2009 Plasma TV vs 2014 LED TV, worth upgrading? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 07-15-2014, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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2009 Plasma TV vs 2014 LED TV, worth upgrading?

Just looking for some opinions or first hand knowledge here. I have a Panasonic TC-P58V10 from 2009. I love plasma but it's black levels don't wow me anymore and I'm thinking about upgrading. Specifically I'm looking at the Samsung UN65F8000. I'm just wondering, is a newer top tier led TV going to be any better than what I have now in terms of picture quality? Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 33 Old 07-15-2014, 11:15 PM
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Why not a pn64f8500?

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post #3 of 33 Old 07-15-2014, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripper2020 View Post
Just looking for some opinions or first hand knowledge here. I have a Panasonic TC-P58V10 from 2009. I love plasma but it's black levels don't wow me anymore and I'm thinking about upgrading. Specifically I'm looking at the Samsung UN65F8000. I'm just wondering, is a newer top tier led TV going to be any better than what I have now in terms of picture quality? Thanks in advance.
Only in a bright room. Otherwise stick with your plasma and wait for oled to become more affordable, otherwise if you want to buy now look into another panasonic plasma (in many palces they are sold out, but not in all ie: where I live) or a samsung plasma.
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post #4 of 33 Old 07-15-2014, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
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@ TahoeDust, I find good deals on the un65f8000 quite often, however never the pn648500. I feel like the price isn't going to go down at all because samsung announced it's no longer making plasmas. I wanted to keep my budget @ 2k....which I've seen the un65f8000 for.
@FilmReverie , Thanks for the info. I'll keep looking for plasma deals but they seem few and far between these days.
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post #5 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 06:29 AM
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I doubt you would be happy apart from the size. I watched Gravity on my plasma and then viewed it on someone's 4k curved H9000. The 4k might as well have been a Westinghouse. There was absolutely no ability to produce good blacks. Terrible motion blur. Only non-space scenes look good.

If you do not care about movies or motion, and casually watch TV, then yeah go for it. However, I'd buy a 60" F8500 if I were you even if only 2" larger. It goes blacker, and brighter (i think).

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post #6 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by skidawgz View Post
I doubt you would be happy apart from the size. I watched Gravity on my plasma and then viewed it on someone's 4k curved H9000. The 4k might as well have been a Westinghouse. There was absolutely no ability to produce good blacks. Terrible motion blur. Only non-space scenes look good.

If you do not care about movies or motion, and casually watch TV, then yeah go for it. However, I'd buy a 60" F8500 if I were you even if only 2" larger. It goes blacker, and brighter (i think).
Thanks. I think i'll just hold out for OLED to become affordable...hopefully my plasma lasts long enough. Sounds like lcd tv's still suck...I was hoping there were improvements in the last 5 years.
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post #7 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 12:21 PM
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F8000 is better than your 2009 plasma in every way . Lcd has improved a lot and the F8000 is an excellent set . Get an F5300 as a budget improvement or an F8500 if you want to stick with plasma , PNF8500 is better than the UNF8000 , F5300 will run it close at a much lower price.H5000 is also an option .

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post #8 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripper2020 View Post
Just looking for some opinions or first hand knowledge here. I have a Panasonic TC-P58V10 from 2009. I love plasma but it's black levels don't wow me anymore and I'm thinking about upgrading. Specifically I'm looking at the Samsung UN65F8000. I'm just wondering, is a newer top tier led TV going to be any better than what I have now in terms of picture quality? Thanks in advance.
I just had a first hand experience with this. Replaced my 2009 Samsung Plasma PN50A550 with a Vizio M652-B2 yesterday. After calibrating, I was surprised how blacks looked better on the Vizio than my Samsung. It went against my own logic but there there was no denying the difference. Note: I have not seen the TV yet under bright conditions so my view on this may change. I was hesitant with the purchase but glad I went through with it.
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post #9 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by antman006 View Post
I just had a first hand experience with this. Replaced my 2009 Samsung Plasma PN50A550 with a Vizio M652-B2 yesterday. After calibrating, I was surprised how blacks looked better on the Vizio than my Samsung. It went against my own logic but there there was no denying the difference. Note: I have not seen the TV yet under bright conditions so my view on this may change. I was hesitant with the purchase but glad I went through with it.
Interesting, now I'm on the fence again!! Let me know if your opinion of the vizio changes.
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post #10 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 01:59 PM
 
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These middle of the road plasmas from 2009 have most certainly been eclipsed by FALD sets of recent years when referring specifically to black levels.
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post #11 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
These middle of the road plasmas from 2009 have most certainly been eclipsed by FALD sets of recent years when referring specifically to black levels.
What about my panasonic? I think it was high end at the time...but there was also the diminishing black levels fiasco for that particular set.
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post #12 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by skidawgz View Post
I doubt you would be happy apart from the size. I watched Gravity on my plasma and then viewed it on someone's 4k curved H9000. The 4k might as well have been a Westinghouse. There was absolutely no ability to produce good blacks. Terrible motion blur. Only non-space scenes look good.

If you do not care about movies or motion, and casually watch TV, then yeah go for it. However, I'd buy a 60" F8500 if I were you even if only 2" larger. It goes blacker, and brighter (i think).
i thought the h9000 looked very nice yesterday. Now, it was at bestbuy in a bright setting but the picture looked awesome
I dont doubt what you are saying though, as I havent seen it in a black room
the 78' is a big selling point to me, but even a this point, the price is too high
4k oleds are going to cost a ton o $$$$$
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post #13 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 02:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ripper2020 View Post
What about my panasonic? I think it was high end at the time...but there was also the diminishing black levels fiasco for that particular set.
I'd say yes for that set as well, especially given the rising MLL.
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post #14 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ripper2020 View Post
Thanks. I think i'll just hold out for OLED to become affordable...hopefully my plasma lasts long enough. Sounds like lcd tv's still suck...I was hoping there were improvements in the last 5 years.
the 4k H9000 is a curved LED. I don't think 4k or curves are anything but gimmick below the 70" TV size.

On a showroom floor, especially the new samsung display with two 65" and one 78" curve it keeps looping bright outdoor pictures. If your BBY has a Magnolia, the 65" curve should also be on display showing some other content that Magnolia sales folk can control. Ask to see something dark... Tron Legacy, Batman movie, Gravity and see what you think of the TV after that.

There's a flat 75" Samsung 4k showing Transformers trailer off at my local store. The motion is subpar.

My original suggestion was to get the top Samsung plasma, the F8500 in 60" if you are looking for a picture quality improvement. If you get bored of that in 5+ years lets hope that FALD or OLED are more commonplace and affordable. Just my $.02

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post #15 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 04:23 PM
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I had a Samsung 50B850 plasma. Same vintage as your V10. I donated the old plasma within the family and am still surprised by the quality of the picture.
I had a 2013 Series 5 sammy plasma for a brief time and currently own a 60F8500 plasma and 50F8000 led.
My thoughts:
  • Beware of reflections from the screen on the series 5 plasmas. I couldn't deal with them compared to the 2009 Series 8.
  • Beware of narrow viewing angles on the F8000 led. This is my 1st led and I was surprised how quickly the image washes out as you move to the side. I have no issues with motion blur btw. The picture is great with real 'pop' depending on the source.
  • The F8500 is a gem If I were you, I'd hang on to your V10 while looking for a deal on an F8500

As far as black levels go, I have my F8000 with a backlight of 8 (out of 20) and they are OK, but not comparable to the F8500. Obviously I can't compare to your V10, but as you say the black levels have gotten worse over time

Good luck!
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post #16 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ripper2020 View Post
What about my panasonic? I think it was high end at the time...but there was also the diminishing black levels fiasco for that particular set.
Just a heads up, there's a workaround that's being developed for the rising black panasonics. I have a G10 and am awaiting the product to come out for purchase. You can also build one yourself. It resets the hours on the tv so it reverts to the original black levels. I think you would have to reset it every so often. Here's the last page of the thread, you may want to go back further to get more info on it's release, there's info on how to make your own in there too.

Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight?
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post #17 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markus46 View Post
I had a Samsung 50B850 plasma. Same vintage as your V10. I donated the old plasma within the family and am still surprised by the quality of the picture.
I had a 2013 Series 5 sammy plasma for a brief time and currently own a 60F8500 plasma and 50F8000 led.
My thoughts:
  • Beware of reflections from the screen on the series 5 plasmas. I couldn't deal with them compared to the 2009 Series 8.
  • Beware of narrow viewing angles on the F8000 led. This is my 1st led and I was surprised how quickly the image washes out as you move to the side. I have no issues with motion blur btw. The picture is great with real 'pop' depending on the source.
  • The F8500 is a gem If I were you, I'd hang on to your V10 while looking for a deal on an F8500

As far as black levels go, I have my F8000 with a backlight of 8 (out of 20) and they are OK, but not comparable to the F8500. Obviously I can't compare to your V10, but as you say the black levels have gotten worse over time

Good luck!
Just curious, how does your old samsung 50B850 compare to the new f8000 led? Thanks for all the info!
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post #18 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by whipit View Post
Just a heads up, there's a workaround that's being developed for the rising black panasonics. I have a G10 and am awaiting the product to come out for purchase. You can also build one yourself. It resets the hours on the tv so it reverts to the original black levels. I think you would have to reset it every so often. Here's the last page of the thread, you may want to go back further to get more info on it's release, there's info on how to make your own in there too.

Panasonic 11G/12G/13G black levels have seemingly doubled overnight?
Sweet, thanks I'll check this out tonight!
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post #19 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ripper2020 View Post
@ TahoeDust, I find good deals on the un65f8000 quite often, however never the pn648500. I feel like the price isn't going to go down at all because samsung announced it's no longer making plasmas. I wanted to keep my budget @ 2k....which I've seen the un65f8000 for.
@FilmReverie, Thanks for the info. I'll keep looking for plasma deals but they seem few and far between these days.
there's a reason the f8000 goes on sale while the f8500 does not.


the f8500 really is a MUCH better tv imo. better blacks, nearly the same brightness, I'd say better screen filter, better viewing angle. the only real downside is the potentially higher price, and some of the 'issues' that come with plasma(all totally worth it imo).


the f8000 may still be a 'upgrade' in some ways to your 2009 panny, but I just wouldn't recommend it if you're planning to do any movie viewing in a dim or dark room. I still have a lot of issues with the clouding on these edgelit models, even with the dimming. and if you're going to go with LCD, there's some possibly better options from sony, and possibly better values from vizio that are worth comparing at least. basically, I don't see any reason to 'rush' into an LCD right now, in fact, I'd say it's the time to wait and see how the 2014 models settle in and try to find that diamond in the rough. the only reason I'd buy a tv right now, is if it were to get one of the Samsung plasmas while you still can.
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post #20 of 33 Old 07-16-2014, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antman006 View Post
I just had a first hand experience with this. Replaced my 2009 Samsung Plasma PN50A550 with a Vizio M652-B2 yesterday. After calibrating, I was surprised how blacks looked better on the Vizio than my Samsung. It went against my own logic but there there was no denying the difference. Note: I have not seen the TV yet under bright conditions so my view on this may change. I was hesitant with the purchase but glad I went through with it.
in all fairness though, if your a550 was anything like my b530, the blacks on that plasma were terrible anyway. I've had several lcds(even cheap ones like a dynex) that produced as good or better blacks than my b530 plasma. I was actually super pissed I even bought that tv. I was told if I wanted deep blacks I had to go plasma, I wasn't told that I had to go premium plasma


I just can't imagine the v10 having as poor a black level as the entry level Samsung of the same year. that'd be kind of like the f5300 having the same PQ as the ZT60, and actually, that's probably way closer to being true since Samsung really seems to have stepped it up on black levels in 2013. a better comparison might be the E550 vs VT50
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post #21 of 33 Old 07-17-2014, 01:14 AM
 
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The F8500 is great for u.
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post #22 of 33 Old 07-17-2014, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
in all fairness though, if your a550 was anything like my b530, the blacks on that plasma were terrible anyway. I've had several lcds(even cheap ones like a dynex) that produced as good or better blacks than my b530 plasma. I was actually super pissed I even bought that tv. I was told if I wanted deep blacks I had to go plasma, I wasn't told that I had to go premium plasma


I just can't imagine the v10 having as poor a black level as the entry level Samsung of the same year. that'd be kind of like the f5300 having the same PQ as the ZT60, and actually, that's probably way closer to being true since Samsung really seems to have stepped it up on black levels in 2013. a better comparison might be the E550 vs VT50
The 5300 is not even close to the zt or vt. Nor would an e550 hold a candle to a vt50. Are you serious ?
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post #23 of 33 Old 07-17-2014, 05:57 AM
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F8000 is better than your 2009 plasma in every way .
Yes, like viewing angle. Your 2009 plasma can't compete with the F8000 here.
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post #24 of 33 Old 07-17-2014, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripper2020 View Post
Just looking for some opinions or first hand knowledge here. I have a Panasonic TC-P58V10 from 2009. I love plasma but it's black levels don't wow me anymore and I'm thinking about upgrading. Specifically I'm looking at the Samsung UN65F8000. I'm just wondering, is a newer top tier led TV going to be any better than what I have now in terms of picture quality? Thanks in advance.
Ripper,
I'm in the same boat as you.
I have a 2009 Plasma set (Samsung 63B590) that I would love to upgrade to something larger...
at least 70".


Just yesterday I went to the local Best Buy / Magnolia and had a look at the new Sony X900B & X950B sets. They look absolutely stellar when viewed straight on with inky blacks and amazing contrast. HOWEVER... to my eyes the excellent contrast becomes washed out very quickly as you
move slightly left or right from the prime seating position.


As a plasma owner this quick drop off in picture quality stands out like a sore thumb.


FWIW...My advice is to shop around for a good price on the 64F8500.
You won't be disappointed.
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post #25 of 33 Old 07-17-2014, 08:18 AM
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Yes, like viewing angle. Your 2009 plasma can't compete with the F8000 here.
lol.Correction,better in every way except viewing angle .
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post #26 of 33 Old 07-17-2014, 09:52 AM
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I'd say it's the time to wait and see how the 2014 models settle in and try to find that diamond in the rough. the only reason I'd buy a tv right now, is if it were to get one of the Samsung plasmas while you still can.
I think this is good advice. If you sit off-angle, and you like plasma, which you appear to, then go to a retailer that carries the Samsung plasmas to see them for yourself. Yes, the F8500 is a great TV, but pricey. It was a contender for me last year, but I found the Panasonic S64 and decided I'd rather go large (65") than get the much smaller (50", I think) F8500.

While at Sears last night I was looking at a 60" Samsung plasma that looked very nice. It was next to a Samsung LED and off-angle the colors on the LED shifted badly.

The Samsung plasmas are still out there, so you have some more time to decide. If your Panny is working, then maybe you should just keep it and see what comes out next year. The only reason to rush would be if you think you won't be happy with LCD (FALD or not), and would prefer a plasma.
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post #27 of 33 Old 07-17-2014, 10:05 AM
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About a month ago I replaced my 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma with and 75" f8000 led TV.

This is what I think:

The Kuro is a better tv for contrast reproduction under subdued lighting condition. Can't beat those blacks and shadow details. I miss them!!
However, this Led tv is not a slouch. I had it calibrated and the whites are pure, the colors are quite good. Beside the angle of view, I think it's a great tv.
Black level are decent enough. BUT, I went for the size and I'm happy with it.
If there was a same-size plasma I would have jumped on it...maybe. Or, maybe because in day time I now found out that in my bright room The f8000 is perfect, unlike the plasma.

Again, the led comes in bigger size and that could be a priority for some- as long as the tv is a quality Led like the f8000.

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post #28 of 33 Old 07-17-2014, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ripper2020 View Post
Just curious, how does your old samsung 50B850 compare to the new f8000 led? Thanks for all the info!
mmm I watched both sets last night.
Hard to say as they are now in different houses with way different viewing conditions (bedroom vs loungeroom). If you put a gun to my head and told me I had to decide, I'd give the nod to the F8000.
Both were calibrated by eye using the Spears & Munsil disc btw.

I do prefer the plasma 'look', but as I watched the F8000 last night (Criminal Minds 720p) I couldn't help but think "I'm impressed".

Regards
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post #29 of 33 Old 07-17-2014, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
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About a month ago I replaced my 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma with and 75" f8000 led TV.

This is what I think:

The Kuro is a better tv for contrast reproduction under subdued lighting condition. Can't beat those blacks and shadow details. I miss them!!
However, this Led tv is not a slouch. I had it calibrated and the whites are pure, the colors are quite good. Beside the angle of view, I think it's a great tv.
Black level are decent enough. BUT, I went for the size and I'm happy with it.
If there was a same-size plasma I would have jumped on it...maybe. Or, maybe because in day time I now found out that in my bright room The f8000 is perfect, unlike the plasma.

Again, the led comes in bigger size and that could be a priority for some- as long as the tv is a quality Led like the f8000.
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I think this is good advice. If you sit off-angle, and you like plasma, which you appear to, then go to a retailer that carries the Samsung plasmas to see them for yourself. Yes, the F8500 is a great TV, but pricey. It was a contender for me last year, but I found the Panasonic S64 and decided I'd rather go large (65") than get the much smaller (50", I think) F8500.

While at Sears last night I was looking at a 60" Samsung plasma that looked very nice. It was next to a Samsung LED and off-angle the colors on the LED shifted badly.

The Samsung plasmas are still out there, so you have some more time to decide. If your Panny is working, then maybe you should just keep it and see what comes out next year. The only reason to rush would be if you think you won't be happy with LCD (FALD or not), and would prefer a plasma.
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Originally Posted by markus46 View Post
mmm I watched both sets last night.
Hard to say as they are now in different houses with way different viewing conditions (bedroom vs loungeroom). If you put a gun to my head and told me I had to decide, I'd give the nod to the F8000.
Both were calibrated by eye using the Spears & Munsil disc btw.

I do prefer the plasma 'look', but as I watched the F8000 last night (Criminal Minds 720p) I couldn't help but think "I'm impressed".

Regards
Just like to say this is all awesome information and helps quite a bit. I was worried I would get some flack for not being technical enough about my questions, but this is EXACTLY the type of info I was looking for.

I think my plan of attack is to see if any deals pop up for the 8500 and if not, wait for oled to become affordable. The LG 55" oled is already available around $4500, which isn't insane. If my v10 dies in the mean time, I think I could live with a decent lcd to hold me over until OLED.
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post #30 of 33 Old 07-18-2014, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ripper2020 View Post
Just like to say this is all awesome information and helps quite a bit. I was worried I would get some flack for not being technical enough about my questions, but this is EXACTLY the type of info I was looking for.

I think my plan of attack is to see if any deals pop up for the 8500 and if not, wait for oled to become affordable. The LG 55" oled is already available around $4500, which isn't insane. If my v10 dies in the mean time, I think I could live with a decent lcd to hold me over until OLED.
that sounds like a great plan to me. you've got all your bases covered
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