Samsung PN60F5300B Settings And What They Do - AVS Forum

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LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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07-05-2014 | Posts: 4,856
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First, some caveats. I am not a professional calibrator, just a dedicated hobbyist with experience with ColorHCFR. I've had several i1 colorimeters over the years, and just replaced them with an i1Pro. I also recently replaced my RPCRT with a Samsung plasma, so calibrating it was a no brainer.

The following calibration was done with Picture Mode set to Movie, Cell Light = 20, Contrast = 95, Brightness = 55, Gamma = -1, Color Tone = Warm2, HDMI Black Level = Low.

Keep in mind that the test patterns are STATIC images, so anything designed to work with dynamic images is probably not tested appropriately, but I think it's interesting, anyway.

Also realize that the changes to the settings are made FROM THIS CALIBRATION POINT. You could probably start with another setting (i.e., Warm1 and Gamma = 0) and achieve a good calibration, but I think changing the menu settings from THAT point would have similar results. If not, I leave that exercise to someone else.

That said, here are the results of my calibration, which I will use as the reference point for each of the following menu setting changes.














First, let's just change Warm2 to Warm 1. As you would expect, that changes the overall temperature:



This is the effect is has on grayscale (the highlighted box is the difference between these measurements and our reference calibration):



It has less of an effect on the primaries, but look what it does to the secondaries:



That's more obvious on the CIE diagram (reference points indicated):



Notice the change in the overall level of blue:




Changing Warm2 to Standard is even more dramatic:












Changing Dynamic Contrast from off to high increases the contrast and lowers the gamma. Though the dEs stay very respectable, note how far off they are from our starting point:



The colors are similarly adversely affected:



But look what happens to the gamma:



seriously affecting the luminance of all three primaries (target curve indicated):




Changing Dynamic Contrast from off to low has a similar, but (slightly) less dramatic effect:








How about changing the Color Space from Custom to Native? As you would expect, there is little change in the grayscale, but rather a substantial difference in both primaries and secondaries:





So much for "Going Native."
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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Of course, we all want optimum blacks, so how about the Black Optimizer? As much as I generally dislike "auto-"anything, changing from off to auto doesn't seem to do much:



Colors are affected almost not at all. Luminance drifts a little from reference, but not enough to lose sleep over.

For Bright Rooms, this is what you get:



This is pretty much what the "auto" luminance looks like, too:



If, on the other hand, you go for Dark Rooms, you get, well, almost no difference from our calibrated standard:




Perhaps Black Tone will be more useful. "Dark" dramatically increases the contrast and slightly increases the gamma:



But the gamma CURVE does this:



If you want to see what people mean by "Crushed blacks," try "Darker" and "Darkest." Personally, I like the added contrast and I don't think I'm losing all that much at the low end (use the black and white scene of Bond in the office at the beginning of Casino Royale as a reference), so I'm actually keeping this at "Dark."
Note that, for the purposes of these tests, it was returned to "Off."


Changing the HDMI Black Level from "Low" to "Normal" has, as you would expect if you've been paying any attention so far, this effect on the grayscale:



Note the lower gamma and the dramatic decrease in contrast.




I hope this has been of some interest. It was quite a learning experience for me, tedious though it may have been at times.

Enjoy your wonderful set!

Michael
afwjam's Avatar afwjam
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07-05-2014 | Posts: 149
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Cool thread! What can you tell me about what cinema smooth mode does to the picture? It seems to change it dramatically, so I have two different calibrations set for 24p and 60p. I need to get my own meter and measure myself. I have the 5350 costco model which I think should be the same, it's great except for a little pink push on the bottom of the screen.
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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That "little pink push" drove Mark crazy:
Why I Bought a Plasma HDTV in 2014
I've never used cinema smooth since I have my HTPC output 60p and have never tried 24p.
So I guess you've given me a project for another day!

edit: Okay, got the output to 24p. It does, indeed, look rather different. I'll run HCFR after dark tonight!
crakarjax's Avatar crakarjax
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Very cool! Some thoughts:

Black Tone: It looks like this just tweaks the gamma curve at the low end; I guess you could do this manually to avoid any unknown side effects? One very intriguing possibility that I see is this; what if we set it to "darkest" and then calibrate the set? Can we achieve the proper gamma curve in this case, while gaining a lower 0% black level and thus benefitting from increased contrast "for free"? I might test just this when I have some spare time!


Black Level: I have always struggled with this. Currently I have my PS3 calibrated with Black Level set to normal. However, my Roku doesn't display BTB in this case and this has me thinking about it once again. The online howto states:

Code:
HDMI  Black Level:
 
The HDMI Black Level option will compensate for the black level range of an HDMI input. When this option is set it can expand the black level range to 0-255 from a YCrCb color source. When an HDMI device that supports an RGB color range and already use the 0-255 HDMI black level range is connected, the HDMI Black Level option will be grayed out. There are two options for setting HDMI Black Level;
  • Low: Sets the HDMI Black Level enhancement for deeper black level range.
  • Normal: Sets the HDMI Black Level enhancement for what the device is sending.
From this I gather that RGB sources will not be affected at all by this setting, the TV will use 0-255 and assumes that the RGB source does the same. I'm assuming you were using YCbCr as your input source -- otherwise the change would have had no effect or more correctly would not have been available in the first place.

In "Normal" mode then, I am thinking that YCbCr will cause the TV to "detect" whether 0-255 or 16-235 is being sent. Your tests showed that going from Low to Normal cause the gamma curve to drop, and the screen to brighten. This tells me that the TV changed from "Black = 16" to "Black = 0", thus shifting the brightness upward by "16".

In that case, "Normal == (Black = 0)" and "Low == (Black = 16)". This makes sense if "deeper black level range" means blacker-than-black, ie it allows 0-15 for btb levels.

This doesn't make sense because YCbCr defines black as 16 and white as 235. So why would there be any content in 0-16 or 235-255 when playing a calibration disc? Normal should auto-detect your YCbCr as 16-235 automatically, and should therefore be exactly the same as Low! This somewhat makes sense, as I was unable to induce the removal of BTB signals when playing with my set and using a YCbCr input source.

I think the only time "Normal" should be used then, is when YCbCr content is incorrectly encoded in the 0-255 colorspace. Which is... idk how often, and that's what bothers me.

/end of rant
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakarjax View Post
One very intriguing possibility that I see is this; what if we set it to "darkest" and then calibrate the set? Can we achieve the proper gamma curve in this case, while gaining a lower 0% black level and thus benefitting from increased contrast "for free"?
You can start with whatever settings you want. After it's "calibrated," you'll be at the same end point.
The only question is, "Do we WANT a different gamma curve?" You can certainly adjust (as opposed to calibrate) the set to any endpoint you wish.
The 0% isn't changing, it's still 0% (in this case; that's where normal/low comes in). Put up any brightness calibration image and make the changes yourself and you'll see what is affected.

As to the rant , I don't think I'm getting BTB. AFAIK, Intel still only outputs 16 - 235. But I'm still leaving it on "low" anyway.

Michael
fierce_gt's Avatar fierce_gt
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very cool thread. I have some follow questions, hopefully they apply to the f8500 more or less the same way, as I've been very confused about some of these settings.


black optimizer:
what room conditions did you test in? I've heard that 'auto' switching between bright room and dark room based on ambient light. in my room it certainly appears as though auto and dark room are the same. of course, I don't have a meter to back this up with. but there's a very obviously difference between auto and bright room, for me. all that being said, what setting did you decide to use? it appears as though there's no harm in using it? it's not crushing blacks or losing detail right?


black tone:
based on your graph, this setting seems to affect the low end of the gamma curve. why would this increase contrast then? or is it possible that whatever test pattern you used simply wasn't displaying 'black' without this turned on. I'm just wondering if you would be able to get the same 'increased contrast' by adjusting the gamma curve, or even just lowering brightness? it just seems odd that a manipulation to the gamma curve would improve black levels. and if it didn't improve black levels, how did it improve contrast? clearly I'm still confused about what this one is actually doing.


black level:
I thought this was the setting to switch between 0-255 and 16-235? if that's the case, the brightness/contrast should be adjusted for each setting shouldn't it? I use a HTPC for most of my viewing, and I spent a lot of time trying to decide between using the full range and limited range. I set my pc to 0-255, and calibrated with test patterns, then set it to 16-235 and recalibrated with test patterns, I didn't really see a huge difference. but I do know if I switching between full and limited range, the image was either WAY too bright(flashing bars clearly visible into single digits), or WAY to dark(flashing bars not visible until 20's), so changing just that setting was really only half of what was necessary.


I just think with some of these tests, it may have actually been nicer to see them compared to default settings. like the warm 1 vs warm 2. default warm 2 on my f8500 is way off. I'd say it's more off than warm 1(it's like warm1 is around 7000k, but warm2 is 5000k, these numbers being made up just to help me describe it). anyway, I've seen settings based off both the warm1 and warm2 settings, tried both, and they both look basically identical to my eye(I know not the best), so it seems like you can still get 6500k out of warm 1. now I'm not sure how the f5300 relates to any of this, I just thought it'd be more interesting to see default settings compared to default settings, or calibrated settings compared to calibrated settings.


anyway, thanks again, this is a very informative thread already!
afwjam's Avatar afwjam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
That "little pink push" drove Mark crazy:
Why I Bought a Plasma HDTV in 2014
I've never used cinema smooth since I have my HTPC output 60p and have never tried 24p.
So I guess you've given me a project for another day!

edit: Okay, got the output to 24p. It does, indeed, look rather different. I'll run HCFR after dark tonight!
Seems like a lot of them have it. I live in Hawaii now and I believe that I won't be able to get another chance at a plasma, I got this one for 810 including the five year warranty. Since it is along the bottom and I mostly watch letterbox, I figure I can live with it, never noticed it while watching content. I wonder if samsung warranty service could do anything about it? Mine does not buzz or have other issues, so it seems minor in the grand scheme especially for the price, would hate to go through the trouble of exchange and end up with other worse issues.

Thank you for looking into the cinema smooth, I pretty much only watch letterboxed 24p content and would love t get my calibration sorted for cinema smooth.
caloyzki's Avatar caloyzki
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Is this TV has the ISF Day and ISF Night? Or just regular input modes?
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
...as I've been very confused about some of these settings.
You think you're the only one?! Hence, my experiment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
black optimizer:
what room conditions did you test in? I've heard that 'auto' switching between bright room and dark room based on ambient light. in my room it certainly appears as though auto and dark room are the same. of course, I don't have a meter to back this up with. but there's a very obviously difference between auto and bright room, for me. all that being said, what setting did you decide to use? it appears as though there's no harm in using it? it's not crushing blacks or losing detail right?

Testing was done under normal viewing conditions. An open family room with an overhead fluorescent light on in the adjacent kitchen. I'm leaving it (for now) on dark room. Does anyone know where the "ambient sensor" is?


Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
black tone:
based on your graph, this setting seems to affect the low end of the gamma curve. why would this increase contrast then? or is it possible that whatever test pattern you used simply wasn't displaying 'black' without this turned on. I'm just wondering if you would be able to get the same 'increased contrast' by adjusting the gamma curve, or even just lowering brightness? it just seems odd that a manipulation to the gamma curve would improve black levels. and if it didn't improve black levels, how did it improve contrast? clearly I'm still confused about what this one is actually doing.

Contrast is just the difference between 100% and 0%; gamma is a more complicated function at each point along the line. Black tone definitely seems to affect just the low end. You want to end up with a distinct difference between 0%, 5% and 10%, for example. Too dark a brightness setting and they all look alike ("crushed" blacks).


Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
black level:
I thought this was the setting to switch between 0-255 and 16-235? if that's the case, the brightness/contrast should be adjusted for each setting shouldn't it? I use a HTPC for most of my viewing, and I spent a lot of time trying to decide between using the full range and limited range. I set my pc to 0-255, and calibrated with test patterns, then set it to 16-235 and recalibrated with test patterns, I didn't really see a huge difference. but I do know if I switching between full and limited range, the image was either WAY too bright(flashing bars clearly visible into single digits), or WAY to dark(flashing bars not visible until 20's), so changing just that setting was really only half of what was necessary.

As long as the HTPC and the monitor are set the same way, you're okay. I think.
And, once it's set, there's no reason to change it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I just think with some of these tests, it may have actually been nicer to see them compared to default settings. like the warm 1 vs warm 2. default warm 2 on my f8500 is way off. ... now I'm not sure how the f5300 relates to any of this, I just thought it'd be more interesting to see default settings compared to default settings, or calibrated settings compared to calibrated settings.

The problem with "default" is that everyone's "default" is different. So I tried to start with some "standard." The result of changing a menu setting from point A to point B will probably be the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
anyway, thanks again, this is a very informative thread already!

You're welcome. Maybe you're convinced to get a meter and join the fun?

Michael
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
Thank you for looking into the cinema smooth, I pretty much only watch letterboxed 24p content and would love t get my calibration sorted for cinema smooth.
This was interesting. I'm using an HTPC, so I set it for 24p.
Playback was at 60Hz with CS off and 96Hz, which isn't even an option under the Intel control panel, with CS on.
An understanding of that is way over my pay grade, so on to the graphs.

Grayscale with CS off:



Grayscale with CS on. Note that the difference highlighted is between ON and OFF, not related to the default in the above graphs:



Colors with CS off:



and on, again with the difference between the two highlighted:



Here's the one that concerns me. The dotted line (arrow) following the target curve is the result with CS off. See what happens to the luminance with CS on:




I guess if you ONLY watch 24p material and leave CS on, you can calibrate accordingly. I tried it with regular broadcast recordings and they looked dreadful.
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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So, what did I end up with besides a migraine and blurry vision?














Get to work, everyone!


Michael
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post
Is this TV has the ISF Day and ISF Night? Or just regular input modes?
I'm not sure I understand the question. It doesn't have ISF anything. Two HDMI inputs and one USB. The only equivalent to a day/night toggle might be the dark room/bright room/auto option discussed above, but I wouldn't count on that for anything.
caloyzki's Avatar caloyzki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I'm not sure I understand the question. It doesn't have ISF anything. Two HDMI inputs and one USB. The only equivalent to a day/night toggle might be the dark room/bright room/auto option discussed above, but I wouldn't count on that for anything.
Sorry if you miss understood what i meant. If i want to get this TV ISF Pro calibrated. Are they gonna do the ISF Day and ISF Night?
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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I don't know how they would; the set does not have a day/night toggle.
You would need to use the two separate HDMI inputs, since they can be calibrated separately.

I think.

karlpoe's Avatar karlpoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post
Sorry if you miss understood what i meant. If i want to get this TV ISF Pro calibrated. Are they gonna do the ISF Day and ISF Night?
There are CAL DAY and CAL NIGHT modes that can be activated from within the service menu. Your calibrator should be able to enable them when they do the calibration.
afwjam's Avatar afwjam
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Guess I have my work cut out for me. Thank you for looking into it. I have the cinema smooth settings on the movie mode and 60p settings set on the standard mode. Now I just need a meter. I have filed a warranty service claim with samsung for the pink push, let's see if they can do anything about it.
fsi's Avatar fsi
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Very detailed and interesting , what do your primary and secondary sweep results look like though . Auto will get the closest to hitting 100% saturation points on an f5500 but anything below 100% is under saturated , Native gets better throughout out the saturation points but has that skewed green , off course an f5500 doesn't have a cms , another thing is I noticed you are using brightness off 55 and getting high mll , 0.026 on these sets is a little high.Have only seen those numbers with abl patterns.
StinDaWg's Avatar StinDaWg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I guess if you ONLY watch 24p material and leave CS on, you can calibrate accordingly. I tried it with regular broadcast recordings and they looked dreadful.
I don't have a meter, but I don't notice anything drastically different between 24p/60p content at the same settings. Could you eleborate on why you think it looks "dreadful"?
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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Actually used the ColorHCFR APL patterns on the AVS disc.
75% large patterns for color.

And I have since lowered brightness from 55 to 45.
See, it never ends.

I do think I'll go to sleep now, though.
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
I don't have a meter, but I don't notice anything drastically different between 24p/60p content at the same settings. Could you eleborate on why you think it looks "dreadful"?
Lots of motion blur that has never been evident otherwise. Probably watchable for someone who wasn't paying much attention, but I tend to pay attention.
BDs looked great, but recorded OTA did not.
Not something for which I needed (or probably even could verify with) a meter.
StinDaWg's Avatar StinDaWg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Lots of motion blur that has never been evident otherwise. Probably watchable for someone who wasn't paying much attention, but I tend to pay attention.
BDs looked great, but recorded OTA did not.
Not something for which I needed (or probably even could verify with) a meter.
I don't see any motion blur on true 60fps content. Looks smooth as a babies ass.

Are you sure you aren't just seeing pulldown judder from 24p tv programs converted to 59.94 fps for broadcast?
fierce_gt's Avatar fierce_gt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
You think you're the only one?! Hence, my experiment.




Testing was done under normal viewing conditions. An open family room with an overhead fluorescent light on in the adjacent kitchen. I'm leaving it (for now) on dark room. Does anyone know where the "ambient sensor" is?
I've heard it's by the remote sensor, never investigated myself. wasn't even aware it had one until the discussion about the 'auto' setting came up. anyway, seems as though your room qualifies as 'bright room' I guess. I have no lights on in my room normally, and if I do, it's dimmed behind my seating about 18ft from the tv


Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Contrast is just the difference between 100% and 0%; gamma is a more complicated function at each point along the line. Black tone definitely seems to affect just the low end. You want to end up with a distinct difference between 0%, 5% and 10%, for example. Too dark a brightness setting and they all look alike ("crushed" blacks).

right, so, why would black tone nearly quadruple contrast? was 0% not set correctly before? or did black tone actually decrease the MLL of the panel?




Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
As long as the HTPC and the monitor are set the same way, you're okay. I think.
And, once it's set, there's no reason to change it.
was my understanding as well, still, it seems like having 256 steps should be better than having 220. but since 'video' uses the 16-235 standard, I opted to just stay with that. I guess I get confused because it seems like even if using 0-255, you're supposed to set the display so that 16 is 'black'. so what's the point of the extended range if you just crush those levels anyway? so confused about this still




Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
The problem with "default" is that everyone's "default" is different. So I tried to start with some "standard." The result of changing a menu setting from point A to point B will probably be the same.
yeah. it's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I just thought, since you were showing relative differences, it would be interesting to see the change between default settings, or between best case after calibration settings. maybe both warm1 and warm2 can be calibrated right to 6500k, maybe they can't. I don't know. guess that's why I was interested.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
You're welcome. Maybe you're convinced to get a meter and join the fun?

Michael
it's definitely on the list of things to buy. I'm just torn on how much I want to get into it. at one point I had myself convinced one of those spyder units was the perfect solution for me, but further research put a stop to that notion. now it's like a whole new world of choices and I don't know where to begin. I'm a little worried i'll end up driving myself nuts with constant tweaking and testing, and never just watch movies if I buy one, haha.
fierce_gt's Avatar fierce_gt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
This was interesting. I'm using an HTPC, so I set it for 24p.
Playback was at 60Hz with CS off and 96Hz, which isn't even an option under the Intel control panel, with CS on.
An understanding of that is way over my pay grade, so on to the graphs.
I'm pretty sure cinema smooth is processing to display 24hz content at 96hz. I'm not sure if anything special is actually done, but 24x4=96 so at the very least each frame shown 4x consecutively. that's where the 96hz comes from. I guess it's kind of like lcd's with 120hz processing...
afwjam's Avatar afwjam
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Has anyone else had any luck calibrating the Cinema Smooth mode accurately? Would be curious to try anyones settings until I get my own meter or find someone who has one. I think that when you are watching broadcast television or regular 60P content, even if the cinema smooth is set on, you are still seeing it at 60hz, if you go into the menu cinema smooth is greyed out. Only when you are inputing a 24p source will it let you change the cinema smooth setting and its not greyed. The problem it seems is the colors and gamma change significantly with the cinema smooth on. I mostly watch HD movies in letterbox and really appreciate having a working 24P setting.
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Are you sure you aren't just seeing pulldown judder from 24p tv programs converted to 59.94 fps for broadcast?
Maybe. Whatever it was, I didn't enjoy it. And what I have now I enjoy very much, so I'm good.
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I'm a little worried i'll end up driving myself nuts with constant tweaking and testing, and never just watch movies if I buy one, haha.
Yup.


Just a different aspect of a fun hobby, which you can take as seriously as you like.
afwjam's Avatar afwjam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Maybe. Whatever it was, I didn't enjoy it. And what I have now I enjoy very much, so I'm good.

You know I had the same problem. My friend and I were talking about it right after I got my set and he was complaining about motion judder on gravity in 24p on his set. Sure enough I watched the intro scene in 24p and it looked like ****, watched it in 60p and honestly thought it looked better. Next night decided to watch alien with the girlfriend who had never seen it, same sort of space panning shots with lots of motion judder at first.... About halfway through alien I switched back to 24P during part of the movie without much motion and just watched the rest of the movie in 24P. Well after about fifteen minutes I mention to my girlfriend how much smoother the motion looked on a whole, she said she was just about to mention how much she felt like she was at a movie theater and how "cinema" like it looked. Its very interesting how our brains play tricks on us, I think its the same when we first look at a "dark dull" calibrated tv after watching standard mode.

We have been watching nothing but 24P now and I do not notice motion judder anymore, even in gravity, its like a switch flipped and I don't see it like I did at first. Same thing when I start watching in 60P, switch flipped, the telecline cadence looks like complete ****, movies look jerky in 60P, the motion stutters the entire time, the cinema effect is completely lost. I thought I was crazy, I explained it to my friend who tried 24P again for a longer period of time, he at first tried to say it looked better this time and a setting must have been changed in the tv or cinema smooth was not working right before. We have figured out it is all just a trick of the mind, you have to give your mind time to adjust to the 24P cadence and then you will see how much better it looks, even with the motion judder(which you will stop noticing), its a million times better then the 3:2 pull down motion of the 60P.

Some food for thought, I have been reading about the glory that is true 24P playback since I bought my XA2 HDDVD player back in the day and was stuck with a 1080i/720P RPCRTV. Ive had the full theater surround, HD content native to 24P and have just been missing a 24P capable display until now.... I will never go back.

Try again and leave it on through a whole 1080P 24P movie, see what it looks like after your brain adjusts and switches.
LastButNotLeast's Avatar LastButNotLeast
03:04 PM Liked: 290
post #29 of 81
07-07-2014 | Posts: 4,856
Joined: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
Try again and leave it on through a whole 1080P 24P movie, see what it looks like after your brain adjusts and switches.
A good thought, though, as I get older, adjusting the brain takes more time than it used to.

Movies are not a problem, and, if that's all I watched, leaving it at 24p would be a no-brainer. It was with recorded OTA TV where the problem became evident. And it's too hard/I'm too lazy to switch back and forth.
afwjam's Avatar afwjam
04:51 PM Liked: 11
post #30 of 81
07-07-2014 | Posts: 149
Joined: Nov 2006
Shoot dude you did say that. Lol so wrapped up in my 24p pleasure I forgot you mentioned the issues was with 60p content. I have left cinema smooth on now permanently, however when I view 60p content the TV automatically switches cinema smooth off as verified by hitting info and checking the greyed out "off" in the cinema smooth menu. Does this not happen with yours? I'm wondering if it's just an issue of the strange calibration when enabling cinema smooth that effects you? I have not been able to figure out if when you input 60p with cinema smooth enabled if it still has the odd calibration settings of the cinema smooth. I need a meter to test all that but maybe you could try it. I am playing zelda on my wii u right now and it is coming in at 60p smoothly despite the fact that I have left cinema smooth enabled for my movies in the evening for the past couple days.

I need to figure out if I need to use two different calibrations for 24p and 60p when leaving the cinema smooth option enabled in the menu and just switching the input frame rate.

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