Was going from a Panny VT50 to a Sammy F8500 a bad idea? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 04-28-2014, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I was left with little choice in the matter but I can't help but wonder if I made the right move.

I purchased the 55in VT50 in June '12 and several months ago got severe yellow blobs. Long story short, there are no panels left and I was offered an exchange. Since BB doesn't carry the VT50 or 55in VT60 anymore, I got credited $400 less than what I paid for the set two years ago which I thought was fair.

This is was my first plasma set but it converted me and since I was stuck with store credit, I decided to buy the only high quality plasma BB carries, the 8500. I ended up playing an extra $800 to get the 60in since 51in is a downgrade and a 51in LCD in the store looked really small.


Was this a good call given the situation? Will I be disappointed in the F5800 picture compared to my VT50? Will a professional ISF calibration close the gap enough? (I mainly watch in a dim lit room so I am paranoid about the black levels on the Samsung)

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post #2 of 51 Old 04-28-2014, 08:19 PM
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I think most people would agree that the 8500 is a decent upgrade over the VT50. Relax and enjoy.
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post #3 of 51 Old 04-28-2014, 08:36 PM
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The F8500 is a great replacement for the VT50. It will be brighter, and the image is much crisper than a VT50.

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post #4 of 51 Old 04-28-2014, 08:38 PM
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I also had a vt50 and now also own a f8500 I like the fact it's sharper, gets brighter, and also just like having the ability to use the evolution kit
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post #5 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 05:34 AM
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The VT50 has reference color the F8500 does not, black levels are pretty close although the F8500 blacks degrade with any content on the screen. But overall the sets are comparable.
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post #6 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, I feel better about my decisions although I'm disappointed the blacks aren't better. I was happy with the VT50 picture using my own settings but would it be worth it to get a professional ISF calibration for the F8500? Would it maybe close the gap in the color and black level areas enough to not notice?

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post #7 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 05:51 AM
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IMO a pro calibration would greatly improve the F8500 picture, the color can be improved but can't be made reference without an external video processor. You would also see some improvement in shadow detail. As far as the black levels go you may not notice a substancial difference depending on your viewing environment. I wouldn't fret so much, get the set and then decide on a pro calibration, you may be perfectly happy with the OTB settings.

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post #8 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice That Jaw View Post

OK, I feel better about my decisions although I'm disappointed the blacks aren't better. I was happy with the VT50 picture using my own settings but would it be worth it to get a professional ISF calibration for the F8500? Would it maybe close the gap in the color and black level areas enough to not notice?

The 8500 should have equal or better black levels than the VT50.
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post #9 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 07:50 AM
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The F8500 contrast ratio degrades rapidly as APL increases

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post #10 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 08:01 AM
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If you had Best Buy's extended warranty why did you get back $400 less then what you paid?
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post #11 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

^^When there is no content on the screen

Don't think many people would agree with you on that. Quit trying to scare the poor guy.
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post #12 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 08:04 AM
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I'm not trying to scare the guy stating documented calibration facts, you can choose to ignore them if you want but the fact remains the F8500 blacks float it is part of the Samsung panel driving method.
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post #13 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I'm not trying to scare the guy stating documented calibration facts, you can choose to ignore them if you want but the fact remains the F8500 blacks float it is part of the Samsung panel driving method.

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post #14 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 08:15 AM
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To the OP I hope you enjoy your new set smile.gif

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post #15 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 10:03 AM
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I don't get the $400 less as Eric mentioned. BB warranty is supposed to provide you with a comparable replacement - which in your case is a 8500. I had a BB warranty for a Sony XBR4 that died and was provided with a store credit that was equal to the retail price of the display at the time I bought it - which allowed me to get into a better display since tech and prices had improved over a few years. I would speak to the manager and complain about the deal - there is no way you should be out $400. Also, Chunon is right on target with his comments, well documented on numerous threads and by pro calibrators. Regardless, in your situation I would be all over a 8500 - nice display. Good luck.
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post #16 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

The VT50 has reference color the F8500 does not, black levels are pretty close although the F8500 blacks degrade with any content on the screen. But overall the sets are comparable.

Interesting. Never knew that. The way so many others on UK forums went on about it (personal opinions) they made it out to be it was a huge upgrade.
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post #17 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 12:37 PM
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Interesting. Never knew that. The way so many others on UK forums went on about it (personal opinions) they made it out to be it was a huge upgrade.

Depends on what you value in a picture, for me it is color accuracy, consistent black level. Others have other priorities. In no way am I saying the F8500 isnt a great set but to my eyes it doesnt destroy the VT50as some have mantained. IMO the VT50VT60 does all those things better.

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post #18 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice That Jaw View Post

I was left with little choice in the matter but I can't help but wonder if I made the right move.

I purchased the 55in VT50 in June '12 and several months ago got severe yellow blobs. Long story short, there are no panels left and I was offered an exchange. Since BB doesn't carry the VT50 or 55in VT60 anymore, I got credited $400 less than what I paid for the set two years ago which I thought was fair.

This is was my first plasma set but it converted me and since I was stuck with store credit, I decided to buy the only high quality plasma BB carries, the 8500. I ended up playing an extra $800 to get the 60in since 51in is a downgrade and a 51in LCD in the store looked really small.


Was this a good call given the situation? Will I be disappointed in the F5800 picture compared to my VT50? Will a professional ISF calibration close the gap enough? (I mainly watch in a dim lit room so I am paranoid about the black levels on the Samsung)

The VT50 will have a bit better blacks and they will not float like the F8500's do. You can turn off the Dark Optimizer which well help the issue (although not eliminate it) but I think that doubles the MLL. More or less a trade off. The VT50 will also have an edge in color once properly calibrated.

The F8500 will be brighter and have better video processing for 720p and 1080i material (assuming you are not already using a dedicated video processor).

I would just try the F8500 and see what happens as you can always return it if unhappy. Most people who buy the F8500 seem to be happy with it. It's definitely the best brand new plasma you can buy in stores with Panasonic out of the game.

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post #19 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Depends on what you value in a picture, for me it is color accuracy, consistent black level. Others have other priorities. In no way am I saying the F8500 isnt a great set but to my eyes it doesnt destroy the VT50as some have mantained. IMO the VT50VT60 does all those things better.

I pretty much value everything except daytime since I never get to see TV during the day. So thankful for that. That and I now have a terrible terrible OCD for black levels thats uncontrollably obsessed. frown.gif

I see what you mean about the colour tracking. http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps64f8500-201305012945.htm

It's not awful but it seems a lot of the points are under saturated. I've noticed a huge percentage of Samsung's seem to suffer this.
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post #20 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

If you had Best Buy's extended warranty why did you get back $400 less then what you paid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

I don't get the $400 less as Eric mentioned. BB warranty is supposed to provide you with a comparable replacement - which in your case is a 8500. I had a BB warranty for a Sony XBR4 that died and was provided with a store credit that was equal to the retail price of the display at the time I bought it - which allowed me to get into a better display since tech and prices had improved over a few years. I would speak to the manager and complain about the deal - there is no way you should be out $400. Also, Chunon is right on target with his comments, well documented on numerous threads and by pro calibrators. Regardless, in your situation I would be all over a 8500 - nice display. Good luck.


So the reason why I got $400 less is because Best Buy gives you a sort of Blue Book value on the TV. Since my set is 2 years old and there is no other 55in plasma TV sold at BB that would qualify as a comparable product, they gave me the value of my VT50 at today's current value which was $1500. I spent $1900 on the set in June '12.

The F8500 51in is somewhat comparable but I thought the 51in LCD's they had on the floor were way to small so my only other option was the 60in, which is a few hundred more than I paid for my VT50 in '12.


Was I really supposed to get the full value back? That seems to good to be true.

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post #21 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ice That Jaw View Post


So the reason why I got $400 less is because Best Buy gives you a sort of Blue Book value on the TV. Since my set is 2 years old and there is no other 55in plasma TV sold at BB that would qualify as a comparable product, they gave me the value of my VT50 at today's current value which was $1500. I spent $1900 on the set in June '12.

The F8500 51in is somewhat comparable but I thought the 51in LCD's they had on the floor were way to small so my only other option was the 60in, which is a few hundred more than I paid for my VT50 in '12.


Was I really supposed to get the full value back? That seems to good to be true.
You sure were suppose to get the full value back or a TV that equals the same value or the same specs. The manager even has the authority to offer you a TV with a higher value if it would be equal in specs without charging you the difference but at the least you should have gotten exactly what you spent to use on another TV.
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post #22 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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You sure were suppose to get the full value back or a TV that equals the same value or the same specs. The manager even has the authority to offer you a TV with a higher value if it would be equal in specs without charging you the difference but at the least you should have gotten exactly what you spent to use on another TV.

No ****.

I asked for the manager when I was there but it was late in the evening and he wasn't there. How would you recommend I approach the situation given the fact that I already paid for the balance getting the F8500 and it's scheduled for delivery this Friday. (they will take my VT50 back)

What would be the best way to convince the manager without resorting to demands?

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post #23 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 06:45 PM
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For $400 you are worried about pressing what you are entitled to? Press your case and then some - blue book value is a staff person telling you something wrong - my XBR was 4 years old when it died and I got full price asy credit.

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post #24 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 06:59 PM
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I have the Geek Squad warranty on my VT60 and indeed you are supposed to get the full price of what you paid in such an event. It clearly states it in your agreement.

Simply go up there and talk to the manager in person about what happened and how policy was not followed. They will credit you.

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post #25 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 07:08 PM
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I just pulled up their terms and service and they can offer you current market value set by them but I will argue what they are giving, especially since you are spending so much more.

I would speak to the manager, especially since yoyu are still spending more money. He very well has the authority to give you full value.
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Interesting, did this change as of late? I could have sworn reading on mine it had to be full price replacement, but maybe I was dreaming.

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post #27 of 51 Old 04-29-2014, 11:05 PM
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I think everybody is forgetting something here...

I would DEFINITELY take a new f8500 over a malfunctioning vt50. and really, those are your only choices.


when I bought my f8500, I had gone in with the explicit plan of buying a vt50. I unfortunately(or fortunately?) was about a week late, and could not find stock. shortly after that reviews on the new panny's came out, and it was clear that the vt60, and in some ways even the st60 were superior anyway. so I was going to wait for those. while I waited, salesman after salesman directed me towards the f8500. by the time the st60 arrived, the f8500 was the tv to beat. by the time the vt60's arrived, I preferred the the f8500 to the vt60.

I'm not sure what the deal is with color, until this thread I had not heard that calibrated color on the f8500 was an issue, and I have not experienced any issues with color reproduction on mine. color is not a sensitive topic of mine though. I can't think of a tv that had color that really bothered me.

the blacks on the f8500 are great, but do come with 'crt-like behaviour'. one thing that plasma is usually quite good at is holding black levels as APL increases. this is something that I never cared about, and I definitely enjoyed CRT's ability to get black with dark content more than plasma's ability to hold black with bright content. unfortunately it's not like the f8500 get's blacker with dark content though, it's more like 'about equal' with dark content and then rises to a significantly higher level with bright content. I would argue, this doesn't affect viewing pleasure though, as you simply can't tell blacks aren't black when the rest of the content is so bright. so it's a trade off I'm happy to make, if the other option is to have elevated blacks levels all the time.

so, all in all, you should be alright. focus on the fact you're getting a larger screen, a brighter picture, and similar blacks with great color and the most resistance to IR I've experienced on a plasma.

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post #28 of 51 Old 04-30-2014, 12:17 AM
 
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^Not your only choices, especially since Ice That Jaw is coming from a 55" panel. That's the magic # for getting an OLED if you have the bills to grab it. I would recommend it 100 times over any plasma if you're content with 55 inches.
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post #29 of 51 Old 04-30-2014, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Interesting, did this change as of late? I could have sworn reading on mine it had to be full price replacement, but maybe I was dreaming.

From their terms:

- At our sole discretion, we have the option of (1) repairing your product, (2) replacing it with a product of like
kind and quality and of comparable performance, or (3) reimbursing you for replacement with a voucher or
gift card equal to the product’s current market value as determined by us, not to exceed the original
purchase price of your product, including taxes.

http://www.geeksquad.com/protection-plans/terms-and-conditions.aspx
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post #30 of 51 Old 04-30-2014, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

From their terms:

- At our sole discretion, we have the option of (1) repairing your product, (2) replacing it with a product of like
kind and quality and of comparable performance, or (3) reimbursing you for replacement with a voucher or
gift card equal to the product’s current market value as determined by us, not to exceed the original
purchase price of your product, including taxes.

http://www.geeksquad.com/protection-plans/terms-and-conditions.aspx


So I wonder if these new terms were amended after I bought the TV and if I could use that as leverage to bargain for the full price. The current market value they gave me wasn't made up by the customer service person. It was coming from their internal system which is why I am thinking I may get shot down completely.


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^Not your only choices, especially since Ice That Jaw is coming from a 55" panel. That's the magic # for getting an OLED if you have the bills to grab it. I would recommend it 100 times over any plasma if you're content with 55 inches.

55in was the sweet spot me. I'm just not content for paying more than 2x the money I spent on my VT50, which happened to be the most I ever spent on a TV at that point. lol

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