My thoughts on the 60" Pentile F5300 Samsung Plasma - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 131 Old 07-29-2014, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
This has confused me all along.
From x-rite's website:
"i1DISPLAY PRO INCLUDES
i1Display colorimeter"
and there's no mention of a D3.
From the box:
"i1Display is the world's first spectrally calibrated colorimeter!"
Until now, I thought the names Pro and D3 were interchangeable.
The iD3 is the i1Display Pro. There is a different product called the i1 Pro (no display).
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post #92 of 131 Old 07-29-2014, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I calibrate with an i1 Display Pro (see above), whatever that means.
Anyway, at some point, probably when I posted the "settings" thread, Y = 0.052 @ 0.015 ftL.
Now, Y = 0.026 @ 0.008 ftL.
Tomorrow, who knows?
Thanks for the info. Your first reading seems a little on the high side.

Orion shared with me his measures via pm, figured I'd post here for the collective knowledge of this wonderful forum :

Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001
Regarding black level measures...with Black Tone at Dark and Black Optimizer to Dark Room, I consistently measure 0.004 - 0.005 ftL with CinemaSmooth on (Cinema Smooth increases black level a bit due to higher refresh rate of 96Hz at which frames are displayed). With CinemaSmooth off, I seem to be measuring 0.002 ftL fairly consistently.
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post #93 of 131 Old 07-29-2014, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post
Orion shared with me his measures via pm, figured I'd post here for the collective knowledge of this wonderful forum :
It occurred to me yesterday that my Vs and Ve voltage drops when tweaking my panel to reduce the red-tint issue may have dropped my black levels by some amount. Unfortunately I don't have measurements for when Vs was at the default level.
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post #94 of 131 Old 07-29-2014, 12:20 PM
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I have roughly 300 hours on my panel now and it seems to be breaking in nicely. I will be ordering a i1 pro soon as Ryan gave me the push I needed to go through with this.

Hopefully within the next month I'll be well on my way to a nice tight calibration and learning every step of the way.

As for the pink push. It is very minimal on my tv if at all. I can't spot it out and neither can anyone I ask although I do get some maybe it looks a tiny bit pink idk? But the screen seems to be uniform rather than only showing pink in some places so I'm not worried.

For me the issue is so minimal i don't notice it and for the price if the panel it's totally worth it. Nothing is perfect and the trade offs for this model are def worth it!
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post #95 of 131 Old 07-29-2014, 11:37 PM
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Well, today is the final day on the return policy of my 60F5300. I have been going back and forth in my head and still haven't decided yet what to do. I basically have 3 options:

1. Return the tv and hope Sears doesn't give me any hassle about a full refund (I've read enough horror stories about people going through this to know it's not likely to be easy).
2. Exchange the tv and hope that I don't get another with pink tint (highly unlikely considering all the reports here). If I do this then I lose $140 worth of online cashback and credits. According to Sears return policy once you do an exchange, you can only keep exchanging for another, you lose the ability to return it for a refund.
3. Live with the fact that I can see a pink tint on bright scenes, considering that I only paid $580 for this. In a month if it doesn't get any better give Samsung a call and see if they will do anything to fix it, whether by adjusting the voltages or changing the panel/boards. Of course the risk I run here is they say the tv is operating within spec, so I'm SOL.

The only other tv I would consider buying is the 64H5000. It's the only decent plasma left that's not several thousand dollars. Although there aren't a ton of reviews out there, I've heard no reports of pink issues or DSE. Black levels are lower than F5300, panel should be uniform, 4" bigger. Only con is it's double the price and pentile, although that's pretty much a non-issue to me coming from this tv. Only other option is to dig into some front projector research, although going that route comes with a whole other list of caveats.

I really do love the picture on this set besides the pink tint and DSE I can see during slow pans on bright backgrounds. Black level fluctuations with Cinema Smooth on can be a little distracting but not a deal breaker. Other than that it completely destroys my 5 years old 50" Panasonic plasma with black level rise. It looks like a cheap lcd in comparison.

Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001
Regarding black level measures...with Black Tone at Dark and Black Optimizer to Dark Room, I consistently measure 0.004 - 0.005 ftL with CinemaSmooth on (Cinema Smooth increases black level a bit due to higher refresh rate of 96Hz at which frames are displayed). With CinemaSmooth off, I seem to be measuring 0.002 ftL fairly consistently.
This is interesting because I thought the CS black level rise issue had been fixed in a firmware update. Since the day I got my set I've always used it with Cinema Smooth on because I wanted better motion. I just turned it off and now blacks look a little darker, and I no longer notice black fluctuations with dark room optimizer turned on. I went back and checked a few scenes where I definitely saw it, and now either it's gone or the change is unnoticeable due to the lower starting black levels. Very disappointed to see that hasn't been fixed, but kind of relieved I can't see the fluctuations anymore.

If you have access to Orange is the New Black, this is a good place to test for this effect. At the end of every episode the screen goes full orange, and then fades to black credits. With CS on, there is a half second delay in blacks getting darker, with it off, there is no noticeable change in black level during screen transition.

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post #96 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Tough call.

Personally, my deciding factor would be how bad the pink tint is. With my sears F5300 set (payed $699), it was BAD. I could see it pretty much all the time if I looked for it. With my costco F5350 (payed $749 +$50 membership) it is barely there.

For what you paid ($580), if the pink tint isnt too bad, I'd keep it. I also watch a lot of letterbox movies where it doesn't come into play whatsoever. If I watched primarily only full screen stuff I may not be happy with any pink tint.
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post #97 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 07:29 AM
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Are you willing to try orion/tom's voltage mods?

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post #98 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post
Tough call.

Personally, my deciding factor would be how bad the pink tint is. With my sears F5300 set (payed $699), it was BAD. I could see it pretty much all the time if I looked for it. With my costco F5350 (payed $749 +$50 membership) it is barely there.

For what you paid ($580), if the pink tint isnt too bad, I'd keep it. I also watch a lot of letterbox movies where it doesn't come into play whatsoever. If I watched primarily only full screen stuff I may not be happy with any pink tint.
I can pretty much see it all the time on any lighter colors. Browsing on AVSForums is particularly bad. I think the background is supposed to be light blue, but half of it looks purple because of the tint. Almost as annoying as the pink tint is the DSE. It's really noticeable on camera pans. God save us all if there are no quality tvs left until OLED takes over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Are you willing to try orion/tom's voltage mods?
Maybe as a last resort if I keep it, but I'm not cracking it open and messing with anything when it's still under warranty.

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post #99 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
I can pretty much see it all the time on any lighter colors. Browsing on AVSForums is particularly bad. I think the background is supposed to be light blue, but half of it looks purple because of the tint. Almost as annoying as the pink tint is the DSE. It's really noticeable on camera pans.
That sounds exactly like the set I got from sears.

It is so mild on my new set that I have questioned whether it is still there and purposefully put up something to test (it is still there). It may be getting better, I'm not sure. I should take a measurement with my colorimeter and track it.

I'd return it if I were you - try again with another F5300 or F5350, but your costs will go up a nice chunk (if you have a costco near you, their 90 day no question no box or receipt needed return policy may come in handy). Go the F5000 route for a little more ... or F plasma and check out the projection option I've seen you mention a few times .
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post #100 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 09:03 AM
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Well, looks like I'm stuck with it. I contacted Sears and they said the return policy is 30 days from purchase not delivery. I purchased it 36 days ago so they said I need to contact Sears Home Service or the manufacturer for warranty. I asked them if I could get any discount for my troubles, and the chat robot credited me 5% which knocked the bill down another $34 to $546. The funny thing is they said they were giving it to me since I was a valued customer, but I think this is the only thing I've bought from Sears in the past 10 years lol. I'll have to contact Samsung and see what they'll do. It's pretty damn noticeable, so if they tell me this is within spec I'm not sure the guy will be making it out the front door. The only thing keeping me from losing my mind over this is the price I paid for it, if this was the F8500 and I paid $3000 I'd probably be drinking myself into the ground today.

Has anyone had any experience with warranty service? Do they actually send a Samsung tech out or is it just a local repair man, and do they try to fix it on spot or have to come back later with the right equipment? The pint tint gets worse the longer the tv is on, so I'll be sure to keep it running nice and long before they get here.

Truth be told, I'll be pretty happy if I can get the pink tint ironed out. It's kind of crazy to think this thing costs less than an iphone or ipad.

Ryan or anyone else, did either of your sets have DSE, and if so is one worse than the other? Mine is not so terrible that I see it during web browsing or anything, but during movies with camera pans like the sky, the vertical bars are really noticeable. I've seen people say they saw it on their F8500, so I don't think any panel is really immune to it.

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post #101 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

<snip>

Has anyone had any experience with warranty service? Do they actually send a Samsung tech out or is it just a local repair man, and do they try to fix it on spot or have to come back later with the right equipment? The pint tint gets worse the longer the tv is on, so I'll be sure to keep it running nice and long before they get here.

.
Hope you have better luck than Imagic with your repair experience. (Why I Bought a Plasma HDTV in 2014)

Please let us know how you make out.
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post #102 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 09:22 AM
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Hope you have better luck than Imagic with your repair experience. (Why I Bought a Plasma HDTV in 2014)

Please let us know how you make out.
Ya, I saw that. Mine looks worse than his though. It's pretty much pink everywhere except the center. If all that's needed is a voltage adjustment, I'd like to know what the hell Samsung engineers are doing to set these the way they are out of the box.
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post #103 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Ya, I saw that. Mine looks worse than his though. It's pretty much pink everywhere except the center. If all that's needed is a voltage adjustment, I'd like to know what the hell Samsung engineers are doing to set these the way they are out of the box.
I think Samsung service can be hit or miss. I have read plenty of accounts where people have had good experiences with Samsung when under warranty as well. A lot of it really depends on the quality of the local repair shop they use for providing service. From your descriptions, it sounds like the issue is quite bad and not mild. I don't think it is worth the hassle of opening up the back and trying voltage mods. At least from my testing, none of the voltage tweaks were enough to fully eliminate the issue and with things being that bad on your panel, it is unlikely you would be able to fix it with that alone.

I would definitely contact Samsung and put in a warranty repair claim. Take good pictures of the issue as they may ask for you to send them. If it is as bad as you say, I don't think any tech can claim it is within spec. My set on the other hand...there is a good chance it would be claimed to be within spec after my voltage tweaks as the tint at the bottom of the screen is very mild and only really noticeable (slightly) when viewing black and white, non letterboxed movies.
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post #104 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
It's pretty much pink everywhere except the center.
If that's the case, have you tried just turning down the red a couple of clicks?

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post #105 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Ryan, I'd recommend doing a full Saturation sweep and color checker (Select Measures->All Colors) to see how this calibration performs at lower saturation levels.
I tried that and got an error message. I did my cal at 75%, which should help.
I'll try again some other time.
Glad it worked great for you.

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post #106 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 02:14 PM
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I tried that and got an error message. I did my cal at 75%, which should help.
I'll try again some other time.
Glad it worked great for you.
Ah, I think "All colors" may not work unless you use the internal or MadVR pattern generator for HCFR as the colors it tests are outside of the standard ones you find in most DVDs. It's pretty nice though since it has test colors for light/dark skin, sky blue, etc. I have to say that being able to use the internal HCFR pattern generator makes calibrating a breeze. There is no way I would have had the patience to get the calibration I posted earlier by manually queuing up test windows for each color/grayscale point. Using the test pattern generator really speeds things up massively!

I'd be curious to see if a calibration using a laptop output applies equally well when validated against a 16-235 device like a BluRay player.
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post #107 of 131 Old 07-30-2014, 09:07 PM
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Ah, I think "All colors" may not work unless you use the internal or MadVR pattern generator for HCFR as the colors it tests are outside of the standard ones you find in most DVDs.
I have a laptop with HDMI, so I guess I just hook that up directly to the TV? I'll try that.
I've been running the AVS BD image on my HTPC; grayscale and colors take a little over a minute per run, so not a big deal. But I'm all for trying something else.
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post #108 of 131 Old 08-04-2014, 06:25 PM
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I haven't seen any other accounts of people getting the Costco PN60F5350, does it actually have less chance of having noticeable pink tint? I'm debating whether to get the 51" PN51F5300 from BestBuy or the 60" PN60F5350 from Costco. It seems like there have been no accounts of the pink tint on the 51" PN51F5300. The 60" being pentile isn't an issue for me as I'll be sitting 6-7 ft away. Buying it from Costco I can get a 3 year SquareTrade warranty to add onto the 2 year Costco warranty. What are your thoughts? Would you mind posting a picture of the pink tint on your newer Costco set versus your previous set from Sears?
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post #109 of 131 Old 08-04-2014, 08:38 PM
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I have a laptop with HDMI, so I guess I just hook that up directly to the TV? I'll try that.
I've been running the AVS BD image on my HTPC; grayscale and colors take a little over a minute per run, so not a big deal. But I'm all for trying something else.
So I hooked up the laptop to the TV via HDMI. The picture was, of course, a slightly different color since it was now running off the video card of the laptop, not the HTPC. At which point I realized **I'M AN IDIOT!** and I installed HCFR onto the HTPC! D'oh!
Yes, indeed, running the internal pattern generator is easier, and allows running the saturations and color checker patterns. Really interesting.
I ended up with great numbers, but I think there's a little too much red. Will continue to experiment.

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post #110 of 131 Old 08-05-2014, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ddxue View Post
I haven't seen any other accounts of people getting the Costco PN60F5350, does it actually have less chance of having noticeable pink tint? I'm debating whether to get the 51" PN51F5300 from BestBuy or the 60" PN60F5350 from Costco. It seems like there have been no accounts of the pink tint on the 51" PN51F5300. The 60" being pentile isn't an issue for me as I'll be sitting 6-7 ft away. Buying it from Costco I can get a 3 year SquareTrade warranty to add onto the 2 year Costco warranty. What are your thoughts? Would you mind posting a picture of the pink tint on your newer Costco set versus your previous set from Sears?
I only know of one other report on these forums in regards to an F5350 (Costco version) and his had little/no tint. It's possible that they are made during seperate manufacturing runs and tweaked slightly different ... I have no idea. I know that just about everyone who has reported back with sets from sears or bestbuy have had the pink tint. I'd go to costco just based on their stellar return period and especially if you're considering a squaretrade warranty.

The differences are subtle enough I'm not sure a comparison photo will show much with the other camera/lcd computer monitor variables involved. I'll try to snap you a photo sometime soon though.
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post #111 of 131 Old 08-06-2014, 08:28 AM
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So I hooked up the laptop to the TV via HDMI. The picture was, of course, a slightly different color since it was now running off the video card of the laptop, not the HTPC. At which point I realized **I'M AN IDIOT!** and I installed HCFR onto the HTPC! D'oh!
Yes, indeed, running the internal pattern generator is easier, and allows running the saturations and color checker patterns. Really interesting.
I ended up with great numbers, but I think there's a little too much red. Will continue to experiment.
Glad you got it working. It does make calibrations a LOT easier this way.
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post #112 of 131 Old 08-07-2014, 03:19 AM
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Does everyone else have vertical banding aka dirty screen effect (DSE) on their 60 inchers?

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post #113 of 131 Old 08-07-2014, 08:53 AM
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Does everyone else have vertical banding aka dirty screen effect (DSE) on their 60 inchers?
I have very minor DSE. Hardly ever noticeable in movies. On rare occasions it is slightly noticeable, but not really distracting. I think I also am more nit-picky and tend to look for these things
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post #114 of 131 Old 08-07-2014, 02:23 PM
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Just purchased this TV at Costco this morning. Will set it up this evening just in time for some preseason football. I'll post my initial impressions of the set later. I'm sure I will not be disappointed!
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post #115 of 131 Old 08-14-2014, 12:09 PM
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Just purchased this TV at Costco this morning. Will set it up this evening just in time for some preseason football. I'll post my initial impressions of the set later. I'm sure I will not be disappointed!
Any update on your impression for the Costco version. Especially football. I am considering returning the h6300 for this plasma at Costco because I am not that happy with picture of the lcd.

TR
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post #116 of 131 Old 08-14-2014, 07:07 PM
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Any update on your impression for the Costco version. Especially football. I am considering returning the h6300 for this plasma at Costco because I am not that happy with picture of the lcd.

TR
Watched a little bit of preseason football last weekend and it looked great. After a week with TV the Only negative has been the reflective screen. I knew this when I bought the Tv but I didn't realize it would be as bad as it is at home. Day viewing is really reflective even with my blinds shut. You would think night viewing would be way better but unless you have all lights off it's just as reflective. I ordered the NuShield anti reflective film to see if that will help out. If it doesn't work out, With football season coming up and my beloved Niners playing the majority of their games at 1pm, I might end of returning the tv despite the awesome picture quality. Funny thing is that I'm actually been looking into the h6300. What don't you like about the picture?
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post #117 of 131 Old 08-15-2014, 07:21 AM
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Tilting the screen may help. I have the back legs raised a little so the reflection is of my couch instead of the window. You may also want to raise the gamma to make it brighter for daytime viewing.

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post #118 of 131 Old 08-20-2014, 12:17 PM
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I ordered the NuShield anti reflective film to see if that will help out.
How is the NuShield? What it the picture quality like after the install.
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post #119 of 131 Old 08-20-2014, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ColoAV View Post
How is the NuShield? What it the picture quality like after the install.
I installed the nushield and immediately removed it. It degraded the picture to much to my liking. Unfortunately the TV is going to be a return. The reflection is too much for our room and I'm going to buy the Samsung f6300 from Costco.
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post #120 of 131 Old 08-31-2014, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post
Completed my calibration today. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to nail down the primary/secondary colors @ 100 saturation. It may be better to calibrate @ 75% saturation but I'm leaving it here for the time being. I left cinema smooth on for the calibration.











Picture Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 10
Color: 50
Tint: G50 / R50

Under "Advanced Settings"

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color Space: Custom-
Red 42, 7 , 5
Green 24, 52, 11
Blue 7, 0, 56
Yellow 50, 52, 14
Cyan 27, 49, 51
Magenta 41, 7, 54
Gamma: -1

Under "Picture Options"

Color Tone: Warm2
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI Black Level (greyed out): Low
Film Mode (greyed out): Off (I use Cinema Smooth, which is available when viewing 24p, turn on when available)
Black Optimizer: Dark Room

10pt White Balance

10% -16, +2, +15
20% +22, +23, +35
30% +34, +18, +34
40% +33, +8, +29
50% +19, +7, +34
60% +20, -8, +14
70% +29, -3, +25
80% +11, -10, +16
90% +29, -14, +17
100% +28, -6, +15



It's odd, I was getting stable readings in continous mode. I also got stable readings when doing the grey scale run ... they just didn't align exactly. I recall reading about someone else having the same issue over in the calibration forum section.
Settings work great on the PN60F5350 my wife and I picked up at Costco yesterday. FYI - HDMI Black Level on my set is grayed out and reads Normal. Not sure if that can be changed.
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays
Gear in this thread - f5300 by PriceGrabber.com



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