Samsung PN60F5300B Settings And What They Do - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 63 Old 07-07-2014, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
I need to figure out if I need to use two different calibrations for 24p and 60p when leaving the cinema smooth option enabled in the menu and just switching the input frame rate.
Are YOU switching the frame rate or is the TV? My input is an HTPC, so switching the frame rate (I'm pretty sure) would require accessing the Intel display driver.
And, for now, I AIN'T TOUCHIN' NOTHIN'!

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post #32 of 63 Old 07-07-2014, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by karlpoe View Post
There are CAL DAY and CAL NIGHT modes that can be activated from within the service menu. Your calibrator should be able to enable them when they do the calibration.
That would be very cool. How would one then toggle between them?
(and you wouldn't happen to know how to access the service menu, would you? )

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post #33 of 63 Old 07-07-2014, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Are YOU switching the frame rate or is the TV? My input is an HTPC, so switching the frame rate (I'm pretty sure) would require accessing the Intel display driver.
And, for now, I AIN'T TOUCHIN' NOTHIN'!

Oh yeah sorry, I switched it on my MacBook Pro to 24 hz instead of 60 hz at 1080p. My HTPC is out of commission with a bad motherboard, but I guess I would be switching to 24 hz for that as well. My wii u and Apple TV both run at 60 hz 1080p and the tv automatically switches off the cinema smooth and runs at 60p instead of the 24p cinema smooth mode when hooked to my laptop, which I set to run at 24 hz 1080p. I can stream anything that is 60p right to the Apple TV, so no need to switch back and forth between between 24 hz and 60 hz, I just leave the external monitor set for 24 hz on my laptop and will do the same for my HTPC which has all my HD movie rips all 24P the lone exception I can stream to the Apple TV or I guess switch the hz if need be.

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post #34 of 63 Old 07-07-2014, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
So, what did I end up with besides a migraine and blurry vision?





Get to work, everyone!


Michael
All I can say is... DANG! THAT LOOKS GOOD!

The F5300 is certainly no slouch in the color dept.

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post #35 of 63 Old 07-07-2014, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Are YOU switching the frame rate or is the TV? My input is an HTPC, so switching the frame rate (I'm pretty sure) would require accessing the Intel display driver.
And, for now, I AIN'T TOUCHIN' NOTHIN'!
Cinema Smooth is only turned on when a 24p input is detected. If you are receiving a 60p signal Cinema Smooth is greyed out so it makes no difference whether you turned it on or not.

If you want to play back 24p content without user intervention use something like MPC-HC w/ madVR or XBMC which will auto-detect and switch frame rates for you. In madVR I have it set up to switch to 1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29, 1080p30, 1080p50, 1080p59, and 1080p60. All formats are accounted for, this set will even take European framerates (25/50p) and play them properly which was a nice surprise.

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post #36 of 63 Old 07-08-2014, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Cinema Smooth is only turned on when a 24p input is detected. If you are receiving a 60p signal Cinema Smooth is greyed out so it makes no difference whether you turned it on or not.

If you want to play back 24p content without user intervention use something like MPC-HC w/ madVR or XBMC which will auto-detect and switch frame rates for you. In madVR I have it set up to switch to 1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29, 1080p30, 1080p50, 1080p59, and 1080p60. All formats are accounted for, this set will even take European framerates (25/50p) and play them properly which was a nice surprise.
Cool to know. Do you know if the calibration switches with the input frame rate? Or if it just switches when you first enable cinema smooth in the menu and then stays even when cinema smooth is greyed for 60p?

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post #37 of 63 Old 07-08-2014, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
Cool to know. Do you know if the calibration switches with the input frame rate? Or if it just switches when you first enable cinema smooth in the menu and then stays even when cinema smooth is greyed for 60p?
I don't know as I don't have a meter, but unlike LastButNotLeast I don't see any difference in picture quality between display modes.
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post #38 of 63 Old 07-08-2014, 04:03 AM
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I see a big difference in picture calibration when I enable cinema smooth, do you not?

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post #39 of 63 Old 07-08-2014, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
If you want to play back 24p content without user intervention use something like MPC-HC w/ madVR or XBMC which will auto-detect and switch frame rates for you.
Some day. Thanks for the recommendation. I tried XBMC but never got the OTA recorder function working, so I gave up. I know you can have have both it and MC loaded at the same time, I just haven't bothered.
Yet.

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post #40 of 63 Old 07-08-2014, 10:30 AM
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Nice post Michael.

What was your final CR? I see in some measurements is almost 5,000:1

Whats the reason to use cell light at 20? Just curious since I've read different things regarding cell light. I've read that leaving it at max might contribute to image retention.

Comparisons between the two meters?

Once again -- nice post!

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post #41 of 63 Old 07-08-2014, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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It's about time you showed up! How's the 3D demo disc coming along?

Cell Light < 20 and Contrast < 100 apparently trigger some sort of automatic corrections that I wanted to avoid. That said, I was afraid to do all this at contrast = 100, especially since I'm getting plenty of output at 95.

IR is, apparently, a rather overblown problem; also, apparently, fairly easily fixed. If I don't have a rectangle in the middle of my screen from all these calibration runs (and I don't), then I don't think my regular viewing habits are going to be a problem. Unfortunately, as you know, calibration runs ARE my regular viewing habits.

CR was > 5000 even before I reduced the brightness from 55 to 45 (and, for the first time, saw BTB on the brightness patterns - I'm not even going to try to figure that one out, but, as I said before, I ain't changin' nothin'), so it's probably better now. I did measure > 8000, but at that setting the blacks were crushed.

Now that I'm done (yeah, right), I plan to create a calibration file for my i1 using the i1Pro as a reference (and then, perhaps, sell my i1 with the calibration file ). That should show up any difference between the two units. I'll let you know.

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post #42 of 63 Old 07-08-2014, 02:28 PM
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What is 600Hz subfield? I don't see any way to turn it on or off. Is this Cinema Smooth?

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post #43 of 63 Old 07-08-2014, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by machavez00 View Post
What is 600Hz subfield? I don't see any way to turn it on or off. Is this Cinema Smooth?
it's not a 'feature', it's a 'spec'. that is it's part of how the panel works, it can't be turned on or off. it'd be like having a setting to turn on/off 1080p resolution.


anyway, it's mostly marketing gobblety gook to fight against the 120hz craze that lcd's introduced a few years back.
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post #44 of 63 Old 07-08-2014, 08:55 PM
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LastButNotLeast,

How bad were the primaries and white balance in Movie Mode with Warm2 Color Tone and default Custom Color Space settings before calibration?

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post #45 of 63 Old 07-09-2014, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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It really wasn't bad just with warm2 and gamma -1.
But, as with any of these settings, YMMV.

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post #46 of 63 Old 07-09-2014, 03:44 PM
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Curiosity got the better of me, just ordered my meter.... I blame you lastbutnotleast.

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post #47 of 63 Old 07-09-2014, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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And I happily accept full responsibility.

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post #48 of 63 Old 07-09-2014, 07:54 PM
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Curiosity got the better of me, just ordered my meter.... I blame you lastbutnotleast.
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post #49 of 63 Old 07-10-2014, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Welcome to the crazies. Its really fun... so they say.
Says the guy with an i1 AND a Spyder 3.

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post #50 of 63 Old 07-13-2014, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
The following calibration was done with Picture Mode set to Movie, Cell Light = 20, Contrast = 95, Brightness = 55, Gamma = -1, Color Tone = Warm2, HDMI Black Level = Low.
Hi there, I am curious if Gamma test patterns (like the one on lagom.nl website) indicate a Gamma of 2.2 on this TV after you've calibrated using your meter and Color HCFR? My visuals look pretty decent in general, but the Gamma measurement using test patterns indicates a gamma of ~ 1.7.

I have a PN60F5300B and Will's settings look quite washed out. Currently I have the Default Movie mode...quite similar to the settings quoted above.
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post #51 of 63 Old 07-14-2014, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you mean the pattern under "LCD monitor and calibration"?
My gamma curve is in the first post, and the average gamma is 2.27.
As has been mentioned several million times, each set has individual differences that make one person's calibration inappropriate for a different set. If you want to do it right, hire someone or buy/borrow/rent/steal a meter and learn to do it yourself.
Otherwise, if you're not happy with "pretty decent" and "quite washed out," you can experiment until you get something with which you are happy - at least you don't have to worry about breaking anything.
Just know that these sets are capable of being calibrated to "fabulous."

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post #52 of 63 Old 07-14-2014, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Do you mean the pattern under "LCD monitor and calibration"?
My gamma curve is in the first post, and the average gamma is 2.27.
As has been mentioned several million times, each set has individual differences that make one person's calibration inappropriate for a different set. If you want to do it right, hire someone or buy/borrow/rent/steal a meter and learn to do it yourself.
I am very well aware of the futility of trying to "calibrate" a display without a meter or by blindly plugging in other peoples calibration settings. However, I think you missed the point of my question.

I realize that you have calibrated your display correctly using a meter and so it is set to a good gamma that is close to 2.2 (2.27 as you mentioned in your case). What I am curious about is whether the gamma test images like those on the lagom.nl website here: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php actually indicate visually that the gamma of your display is indeed 2.2? I know that these test patterns can work fairly well for matching gamma by eye, but not necessarily on all displays.

I am trying to determine whether a properly calibrated PN60F5300 also matches these Gamma test patterns reasonably well. If not, it would indicate that these test patterns do not do a good job at guesstimating the display gamma when it comes to this display (I know it has worked for my LCD monitor in the past when calibrated with an ancient Spyder 2 colorimeter).
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post #53 of 63 Old 07-14-2014, 11:13 PM
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The subpixel addressing and non-standard PenTile subpixel layout on the 60F5300 will make LCD monitor gamma tests unreliable. Those kinds of tests only work well on displays with precise 1:1 pixel mapping.
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post #54 of 63 Old 07-14-2014, 11:31 PM
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In case it wasn't already apparent, lower Gamma settings on the TV will actually increase the gamma on these displays, giving the image greater depth and contrast. -3 is the darkest/contrastiest setting. +3 is the brightest and least contrasty (most washed out) setting.

You should recalibrate both the Brightness and Contrast after making any changes to the Gamma control though to insure that there's no clipping of either the white or black detail. You may have to go back and forth between Brightness and Contrast a couple times to get them both dialed in correctly. Set the Brightness last though.

You should not see any dithered pixels on a reference (Y'=16) black screen btw. It should look completely blank.

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post #55 of 63 Old 07-15-2014, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
What I am curious about is whether the gamma test images like those on the lagom.nl website here: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php actually indicate visually that the gamma of your display is indeed 2.2? I know that these test patterns can work fairly well for matching gamma by eye, but not necessarily on all displays..
Okay, FWIW, it looks like this:

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post #56 of 63 Old 07-15-2014, 07:28 AM
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The subpixel addressing and non-standard PenTile pixel layout will make LCD monitor gamma tests unreliable on these displays. Those kinds of tests only work well on displays with precise 1:1 pixel mapping.
Thanks! This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I had a feeling that those charts would only work for LCD sub-pixel layouts since the visuals on my Plasma TV matched roughly what I would expect from a screen with Gamma in the 2.1-2.3 range, so it was weird seeing a Gamma of 1.6-1.7 on those test charts.
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post #57 of 63 Old 07-15-2014, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Okay, FWIW, it looks like this:
Thanks! Looks quite similar to what I see on my panel, so that, along with ADU's comment earlier puts the issue to rest.
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post #58 of 63 Old 07-24-2014, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Are YOU switching the frame rate or is the TV? My input is an HTPC, so switching the frame rate (I'm pretty sure) would require accessing the Intel display driver.
And, for now, I AIN'T TOUCHIN' NOTHIN'!
Actually, you can get the benefit of CinemaSmooth for 24p content without having to touch anything if you use MPC-HC and MadVR for viewing your videos/movies. You can have the Intel Driver set to the default of 60pHz refresh rate. In MadVR, you can setup 1080p24 as one of the supported refresh rates for your display and MPC-HC will automatically change the system refresh rate to 24p when you start a 24p movie. Once you exit out of MPC-HC, the refresh rate will revert back to 60p. This way you get to enjoy both 60p and 24p content optimally. The only thing you'd need is to switch the TV calibrations for each mode to avoid the impact of the red push in CinemaSmooth mode.

Cinema Smooth is definitely very nice for 24p content and slow panning scenes are visibly smoother than when it is turned off.
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post #59 of 63 Old 07-25-2014, 05:07 AM - Thread Starter
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The only thing you'd need is to switch the TV calibrations for each mode to avoid the impact of the red push in CinemaSmooth mode.
Right, that's the problem!

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post #60 of 63 Old 08-31-2014, 03:30 PM
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Is there a difference between the AF and BF models?

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