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post #31 of 43 Old 04-23-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

my positive thought is with plasma gone, there might be enough ppl willing to pay a premium for a FALD led that ACTUALLY looks good in a dark room. I know it's possible to get 99% perfect uniformity, and that's good enough for me.

the negative thought is that this has been possible for years, and pretty much accomplished with the sharp elite already. so what's the problem? why isn't it already being made? and what worries me the most is that cheap edgelit led's with clouding are SO prominent in the market it makes me wonder if ppl really even care.
A few are back for 2014 from Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, and perhaps Vizio if the R series materializes.
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post #32 of 43 Old 04-23-2014, 11:16 AM
 
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I'm with ya.

my positive thought is with plasma gone, there might be enough ppl willing to pay a premium for a FALD led that ACTUALLY looks good in a dark room. I know it's possible to get 99% perfect uniformity, and that's good enough for me.

the negative thought is that this has been possible for years, and pretty much accomplished with the sharp elite already. so what's the problem? why isn't it already being made? and what worries me the most is that cheap edgelit led's with clouding are SO prominent in the market it makes me wonder if ppl really even care.
I hope some of those premium fiends will look at LG's OLEDs...we need more early adopters like me if you don't want to be confined to an LCD-only universe.
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post #33 of 43 Old 04-23-2014, 11:05 PM
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I have always purchased Panasonic Plasma. I have two of them right now but need a third one for a den. Now that they are gone, what is the best alternative. Samsung and LG look to be the only choice. Great picture on the Samsung, but every product I have purchased from them doesn't last very long.. Like my Washer, refrigerator and phone... All have crapped out.. Any suggestions? Thanks

Look for a local and gently used Pioneer Kuro on Craigslist or Fleabay and call it a day! You'd be surprised at all the good deals you'll find. Just takes some patience and persistence. Not to mention, you can check the service menus for panel hours, test for red tint, dead pixels etc. I'd take a properly functioning Kuro over anything out there today.

Just my 2 cents...

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post #34 of 43 Old 04-24-2014, 09:07 AM
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I think the reason higher quality LCD is not being attempted is that the big video display manufacturers know that most of the world simply isn't going to make much money--the third world will increasingly be able to buy crap LCD in places like jungles and the Tibetan mountains and the average workers in the US and Europe will have a lower and lower standard of living over the next 50 years.

If the only thing you can buy is crap quality and it doesn't cost much to produce crap quality then the video display manufacturers can still make money as the richer nations revert back to a lower standard of living.

If the video display manufacturers had wanted to spend money on advertising they could have kept a premium display market niche alive. If people will spend zillions on cars and yachts--don't tell me that the less affluent in large enough numbers wouldn't spend money on premium TVs.

One thing to consider though is the affluent customer who doesn't quite have the income it takes to buy a Rolls Royce or a nicel yacht--there just aren't many of those people left anymore.

We have more billionaires and millionaires than ever but people that make maybe 300 grand a year--there just aren't many of those people--their jobs have been eliminated--many make less and a good number make MUCH more but the income level that would care enough NOT to buy CRAP LCD but better quality in sizes of 70 inches and more--there just aren't as many of those people. I'm not saying that they don't exist--I'm saying there are less of them. ( My numbers may not be right--I'm basically talking about upper middle class--you supply the numbers if you know what they are).

Could they make a 70 inch Kuro plasma today? Of course! Could they make the Sharp elite--maybe the only non crap LCD in history? Of course. I think they're trying to level the playing field so the poor slobs who don't know any better don't feel bad cause everyone basically has the same kind of crap LCD TV--you don't have to keep up with the Jonses if all the Jonses has is a crap LCD.

People at higher income levels have dedicated projection home theater bat caves.

Everyone else in the future will just be gipped.

Plus the one thing you've got to remember is that if TV gets good enough nobody goes to the movie theater. Hollywood hasn't figured out a way to make up for the loss of income from real movie theaters by selling Blu-ray discs at a high enough number or making enough money by charging for downloads at a price level that is high enough with a high enough number of subscribers.

Most of the dumbo loving LCDers don't pay for download movies--they're already conditioned to do their best NOT to buy songs at 99 cents a pop.

How many are leaving cable for Netflix? How many are even now trying to leave Netflix--the move uniformily is to CHEAPER, CHEAPER...CHEAP! I think that proves that there is a large share of the public that is experiencing a lower standard of living.

I suppose whenever it becomes PROFITABLE even if they're LAZY to the point that it has to be SUPER cheap for them to implement and still bring in DOLLARS then Hollywood will drive the display industry to make improvements--they'll make whatever deals they need to make with the Chinese to make it happen.

We're just in one of those SLUMP periods when it comes to video displays.

Neraly all cars had a classic look in 1932. Cars in the late fourties looked like crap!

We went from even a 1973 Mustang with reduced performance to a 1974 Mustang II that was a complete joke!

We went from Quad in the seventies until many years later before there was any hint of surround sound.

I'm afraid we're doomed to a few years of LCD that sucks.

Buy your last plasma--take a chance on 55-inch Flat OLED--hang on and try not to puke while people around here tell you that it doesn't stink while you can smell it!
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post #35 of 43 Old 04-24-2014, 09:14 AM
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Art, don't hold back. Please tell us how the Freemasons, the Illuminati, and space aliens come into play into this conspiracy to deprive us of high quality displays also!
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post #36 of 43 Old 04-24-2014, 10:29 AM
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where I disagree with that theory is that manufacturers ARE trying to say their high end tv are better. ppl ARE trying to outdo their friends with the biggest, or thinnest, or smartest, or whatever the marketing is convincing them is the best at the moment.

99% of my friends believe whole-heartedly that a thin LED tv is the best, most advanced display technology ever created. the thought of paying the same amount for a plasma sounds ridiculous to them.

there may be a 'gap' in the market, where nobody is looking to spend ~6k for a tv. they either need it to be under 4k, or they are full on baller, and they're going spend the 100k for a 120" special order beast. but I don't believe this has anything to do with ppl accepting mediocrity. customers are still trying to buy the best they can afford, there's just too much information(marketing) leading them in the wrong direction.

and let's be honest, ppl want things cheaper, not crappier. there's a lot of low end TV's being sold because ppl are putting TV's in a lot of weird places. I have a tv in the bathroom. when purchasing I had two conditions to meet. it needed to be small enough to fit between studs and inside the wall, and it needed to be cheap enough that if I decided it was a dumb idea, I wasn't going to regret it forever. I also bought two of the cheapest 32" lcds on the market several years ago. yet, when I went shopping for the tv in my theatre room, the list consisted of zt60, vt60, f8500. NOTHING less than that would be considered. if I was going to compromise due to budget, it would be on size, not quality.

so I would argue, there is a demand and a desire for GOOD displays at home. what's lacking is an understanding of the technology. marketing has pushed most ppl into believe led is the pinnacle of picture quality, and ppl are actually spending large amounts of money on buying them. I know a lot of ppl that would rather spend 3grand on an LED than 2grand on an st60. to me that does not line up AT ALL with the theory that ppl just want cheap displays

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post #37 of 43 Old 04-24-2014, 09:20 PM
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I think that the display industry does want people to want crappier displays. You get more margin when you can make crap at a cheap price and then sell it to dumbos for more money.

They've been doing that quite nicely--that is what drives crap like edge-lit LCD.

Why do you think that you see less and less FALD? Because even some of the dumbos might be able to figure out that edge-lit sucks if they see a FALD set.

LCD sets have become so mediocre that even Wal-mart is bored by them!

The quality of LCD sets is so bad I think they're thinking about making more of them with built in 480p DVD players!
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post #38 of 43 Old 04-24-2014, 09:25 PM
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I've also had horrible experiences with every Samsung product i've ever owned (as well as friends and family and customers) and their customer service has been very poor, but the sad fact is that pretty much all modern electronics and devices and appliances are now made in Korea or China etc and are made like crap regardless of who the manufacturer is.

Ditto.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #39 of 43 Old 04-25-2014, 11:12 AM
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I think that the display industry does want people to want crappier displays. You get more margin when you can make crap at a cheap price and then sell it to dumbos for more money.

They've been doing that quite nicely--that is what drives crap like edge-lit LCD.

Why do you think that you see less and less FALD? Because even some of the dumbos might be able to figure out that edge-lit sucks if they see a FALD set.

LCD sets have become so mediocre that even Wal-mart is bored by them!

The quality of LCD sets is so bad I think they're thinking about making more of them with built in 480p DVD players!

that I agree with, but I don't think the MARKET wants crappier TV's. it's that companies see more profit in using marketing to convince customers their TV are superior instead of making superior TV's

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post #40 of 43 Old 04-25-2014, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

that I agree with, but I don't think the MARKET wants crappier TV's. it's that companies see more profit in using marketing to convince customers their TV are superior instead of making superior TV's

Funny, that's exactly the opposite that Panasonic was doing. They never produced enough educational marketing to convince consumers that their PDP's were superior TV's when compared to most LCD's.


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post #41 of 43 Old 04-25-2014, 12:41 PM
 
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I at least saw a Pioneer ad on TV before they pulled the plasma plug. Haven't had the same experience with Panasonic. At least with Panasonic they had a price that would have been more widely appealing to more income groups. Popular shows like Breaking Bad also gave the public subtle hints on the PQ superiority of plasma by way of the writing. Panasonic could've capitalized on this and incorporated it into an all-out advertising blitz, but that was an opportunity they failed to seize.
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post #42 of 43 Old 04-25-2014, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I at least saw a Pioneer ad on TV before they pulled the plasma plug. Haven't had the same experience with Panasonic. At least with Panasonic they had a price that would have been more widely appealing to more income groups. Popular shows like Breaking Bad also gave the public subtle hints on the PQ superiority of plasma by way of the writing. Panasonic could've capitalized on this and incorporated it into an all-out advertising blitz, but that was an opportunity they failed to seize.

I think Panasonic really was the last chance for a company to market what plasma does better. they were the only one left with a great plasma product and not a huge market share of the lcd market.

I mean if lg or Samsung touted the superiority of plasma, it would only be at the expense of their own lcd sales and reputation. how could you possible market the superiority of the f8500 without bashing the f8000 at the same time?

I mean all Panasonic had to do was set up an st60 next to the f8000, hx850, and maybe something from sharp, turn down the lights, pop in the dark knight and walk away.

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post #43 of 43 Old 04-25-2014, 01:58 PM
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Funny, that's exactly the opposite that Panasonic was doing. They never produced enough educational marketing to convince consumers that their PDP's were superior TV's when compared to most LCD's.


Ian

exactly! led is successful because of the marketing support behind it

why is it that the average joe is terrified of burn in, but has never heard of flashlighting/clouding?
why does everybody think lcd's have superior motion because of 120hz processing? at least marketing for plasmas tried to fight back on this with the 600hz thing, but it's hard to fight BS with more BS
most ppl think LED have the best contrast of any display on the market as well, but fail to realize the difference between ansi and on/off and straight up marketing

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