Samsung 2014 PN64H5000 thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
Thread Tools
post #151 of 523 Old 07-09-2014, 01:34 PM
Member
 
trp3383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have a 60st60 and am thinking of grabbing the h5000. From what i've read the black are a bit darker and the light output is more. I dont care about smart app and 3d. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Would it be an upgrade?
trp3383 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #152 of 523 Old 07-09-2014, 01:54 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ph8te's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,127
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1211 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejcrossl View Post
How are their 19 pages about the 2014 LG plasma, and hardly anything on this one?

Probably because people syh away from Pentile screens. That was a major detractor when this was released.


Sent from my Flip Phone using DOS
Ph8te is offline  
post #153 of 523 Old 07-09-2014, 03:08 PM
Member
 
ejcrossl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
I'm assuming this is in store? It's $2099 at the website.
http://www.frys.com/product/8039904
It was last weeks deal. Not sure why it is now listed at $2100, it has always been $1397 at Fry's. Its probably an error on their part.
I had Amazon price match last week, 2% cash back in rewards, and saved 1% in taxes by buying on Amazon. Also free delivery on prime, I don't think Fry's was free delivery.
ejcrossl is offline  
post #154 of 523 Old 07-09-2014, 03:14 PM
Member
 
ejcrossl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Probably because people syh away from Pentile screens. That was a major detractor when this was released.

I definitely noticed it up really close in the store. From a normal distance I could not. I also saw pixelation when up close to all the plasmas, so I didn't let it deter me. $3000 for the F8500 was not an option, and I wanted to get as big as I could before plasmas are gone. I hope the pentile display doesn't come back to bite me.
ejcrossl is offline  
post #155 of 523 Old 07-10-2014, 03:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
StinDaWg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 379 Post(s)
Liked: 194
Looking forward to your thoughts ejcrossl. I don't notice any difference with the pentile screen on my 60F5300 from 8' away.
StinDaWg is offline  
post #156 of 523 Old 07-11-2014, 08:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hhaller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,464
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 44
FWIW, for those considering this set, I was told by a very well-respected calibrator that floating blacks are not a problem on the H5000. Apparently the issue has mostly been cleaned up on the 8500 as well, though it still happens on some content if you know where to look.
hhaller is offline  
post #157 of 523 Old 07-11-2014, 04:48 PM
Member
 
ejcrossl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Fry's has it on sale again this week for $1197. Amazon will price match.

http://www.frys.com/product/8039904?...%20date:071114
ejcrossl is offline  
post #158 of 523 Old 07-12-2014, 09:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
StinDaWg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 379 Post(s)
Liked: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaller View Post
FWIW, for those considering this set, I was told by a very well-respected calibrator that floating blacks are not a problem on the H5000. Apparently the issue has mostly been cleaned up on the 8500 as well, though it still happens on some content if you know where to look.
Even with black optimizer turned on? So black is a stable .0016fL at all times, or are you saying the lag between when BO turned on and off isn't noticeable anymore?
StinDaWg is offline  
post #159 of 523 Old 07-12-2014, 09:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
StinDaWg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 379 Post(s)
Liked: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejcrossl View Post
Fry's has it on sale again this week for $1197. Amazon will price match.

http://www.frys.com/product/8039904?...%20date:071114
Too bad this isn't available for shipping, Amazon charges tax here.
StinDaWg is offline  
post #160 of 523 Old 07-12-2014, 11:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hhaller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,464
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Even with black optimizer turned on? So black is a stable .0016fL at all times, or are you saying the lag between when BO turned on and off isn't noticeable anymore?
I did not go into specifics; all I was told (and all that I inquired about) was that the problems that were present on the 8500 were not present on the H5000. Take that for what it is worth.

If that is true, it makes Samsung's decision to cheap out on the H5000 all the more frustrating.
hhaller is offline  
post #161 of 523 Old 07-13-2014, 03:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
StinDaWg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 379 Post(s)
Liked: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaller View Post
I did not go into specifics; all I was told (and all that I inquired about) was that the problems that were present on the 8500 were not present on the H5000. Take that for what it is worth.

If that is true, it makes Samsung's decision to cheap out on the H5000 all the more frustrating.
Ya, and the fact that there is only 1 professional review out for this set doesn't help. I can't afford to spend $1200 on something and then get dinged with a 15% restocking fee if it has too many issues I can't live with.
StinDaWg is offline  
post #162 of 523 Old 07-13-2014, 07:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RWetmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brick, New Jersey
Posts: 3,309
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked: 83
That this set is Pentile just killed nearly all interest in it.
RWetmore is online now  
post #163 of 523 Old 07-13-2014, 09:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
StinDaWg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 379 Post(s)
Liked: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
That this set is Pentile just killed nearly all interest in it.
Too many people with this type of comment without actually seeing it in their home. Would I prefer my 60F5300 to not be pentile? Sure, but from more than 3' away I can't see pixel structure and it's really no different than any other 1080p tv.
StinDaWg is offline  
post #164 of 523 Old 07-14-2014, 09:47 AM
Newbie
 
lpqb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Samsung is at pains to identify the H5000 and both the 64″ and 51″ F5300 models as “Full HD,” not as “Vertical HD” (which refers to any pentile display, producing 1080p only in B&W). Here’s the chat I just had:

Visitor: Can you confirm that the H5000 does NOT use a pentile display?
Shawn: Yes, H5000 would have Full HD display.
Visitor: I wonder if Samsung would like to correct this widespread misunderstanding by indicating that the H5000 does not use a pentile display.
Shawn: I will forward your feedback to the appropriate department.
Visitor: Here’s the only snag: the Energy Guide for the H5000 suggests that the display IS pentile: $22, just $2 above the pentile 60″ F5300, reads like the budget version, while the 64″ F5300 comes in at $30 per year. How can the H5000 use so little energy if it’s not pentile?
Shawn: The energy consumption wouldn’t rely only on the display of the TV. There would be various factors involved in the energy consumption.
Visitor: OK. Thanks, Shawn.
Shawn: You’re welcome. Is there anything else that I can assist you with?
Visitor: No. But do you mind if I post this information (“the H5000 does NOT use a pentile display”) on the AVS Forum?
Shawn: You can go ahead.
lpqb is offline  
post #165 of 523 Old 07-14-2014, 10:04 AM
Newbie
 
lpqb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
If the Samsung website, which specifies "Full HD" for the H5000, is consistently using this moniker to distinguish standard RGB arrays from pentile arrays, and if the Samsung rep with whom I just spoke ("Shawn") is correct and honest, then the website perhaps most responsible for misinforming the public in its test of this model (http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/pn64h...1403143657.htm) might want to update its information.

On the other hand, does anyone here on AVS have solid technical information to show that Samsung's "Full HD" designation for the H5000 is incorrect/misleading and that the unit does in fact use a pentile display? If you click on the F5300 or F5500 size options, you'll see the "Full HD" description switch to "Vertical HD" for the 60" unit. Because there's no 60" H5000, however, there's no such informal check for this distinction between panel types.

Samsung is fairly upfront about the difference, though obviously pushing the positive, not the negative, attributes of the pentile display. So I'm inclined to believe that the H5000 is what Samsung now explicitly says it is: Full HD, not Vertical HD (pentile).
lpqb is offline  
post #166 of 523 Old 07-14-2014, 10:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hhaller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,464
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 44
I believe the one solid review of this set, over at hdtvtest.co.uk, goes into the whole pentile display thing quite a bit. You may want to look at it.
Ph8te likes this.
hhaller is offline  
post #167 of 523 Old 07-14-2014, 10:13 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ph8te's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,127
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1211 Post(s)
Liked: 621
You'll probably have I wait for an owner to chime in once they get the set in home.


Sent from my Flip Phone using DOS
Ph8te is offline  
post #168 of 523 Old 07-14-2014, 10:31 AM
Member
 
ejcrossl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Ok, I finally got it installed this weekend. I certainly am not an expert enough to say if it is a Pentile display or not just by looking at it, but it certainly looks pretty bad when you are right up to the display. HOWEVER, just moving 3-4 ft gives you a great picture. I have had an LG PT350 for several years, and this picture blows it away. Colors are vibrant, blacks are defined and crisp. I can't tell its a Pentile screen at all from viewing distance. The glare is really bad though. I never had an issue w/ my LG, but now the lamps in our room take over the picture when on.
All in all, size/picture quality/cost, I am extremely happy with it.
ejcrossl is offline  
post #169 of 523 Old 07-14-2014, 10:34 AM
Member
 
ejcrossl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Too bad this isn't available for shipping, Amazon charges tax here.
Yeah I have to pay Fry's tax anyway (in state and also would be stuck w/ city tax, so amazon ends up better) so not a real good option for me anyway. I am guessing w/ Fry's running their sale twice in 3 weeks, amazon dropping their price $100, and the lack of reviews/forum posts that this TV isn't doing too well. If I had a crystal ball, I would think it would say prices are going to continue to drop on this one.
ejcrossl is offline  
post #170 of 523 Old 07-14-2014, 11:12 AM
Member
 
ejcrossl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpqb View Post
Samsung is at pains to identify the H5000 and both the 64″ and 51″ F5300 models as “Full HD,” not as “Vertical HD” (which refers to any pentile display, producing 1080p only in B&W). Here’s the chat I just had:

Visitor: Can you confirm that the H5000 does NOT use a pentile display?
Shawn: Yes, H5000 would have Full HD display.
Visitor: I wonder if Samsung would like to correct this widespread misunderstanding by indicating that the H5000 does not use a pentile display.
Shawn: I will forward your feedback to the appropriate department.
Visitor: Here’s the only snag: the Energy Guide for the H5000 suggests that the display IS pentile: $22, just $2 above the pentile 60″ F5300, reads like the budget version, while the 64″ F5300 comes in at $30 per year. How can the H5000 use so little energy if it’s not pentile?
Shawn: The energy consumption wouldn’t rely only on the display of the TV. There would be various factors involved in the energy consumption.
Visitor: OK. Thanks, Shawn.
Shawn: You’re welcome. Is there anything else that I can assist you with?
Visitor: No. But do you mind if I post this information (“the H5000 does NOT use a pentile display”) on the AVS Forum?
Shawn: You can go ahead.
Might want to ask them how http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/pn64h...1403143657.htm got the subpixel layout they displayed if it's not Pentile. I wonder if there will be any ramifications from them broadcasting on their website that its a full 1080p display.
For me it doesn't matter who is right, its a pretty good picture for me.
ejcrossl is offline  
post #171 of 523 Old 07-15-2014, 09:06 AM
Newbie
 
lpqb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
UPDATE: the Samsung website now contains a manual for the H5000, and it reads "1920 x 1080 (Black & White)" for the resolution. So the representative was wrong, the Samsung website IS misleading, and the HDTV.co.uk website was correct. The H5000 *does* use the lower-end pentile display.
lpqb is offline  
post #172 of 523 Old 07-15-2014, 09:10 AM
Newbie
 
lpqb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Here's an excerpt of the chat I just had:

Visitor: I just found the information in the manual that Samsung newly loaded on its website: 1920 x 1080 (Black & White).
Samantha: I have checked the information.
Samantha: This model TV uses the vertical HD with 1920 x 1080 display.
Samantha: Yes, you are absolutely correct.

Very disappointing. By calling it "Full HD" and not using the "Vertical HD" term used elsewhere, Samsung does seem to be trying to mislead the public about the H5000 panel.
lpqb is offline  
post #173 of 523 Old 07-15-2014, 10:05 AM
Member
 
ejcrossl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpqb View Post
Here's an excerpt of the chat I just had:

Visitor: I just found the information in the manual that Samsung newly loaded on its website: 1920 x 1080 (Black & White).
Samantha: I have checked the information.
Samantha: This model TV uses the vertical HD with 1920 x 1080 display.
Samantha: Yes, you are absolutely correct.

Very disappointing. By calling it "Full HD" and not using the "Vertical HD" term used elsewhere, Samsung does seem to be trying to mislead the public about the H5000 panel.
Vertical HD is on the face of the box the panel comes in also. They have to be deliberately trying to mislead. It's not that hard, and it's not that easy to overlook.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20140714_230949_574.jpg
Views:	135
Size:	136.6 KB
ID:	162425  
ejcrossl is offline  
post #174 of 523 Old 07-15-2014, 06:55 PM
Member
 
yesitsmario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
So what's so bad about a "pentile display" ?
yesitsmario is offline  
post #175 of 523 Old 07-15-2014, 08:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Jason626's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: illinois
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Each pixel is usually made up of red blue green (RBG). In RG BG PenTile displays there are only two subpixels per pixel, with twice as many green pixels than red and blue ones. Blues and reds are larger than greens.

It may not be bad but it's different for tv to have them compAred to a tablet or a phone that uses it for power saving and longevity.
Jason626 is offline  
post #176 of 523 Old 07-15-2014, 09:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
StinDaWg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,840
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 379 Post(s)
Liked: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejcrossl View Post
Ok, I finally got it installed this weekend. I certainly am not an expert enough to say if it is a Pentile display or not just by looking at it, but it certainly looks pretty bad when you are right up to the display. HOWEVER, just moving 3-4 ft gives you a great picture. I have had an LG PT350 for several years, and this picture blows it away. Colors are vibrant, blacks are defined and crisp. I can't tell its a Pentile screen at all from viewing distance. The glare is really bad though. I never had an issue w/ my LG, but now the lamps in our room take over the picture when on.
All in all, size/picture quality/cost, I am extremely happy with it.
Please test for floating blacks with "dark room" optimizer turned on. Easiest source to see this would be an episode of 24 or True Blood.

Also check for pink tint on a white screen.
zzdocxx likes this.
StinDaWg is offline  
post #177 of 523 Old 07-16-2014, 09:24 AM
Member
 
ejcrossl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Please test for floating blacks with "dark room" optimizer turned on. Easiest source to see this would be an episode of 24 or True Blood.

Also check for pink tint on a white screen.
Will do, I have an episode of True Blood to watch tonight. Any level of dark optimizer that is worse than others? I think I have it on "dark room" mode currently.
ejcrossl is offline  
post #178 of 523 Old 07-16-2014, 10:21 AM
Member
 
ejcrossl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Please test for floating blacks with "dark room" optimizer turned on. Easiest source to see this would be an episode of 24 or True Blood.

Also check for pink tint on a white screen.
What should I be looking for with "floating blacks"? I assume it means the blacks fade darker and lighter during a dark scene.
ejcrossl is offline  
post #179 of 523 Old 07-16-2014, 10:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ph8te's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,127
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1211 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejcrossl View Post
What should I be looking for with "floating blacks"? I assume it means the blacks fade darker and lighter during a dark scene.

You basically nailed it. You'll see the screen get light then dark again. This in the past was referred to brightness pops, but has changed to floating blacks.


Sent from my Flip Phone using DOS
zzdocxx likes this.
Ph8te is offline  
post #180 of 523 Old 07-16-2014, 01:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Jason626's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: illinois
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
You basically nailed it. You'll see the screen get light then dark again. This in the past was referred to brightness pops, but has changed to floating blacks.


Sent from my Flip Phone using DOS
The brightness pops were due to abl early on. Noticeable on hockey or a lot of white screen. It was more if a two step bump bump in light. There was a video of it that showed a hockey game and as the camera panned from one end of the rink to the other. As the crowd in the stands came into view the screen brightness did a quick 2 pops up in light out put.

The floating blacks are mainly in dark scenes most noticeable in letter box movies. When a little bit of scene changes dark optimizer kicks in and has to compute when the work. I consider it like Software ware based blacks. Nott as bad as led edge lit software micro dimming stuff. If blacks could be deep and solid there wouldn't need to be black optimizer at all implemented.

That's just my take on it, for what it's worth.
Ph8te likes this.
Jason626 is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
PN64H5000 , Samsung 64 Inch Pn64f5300 Plasma
Gear in this thread - PN64H5000 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off