Why motion blur on the st60 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 03-09-2014, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok..I am really confused.

 

is anyone else getting motion blur on this set?  Everything blurs when there is movement and then gets back to normal when it stops.  I can't really see a difference between when an object is stationary and the camera swoops across the screen or something moves across the screen and the camera is stationary - both a a huge blur.

 

is this normal?  if not, how do I correct it?

 

thanks!

dave


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post #2 of 10 Old 03-09-2014, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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ok..my bad.  I think this might be judder due to 24p.

 

I am still in the process of understanding all this, but SHOULDN'T the best picture be with your BD player set to output 24p and the tv set on either 60 or 96hz?  However, on these settings I get MAJOR judder on blu ray playback.  When I turn OFF the 24p on the bd player, the 60HZ and the 3:2 pulldown is grayed out on the TV but the judder is gone.

 

Is this normal?  WHy do I get better motion with the 24p off?

 

Thanks,

DAve


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post #3 of 10 Old 03-09-2014, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davemsc View Post

ok..my bad.  I think this might be judder due to 24p.

I am still in the process of understanding all this, but SHOULDN'T the best picture be with your BD player set to output 24p and the tv set on either 60 or 96hz?  However, on these settings I get MAJOR judder on blu ray playback.  When I turn OFF the 24p on the bd player, the 60HZ and the 3:2 pulldown is grayed out on the TV but the judder is gone.

Is this normal?  WHy do I get better motion with the 24p off?

Thanks,
DAve

Yes you are seeing judder.
Some people are more susceptible than others.
For some 60 is more enjoyable.
And yes it better to do the conversion at the source.
I can live with the judder as I like the look of the unprocessed image-it has better depth and definition.

48fps/HFR is coming but I have yet to see anything that I thought was acceptable experience.
It has that soap opera look...
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post #4 of 10 Old 03-09-2014, 11:08 AM
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I would set your Bluray player to output 1080p/24 and your ST60 to 60hz with motion smoothing set to weak. For me this was the best combination. I don't like judder either. Motion resolution is supposed to be higher at 96hz but I didn't notice a difference.
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post #5 of 10 Old 04-18-2014, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post

I would set your Bluray player to output 1080p/24 and your ST60 to 60hz with motion smoothing set to weak. For me this was the best combination. I don't like judder either. Motion resolution is supposed to be higher at 96hz but I didn't notice a difference.

 

 

So no one has trouble with this tv going blurry when the camera pans across the screen?


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post #6 of 10 Old 04-18-2014, 08:09 PM
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My vt60 gets the motion blur and jutter on my cable (dish). Blur ray isn't as bad. Any sporting event on cable that pans quickly when there is a sign in the background you can see it blur. I first notice during the Olympics. The the camera would follow a figure skater and the Sochi signs around the rinks wall would blur. Basketball the same way etc. A lot of it is source related I think.

Unless someone can recommend a good resolution test we can download. I don't know of any.
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post #7 of 10 Old 04-18-2014, 11:18 PM
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Motion judder is inherent to any content shot at 24 frames per second.
All movies are shot @ 24 fps.
The only exceptions for now are The Hobbit films in HFR/48 fps.
I'm not a fan of HFR or any oth the motion smoothing enhancements. I looks like early video tape to me.

For live tv it's certain that it arrives at your display at 1080i 60. What it's actually shot at could be several different formats.
At the display the signal gets up converted to the native resolution of the the display 1080p @ 60
This deinterlacing process is very effective. You can read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing

So why do you see so much motion blur on cable?
There are many variables that could be contributing to this.
I'm assuming that the connection from the cable box is all via hdmi.
The first thing I would check is the cable receiver is actually outputting HD.
I know this sounds ridiculous but you would be surprised at how many friends and families think they are getting HD but are actually watching SD.
Make sure you are not double scaling. This can happen when you have a surround receiver between your sources and your display.
Many if not all new receivers have their own scaling and enhancement capabilities. Make sure these are all off and you are just passing the signal through to the display.
Next turn off all enhancements on the display.

After all this you still have significant motion blur on live sports it's something that your provider is doing or not doing.
Likely too much compression.
I have seen awful HD especially from Uverse and WOW.
Comcast is hit or miss depending on the area and the channel.

It's possible that by using some of the displays enhancements you can get to an image you find acceptable.
But there is only so much you can do with poor quality content.

The 2nd Edition of the Spears & Munsil BD has great patterns for testing judder.
http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio/pattern-help-text/
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post #8 of 10 Old 04-19-2014, 06:53 AM
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I am also having this issue and it's driving me crazy. I'm using a HTPC with Intel graphic and I have it set at 60Hz and I see judder like crazy. Haven't came across a solution.
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post #9 of 10 Old 04-27-2014, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I actually found more judder when set to 96hz than when set to 60 on the tv.

 

As long as everyone elses is doing this, then at least it isn't my tv...but I can say for certain I'm not all that happy with it.  Oh well.


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post #10 of 10 Old 04-28-2014, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davemsc View Post

I actually found more judder when set to 96hz than when set to 60 on the tv.

As long as everyone elses is doing this, then at least it isn't my tv...but I can say for certain I'm not all that happy with it.  Oh well.

It is generally thought that Panasonic adds a small amount of motion smoothing when in 60 hz mode and fed a 24p source. That's probably why you see less judder. CNET mentions it in passing in their review. 96hz has more motion resolution in their tests, but 60hz mode adds some smoothing that they found pleasing.
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