What killed Plasma? - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 418 Old 07-23-2014, 07:26 AM
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Back when I bought my Kuro it was on display at Best Buy and it actually didn't look to good sitting next to all the torch mode LCDs on the brightly lit sales floor, I actually went home without anything but came back and bought it the next day.

I'm guessing a lot of potential Plasma sales were lost due to this type of arrangement.
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post #392 of 418 Old 07-23-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathesar View Post
Back when I bought my Kuro it was on display at Best Buy and it actually didn't look to good sitting next to all the torch mode LCDs on the brightly lit sales floor, I actually went home without anything but came back and bought it the next day.

I'm guessing a lot of potential Plasma sales were lost due to this type of arrangement.
That's the problem with the big box stores. Best Buy has their Magnolia room where they have controlled lighting, which to some degree favors Plasma's, but they only have the highest end sets on display there. Retailers like Six Ave Electronics, Electronic Expo etc.. had several demo rooms where you could view most of their plasma offerings under more ideal conditions. Unfortunately they over extended themselves, couldn't compete with the likes of Amazon, Costco and Sam's Club, and have either down sized to one or two locations, or are no longer around anymore .


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post #393 of 418 Old 07-23-2014, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
I put all the blame on a horrible lack of marketing. Maybe a few ads on TV and the internet mentioning the professional reviews and the shoot out results using a well known and respected personality like say Jay Leno or Tom Hanks.
I can't remember much of the discussion in this thread… Why was there a lack of marketing. I sometimes saw Sky Broadcasting adverts for Smart Viera TV's before a film started. It was rare.

Why did they feel it didn't need any huge marketing?



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post #394 of 418 Old 07-23-2014, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post
I can't remember much of the discussion in this thread… Why was there a lack of marketing. I sometimes saw Sky Broadcasting adverts for Smart Viera TV's before a film started. It was rare.

Why did they feel it didn't need any huge marketing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtvXAM65l8E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUiFaPmC1R0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn0PawM0Wlw
Remember the Kia ad during the NBA all star game a couple of years ago where they had a guy jump over Kia Optima and slam dunk a basketball? I bet we all remember that ad. That's the kind of stuff Pansonic needed to do . Slap the customers in the face with your message.
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post #395 of 418 Old 07-23-2014, 10:30 AM
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Why didn't they though? Why did they feel it needed hardly any advertising?

Why didn't anybody say, we're doing something wrong here… Lots of companies advertise things causing the public to want things they don't need. Look at Apple.

Last edited by xvfx; 07-23-2014 at 10:33 AM.
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post #396 of 418 Old 07-23-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post
Why didn't they though? Why did they feel it needed hardly any advertising?

Why didn't anybody say, we're doing something wrong here… Lots of companies advertise things causing the public to want things they don't need. Look at Apple.
It wasn't just Panasonic. It was the Japanese. But Panasonic was the largest producer of PDP's, which lead to their demise.

Quote:
The Japanese companies were probably a bit sentimental, underestimated their rivals and didn't form a competitive strategy.
Kun Soo Lee, analyst, IHS iSuppli



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post #397 of 418 Old 07-23-2014, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Remember the Kia ad during the NBA all star game a couple of years ago where they had a guy jump over Kia Optima and slam dunk a basketball? I bet we all remember that ad. That's the kind of stuff Pansonic needed to do . Slap the customers in the face with your message.
Speaking of in the face, this was a pretty good Panasonic Plasma ad:

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post #398 of 418 Old 07-23-2014, 06:11 PM
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Yep. All those commercials looked great on this 26" LED Vizio I use as a computer monitor...Hard to sell TVs using ads on TV I guess!


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post #399 of 418 Old 07-24-2014, 03:09 PM
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Heh! I totally forgot about that ad.
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post #400 of 418 Old 07-26-2014, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post
I read somewhere that a substantial percentage of people that buy a 1080p HDTV never or rarely watch high definition. Many of those same people that own 1080p HDTV's, also own DVD/BluRay Players, but never rent or buy a BluRay movie. Go figure...
Why in the hell you would spend money on a player and not use it for anything worthwhile, I'll never get. It's like buying an expensive car and driving it in first gear, what the hell is the point after spending all of the cash? And if you're the kind of person who actually spends money on it in the first place, you'd think you'd know what it is and how it works. My HDTV is pretty low end, but even on it, HDTV looks so good that I can barely watch SD anymore, and I haven't even calibrated it yet. It took a few days for Amazon to get me they HDMI cables, and it looked like crap until then. And it's a pretty cheap LED set too. Likewise with the Blu-ray. I have friends who're baffled by my willingness to buy something on Blu when and upscaled DVD "looks the same."
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post #401 of 418 Old 07-26-2014, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138 View Post
I have friends who're baffled by my willingness to buy something on Blu when and upscaled DVD "looks the same."
What you need to do is get a copy of the same movie in Blu-Ray and play it for them. You'll probably hear them say something like..oh sh...t!

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post #402 of 418 Old 07-26-2014, 04:03 PM
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None of the stores like Best Buy pushed the sale of plasmas. I owned a Pioneer and two Panasonic plasma sets - pictures were incredible after a little tune-up! I remember being in Best Buy and listening to a sales person telling a potential plasma customer about burn in issues and how LCD sets don't have that issue and were much brighter!
When ever I told a friend that I owned a plasma screen the first thing they would ask is "Aren't you worried about the burn in?" THERE AIN'T NO BURN IN!
Also, I believe that the stores made a higher profit margin selling LCDs.

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post #403 of 418 Old 07-26-2014, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjenkins95 View Post
None of the stores like Best Buy pushed the sale of plasmas. I owned a Pioneer and two Panasonic plasma sets - pictures were incredible after a little tune-up! I remember being in Best Buy and listening to a sales person telling a potential plasma customer about burn in issues and how LCD sets don't have that issue and were much brighter!
When ever I told a friend that I owned a plasma screen the first thing they would ask is "Aren't you worried about the burn in?" THERE AIN'T NO BURN IN!
Also, I believe that the stores made a higher profit margin selling LCDs.
Yes there is burn in. My Pioneer Kuro 141fd has what looks to be an AT&T logo burnt in on the bottom left corner (from the previous owner) and my brother's Panasonic VT60 has the TNT logo burnt in on the lower right corner. The Panasonics in particular are highly susceptible to it. I calibrated it via the user menu (not ControlCal) and I could see the menu burnt in on the screen. Had to run screen wipe function for 5 hours to remove it.

The potential for burn in is there.
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post #404 of 418 Old 07-26-2014, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138 View Post
Why in the hell you would spend money on a player and not use it for anything worthwhile, I'll never get. It's like buying an expensive car and driving it in first gear, what the hell is the point after spending all of the cash?
well

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Drive a Honda Accord/Toyota Camry compared to a Mercedes E class/ BMW 5 series

big difference....even in first gear


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post #405 of 418 Old 07-27-2014, 04:41 AM
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I just bought my f8500 plasma TV and was going through my manual. I will note down the 2 points mentioned under the warranty section.

1.warranty does not cover any damage caused by image retention.

2.burn-in is not covered by the warranty.

No wonder plasmas are dead. How can you blame consumers for not buying plasmas with such user instructions ?
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post #406 of 418 Old 07-27-2014, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

What say you?


.
I can tell you exactly what killed Plasma. This is coming from someone who owns one. (Panasonic S60)

The terrible Line-bleeding
The Phosphor trails. Even after over 2000 hours of use.
The annoying buzzing from the back.
Burn-in (Not covered by warranty).
Dithering in black areas.
The giant mirror that is the screen.
The heat output.

I can see why companies are dropping this just as fast as consumers are. LCD may have issues but I've never owned a TV with this much wrong with it. How it lasted this long is beyond me.
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post #407 of 418 Old 07-27-2014, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjenkins95 View Post
THERE AIN'T NO BURN IN!

Oh you better believe there is. I have a Windows task bar, the Google Chrome address bar and some World of Warcraft interface that will prove you wrong.
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post #408 of 418 Old 07-27-2014, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post
Was it ABL aka Dirty Whites?


What say you?

The primary reason accounting for at least 90% of the decision to move away from plasma was the inability for the technology to move up to 4k resolution.

Regardless of the fact that 4k is actually physically useless (meaning the human eye cannot physically see the additional pixels) at distances of I think it was greater than 6 feet (there is an actual study done on it, so its not just numbers pulled out of one's ass) for screen sizes below 70" (i.e. below what the vast majority of consumers purchase), 4k is easily marketable to the mass of stupidity that is the common consumer. It is much harder to promote the qualities of plasma colors or the capabilities of new technologies like OLED than it is to say "4k is the future, look it has 4 times the pixels of HD it is SUPER HD". On top of that, they don't really have to put much into research and development, since they just use the same technology to make 4 panels that they then merge etc etc (obviously it isn't that simple, but the concept itself rings true).

So because this makes 4k the "future" and they can't reasonably make 4k plasmas (it is physically possible, as I think panasonic showed, but not even close to cost effective), the technology is being shelved.
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post #409 of 418 Old 07-27-2014, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenightmare View Post
I can tell you exactly what killed Plasma. This is coming from someone who owns one. (Panasonic S60)

The terrible Line-bleeding
The Phosphor trails. Even after over 2000 hours of use.
The annoying buzzing from the back.
Burn-in (Not covered by warranty).
Dithering in black areas.
The giant mirror that is the screen.
The heat output.

I can see why companies are dropping this just as fast as consumers are. LCD may have issues but I've never owned a TV with this much wrong with it. How it lasted this long is beyond me.


I'm sorry to hear that. The S60 has received great reviews by pro calibrators and many AVS members to boot. I agree my S60 is reflective due to the lack of a filter, but my room isn't all that bright and I have controlled lighting. As far as those other problems, the dithering is minor and line bleed hasn't been an issue. I haven't experienced any real IR to speak of, even with sport tickers, there is no noticeable buzzing unless I'm on right on top of my set and I don't have an excessive heat problem. I'm certain that if you aren't happy with your TV there are plenty of people on this forum who would be willing to make an offer to buy it from you.

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post #410 of 418 Old 07-27-2014, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post


I'm sorry to hear that. The S60 has received great reviews by pro calibrators and many AVS members to boot. I agree my S60 is reflective due to the lack of a filter, but my room isn't all that bright and I have controlled lighting. As far as those other problems, the dithering is minor and line bleed hasn't been an issue. I haven't experienced any real IR to speak of, even with sport tickers, there is no noticeable buzzing unless I'm on right on top of my set and I don't have an excessive heat problem. I'm certain that if you aren't happy with your TV there are plenty of people on this forum who would be willing to make an offer to buy it from you.

Ian
Yeah I've seen quite a few happy customers with this TV. I'm not saying the pro-calibrators are wrong, It's possible this panel is defective. But if it's not I could try and sell it to someone else on the AVS forums.

Worth a shot!
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post #411 of 418 Old 07-27-2014, 02:21 PM
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I think if Panasonic had wanted to say plasma is better than LCD, that was going to be a bit awkward given that they were also making LCD.

I don't think plasma TVs were ever huge sellers in this country, but they had their niche and appeared to be viable for a long period. Some of the reasons given above for the demise of plasma could apply at any point in their history. But something seems to have happened specifically around 2011/2012. The range of Panasonic plasmas on display in local shops shrank dramatically in 2012. One shop near me had about a dozen on display in 2011, reduced to one in 2012. I think that was the turning point and whatever finally killed them off probably happened around then.
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post #412 of 418 Old 07-27-2014, 03:45 PM
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Post Merchandizing

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Originally Posted by fluxo View Post
I think if Panasonic had wanted to say plasma is better than LCD, that was going to be a bit awkward given that they were also making LCD.

I don't think plasma TVs were ever huge sellers in this country, but they had their niche and appeared to be viable for a long period. Some of the reasons given above for the demise of plasma could apply at any point in their history. But something seems to have happened specifically around 2011/2012. The range of Panasonic plasmas on display in local shops shrank dramatically in 2012. One shop near me had about a dozen on display in 2011, reduced to one in 2012. I think that was the turning point and whatever finally killed them off probably happened around then.
As I posted earlier, poor merchandizing. Dealers require incentives and strong rep support and Panasonic didn't make much effort to do either.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
My 1080p S60's peak brightness is higher then most Panasonic 768p PDP's I've seen tested over the years. It may be different with Samsung. All 768 PDP's, including my old C2, seem coarser to me. At less then 10 ft, I have yet to see any 50'' 1366X768p plasmas with out any noticeable SDE.

Ian
No SDE effect on my Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY. No buzzing. Perfect colors. Outstanding detail. Zero motion problems. Zero buzzing. Fabulous deep blacks. And not dim at all. Apparently newer plasmas have that problem, but not with the Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY, which was the reference HDTV for years, found in most affiliate media broadcast centers.

Last edited by igreg; 07-27-2014 at 05:12 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post


I'm sorry to hear that. The S60 has received great reviews by pro calibrators and many AVS members to boot. I agree my S60 is reflective due to the lack of a filter, but my room isn't all that bright and I have controlled lighting. As far as those other problems, the dithering is minor and line bleed hasn't been an issue. I haven't experienced any real IR to speak of, even with sport tickers, there is no noticeable buzzing unless I'm on right on top of my set and I don't have an excessive heat problem. I'm certain that if you aren't happy with your TV there are plenty of people on this forum who would be willing to make an offer to buy it from you.

Ian

You had a defective set.
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post #415 of 418 Old 07-27-2014, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igreg View Post
No SDE effect on my Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY. No buzzing. Perfect colors. Outstanding detail. Zero motion problems. Zero buzzing. Fabulous deep blacks. And not dim at all. Apparently newer plasmas have that problem, but not with the Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY, which was the reference HDTV for years, found in most affiliate media broadcast centers.
Those were great TV's, and they weren't cheap, but it's still physics and you will see the SDE.

Quote:
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You had a defective set.
Lucky me!


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post #416 of 418 Old 07-28-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanjohn123 View Post
I just bought my f8500 plasma TV and was going through my manual. I will note down the 2 points mentioned under the warranty section.

1.warranty does not cover any damage caused by image retention.

2.burn-in is not covered by the warranty.

No wonder plasmas are dead. How can you blame consumers for not buying plasmas with such user instructions ?
While I understand what you're trying to say you have to realize that many people don't even open their owners manuals, let alone even read the actual warranty coverage so I hardly think what's written in the warranty section of the owners manual is what killed plasma.
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post #417 of 418 Old 07-28-2014, 12:46 PM
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Lack of advertising and available in-store product killed it. Most buyers who walk into their local b&m electronics store are pummeled with LED sets and are there due to the ad they just saw on their old TV.

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post #418 of 418 Old 07-28-2014, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathesar View Post
Back when I bought my Kuro it was on display at Best Buy and it actually didn't look to good sitting next to all the torch mode LCDs on the brightly lit sales floor, I actually went home without anything but came back and bought it the next day.

I'm guessing a lot of potential Plasma sales were lost due to this type of arrangement.
It's just a pity there weren't hundreds of thousands more like you/us
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