Countering pink-tint on my F5300 with slides - Dumb idea? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:22 AM
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Orion 2001,

Thank you so much for your taking the time to do these tests and keeping us posted on the results.

Hope you can come up with a solution!
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:35 AM
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I received my 60F5500 today and mine has the pink tint across the bottom and right side edge of the screen but also the rest of the screen that isn't affected by the pink tint has a green tinted look to it.


I may return the set if the tints are not correctable by increasing the Vs.

How bad is it? Pics? Honestly I wish I never read about this issue or I wouldn't care. I think I'm deciding to keep my 5300
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
I received my 60F5500 today and mine has the pink tint across the bottom and right side edge of the screen but also the rest of the screen that isn't affected by the pink tint has a green tinted look to it.


I may return the set if the tints are not correctable by increasing the Vs.

How bad is it? Pics? Honestly I wish I never read about this issue or I wouldn't care. I think I'm deciding to keep my 5300
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:40 PM
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You need a "lightly" colored grayscale/graybars pattern with a lot of gradation.Impossible on a full white screen.The abl needs too be fairly active.The lighter the screen is -the more magenta/red it is.If its red on darker screens then it's the white balance adjustment.

There is pink or green color banding in clouds,waterfalls etc that seems impossible too completely eliminate.Ive read it's something to do with the Panels bit level.Whatever that means.

Whatever you do DON'T ELECTROCUTE YOURSELF !

Last edited by Vic12345; 07-24-2014 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BobRiff View Post
Orion 2001,

Thank you so much for your taking the time to do these tests and keeping us posted on the results.

Hope you can come up with a solution!
You're very welcome Bob. Thanks should go to Tom for his suggestions and expertise in this matter. I don't mind doing the menial labor as I like tinkering with stuff and the satisfaction that comes along with being able to do/fix stuff by myself (and the helpf of internet friends)

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Whatever you do DON'T ELECTROCUTE YOURSELF !
Can't stress this enough! Your comment reminded me that I should edit my previous post with a big warning so people who come across it don't try to open up and play with their panel without being aware of the dangers and what precautions to take.
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:23 PM
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can turn the red gain down but if you turn it down too far the picture looks dull/flat,and causes gradation problems as the brightest white areas will go shiny.Can counter it with blue a bit too but itll go shiny if there's took much.If you don't know already plasmas are calibrated with average picture levels(or average abl levels). it's a normal thing that plasmas go more reddish when there's more whiter/lighter areas on screen....In addition too the red magenta color some tvs on lighter colored screens develop little purple blotches(not always fixable)and slight horizontal bars that are both most obvious when the camera moves around.

I'm not sure but Im wondering if the red discoloring you can't completely defeat on a lot of plasmas.Also another reason besides yellow room lighting too calibrate too a warmer color temperature.

I haven't the courage too take the back off.there is someone that fried his few yr old tv after turning voltage up.Better the tv though.Also be sure if those adjustment screws break if you turn them too much like some of them do.

Last edited by Vic12345; 07-24-2014 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post
can turn the red gain down but if you turn it down too far the picture looks dull/flat,and causes gradation problems as the brightest white areas will go shiny.Can counter it with blue a bit too but itll go shiny if there's took much.If you don't know already plasmas are calibrated with average picture levels(or average abl levels). it's a normal thing that plasmas go more reddish when there's more whiter/lighter areas on screen....In addition too the red magenta color some tvs on lighter colored screens develop little purple blotches(not always fixable)and slight horizontal bars that are both most obvious when the camera moves around.

I'm not sure but Im wondering if the red discoloring you can't completely defeat on a lot of plasmas.Also another reason besides yellow room lighting too calibrate too a warmer color temperature.

I haven't the courage too take the back off.there is someone that fried his few yr old tv after turning voltage up.Better the tv though.Also be sure if those adjustment screws break if you turn them too much like some of them do.
Unfortunately, due to the non-uniform nature of the red-tint, it is impossible to calibrate out. You will always have a trade-off where some section of your screen will be off. If you read Tom's link to some other 2013 panels, the Vs adjustment did indeed get rid of red/magenta banding, etc. This has also been documented to fix the red tint/green blob issue on older Panasonic panels. Unfortunately, in the case of my panel, increasing Vs instead exacerbated the red tint issue instead of improving it.

As I posted previously, I was able to improve the situation the most by dropping Vs to the lowest possible value. I think this should be safer than increasing Vs, although, I think increasing Vs to 213V should be okay considering that was the fix recommended by Samsung for some panels from last year.

Regarding the potentiometer adjustment screws, I think anyone adjusting them should be very delicate in varying them. It take small twists to impart a couple of Volts increase/decrease in the voltage.
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:28 PM
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I don't think I've ever read on here where people are having a problem with a red tint along bottom of screen.Ive read that some areas of the screen can be slightly different colored.I would return it.
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post
I don't think I've ever read on here where people are having a problem with a red tint along bottom of screen.Ive read that some areas of the screen can be slightly different colored.I would return it.
I think you may have missed it then... red tint at the bottom seems to be the most common thing with the PN60F5300. I had a much worse case of it with the 1st tv that I returned. I've read several other accounts here on AVS where everyone had red tint along the bottom edge.

While I could return it, I'm not keen on continuing to play the panel lottery as there is a good chance the replacement will be even worse than what I currently have. After the voltage tweaks, the red tint is very mild and not really noticeable unless I really look for it. It really isn't worth the hassle of packing the TV up again, driving it to Sears and then loading, transporting and unpacking another panel only to have the same or worse issue.
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post
I don't think I've ever read on here where people are having a problem with a red tint along bottom of screen.Ive read that some areas of the screen can be slightly different colored.I would return it.
You haven't been reading long enough then, imagic (who works for avsforum) went through two 60F5300 with the pink issue before returning it and spending 3x as much for a F8500.

Why I Bought a Plasma HDTV in 2014

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Old 07-24-2014, 11:45 PM
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Ive read something like -plasmas screens have about 6-8 square or rectangle areas and each area is slightly different color.Ive never noticed it,but I don't look for it. I would not keep something with an obvious red tint along the bottom of screen.
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Old 07-25-2014, 12:15 AM
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It's funny, I have repaired many plasma TVs and none have a non removable red tint. In the few instances, it's all been Vs too low that's caused it. Red tint will occur when the PSU or sustains can't supply enough current to sustain a full discharge, will occur at very high APL sometimes and other times at normal APL.

Can't ever recall it happening on older panels (Panny PZ80, G10; Samsung B450, LG PS3000 etc.) It's an energy saving thing.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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It's funny, I have repaired many plasma TVs and none have a non removable red tint. In the few instances, it's all been Vs too low that's caused it. Red tint will occur when the PSU or sustains can't supply enough current to sustain a full discharge, will occur at very high APL sometimes and other times at normal APL.

Can't ever recall it happening on older panels (Panny PZ80, G10; Samsung B450, LG PS3000 etc.) It's an energy saving thing.
Yeah, it did seem like an energy saving thing, so I was a bit bummed to see that increasing Vs didn't resolve the issue but instead increased the red-tint effect. The max rated power consumption on this set is equal to the max power consumption on my 2010 Panasonic TC-P42C1!

I am planning on trying to tweak Ve and Vsc as you suggested earlier. Could you explain a little bit to me in terms of what they control and why they might help?

Red tint is definitely improved from before after having brought Vs down to 197V, but it isn't completely gone and still noticeable at times. I'd be curious to see if anyone else tries this and whether their panel responds differently to Vs adjustments.
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:20 AM
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Ve: Erase, black level and when low, can cause pink/red tint to image like Vs or dead pixel effect. Too high Ve can cause sparkly pixel effect.
-Vsc: Black level and image retention. Can counter-act some effects of high Ve.

Last edited by tom669; 07-25-2014 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:38 AM
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I just wanted to thank Orion2001 and tom699 for their generous contributions here.

I really would like to try tinkering with mine but I'm a little hesitant as I have no experience with multimeters or electricity hazards... plus my wife has forbidden it .

Even though my second set has the pink tint, it is significantly less than the previous, I still notice it. Any time there is potential discoloration near the bottom of the screen I wonder "Is that supposed to be that color or is it just the tint issue?". I realize it's entirely a mental thing but it messes with me more than I care for it to.

If Orion's efforts pan out further it's going to be hard for me not to give it a go.
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post
Ve: Erase, black level and when low, can cause pink/red tint to image like Vs or dead pixel effect. Too high Ve can cause sparkly pixel effect.
-Vsc: Black level and image retention. Can counter-act some effects of high Ve.
Thanks tom! So I guess Ve is probably more likely to potentially be beneficial. Do you suggest increasing Vsc and Ve together as you mention that Vsc can help counter higher Ve? Also, higher Vsc means a more negative Vsc right?
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Old 07-25-2014, 04:39 PM
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Adding my experience to this thread with the infamous 'pink tint' issue on the F5300/F5500.

My 2013 51" F5500 had a very uniform panel with only a very thin band at the bottom of the panel being more 'pink' than the rest of the screen. It was annoying on test slides etc. but almost impossible to spot
when watching movies/shows etc.

A year later, that panel developed a vertical line of dead pixels. The panel was replaced under warranty.

It was obvious from the minute I turned the TV on that the new panel had much worse uniformity than the original one:



Noticeable pink tint on the right and lower parts of the screen.

In addition, there was a horizontal banding issue (like DSE) that appeared on panning shots.

Oddly enough, the tech saw the DSE problem right away but could not spot the uniformity issue in my living room.

Back the TV went and the panel was replaced once more.

I got a call today from the tech saying that:

-the new panel also exhibits this DSE but to a much lesser degree

-uniformity is pretty much the same as the previous panel

Seeing as when a panel is replaced almost everything is replaced along with it save for the A/V connections board and power supply, I am wondering
if maybe the pink hue issues are power supply related.

Or this is simply a case of lower QC on Samsung's part, since Plasmas are pretty much dead.

I'm wondering on how to proceed. Should I pressure Samsung's service for yet another panel replacement? I'm guessing the entire batch has this issue.
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Old 07-25-2014, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by silencer51 View Post
Adding my experience to this thread with the infamous 'pink tint' issue on the F5300/F5500.

My 2013 51" F5500 had a very uniform panel with only a very thin band at the bottom of the panel being more 'pink' than the rest of the screen. It was annoying on test slides etc. but almost impossible to spot
when watching movies/shows etc.

A year later, that panel developed a vertical line of dead pixels. The panel was replaced under warranty.

It was obvious from the minute I turned the TV on that the new panel had much worse uniformity than the original one:



Noticeable pink tint on the right and lower parts of the screen.

In addition, there was a horizontal banding issue (like DSE) that appeared on panning shots.

Oddly enough, the tech saw the DSE problem right away but could not spot the uniformity issue in my living room.

Back the TV went and the panel was replaced once more.

I got a call today from the tech saying that:

-the new panel also exhibits this DSE but to a much lesser degree

-uniformity is pretty much the same as the previous panel

Seeing as when a panel is replaced almost everything is replaced along with it save for the A/V connections board and power supply, I am wondering
if maybe the pink hue issues are power supply related.

Or this is simply a case of lower QC on Samsung's part, since Plasmas are pretty much dead.

I'm wondering on how to proceed. Should I pressure Samsung's service for yet another panel replacement? I'm guessing the entire batch has this issue.
I think you should pressure them to get it right, though they will probably tell you the issues you are seeing is within spec. At the very least see if you can't get them to give you a full year warranty with your new replacement.
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Old 07-25-2014, 04:58 PM
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The service has so far been excellent; I didn't have to pressure them into seeing the issues. The problem is, from what I can tell, most 2014 panels have this issue to a degree. So the only solution would be to keep replacing panels until I get one that's 'right'.

P.S. My tv still has a year of warranty on it
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Old 07-26-2014, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
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The service has so far been excellent; I didn't have to pressure them into seeing the issues. The problem is, from what I can tell, most 2014 panels have this issue to a degree. So the only solution would be to keep replacing panels until I get one that's 'right'.

P.S. My tv still has a year of warranty on it
I've been worried about the same thing. I could swap my current set for another one at Sears but I'm worried I'll end up with a worse set and I don't know how many swaps it will take before I get one that I am happy with. At least with my current one, the red tint is primarily only at the bottom edge. I'd rather have that then a red tint issue on the other edges as well.
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Old 07-26-2014, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Thanks tom! So I guess Ve is probably more likely to potentially be beneficial. Do you suggest increasing Vsc and Ve together as you mention that Vsc can help counter higher Ve? Also, higher Vsc means a more negative Vsc right?

Yep, I would try up to -210V Vsc whilst playing with Ve to find a sweet spot. If red tint goes at higher, or lower Ve, adjust Vsc to make the panel stable, if necessary. For example, if you begin to see misfiring pixels, make Vsc more negative.
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Old 07-26-2014, 02:12 AM
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I guess this must be one reason for the demise of plasmas, because this exact same situation is happening with Panasonic sets, you hope to get a perfect one but most (or all) of them now have the same problems to a greater or lesser degree.

A Panasonic tech told me the pink/green tint issue had to do with panel voltage and was "inherent to plasma technology".

But many past owners never had this issue, so it seems like it might have something to do with energy-saving measures or even thinner panels in the newer sets.
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Old 07-26-2014, 02:35 AM
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I doubt this is a major cause of demise; LED-LCDs arguably have far worse uniformity issues, dirty screen effect, haloing/flashlighting, etc. No technology is perfect, yet. Since OLED is single sheet of glass inkjet printed there is some hope that it will be more uniform, only time will tell though.
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Old 07-26-2014, 03:34 AM
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OLED supposedly also has IR/burn-in problems, similar to plasmas.
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Old 07-26-2014, 05:33 PM
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Sometimes the channel or broadcast has the pink discoloring in lighter areas or everything.If its covering a lot of the Light areas on screen it's often ABL.And on my budget e450 ABL(pink discoloring)effects basically everything but dark screens. From what I read the pink discoloring effects the budget models more,but it still effects some of the most expensive ones.....So what you can end up having on a plasma is yellowy/red blacks because of the glare and pink whites(inaccurate).

Last edited by Vic12345; 07-26-2014 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 07-27-2014, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Update after playing with Ve and Vsc

Time for an update. I spent some time on Saturday playing around with Ve and Vsc. I first set Vs back to 208V from 197V and I double checked again and it did indeed produce a bit more of the red-tint effect. Then I tried increasing Ve and Vsc. I could not tell any difference when varying Vsc between 190-210V. I also tried bringing Ve up but the max it would only go before the potentiometer maxed out was around 120V. However, it didn't seem to really help the red-tint issue.

So I set Vsc back to -200V, Vs to 197V and then again tweaked Ve. It *seems* like dropping Ve to ~103V actually helped reduce the red-tint issue. I can't be completely sure as it is very hard to tell by eye but *I think* that dropping Ve did help. So my panel is currently at:

Vs: 190V
Ve: 103V
Vsc: -210V
Va: Untouched ( ~57V)

I have to say that the red-tint issue is definitely still there but it has improved substantially since before I did the voltage tweaks. On some of the mid-gray full screen test images, I no longer see the red-tint...which was not the case previously. In all white scenes it is still visible but seems to be less of an issue and less distracting. All in all, the panel is at a point where I am very happy with it and I won't be looking to exchange it.

Tom - Thanks for all the help. I'd love to know if anyone else tries this out (make sure to be careful!) and if they observe similar trends.

Btw, I think dropping Vs and Ve seems to have lowered my black levels a bit. Is this expected behaviour?
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:30 AM
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I think its advised too set the adjustable pots too the same values listed somewhere in the back of tv. Theres some pots in there your not suppose too adjust.Cant remember which ones it is though.

There's a thread Samsung plasma panel tweaks for better blacks.There are some people that have ran into a few problems when doing the adjustments,and some have gained improvement.
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I think its advised too set the adjustable pots too the same values listed somewhere in the back of tv. Theres some pots in there your not suppose too adjust.Cant remember which ones it is though.

There's a thread Samsung plasma panel tweaks for better blacks.There are some people that have ran into a few problems when doing the adjustments,and some have gained improvement.
Hi Vic, while this is true, tom who has been helping me out with guidelines has tons of experience with tweaking/repairing panels and has some very informative guides posted elsewhere on other forums when it comes to voltage tweaks on panels. Also, as I noted in my posts, using the preset values on the back of the panel results in a stronger red-tint issue than where I currently am.

The voltages I tweaked are some of the safer ones to tweak. Va should not be touched and it can also be tricky to tweak Yrr and Yfr without an oscilloscope (I didn't touch them).
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:41 AM
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Ve will affect black level. Increasing Vs can allow for lower Ve without dead pixels maldischarge but in general changing Vs will not affect the panel's black level.

I've had the 51" D450 running for some time now I've got the new main AV board, and noticed the black level is particularly mediocre, and there is some maldischarge (in dark areas there's a field of randomly discharging dark green and red pixels), so I will be tweaking that soon too.
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tom669 View Post
Ve will affect black level. Increasing Vs can allow for lower Ve without dead pixels maldischarge but in general changing Vs will not affect the panel's black level.

I've had the 51" D450 running for some time now I've got the new main AV board, and noticed the black level is particularly mediocre, and there is some maldischarge (in dark areas there's a field of randomly discharging dark green and red pixels), so I will be tweaking that soon too.
Hi tom, thanks for the info. What does maldischarge look like? Is it similar to the random RGB noise on black screens that you typically have but more pronounced. I did notice a decent amount of green dancing around on a black screen the other night but I'm not sure if it was always like that or whether it is an effect of dropping Ve down.

PS - Can dropping Ve like I did , along with low Vs damage the panel in any way or should I be okay to operate as is if I'm happy with the picture quality?
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