Pioneer Elite still the Best TV ever made in most videophile opinions? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 63 Old 03-05-2014, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Im going crazy trying to decide on the following three options:

(Used) Pioneer KURO 1080p Elite Plasma TV PRO-111FD
(New) Samsung PN51F8500
(New) Panasonic TC-P50ST60

All in the $1600-1700 range.

The only thing that concerns me about the Samsung is they have horrible CS in my experience, and usually have a buzzing sound (unless this had been rectified in the newer models?)

TV is going in a bedroom, always watched in the dark.
Opinions? Suggestions?

Thanks. smile.gif
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post #2 of 63 Old 03-05-2014, 11:28 AM
 
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Definitely the 111FD from that bunch. You could do one better and seek out a used 500M or 101FD for even better dark room experience.
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post #3 of 63 Old 03-05-2014, 11:35 AM
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First off you will get some who own one of the above tell you that their display is the best. I would never pay $1600 for a ST60; i could have bought a new one a month ago for $600, just couldn't justify having a tv in a box sitting in the garage. Do you watch 3D? If so that makes the decision easy. How many hours does the Kuro have, any red tint, do you know the owner, any evidence of IR? If you can answer those 4 questions I would most likely say Kuro assuming responses to the questions are correct. I would not buy a used set off the internet without seeing it first and putting it through its paces - see Somelogin as one example. Full disclosure, I own a VT60 and a Pioneer 5020.
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post #4 of 63 Old 03-05-2014, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhunkler View Post

Im going crazy trying to decide on the following three options:

(Used) Pioneer KURO 1080p Elite Plasma TV PRO-111FD
(New) Samsung PN51F8500
(New) Panasonic TC-P50ST60


The only thing that concerns me about the Samsung is they have horrible CS in my experience, and usually have a buzzing sound (unless this had been rectified in the newer models?)

TV is going in a bedroom, always watched in the dark.
Opinions? Suggestions?

Thanks. smile.gif

A 50" ST60 is not worth $1600 imo, they are very good sets but that is price gouging, the 8500 is in its normal price range but it depends on your viewing priorities. I would trust the kuro owner opinions here

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post #5 of 63 Old 03-05-2014, 12:08 PM
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I would be careful buying a used TV as you never know what you are going to get. Also, you take that TV home and it breaks a week later you just wasted all that money. No warranty or anything.

I personally would rather get a new TV that might be just a little less in pq but have the comfort of knowing I will be covered for at least a certain amount of time if something should go wrong.

I would not pay that much for a 50" ST60. That is more then the 60" inch were selling for and seems like it is a jacked up price.

Me personally, I would go with the Sammy even though I think that is still a lot of money to spend on a 51" TV.
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post #6 of 63 Old 03-05-2014, 05:39 PM
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The 50" ST60 was a $999 tv 2-3 months ago when they were available... $100-$200 less as open box display models.. DO NOT pay $1600 for one. 

 

That being said, the Kuro is going to have more accurate, and some would say a superior picture to the 8500 samsung.... but the samsung is no slouch.. just eh.. a 51"?  Seems kinda small.


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post #7 of 63 Old 03-05-2014, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies. Since everyone was saying the Panasonic was way to high, I'm thinking I copied and pasted the wrong model #.
It's for the bedroom, 51" is actually big in there! lol. I was thinking of getting a 46" LED, but I just dont like how fake the colors look... I cant believe after all of these years the Kuro/Elite is still favored. Amazing. Im not going with the used one however, for obvious reasons as some stated. Back to the drawing board I guess...
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post #8 of 63 Old 03-06-2014, 11:13 AM
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i've never owned a kuro, but i do own a f8500 and i think if you can get a good kuro for the same price, it's probably still worth it unless you hate watching tv in the dark.

i will say though, i'm pretty sure samsung will have better CS than pioneer tongue.gif

if you're actually looking at a vt60 and not a st60, i may go that route over the kuro. hard to say, as i don't have experience with the kuro though, but the vt60 is pretty darn good in every measurable way, but also has some updated features the kuro's don't(if you're interested in them)

also, if it's at ALL possible, i'd recommend you go larger. it's normally frustrating when 6months later you start wishing for a larger screen, but it's going to be even worse when you realize you won't be able to buy a new one, even 2-3yrs down the road. buy the tv you'll still be happy with in a couple of years, because there's likely not going to be an option to upgrade except for OLED, and who knows how long that will be?
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post #9 of 63 Old 03-06-2014, 02:11 PM
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The real choices are New (F8500) vs Used (Kuro).

Are you comfortable purchasing a used plasma TV?
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post #10 of 63 Old 03-06-2014, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalJason View Post

The real choices are New (F8500) vs Used (Kuro).

Are you comfortable purchasing a used plasma TV?

Are you comfortable purchasing a used plasma TV, for which repair parts may not be available any longer?

I went through this a couple of months ago, kicking myself hard that I bought a 50" Kuro back in the day, and back then I should have then bought the 60" Kuro. Had I done so, I'd still be using that 60" Kuro. But I did not buy the 60" Kuro back in the day, I bought 50" instead, so...

Last month I replaced the 50" Kuro with a 64" Samsung.

Really happy so far. The 50" Kuro had better perceived motion smoothness compared to the 64" Samsung, but the 64" Samsung has an obviously better contrast ratio (Because my Kuro could never quite make it into acceptable white levels).

YMMV.
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post #11 of 63 Old 03-07-2014, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Going to look at a 50" 111FD Elite tomorrow. Now that I got my model #'s straight, I'm going to sell my 60" Kuro (6020) and get the Panasonic 65" ZT60 for the livingroom. Found one new for $3k...smile.gif
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post #12 of 63 Old 03-07-2014, 11:14 PM
 
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Awesome, (almost) the best of both worlds. smile.gif
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post #13 of 63 Old 03-08-2014, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhunkler View Post
The only thing that concerns me about the Samsung is they have horrible CS in my experience, and usually have a buzzing sound (unless this had been rectified in the newer models?)

 

Pretty certain the later models don't buzz as much because my replacement 64F8500 is at least half as loud, some have mentioned light output being scaled back so that might be it.

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post #14 of 63 Old 03-10-2014, 01:30 AM
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I would never buy a used tv for 1600.

That leaves the panny and Sammy. The differences in mll is tiny, ~0.0002 in the Panny's favor. That's virtually indistinguishable, and being that small set to set variations makes those differences almost meaningless. The Sammy however can get significantly brighter and produce better whites than either 2. So the Sammy makes the most sense here.
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post #15 of 63 Old 03-10-2014, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I missed out on the 65" ZT60 but I did buy (5) 60" of which I have 2 left for sale. Still looking for the BEST 50" I can find for my bedroom. Contenders: Looking at a used 500M (seller is asking $1499) , a used PRO-111FD (seller is asking $1600), and a new Panasonic TC-P50ST60... ($999)...
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post #16 of 63 Old 03-10-2014, 01:23 PM
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If you don't go for the new ST60, PM me where I might buy it. I need a new TV for the playroom.
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post #17 of 63 Old 03-10-2014, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gabatta View Post

If you don't go for the new ST60, PM me where I might buy it. I need a new TV for the playroom.

Nevermind. Sears had it, but out of stock. (why its still listed is beyond me lol)

Guy on eBay wants $1250 for a used one :-/
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post #18 of 63 Old 03-10-2014, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhunkler View Post

Im going crazy trying to decide on the following three options:

(Used) Pioneer KURO 1080p Elite Plasma TV PRO-111FD
(New) Samsung PN51F8500
(New) Panasonic TC-P50ST60

All in the $1600-1700 range.

The only thing that concerns me about the Samsung is they have horrible CS in my experience, and usually have a buzzing sound (unless this had been rectified in the newer models?)

TV is going in a bedroom, always watched in the dark.
Opinions? Suggestions?

Thanks. smile.gif

I am receiving delivery of a 64F8500 tomorrow. This display will replace an 8th Gen. Pioneer PRO-150FD. I should have a reasonably good idea how well the PDPs stack up against each other during the next week.

While you're considering a 9th Gen. Pioneer display provided the F8500 measures up to the PRO-150FD I'd recommend buying the 51F8500.

I always prefer to buy new versus used and the F8500 may be your last opportunity to acquire a high-end, smart, 3D capable, PDP.
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post #19 of 63 Old 03-10-2014, 02:07 PM
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Short of OLED, I still find the last of the Pioneers to be the best flat panels ever made in terms of picture quality, especially with a proper calibration. If you've tweaked the black levels as D-Nice has been able to do, then they are even better.

Other factors could sway ones decision, though...such as bright-room performance, screen size, "smart" features, etc. Certainly all Pioneers have been bested in these areas.
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post #20 of 63 Old 03-10-2014, 03:13 PM
 
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My recommendation remains the same, a 500M or 101FD if you don't mind the risks involved with buying used. Black room performance is unparalleled unless you grab an OLED. smile.gif
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post #21 of 63 Old 03-10-2014, 03:38 PM
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I came across this topic on Google. What a depressing topic regarding cheapness.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346207/why-did-pioneer-stop-making-plasma-tvs

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post #22 of 63 Old 03-10-2014, 09:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Black room performance is unparalleled unless you grab an OLED. smile.gif

LOL


I will post comparsions between the LG OLED TV and the super tweaked Kuro.
I know the result already but im not going to tell you.
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post #23 of 63 Old 03-10-2014, 09:06 PM
 
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LOL ya'self. A pic will mean fook all if I'm not viewing it on an OLED myself (and a 5" phone screen isn't sufficient enough).
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post #24 of 63 Old 03-18-2014, 08:07 PM
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I have a 9 year old Pioneer Elite 1120 <50"/1080i> in one family room and just added the Samsung  PNF648500 (64") with 1080P of course. 

 

I love my old Pioneer.  People still are wowed by it's picture especially for sports.  I do know that many of you have the Kuro and therefore 1080P Pioneer models.

 

I was never wowed by any of the Panasonics- always too dark of a screen to my liking.  I do think they were good values, but for me only the Pioneers gave me the wow factor:  Rich, Vibrant and Bright colors that jump off the screen.

 

I'm breaking in my Samsung so too soon to critically watch it, but there's a Dynamic Mode that brightens the screen up nicely.  Besides all the great reviews here, Cnet and CR, when I went to BB I thought the picture was tremendous.

 

I do miss Pioneer not being in the Plasma business any more.  9 years ago we were at a friend's house who just bought a Pioneer Elite with my wife.  She saw HDTV for the first time and that's all I needed to convince her to spend a ridiculous sum of money on a TV!  Good times.  ;-)


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post #25 of 63 Old 03-20-2014, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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LOL


I will post comparsions between the LG OLED TV and the super tweaked Kuro.
I know the result already but im not going to tell you.

Any comparison yet? I thought the ZT looked better than the OLED in Magnolia...
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post #26 of 63 Old 03-20-2014, 05:09 PM
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Far from it.


Any true videophile with good vision, viewing from a SMPTE-recommended distance (and even more so with the closer THX distance) will notice artifacts along smooth brightly-lit edges in the image, when watching on the proper power setting. I've never seen this even on bargain-bin televisions.


It's a good thing Pioneer is no longer making televisions or I would sue them so hard they would never sell another one anyway. As it is now, I have more important things in my life.

P.S. The sets are also infamous for a red push. Anyone who values accuracy in their picture (as a true videophile should) would avoid Pioneer. Luckily, Pioneer handed over to Panasonic who have done a good job cleaning up their mess. Unfortunately too late for me, since I already bought from Pioneer (PRO101)
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post #27 of 63 Old 03-20-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WebEffect View Post

Far from it.


Any true videophile with good vision, viewing from a SMPTE-recommended distance (and even more so with the closer THX distance) will notice artifacts along smooth brightly-lit edges in the image, when watching on the proper power setting. I've never seen this even on bargain-bin televisions.


It's a good thing Pioneer is no longer making televisions or I would sue them so hard they would never sell another one anyway. As it is now, I have more important things in my life.

P.S. The sets are also infamous for a red push. Anyone who values accuracy in their picture (as a true videophile should) would avoid Pioneer. Luckily, Pioneer handed over to Panasonic who have done a good job cleaning up their mess. Unfortunately too late for me, since I already bought from Pioneer (PRO101)
Sounds like you have a defective unit. Have you seen similar artifacts on other Kuros? Red Tint can be cured, also it is possible your black level has drifted as well. With little work it can be addressed.
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post #28 of 63 Old 03-20-2014, 06:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebEffect View Post

P.S. The sets are also infamous for a red push.

i know
i had the red tint before
the MLL was higher than my old LED LCD Sony W9
around 0.03Y cd/m2

now
0/Zero/ Blacks
BOOOOM!

only OLED can compete
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post #29 of 63 Old 04-03-2014, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhunkler View Post

Im going crazy trying to decide on the following three options:

(Used) Pioneer KURO 1080p Elite Plasma TV PRO-111FD
(New) Samsung PN51F8500
(New) Panasonic TC-P50ST60

All in the $1600-1700 range.

The only thing that concerns me about the Samsung is they have horrible CS in my experience, and usually have a buzzing sound (unless this had been rectified in the newer models?)

TV is going in a bedroom, always watched in the dark.
Opinions? Suggestions?

Thanks. smile.gif

 

 

 

Did you decide?

 

I now have had the 64" version of the Samsung you're looking at for 3 weeks.  Awesome TV with great technology.  Great picture, then you can look at Facebook, watch Netflix, Skype someone.  It's modern and up to date.  Compared to my 5th generation Pioneer Elite- the picture is much better.  Can't comment on the Kuro you're considering.  Buying used is a risk.

 

I don't understand why people complain about buzzing.  Maybe some are more sensitive to it.  ALL plasmas buzz.  But, for me to hear it I need to place an ear against the TV.  From a few feet away I don't hear it.  


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post #30 of 63 Old 04-03-2014, 08:35 AM
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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