HDTVtest Flat-Panel Faceoff Crowns Panasonic Plasma as Best TV - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 211 Old 06-15-2014, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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HDTVtest Flat-Panel Faceoff Crowns Panasonic Plasma as Best TV



A British TV-review site conducted a flat-panel faceoff, and—surprise, surprise—a plasma won. But the Panasonic AX802B won Best UHDTV by a landslide.

Mark Henninger's report from his press preview of the Panasonic AX800U LED-edgelit LCD UHDTV has inspired tons of comments—over 1100 last time I looked. Of course, the title he chose for that report—"Panasonic Beats Plasma Picture Quality with the TC-AX800U Series"—is highly controversial; some might even say, "Them's fightin' words!"

The results of a recent flat-panel faceoff conducted by British TV-review site HDTVtest.co.uk in collaboration with retailer Crampton & Moore and Leeds Trinity University demonstrate that LED-LCD might not actually beat plasma picture quality quite yet. However, the AX802B (the European version of the AX800U) trounced the other LED-edgelit UHDTVs from Samsung and Sony by a landslide, indicating that Panasonic could be regaining its position near the top of the TV heap.

The six sets were placed side by side in a gentle curve—from left to right in the photo above:

- Samsung UE65HU8500 (curved LED-LCD UHDTV, comparable to UN65HU9000 in the US)
- Panasonic TX-65AX802B (flat LED-LCD UHDTV, comparable to TC-65AX800U in the US)
- Sony KD-65X9005B (flat LED-LCD UHDTV, comparable to XBR-65X900B in the US)
- Samsung UE65HU7500 (flat LED-LCD UHDTV, comparable to UN65HU8550 in the US)
- LG 55EA980V (curved OLED HDTV, comparable to 55EA9800 in the US)
- Panasonic TX-P60ZT65B (flat plasma HDTV, comparable toTC-P60ZT60 in the US)

All six TVs were calibrated to D65 grayscale, 2.4 gamma, Rec.709 color gamut, and 45 foot-lambert peak-white level. (The site's normal peak-white level for TV reviews is 35 fL, but it was set higher for this test because of the light coming from all the TVs next to each other.) The Panasonic plasma achieved the high peak-white level with its Panel Luminance control set to High. The edgelit LED-LCD TVs had their pseudo-local dimming enabled at a level that resulted in the least backlight fluctuation, gamma skewing, and shadow-detail crushing.

The source devices included an Oppo BDP-103 Blu-ray player, MacBook Pro with 4K output, and a Panasonic DMR-BWT735 HD DVR set to output an interlaced signal to simulate broadcast signals. All sources were connected to the TVs using QED cables and Lindy HDMI splitters.

In the original article, you can read about how the TVs performed in various specific categories, including 4K, HD and SD, contrast, color, backlight/screen uniformity, and motion. In the end, the Panasonic TX-65AX802B won Best 4K Ultra HD TV in a landslide, while the TX-P60ZT65B plasma won Best TV by a much closer margin over the LG 55EA980V OLED. Interestingly, none of the UHDTVs garnered a single vote for Best TV.

Out of more than 30 attendees, only 17 stayed until the end to participate in the voting, so these are hardly statistically significant results. Also, there were no FALD (full-array local-dimming) LED-LCD TVs in the faceoff, so the results cannot be considered definitive. Still, they support the notion that Panasonic is making great strides in LED-LCD picture quality and that the ZT65/ZT60 plasma remains hard to beat.

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post #2 of 211 Old 06-15-2014, 04:56 PM
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Bah. I hate these stats with only 17 people! Still I am not surprised a plasma won. When you say, "it won by a landslide." Does that just mean like 12 of the 17 voted one way?
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post #3 of 211 Old 06-15-2014, 05:00 PM
 
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Not a single UHDTV procured a best TV vote... OLED is already eating LCD for lunch.
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post #4 of 211 Old 06-15-2014, 05:07 PM
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I wonder why they dont keep the Pioneer Elite Pro 141FD and the Sharp Elite discontinued models in the shootout too, like the Panny 65VT60.
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post #5 of 211 Old 06-15-2014, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post
I wonder why they dont keep the Pioneer Elite Pro 141FD and the Sharp Elite discontinued models in the shootout too, like the Panny 65VT60.
Maybe because the VT60 was the most recently sold and many thought it overall equaled the Kuro or at least came close.

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post #6 of 211 Old 06-15-2014, 07:21 PM
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think so,Maybe because the VT60 was the most recently sold and many thought it overall equaled the Kuro or at least came close.thanks [IMG]http://*******/8e9eFH[/IMG]
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post #7 of 211 Old 06-15-2014, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post
I wonder why they dont keep the Pioneer Elite Pro 141FD and the Sharp Elite discontinued models in the shootout too, like the Panny 65VT60.
As the elite was never sold in eu
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post #8 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 03:43 AM
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Did they leave the lights on? Wow! A plasma beat OLED! The Sharp Elite could have been there! I guess the other 13 out of 30 felt the same way.
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post #9 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 04:12 AM
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I think they should leave the winning TV in the shootout until it get's dethroned by something else whether it is currently sold or not.

The question is whether the shootout intentions are to sell current TV's or if they are truly there to pick the best TV. If it is the latter then there is not reason for the best TV not to be in the shootout until it get's dethroned.
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post #10 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 05:08 AM
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It's all moot. Plasma isn't going to be made any more and I can't help but wonder if any pre-bias effected the results. It's not exactly a blind test.


To my eyes, the new top end UHD TVs showing 4K content look better than the Panny plasma's playing 1080.
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post #11 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 05:54 AM
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The experts opinion was the same has the 17 voters (pls read the comments in the article)

Congrast to hdtvtest for the brilliant shoutout.
The early ultra hd TV adopters might not like it or agree with the results, but thats the way it is... LCD-LED TV will never match plasma/oled in PQ

Maybe in 10 years when the LCD-LED TV manufactures produce 16bits panels and REC.2020...until there the Plasma/oled will be my next television for sure.

LG in talks to supply OLEDs to panasonic.


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To my eyes, the new top end UHD TVs showing 4K content look better than the Panny plasma's playing 1080.
In a showroom, I'm sure they did.
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post #13 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 10:54 AM
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To my eyes, the new top end UHD TVs showing 4K content look better than the Panny plasma's playing 1080.
In a showroom, I'm sure they did.
The only information of importance to me here is how well Panasonic's LCD did. Who cares about what any plasma did since it's a dead technology, especially from Panasonic, and OLED is almost unattainable for the vast majority of buyers.
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Right now OLED is slightly out of reach (unless you're near a Microcenter...the 55" is going for a mere $2k)...but LCD Band-Aids don't interest me. Sharp (and now Sony) have proven the only way you can get an LCD that measures up to a top of the line plasma is to pay double (or more) the cost. The AX800U isn't anywhere on my to-buy list, as greater resolution clearly isn't going to make up for everything else that's lost. The Vizio R is the only hope for LCD in my estimation.
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
Right now OLED is slightly out of reach (unless you're near a Microcenter...the 55" is going for a mere $2k)...but LCD Band-Aids don't interest me. Sharp (and now Sony) have proven the only way you can get an LCD that measures up to a top of the line plasma is to pay double (or more) the cost. The AX800U isn't anywhere on my to-buy list, as greater resolution clearly isn't going to make up for everything else that's lost. The Vizio R is the only hope for LCD in my estimation.
I'm looking into the report about Panasonic buying OLED panels from LG, trying to get a comment from the company. Obviously that combo could make a lot of people very happy, especially if OLED UHD Panny's were the "flat" option. Gotta cross those fingers.
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The more options, the better...if Panasonic can stay in the consumer TV division long enough!
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post #17 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 11:18 AM
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The more options, the better...if Panasonic can stay in the consumer TV division long enough!
I just toured Panasonic's new research facility in NJ. It did not look like the sort of thing you'd build if you were winding down a division.

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post #18 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 11:21 AM
 
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That's them set for 2014 and maybe 2015 then. If the research is exclusive to displays, I might more easily agree, but things can change at the drop of a hat when the command comes from on high.
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post #19 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I wonder why they dont keep the Pioneer Elite Pro 141FD and the Sharp Elite discontinued models in the shootout too, like the Panny 65VT60.
They included only TVs that are currently available at retail.

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post #20 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Bah. I hate these stats with only 17 people! Still I am not surprised a plasma won. When you say, "it won by a landslide." Does that just mean like 12 of the 17 voted one way?
Well, I did say the result was not statistically significant. In this case, a "landslide" was 11 out of 17 votes.

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post #21 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 11:48 AM
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Impossible. It's not 4K or as bright as an LCD.

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The only information of importance to me here is how well Panasonic's LCD did(...)

and OLED is almost unattainable for the vast majority of buyers.
4K LED with full-array local-dimming are too expensive and no better than Oled/plasma, and its a big mistake to think that the 1080p TVs will be absolete in the next 4/5 years.

Oled 1080p are getting close to 2000$ (55" ) in US market, and the prices will fall by the end of the 2014 when the OLED 4K start models became available.

4K OLED prices in euros..



4K Oled estimate prices


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post #23 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 01:20 PM
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A couple things I noticed:

"A number of participants thought that shadow detail on the LG appeared less distinct, but it’s probably due to Panasonic plasma’s propensity to brighten near-black gamma."

Does that imply there is a linear section in the lowlight gamma correction similar to 709's at 8%?

"Mesmerised by the LG OLED’s awesome dynamic range, a few attendees commented that football was highly enjoyable on the TV despite featuring the lowest motion resolution even with [TruMotion] engaged."

Does that imply afterglow lag?


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post #24 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 02:22 PM
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1) Plasma has been a dead technology for years, so who cares.

2) I don't believe the results anyways.

3) It's a terrible time to buy any TV, since 4K is going to get way better and cheaper, and HDMI 2.0 will be available, etc.

4) 4K Is the way things are going. 1080p is for cheap commodity Wal-Mart TVs now anyways.
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post #25 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 02:46 PM
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It should called the Best of edge-light TV's and take out Oled and plasma out.
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post #26 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
Right now OLED is slightly out of reach (unless you're near a Microcenter...the 55" is going for a mere $2k)...but LCD Band-Aids don't interest me. Sharp (and now Sony) have proven the only way you can get an LCD that measures up to a top of the line plasma is to pay double (or more) the cost. The AX800U isn't anywhere on my to-buy list, as greater resolution clearly isn't going to make up for everything else that's lost. The Vizio R is the only hope for LCD in my estimation.
-such high resolution you have..
-the better to see flashlighting/motion blur/poor viewing angles my dear


it's like putting an 800hp motor into a sunfire. means nothing if you can't get the power to the ground and use it effectively.
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post #27 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 04:45 PM
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Ok...so oled lost out to plasma because the blues weren't as deep and image retention was worse on the oled screen. Hmmmmm...anyone else done a plasma/oled side by side test? I'm wondering if plasma is still really the best. My modified panny plasma is outstanding with regards black level and this is with a side by side test with a grade 1 broadcast crt monitor and samsung note 2 smartphone!
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1) Plasma has been a dead technology for years, so who cares.
Still pissing on your favored edgelit LCDs from rather great heights.

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2) I don't believe the results anyways.
How inconvenient for you. I imagine the last 3 years have been mighty difficult since the last W generated by any LCD was the Sharp Elite (for a cool $8k)!
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post #29 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 05:53 PM
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....To my eyes, the new top end UHD TVs showing 4K content look better than the Panny plasma's playing 1080.
Well of course it does - the 4K content looks WAY better than the 1080 content and it does look incredible to me even from 12 feet back, but its more because of the better source and content. But it's not a fair comparison and i think TVs should be compared only when displaying the same exact content.

That's like saying a Chevy Malibu on a paved road handles better than a BMW M3 on a dirt road. Of course it does - because it's on a much better road


Play regular 1080 content on that UHD LCD TV and it does look more natural than on a 1080p LCD, but from the few examples i've seen it didn't look better than it would on a good Plasma.
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post #30 of 211 Old 06-16-2014, 06:51 PM
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Play regular 1080 content on that UHD LCD TV and it does look more natural than on a 1080p LCD, but from the few examples i've seen it didn't look better than it would on a good Plasma.
That and the original article seems to suggest that the upconversion in these displays is adequate. At closer viewing distances I would guess that the increased resolution would lessen pixel visibility, especially on larger screens.


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