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post #1 of 11 Old 04-23-2014, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello All,

 

 I am a gamer that is in the market for a TV to hook up to my PC that has very low input lag. I recently bought the Sony KDL48W600B and it is absolutely wonderful as far as responsiveness goes. I seem to be able to pull off moves in Super Street Fighter IV better than ever. This TV is branded as part of Sony's "Gaming" series so it is no surprise. I only have two problems with this TV. One is that there is some minor flashlighting happening in the bottom corners on pitch black screens. The second is that, during play on dark screens, the backgrounds of the game worlds are kind of purple or greyed out. This is when a game is during "night" like in Elder Scrolls Online. I ran the game side by side with my Asus 27" monitor with the screens cloned and it looked much better in this regard on my Asus (although everything else about the picture looked better on the Sony KDL48W600B. I am wondering if I should replace the Sony with the same model and hope for better screen uniformity with my next set or if I should instead exchange it for LG's 50PB6600 Plasma set. I cannot find anything, after much searching, on the input lag time of the LG (or the Sony for that matter). I figure it would have a better picture because it is Plasma, though. What do you all think? Do you think the LG will perform well in games? I would be getting an extra 2" screen size too.

 

 Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

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post #2 of 11 Old 04-23-2014, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AzurePaladin77 View Post

Hello All,

 I am a gamer that is in the market for a TV to hook up to my PC that has very low input lag. I recently bought the Sony KDL48W600B and it is absolutely wonderful as far as responsiveness goes. I seem to be able to pull off moves in Super Street Fighter IV better than ever. This TV is branded as part of Sony's "Gaming" series so it is no surprise. I only have two problems with this TV. One is that there is some minor flashlighting happening in the bottom corners on pitch black screens. The second is that, during play on dark screens, the backgrounds of the game worlds are kind of purple or greyed out. This is when a game is during "night" like in Elder Scrolls Online. I ran the game side by side with my Asus 27" monitor with the screens cloned and it looked much better in this regard on my Asus (although everything else about the picture looked better on the Sony KDL48W600B. I am wondering if I should replace the Sony with the same model and hope for better screen uniformity with my next set or if I should instead exchange it for LG's 50PB6600 Plasma set. I cannot find anything, after much searching, on the input lag time of the LG (or the Sony for that matter). I figure it would have a better picture because it is Plasma, though. What do you all think? Do you think the LG will perform well in games? I would be getting an extra 2" screen size too.

 Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Haha. Since you've posted in the plasma forum, you will expect a biased answer from me! biggrin.gif

It looks like you're suffering from three issues. I used to have a Sony LCD too, so I think I know what you're talking about.

1. poor shadow detail
2. uniformity
3. purple tint

I was disappointed with black crush when I had the Sony LCD. I solved my problem by going with plasmas, but it's an issue a calibration is going to solve. I've seen calibrated Samsung EH6000 in Future Shop and it was keeping shadow detail really well, unlike any LCDs in store mode.

Uniformity, unfortunately, is something you will have to have lottery of. While all LCDs suffer from uniformity issues, edge-lits are the worst, so I'd steer you towards a direct-lit. Samsung has made a great stride with uniformity on edge-lits with the F series and the Sony benefits from their panel sharing as well. Still, choosing a good direct-lit is going to give you better chance with good uniformity. Unfortunately, they are hard to find among the Sony's unless you go really small. It's a good idea to go with the Samsung EH6000 as it has only slightly worse input lag than the Sony you have. (Your Sony 600B has 29ms Leo Bodnar, and the EH6000 has 35ms. Not sure what's up with the FH6000, an another direct-lit. Its input lag is surprisingly high but I don't if that's measured from PC input)

Purple tint is something common to the Samsung/Sony S-PVAs and with their poorer viewing angle than the IPS, its problem magnifies. I've actually convinced someone to switch from his Samsung F6300 to the Samsung E550 plasma and this is the first thing he noticed too. He said plasmas have pure black, no purple tinting.

I have to say this though. I know I'm supposed to be biased for plasmas but that LG isn't likely to be better than your Sony for several reasons. Yes, going with that LG plasma will solve ALL 3 problems you're currently having with your Sony, but you will gain new ones. First of all, while input lag figure for the 2014 LG plasmas haven't been disclosed like you said, LG plasmas traditionally had the worst input lag among all plasmas. I used to have an LG plasma too, so I'm painfully aware. The last year's model got something of 75ms (Leo Bodnar) and the one I had 55ms camera. (I measured it myself) So, if you want to go with plasmas, you really don't have a choice. It's Samsung or no plasma at all. You could look for an open box/refurbished Panasonic plasmas (just don't get the ST60) but as far as BNIB, Samsung will be your only choice. Just be sure if you really want a plasma. I have a Panasonic plasma and I love it for games more than the Sony LCD I had, but I would't be blind and say it's better in all aspects. It's a completely different animal from the LCDs, that's sure.
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post #3 of 11 Old 04-23-2014, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha. Since you've posted in the plasma forum, you will expect a biased answer from me! biggrin.gif

It looks like you're suffering from three issues. I used to have a Sony LCD too, so I think I know what you're talking about.

1. poor shadow detail
2. uniformity
3. purple tint

I was disappointed with black crush when I had the Sony LCD. I solved my problem by going with plasmas, but it's an issue a calibration is going to solve. I've seen calibrated Samsung EH6000 in Future Shop and it was keeping shadow detail really well, unlike any LCDs in store mode.

Uniformity, unfortunately, is something you will have to have lottery of. While all LCDs suffer from uniformity issues, edge-lits are the worst, so I'd steer you towards a direct-lit. Samsung has made a great stride with uniformity on edge-lits with the F series and the Sony benefits from their panel sharing as well. Still, choosing a good direct-lit is going to give you better chance with good uniformity. Unfortunately, they are hard to find among the Sony's unless you go really small. It's a good idea to go with the Samsung EH6000 as it has only slightly worse input lag than the Sony you have. (Your Sony 600B has 29ms Leo Bodnar, and the EH6000 has 35ms. Not sure what's up with the FH6000, an another direct-lit. Its input lag is surprisingly high but I don't if that's measured from PC input)

Purple tint is something common to the Samsung/Sony S-PVAs and with their poorer viewing angle than the IPS, its problem magnifies. I've actually convinced someone to switch from his Samsung F6300 to the Samsung E550 plasma and this is the first thing he noticed too. He said plasmas have pure black, no purple tinting.

I have to say this though. I know I'm supposed to be biased for plasmas but that LG isn't likely to be better than your Sony for several reasons. Yes, going with that LG plasma will solve ALL 3 problems you're currently having with your Sony, but you will gain new ones. First of all, while input lag figure for the 2014 LG plasmas haven't been disclosed like you said, LG plasmas traditionally had the worst input lag among all plasmas. I used to have an LG plasma too, so I'm painfully aware. The last year's model got something of 75ms (Leo Bodnar) and the one I had 55ms camera. (I measured it myself) So, if you want to go with plasmas, you really don't have a choice. It's Samsung or no plasma at all. You could look for an open box/refurbished Panasonic plasmas (just don't get the ST60) but as far as BNIB, Samsung will be your only choice. Just be sure if you really want a plasma. I have a Panasonic plasma and I love it for games more than the Sony LCD I had, but I would't be blind and say it's better in all aspects. It's a completely different animal from the LCDs, that's sure.


Thank you very much, KOF. Your response was very informative. I am now leaning toward the UN50EH6000FXZA. I looked it up and while it is $100 more, they at least have it at Best Buy (where I bought the Sony) so I can exchange it for one, luckily. If I were to go plasma, which set around $650 do you recommend? I've seen good things said about the PN51F5300AFXZA, but displaylag.com rates it's input lag at 47ms, which seems a bit high (though they say that's average). What do you think? Is it still a good purchase and will I notice the lag in fighting games and such? I can get black out shades for my room so light won't be an issue.

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post #4 of 11 Old 04-24-2014, 02:47 AM - Thread Starter
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 I saw the Toshiba 50L2400U on Best Buy's website. Does anyone know if it has a decent contrast ratio/black levels and low input lag?

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post #5 of 11 Old 04-24-2014, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AzurePaladin77 View Post


Thank you very much, KOF. Your response was very informative. I am now leaning toward theUN50EH6000FXZA. I looked it up and while it is $100 more, they at least have it at Best Buy (where I bought the Sony) so I can exchange it for one, luckily. If I were to go plasma, which set around $650 do you recommend? I've seen good things said about the PN51F5300AFXZA, but displaylag.com rates it's input lag at 47ms, which seems a bit high (though they say that's average). What do you think? Is it still a good purchase and will I notice the lag in fighting games and such? I can get black out shades for my room so light won't be an issue.

There is a discrepancy about input lag measurements from the Leo Bodnar tester, so comparison between LCDs and plasmas are made much more difficult.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag

HDTVTest explains very well why plasmas measure worse but still perform relatively well. That's why I trust camera numbers more than the Leo Bodnar.

Displaylag.com states the F5300 having 47ms (Leo Bodnar) and the F5500 38ms. The reason the F5500 gets lower input lag than the F5300 must be attributed to the F5300 having more advanced CMS than the F5500. (The F5500 however has 3D, unlike the F5300) So, for that reason alone, I recommend you spending a few more to get the F5300 instead of the F5500. According to the HDTVTest, they also measured the H5000 plasma as 38ms Leo Bodnar and 16ms camera capture, so the F5500 must also be around that ballpark. Still won't hold a candle to your W600b which gets 29ms Leo Bodnar, but still, far closer. My Panasonic S60 plasma has 32ms (Leo Bodnar) btw and it's largely very responsive.

http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/toshiba/l1400u

While I haven't found a professional review for the 2400u, I did for the 1400u, which I assume should have similar picture attributes as the 2400u. (The upper LCD models largely adds more advanced 120hz/240hz interpolation options) 50 inch LCD panel, I'm very familiar with, as that's been used for Samsung/Sony products many times. It's not Samsung/Sony S-LCD, but the Taiwanese AUO/Chimei VA panels are still respectable and as you can see from review, the Toshiba has wonderful MLL. (0.009 fL) Judging from its great black level, it must be a non-PSA panel. The Sony you have btw is a PSA panel. PSA panels typically have slightly worse black level, but in trade, gets better response time, so for gamers, PSA panel is a better choice. It however seems marred with uniformity problems, so I'd make sure you'll be getting a direct-lit instead of an edge-lit.
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post #6 of 11 Old 04-24-2014, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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 Thanks again for the info, KOF. I am now just thinking that I should stick with the Sony KDL48W600B. The Samsung EH6000 seems to have poor black levels, and as I just sold my old TV because of really poor contrast ratio I don't want to jump back aboard that boat. The Toshiba 1400u apparently has really poor motion blur for games, so if the 2400u has similar performance with motion blur than that is out too. I found a site that lists the Samsung F5300 and F5500 models as having input lag up to 100ms, and if that is accurate than I'm going to have to passon those too. Below is a link to the site. Perhaps I should just get used to the uniformity and purple tint issues with my Sony.

 

http://*******************.com/plasmatv/samsung-plasmatv.html

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 Thanks again for the info KOF. The  Samsung EH6000 apparently has poor black levels. I just sold my old TV to upgrade to a new one and one of the reasons was it's poor contrast ratio so I don't want to jump back aboard that boat. The Toshiba 1400u appears to suffer from motion blur in games and so I guess the 2400u is out for me as well as that set might also have that problem. The Samsung F5300 and F5500 have input lag listed as high as 100ms on a review site (sorry, not allowed to link it here, I tried). I am thinking perhaps I should just get used to the uniformity and purple tint issues I'm having with my Sony KDL48W600B and stick with it.

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post #8 of 11 Old 04-25-2014, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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There is a discrepancy about input lag measurements from the Leo Bodnar tester, so comparison between LCDs and plasmas are made much more difficult.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag

HDTVTest explains very well why plasmas measure worse but still perform relatively well. That's why I trust camera numbers more than the Leo Bodnar.

Displaylag.com states the F5300 having 47ms (Leo Bodnar) and the F5500 38ms. The reason the F5500 gets lower input lag than the F5300 must be attributed to the F5300 having more advanced CMS than the F5500. (The F5500 however has 3D, unlike the F5300) So, for that reason alone, I recommend you spending a few more to get the F5300 instead of the F5500. According to the HDTVTest, they also measured the H5000 plasma as 38ms Leo Bodnar and 16ms camera capture, so the F5500 must also be around that ballpark. Still won't hold a candle to your W600b which gets 29ms Leo Bodnar, but still, far closer. My Panasonic S60 plasma has 32ms (Leo Bodnar) btw and it's largely very responsive.

http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/toshiba/l1400u

While I haven't found a professional review for the 2400u, I did for the 1400u, which I assume should have similar picture attributes as the 2400u. (The upper LCD models largely adds more advanced 120hz/240hz interpolation options) 50 inch LCD panel, I'm very familiar with, as that's been used for Samsung/Sony products many times. It's not Samsung/Sony S-LCD, but the Taiwanese AUO/Chimei VA panels are still respectable and as you can see from review, the Toshiba has wonderful MLL. (0.009 fL) Judging from its great black level, it must be a non-PSA panel. The Sony you have btw is a PSA panel. PSA panels typically have slightly worse black level, but in trade, gets better response time, so for gamers, PSA panel is a better choice. It however seems marred with uniformity problems, so I'd make sure you'll be getting a direct-lit instead of an edge-lit.

 

Is the EH6000 PSA? You mentioned that Samsung panels often have the purple tint like Sonys do, would that be the case with the EH6000 as well? It is listed as having 5,000,000:1 contrast ratio which sounds fantastic for an LED LCD. Customer reviews seem to say the picture is great, but a couple "professional" reviews stated black levels on the EH6000 aren't great. If it doesn't have the purple tint, and has black levels at least on par with the KDL48W600B (which has very good black levels with the 'black enhancer' on, but is rated as 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio), then I would make the switch to the Samsung EH6000.

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Haha. Since you've posted in the plasma forum, you will expect a biased answer from me! biggrin.gif

It looks like you're suffering from three issues. I used to have a Sony LCD too, so I think I know what you're talking about.

1. poor shadow detail
2. uniformity
3. purple tint

I was disappointed with black crush when I had the Sony LCD. I solved my problem by going with plasmas, but it's an issue a calibration is going to solve. I've seen calibrated Samsung EH6000 in Future Shop and it was keeping shadow detail really well, unlike any LCDs in store mode.

Uniformity, unfortunately, is something you will have to have lottery of. While all LCDs suffer from uniformity issues, edge-lits are the worst, so I'd steer you towards a direct-lit. Samsung has made a great stride with uniformity on edge-lits with the F series and the Sony benefits from their panel sharing as well. Still, choosing a good direct-lit is going to give you better chance with good uniformity. Unfortunately, they are hard to find among the Sony's unless you go really small. It's a good idea to go with the Samsung EH6000 as it has only slightly worse input lag than the Sony you have. (Your Sony 600B has 29ms Leo Bodnar, and the EH6000 has 35ms. Not sure what's up with the FH6000, an another direct-lit. Its input lag is surprisingly high but I don't if that's measured from PC input)

Purple tint is something common to the Samsung/Sony S-PVAs and with their poorer viewing angle than the IPS, its problem magnifies. I've actually convinced someone to switch from his Samsung F6300 to the Samsung E550 plasma and this is the first thing he noticed too. He said plasmas have pure black, no purple tinting.

I have to say this though. I know I'm supposed to be biased for plasmas but that LG isn't likely to be better than your Sony for several reasons. Yes, going with that LG plasma will solve ALL 3 problems you're currently having with your Sony, but you will gain new ones. First of all, while input lag figure for the 2014 LG plasmas haven't been disclosed like you said, LG plasmas traditionally had the worst input lag among all plasmas. I used to have an LG plasma too, so I'm painfully aware. The last year's model got something of 75ms (Leo Bodnar) and the one I had 55ms camera. (I measured it myself) So, if you want to go with plasmas, you really don't have a choice. It's Samsung or no plasma at all. You could look for an open box/refurbished Panasonic plasmas (just don't get the ST60) but as far as BNIB, Samsung will be your only choice. Just be sure if you really want a plasma. I have a Panasonic plasma and I love it for games more than the Sony LCD I had, but I would't be blind and say it's better in all aspects. It's a completely different animal from the LCDs, that's sure.

 

Does the Samsung EH6000 have the purple tint that the Sonys do? Also, it's contrast ratio is listed at 5,000,000:1 which is great for a LED LCD. Do think black levels would be an issue? Customer reviews tend to say it has a great picture, while a couple professional reviews stated the black levels aren't great. The Sony KDL48W600B I have is rated at 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio but has great black levels with the black enhancer on 'high'. I'd make the switch to the Samsung EH6000 if it has decent black levels and doesn't have the purple tint my Sony has, I like the fact it's direct lit and 2" bigger.

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post #10 of 11 Old 04-25-2014, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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 By the way, sorry if I'm basically posting doubles.. I've had trouble posting because the messages had, or quoted, HTML links.

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post #11 of 11 Old 04-25-2014, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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 I came across the new Samsung UN48H5500 as well. Does this improve upon the older EH6000?

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