No more Panasonics. What's next best? Or LED? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 7 Old 02-11-2014, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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So I am searching for a 60-70 inch TV to replace my very old Toshiba DLP, and am having a lot of trouble. My wife is extremely sensitive to motion blur, and we both hate dejudder/soap opera affect, so we have been looking mostly at plasmas. The ST60 sounds like it would have been ideal for us, but alas we are too late, so what's next best?

The Samsung F8500 is a fantastic tv, but I don't think we want to spend that much.

The Samsung F5500 sounds decent, but I have concerns over the bright room performance and the auto brightness limit/popping issue. My living room is fairly long and skinny, with windows at either end along the short walls, with the TV in the middle of the long wall. I'm not too concerned about reflections since there are no lights behind us, but we don't particularly like watching TV in the dark, and I am worried about how the TV will look with the overhead can lights on. Should I be worried? They are on a dimmer, so dropping them down isn't a problem, but again, we don't like watching tv in the dark. Is a normally well lit room at night an issue with this TV, or would I be fine? Direct sunlight isn't a problem, just artificial lights. I am also concerned about judder from 24p sources, is failing that test as big an issue as they make it out to be?

There is also a 65inch E8000 demo model from 2012 at our local store for $2k, which is an option.

There are signs of a new value price samsung plasma, the H5000, shown here http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/PN64H5000AFXZA and here http://www.abt.com/product/77295/Samsung-PN64H5000AFXZA.html but I can't find any more information about it anywhere, nor can I find a release date.

Then there is the rumored mid 2014 Samsung 7xxx with the 8500 panel with less smart stuff for less money, but the $300-$700 less figure still puts it quite a bit higher then the others.

Finally, are there any LED options that would work to provide smooth motion without the soap opera effect? I have read about the black frame insertion tech used on the Samsung 6300 and 8000, but haven't had a chance to see it in person. How well does that work, does it come anywhere near plasma motion without the soap opera?

Thanks for the help!
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post #2 of 7 Old 02-11-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrien View Post

So I am searching for a 60-70 inch TV to replace my very old Toshiba DLP, and am having a lot of trouble. My wife is extremely sensitive to motion blur, and we both hate dejudder/soap opera affect, so we have been looking mostly at plasmas. The ST60 sounds like it would have been ideal for us, but alas we are too late, so what's next best?

The Samsung F8500 is a fantastic tv, but I don't think we want to spend that much.

The Samsung F5500 sounds decent, but I have concerns over the bright room performance and the auto brightness limit/popping issue. My living room is fairly long and skinny, with windows at either end along the short walls, with the TV in the middle of the long wall. I'm not too concerned about reflections since there are no lights behind us, but we don't particularly like watching TV in the dark, and I am worried about how the TV will look with the overhead can lights on. Should I be worried? They are on a dimmer, so dropping them down isn't a problem, but again, we don't like watching tv in the dark. Is a normally well lit room at night an issue with this TV, or would I be fine? Direct sunlight isn't a problem, just artificial lights. I am also concerned about judder from 24p sources, is failing that test as big an issue as they make it out to be?

There is also a 65inch E8000 demo model from 2012 at our local store for $2k, which is an option.

There are signs of a new value price samsung plasma, the H5000, shown here http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/PN64H5000AFXZA and here http://www.abt.com/product/77295/Samsung-PN64H5000AFXZA.html but I can't find any more information about it anywhere, nor can I find a release date.

Then there is the rumored mid 2014 Samsung 7xxx with the 8500 panel with less smart stuff for less money, but the $300-$700 less figure still puts it quite a bit higher then the others.

Finally, are there any LED options that would work to provide smooth motion without the soap opera effect? I have read about the black frame insertion tech used on the Samsung 6300 and 8000, but haven't had a chance to see it in person. How well does that work, does it come anywhere near plasma motion without the soap opera?

Thanks for the help!

 

Why not pick up a PN60F5300AF or  PN64F5300AF?  Im pretty sure I saw the 60" at Walmart for about $850 or so.  Thats a killer deal.  It has little to no smart stuff and a beautiful picture.  I have the the even less featureful PN51F4500 720p set and I can tell you, I have had no issues watching 24 fps DVD movies on it whatsoever (even without using the 96hz mode) and there is absolutely no soap opera effect / motion compensation issues to speak of.  Whether or not online "tests" say it fails 24fps, my eyes tell me there is no discernable difference between it and my previous CRT in watching all the DVD movies I have on it so far, so take that as you will.  To me, the soap opera effect of LED/LCDS ruins movies for me-- I hate it- which is one of the many reasons I chose a plasma, and so far I have been extremely satisfied with my choice.

 

When doing in store testing of the 4500 I purchased, I was also able to test a 60" 5300 and if I really was in the market for a 60" set, that would have been it.  It handled 480i, 480p, and 240p modes I tested on it very well. 

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post #3 of 7 Old 02-11-2014, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Why not pick up a PN60F5300AF or  PN64F5300AF?  Im pretty sure I saw the 60" at Walmart for about $850 or so.  Thats a killer deal.  It has little to no smart stuff and a beautiful picture.  I have the the even less featureful PN51F4500 720p set and I can tell you, I have had no issues watching 24 fps DVD movies on it whatsoever (even without using the 96hz mode) and there is absolutely no soap opera effect / motion compensation issues to speak of.  Whether or not online "tests" say it fails 24fps, my eyes tell me there is no discernable difference between it and my previous CRT in watching all the DVD movies I have on it so far, so take that as you will.  To me, the soap opera effect of LED/LCDS ruins movies for me-- I hate it- which is one of the many reasons I chose a plasma, and so far I have been extremely satisfied with my choice.

When doing in store testing of the 4500 I purchased, I was also able to test a 60" 5300 and if I really was in the market for a 60" set, that would have been it.  It handled 480i, 480p, and 240p modes I tested on it very well. 

I've been looking at the 5500 which has the same screen I believe. Its probably at the top of my list, but I really worry about the shininess of the screen, I have never been a fan of gloss. I like to watch TV with the lights up, so that is what is one of the main things holding me back. The other thing is the 24fps, was your old CRT using 3:2 pulldown as well? the stutter does bother me a bit, which is the other reason the 5500/5300 worries me, but I can probably get over that.
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post #4 of 7 Old 02-12-2014, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrien View Post

The Samsung F5500 sounds decent, but I have concerns over the bright room performance and the auto brightness limit/popping issue. My living room is fairly long and skinny, with windows at either end along the short walls, with the TV in the middle of the long wall. I'm not too concerned about reflections since there are no lights behind us, but we don't particularly like watching TV in the dark, and I am worried about how the TV will look with the overhead can lights on. Should I be worried? They are on a dimmer, so dropping them down isn't a problem, but again, we don't like watching tv in the dark. Is a normally well lit room at night an issue with this TV, or would I be fine? Direct sunlight isn't a problem, just artificial lights. I am also concerned about judder from 24p sources, is failing that test as big an issue as they make it out to be?


 

 

I own a PN60F5500, I can tell you I have zero problems with the panel brightness in normal room lights. We have two standup floor lights that are on in the corners at night, the room is just fine brightness-wise, and the TV is perfectly viewable.

I do have to say I can't see how watching any panel at all would be comfortable with overhead lights on, they are so intrusive, but to each their own. Properly dimmed, you won't have trouble at all.

 

I haven't seen any judder issues stick out at me, but I'm an "average" viewer, my eyes aren't trained to see it. If that also describes you, then you'll be just fine.

 

The F5500 is amazing to my eyes at least. The brightness of the colors pops out of the screen and into your face. With dim or normal lighting, the black levels are like infinity.  The 3D is top notch as well. If you have a proper 3D source, it is exactly like the movie theatre. I put on Jurassic Park 3D and it blew my mind, very immersive.

 

And if you look into this TV and start reading about things like pentile or buzzing, rest assured that these "problems" are way way overhyped. There is zero pentile grid effect from normal viewing distances. 2' or closer of course. But at 8' back on my couch, it is not noticeable. And the buzzing is strangely only noticeable when the stereo is turned off. And judging by how many times I watch TV with no sound (zero), it's not an issue.

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post #5 of 7 Old 02-15-2014, 09:38 AM
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if you guys are sensitive to motion blurr then forget lcd . led is no different its just front moted l.e.d. rather the backlight cfl based , same technology inferior tech then plasma and plasma is close to crt tube ln terms of picture quality.

i purchased a 60 inch for my living room a few days ago 60f5350 the costco version of f5300 . its an amazing set for the $8xx
price . its pq is excellent for its price too get your self one try it thats really only way find out.

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post #6 of 7 Old 02-15-2014, 04:46 PM
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I've been looking at the 5500 which has the same screen I believe. Its probably at the top of my list, but I really worry about the shininess of the screen, I have never been a fan of gloss. I like to watch TV with the lights up, so that is what is one of the main things holding me back. The other thing is the 24fps, was your old CRT using 3:2 pulldown as well? the stutter does bother me a bit, which is the other reason the 5500/5300 worries me, but I can probably get over that.


Were there ever any non- 3:2 pulldown CRTs (other than PC monitors) produced?  With 60hz, I think all 24 hz content must be displayed with 3:2 pulldown right?  I think my old Hitachi Ultravision Digital 1080i CRT was capable of 72hz, but only in VGA mode.  I know my Philips only used 60hz refresh for what I did with it, so yeah, I'm pretty sure all my previous experience was with 3:2 pulldown, and the 4500 looks pretty much like that. 

 

So, if 3:2 bothers you, that might be an issue.

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post #7 of 7 Old 02-15-2014, 05:22 PM
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Were there ever any non- 3:2 pulldown CRTs (other than PC monitors) produced?  With 60hz, I think all 24 hz content must be displayed with 3:2 pulldown right?  I think my old Hitachi Ultravision Digital 1080i CRT was capable of 72hz, but only in VGA mode.  I know my Philips only used 60hz refresh for what I did with it, so yeah, I'm pretty sure all my previous experience was with 3:2 pulldown, and the 4500 looks pretty much like that. 

So, if 3:2 bothers you, that might be an issue.

Not possible on my Sony Trinitron BVM either. It's only capable of 60hz with a few wiggle rooms for classic arcade PCBs. MS-DOS games for example does not run on my BVM. Running on 24hz or 48hz is possible on my FW900 using Powerstrip though.

...To the OP, it looks like the H5000 might be the ticket to your glare problem. Same TV as the F5300, but with the anti glare filter of the F8500. Just watch out for the vertical viewing angle which is terrible for plasma. tongue.gif
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