PxxS60

Interesting comment. I think Lindsey Lohan likes it too. But in technical sites and professional reviews, most even prefer the ST over an 8500.

Tony
adone36 is offline  
post #26 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 12:47 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
Scott Wilkinson versus Lindsay Lohan? Seriously? Anyway, he came to his conclusion after seeing them side by side, and with the ZT procuring a better contrast ratio according to some measurements, I think the filter is giving this deeper black impression.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #27 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 12:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
adone36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyqureshi View Post

Keep the F8500.

Panasonics still have Magenta/Green banding issues.

Any freaky problem you can come up with that has ever been mentioned by some forum cowboy does not change the fact that ANY Panasonic has MUCH FEWER consumer issues in quality surveys than ANY TV made by ANYBODY, even Samsung.

Tony
adone36 is offline  
post #28 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 12:55 PM
Member
 
jyqureshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Here are the images comparing Panasonic 54V10, 65S64, and Pioneer PRO-101FD:

All these pictures were taken on Sony A77 at 1/200 sec at f/4.0 ISO 1000:

Here is 54V10, in THX mode.


Here is 65S64, in AVS popular settings:


Here is my PRO-101FD:



Here is the video that I used, if anyone is interested : http://vimeo.com/34808923

I just want to say that these are only visible during side-by-side viewing and are hard to notice when watching on Panasonic by itself.
jyqureshi is offline  
post #29 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 01:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bull3964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 60
At this point in time, my opinion on IR is you are at the luck of the draw when it comes to your panel. Some have it, some don't, and it's simply a variance in manufacturing.

Watching The Daily Show and Colbert Report for 4 nights a week (with plenty of other material in-between and with the pixel orbiter on) would be enough to leave the translucent Comedy Central logo on the TV for the remainder of the weekend with my ST50.
bull3964 is online now  
post #30 of 48 Old 02-18-2014, 01:24 PM
Senior Member
 
9179mhb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

The 8500 rates no where near a VT except in brightness...

Interesting comment. I think Lindsey Lohan likes it too. But in technical sites and professional reviews, most even prefer the ST over an 8500.

Your "childish" Lindsey Lohan (I'll bet you're a Justin Bieber fan too) comment aside all reviews place the F8500 on par with the VT60.

If both PDPs are considered to be a step up from my PRO-150FD that is good enough for me.

I was interested in the ZT60 series for a while (not willing to settle for some cheap step down to the VT's) but the idea of having to crack open a brand new PDP to fix a fan noise problem was a deal killer for me.
9179mhb is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Samsung Pn51f8500 51 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Tc P60vt60 60 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv
Gear in this thread - Pn51f8500 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off