HDTVtest Flat-Panel Faceoff Crowns Panasonic Plasma as Best TV - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 211 Old 06-18-2014, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
That's like saying a Chevy Malibu on a paved road handles better than a BMW M3 on a dirt road. Of course it does - because it's on a much better road
That metaphor is relevant to my interests.
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post #62 of 211 Old 06-18-2014, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
Plasma's technical superiority ended when LED-LCD came to the market and equaled it's performance in the package of an LCD.
so it hasn't yet...


one or two have 'equaled' plasma in terms of blacks and contrast, and color reproduction.


none have equaled it in viewing angle


I don't believe any have equaled it in uniformity


nor have they equaled plasma for motion(though, I think this may be more of a preference than a fact these days)




bottom line, just because one or two LED's matched one or two of plasma's strengths, doesn't mean LED has matched plasma. there still hasn't been ONE led that matched ALL of plasma's strengths in a single unit. even the sharp elite was nowhere close to having the same viewing angle.


i challenge you to show me the led that performs as well as the vt60 did, or the f8500 does. it must have as good of blacks, contrast, color, motion resolution, viewing angle and uniformity. also, to be fair, it should cost no more than the vt60 or f8500.
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post #63 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 03:11 AM
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BiggAW is a troll, thanks to him a mod locked this thread....Redbox to Close Over 500 Kiosks This Year just read the last page and you will see.
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post #64 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
BiggAW is a troll, thanks to him a mod locked this thread....Redbox to Close Over 500 Kiosks This Year just read the last page and you will see.
Ya, every time someone responds to one of his posts it just fuels his fire even more. He literally says the opposite of what is correct in every thread I've seen here to get people riled up. Banning him probably wouldn't do any good as he would just make another username.
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post #65 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
so it hasn't yet...


one or two have 'equaled' plasma in terms of blacks and contrast, and color reproduction.


none have equaled it in viewing angle


I don't believe any have equaled it in uniformity


nor have they equaled plasma for motion(though, I think this may be more of a preference than a fact these days)




bottom line, just because one or two LED's matched one or two of plasma's strengths, doesn't mean LED has matched plasma. there still hasn't been ONE led that matched ALL of plasma's strengths in a single unit. even the sharp elite was nowhere close to having the same viewing angle.


i challenge you to show me the led that performs as well as the vt60 did, or the f8500 does. it must have as good of blacks, contrast, color, motion resolution, viewing angle and uniformity. also, to be fair, it should cost no more than the vt60 or f8500.
Even the vaunted Elite had some major color decoding issues that were never fixed. Sony has produced some really great sets like the 929 that came really really close to equalling or besting Plasma.

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post #66 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Right, because they only invited plasma aficionados...
Almost half the audience walked out before the shootout concluded, I wish I knew how those people would have voted.

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post #67 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Almost half the audience walked out before the shootout concluded, I wish I knew how those people would have voted.
Well, I'm not sure we can read anything into that unless you're suggesting the were disgusted/unhappy with the shootout and left early to show their frustration / dissatisfaction.
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post #68 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Well, I'm not sure we can read anything into that unless you're suggesting the were disgusted/unhappy with the shootout and left early to show their frustration / dissatisfaction.
Nope, I can't read minds. I have no idea what it means, maybe they were hungry.

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post #69 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 03:00 PM
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i took a leap and went with the 2nd place OLED
best picture i have ever seen
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post #70 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
so it hasn't yet...


one or two have 'equaled' plasma in terms of blacks and contrast, and color reproduction.
More information please… How dark were the blacks and what was the contrast ratio?
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post #71 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by xvfx View Post
More information please… How dark were the blacks and what was the contrast ratio?


sorry, I don't have details, that's why I left it open to the possibility that an LED, or more specifically some FALD units have achieved good black levels. the quotes around 'equaled' are in reference to dimming units being able to produce deep blacks for testing, even though they aren't that deep with actual content.


the only thing I can say(which doesn't count for much) is that the black level(well the black areas between the clouding) of the d6400's I brought home were WAY blacker than on my b530 plasma.
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post #72 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Prove that ! One of the most ridiculous posts I have ever read. Sure some FALD panels have come very close but on average a bottom tier plasma will out perform a LED in almost all picture qualities. Show me one currently produced LED that can even touch the top tier plasmas in black level. Then factor in motion handling, off angle viewing etc
CCFL LCD had one achilles heel compared to plasma: black levels. LED-LCD fixed that, and now they offer the same experience as a plasma.

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Alternative Headline

Group of plasma aficionados choose plasma set as best PQ over a slew of LCDs.

LOL!

Film at Eleven!
Yeah. A fair bit of truth there.

I could see there being a bias back in the late 2000's, where people would be coming from tubes or CRT RPTVs, and would be more accustomed to the look of a plasma, since it is much more closely related to CRT technology than LCD technology, which would create a plasma bias, but these days, most people have gotten beyond that, and recognize LED-LCD as king in the TV and PC display market, with variations on OLED like AMOLED and SAMOLED being king in the small screen market.
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post #73 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 06:18 PM
 
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Yeah. A fair bit of truth there.
Bull@#$%. Pure, unadulterated speculation is all that was.
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post #74 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
CCFL LCD had one achilles heel compared to plasma: black levels. LED-LCD fixed that, and now they offer the same experience as a plasma.

You need to do a little research, LED may do some things well but displaying pure black is not one of them. In fact the gap has widened the past couple of years. Take a traditional edge lit led and even the poorest plasma will run laps around it from a mll measurement point of view.
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post #75 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 06:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
most people have gotten beyond that, and recognize LED-LCD as king in the TV and PC display market.
What sells the best does not necessarily equate to what recreates the best PQ. By your estimation, AVS is living in the dark ages, but that's not really true. You just refuse to objectively look at the four big facets of PQ and how they fare between the various techs and either ignore or dismiss findings that don't match your misconceptions. Also, for your information, I jumped ship from LCD in 2008 because of the disappointing dark room performance. It was lovely during the day but left much to be desired with its heavy clouding at night. CRT played no role in my decision to grab a Kuro as a replacement.
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Last edited by vinnie97; 06-20-2014 at 11:24 AM. Reason: typo. darn
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post #76 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 06:49 PM
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Right now OLED is slightly out of reach (unless you're near a Microcenter...the 55" is going for a mere $2k)...
Holy crap dudes, if anyone is near a Microcenter then buy me one, no seriously!

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post #77 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
What sales the best does not necessarily equate to what recreates the best PQ. By your estimation, AVS is living in the dark ages, but that's not really true. You just refuse to objectively look at the four big facets of PQ and how they fare between the various techs and either ignore or dismiss findings that don't match your misconceptions. Also, for your information, I jumped ship from LCD in 2008 because of the disappointing dark room performance. It was lovely during the day but left much to be desired with its heavy clouding at night. CRT played no role in my decision to grab a Kuro as a replacement.
Or they have older plasmas that they spent a lot on, and don't want to let them go. Although the 55" Plasmas of yesteryear are nothing like the 70"+ LED-LCDs of today, unless you need a space heater of course!

In this case, the market has absolutely followed the PQ, although not with the exact models. A lot of off-brand TVs are sold because they are at a good price point, not because they can match the PQ of a Sharp/Sony/Sammy.
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post #78 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 08:03 PM
 
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*throws up hands in exasperation* Someone else is free to take it from here.
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post #79 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
CCFL LCD had one achilles heel compared to plasma: black levels.
no, that wasn't the only problem
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
LED-LCD fixed that, and now they offer the same experience as a plasma.
no, it hasn't.
in some ways I'd say it's gotten worse. that's why after trying two LED's I returned it for a CCFL backlit lcd.
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Last edited by fierce_gt; 06-19-2014 at 10:05 PM.
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post #80 of 211 Old 06-19-2014, 10:04 PM
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*throws up hands in exasperation* Someone else is free to take it from here.
there's no point, other than to make sure some poor soul doesn't wander in to this thread and believe him...


it's weird that you have to defend proven facts(how many years has a plasma been crowned best display?) even though all his arguments are either opinion or totally off the wall BS.
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post #81 of 211 Old 06-20-2014, 05:22 AM
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Why are you guys even entertaining BiggAW's posts?
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post #82 of 211 Old 06-20-2014, 09:44 AM
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Why are you guys even entertaining BiggAW's posts?
To stop all his anti-plasma mis-information immediately so that future readers don't mistakenly take his posts as fact.

Read his post history . . . .
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post #83 of 211 Old 06-20-2014, 12:21 PM
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Holy crap dudes, if anyone is near a Microcenter then buy me one, no seriously!
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post #84 of 211 Old 06-20-2014, 12:34 PM
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i took a leap and went with the 2nd place OLED
best picture i have ever seen
I agree with you OLed is best picture when set up right.
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post #85 of 211 Old 06-20-2014, 01:15 PM
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The sale may be over...you could be too late. :[
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post #87 of 211 Old 06-20-2014, 04:18 PM
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no, that wasn't the only problem
no, it hasn't.
in some ways I'd say it's gotten worse. that's why after trying two LED's I returned it for a CCFL backlit lcd.
Unless you're comparing to a really crappy LED, CCFL is never going to perform as well. It can't. That being said, for people who already have CCFL sets or are buying used, many of them are very good in their own right, and most people would be fine with an older CCFL.
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post #88 of 211 Old 06-20-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
Unless you're comparing to a really crappy LED, CCFL is never going to perform as well. It can't. That being said, for people who already have CCFL sets or are buying used, many of them are very good in their own right, and most people would be fine with an older CCFL.
it can, and it did. now what?


they were actually nearly identical models. Samsung d6400 vs d630


I'd argue that an edgelit LED could never perform as well as any kind of truly backlit lcd. having 'better blacks' is totally useless if it comes with clouding and flashlighting.
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post #89 of 211 Old 06-20-2014, 08:34 PM
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it can, and it did. now what?


they were actually nearly identical models. Samsung d6400 vs d630


I'd argue that an edgelit LED could never perform as well as any kind of truly backlit lcd. having 'better blacks' is totally useless if it comes with clouding and flashlighting.
Edge vs. backlit is an irrelevant technical detail. It might be fun to nerd out about on AVS, but as long as it's done well, it doesn't really matter.
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post #90 of 211 Old 06-20-2014, 09:28 PM
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Edge vs. backlit is an irrelevant technical detail. It might be fun to nerd out about on AVS, but as long as it's done well, it doesn't really matter.
it is one of the most important 'technical details' when shopping for an LCD tv. it is literally the base upon which the entire display is built on. if the backlighting is flawed, the picture will be flawed, period. it's like saying the motor and transmission of a car is an irrelevant detail.

for me, edgelit is a deal breaker.


but then you said 'if done well'. so I guess I have to agree with that. if at some point somebody makes an edgelit led that is 'done well' it could have decent uniformity. unfortunately all the edgelit led's on the market today haven't been 'done well' yet.
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Last edited by fierce_gt; 06-20-2014 at 09:31 PM.
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