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post #1 of 56 Old 07-28-2014, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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PC mode on TV sets, image quality?

I have a Samsung plasma and was debating setting it to PC mode for input lag and to disable all the post image processing


I'm doing this mainly for gaming but its also my blu ray playing TV.


does PC mode affect picture quality like game mode does? Should I even bother with it?


thanks
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post #2 of 56 Old 07-28-2014, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceX View Post
I have a Samsung plasma and was debating setting it to PC mode for input lag and to disable all the post image processing


I'm doing this mainly for gaming but its also my blu ray playing TV.


does PC mode affect picture quality like game mode does? Should I even bother with it?


thanks
I would like to know this too!
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post #3 of 56 Old 07-28-2014, 06:32 PM
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I saw PC mode pop up once on my F4500-- not sure how I got it to show up though. How do you activate it?
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post #4 of 56 Old 07-28-2014, 07:32 PM
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PC mode on my f8500 is DRASTICALLY different. the calibration options are super sparse, so unless the tv looks fantastic to you right out of the box, there's no way there won't be a drop in picture quality. FYI, game mode is kind of a halfway point between normal and PC. so if game mode decreases PQ beyond what you want, PC mode will go even further.


I run two hdmi inputs on my f8500, one for games set in 'pc' mode, and the other for all other video. unfortunately, the lag is just way too high for gaming, but I want the best picture quality I can get for anything where lag doesn't matter.


if I had to choose just one, it would be a really tough choice for me.


now, that all being said, the 'PC' mode on the f8500 still looks worlds better than many other TV's. it's not like it totally destroys the picture quality. it's just, why buy a good tv if you don't take advantage of it?


Josh, if you rename the input 'pc' the samsungs will go into pc mode. to deactivate it, name the input ANYTHING other than 'pc'.

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post #5 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 05:03 AM
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So is the input lag acceptable when running 'game' mode, or should it really be set to 'pc' mode?

Any idea if Samsung plans on coming out with a new firmware to address this? I get my TV today!
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post #6 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 09:33 AM
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PC mode on my PS43F4900, just the 2 point white balance set. PC mode only works if the signal is RGB. Seems to be less ABL, and considering how there is no control over the colour its really accurate for a preset.

The downside is no black optimiser so the black is 0.012 rather than the 0.007cdm^2 I get with auto.

Last edited by 22point8; 07-29-2014 at 09:39 AM.
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post #7 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParityBit View Post
Any idea if Samsung plans on coming out with a new firmware to address this? I get my TV today!
What's there to address? The processing that they've disabled is what accounts for the lag reduction. If they re-enabled the various image processing features the lag would be right back up to where they started.

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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
PC mode only works if the signal is RGB.
On the F8500 it has to by 60Hz also. It won't engage if you send the TV 1080p24.
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post #8 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParityBit View Post
So is the input lag acceptable when running 'game' mode, or should it really be set to 'pc' mode?

Any idea if Samsung plans on coming out with a new firmware to address this? I get my TV today!
I can only speak for the f8500, and these numbers are rough estimates as I didn't not have a CRT to compare to, but they are relatively accurate:
normal: 120ms
game mode: 60ms
PC:45ms


the biggest difference I saw going from game to pc mode is that BO is no longer an option, and you no longer have control over color other than selecting temperature and white balance. the sharpness on pc mode is way lower as well, which for me is actually kind of nice as I found a setting of 0 to be too high normally. in PC mode I have it set around 30 and it looks about the same as 0 in game mode or regular.


I don't believe there's anything to 'fix' with fw. what we see in PC mode is what happens with little/no processing applied to the image. this is exactly the way it should be, and it's the only way to get the lowest input lag. we see what happens in game mode when even just the basic processing is done and the lag jumps considerably. there's just no way to get both, it's not possible for all that processing to be done without causing more lag. so the current system is ideal, it gives you the choice between the best possible pq, the best possible lag time, or a decent compromise in the middle(game mode).


I think for most ppl, game mode is just fine. in fact, for awhile, ppl were claiming game mode was actually a bit quicker than pc mode. I choose to use PC mode for a couple of reasons:
-it's quicker
-I can still get a good enough image from it for gaming
-I had occasional screen tearing issues that I only noticed when using game mode

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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post #9 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post







PC mode on my PS43F4900, just the 2 point white balance set. PC mode only works if the signal is RGB. Seems to be less ABL, and considering how there is no control over the colour its really accurate for a preset.

The downside is no black optimiser so the black is 0.012 rather than the 0.007cdm^2 I get with auto.
I'm curious about this part in bold, I've never really checked, and in my theater mostly use the HTPC or a game console, but in my room I'm nearly certain naming the input PC has the same affect(it's a Samsung lcd though) and that would be with my cable box that I can only assume is not RGB. that would almost be a nice feature though, as you could label the input PC, and then it would have a different setting for RGB and Ypbcb or whatever the other one is, haha.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
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post #10 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I can only speak for the f8500, and these numbers are rough estimates as I didn't not have a CRT to compare to, but they are relatively accurate:
normal: 120ms
game mode: 60ms
PC:45ms

... Awesome hands on ...
Thanks for this! I have the same TV, and I will try running my consoles in game mode!

So doing it this way, is it better to flip modes based on what I am doing, or run 2 HDMI out of my receiver (it has two but I am not sure if they can be a different signal). I will have the PS4/One/360. Then I have my cable box. (movies on my consoles for now anyways)

Last edited by ParityBit; 07-29-2014 at 11:09 AM.
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post #11 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I'm curious about this part in bold, I've never really checked, and in my theater mostly use the HTPC or a game console, but in my room I'm nearly certain naming the input PC has the same affect(it's a Samsung lcd though) and that would be with my cable box that I can only assume is not RGB. that would almost be a nice feature though, as you could label the input PC, and then it would have a different setting for RGB and Ypbcb or whatever the other one is, haha.
I think I read in another topic someone said their cable box (motorola) is RGB because the older boxes had DVI output, and when HDMI came out they didn't change to YUV.

As above, when you have PC mode on, playing a bluray (24p) puts it back into whatever you had before e.g. movie preset.

Oh, and leave sharpness at 50 in PC mode, decreasing sharpness actually blurs in PC mode, or on the component video input.

Last edited by 22point8; 07-29-2014 at 11:11 AM.
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post #12 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParityBit View Post
Thanks for this! I have the same TV, and I will try running my consoles in game mode!

So doing it this way, is it better to flip modes based on what I am doing, or run 2 HDMI out of my receiver (it has two). I will have the PS4/One/360. Then I have my cable box. (movies on my consoles for now anyways)
That depends on your remote control setup. If you use a single programmable remote w/ activity based functions (e.g. Watch Xbox) to control everything and you have a spare HDMI output on your AVR and input on you TV then it can be more convenient to use the extra HDMI connection for gaming. This way you can set your TV to use Game mode for all sources connected to one HDMI Input and another mode (e.g. Cinema) for all sources connected to the other. Then, program the remote so that when you select the "Watch Xbox" or "Watch Playstation" activities, it switches both the receiver and the TV to the proper HDMI inputs. When you want to watch TV or a movie, it switches them both to the proper inputs. Since the mode settings are saved for each of the TV's inputs, the mode will automatically change whenever the input being used is changed.
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post #13 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 11:51 AM
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Universal Remote control ..... Yeah. I think I need one of those! I did not even think of getting one. Is the Harmony Ultimate all the rage?
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post #14 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParityBit View Post
Thanks for this! I have the same TV, and I will try running my consoles in game mode!

So doing it this way, is it better to flip modes based on what I am doing, or run 2 HDMI out of my receiver (it has two but I am not sure if they can be a different signal). I will have the PS4/One/360. Then I have my cable box. (movies on my consoles for now anyways)
I use a powered hdmi splitter, so similar idea but not as clean. I think this is the way to go. HDMI1 is set up for optimal picture quality for watching movies and tv, etc. HDMI2 is set to PC for optimal gaming. I just switch inputs depending on what I'm doing, it's the same signal being sent to both inputs. I actually have a harmony remote, so all this happens automatically for me, but even if not, switching inputs is a lot easier and quicker than changing the name to PC or enabling game mode, so if you have the option of running a second HDMI out from your receiver to the tv, I definitely would do that. it's actually better if both hdmi outputs are the same(I imagine they could be) and that way you don't have to do anything special to change between watching movies on your console, or gaming on the console. just change the input and you'll have it set for best picture or best gaming.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
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post #15 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
I think I read in another topic someone said their cable box (motorola) is RGB because the older boxes had DVI output, and when HDMI came out they didn't change to YUV.

As above, when you have PC mode on, playing a bluray (24p) puts it back into whatever you had before e.g. movie preset.

Oh, and leave sharpness at 50 in PC mode, decreasing sharpness actually blurs in PC mode, or on the component video input.
that's interesting, I actually do have a Motorola cable box. i'll have to play around sometime just for kicks. I'm starting to wonder now, I think the ps3 switches automatically between RGB and the other. since I mostly just watch blurays on the ps3 I have it set to use my 'movie' input, but I'm guessing I could still have it go to the 'pc' input and it would switch depending on whether I'm playing a game or watching a movie. that could be handy!


I doublechecked my sharpness, I've got it set to 40 right now, and I think it's near perfect. no halos at all around text(I still have some of that with a sharpness of 0 in the normal mode) and everything looks clear and focused. it is kind of weird though, I've never actually seen a digital display that would 'blur' the image like it would if I turned it down to 0. I think this is the only tv I've ever had the sharpness higher than 0 since owning a CRT. either way, I agree it needs to remain higher, I'm sure most will be fine with a setting of 50, I actually use my tv as a computer monitor and find a setting around 40 makes text look better. I'm sure there's some variance between TV's too.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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post #16 of 56 Old 07-29-2014, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParityBit View Post
Universal Remote control ..... Yeah. I think I need one of those! I did not even think of getting one. Is the Harmony Ultimate all the rage?

all the harmony remotes work the same. that is they use the same kind of software and behave the same way. the biggest differences between them is the number of devices supported, whether they have RF or not, and the physical design. personally I'm a big fan of the harmony one. I still prefer it over the ultimate. I like that the harmony one handles everything on it's own. I don't need a keyboard, or a smartphone or anything else. BUT, I was recently at my brother's visiting, and he has the ultimate, and it's awesome for him. he has 3 different zones all controlled by the remote, and a keyboard in each room to help. works really well for him, and the harmony one wouldn't handle this well at all since it doesn't have RF support.


if you have a more basic, one room, theater set up, you can get away with a more inexpensive model.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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post #17 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I use a powered hdmi splitter, so similar idea but not as clean. I think this is the way to go. HDMI1 is set up for optimal picture quality for watching movies and tv, etc. HDMI2 is set to PC for optimal gaming. I just switch inputs depending on what I'm doing, it's the same signal being sent to both inputs. I actually have a harmony remote, so all this happens automatically for me, but even if not, switching inputs is a lot easier and quicker than changing the name to PC or enabling game mode, so if you have the option of running a second HDMI out from your receiver to the tv, I definitely would do that. it's actually better if both hdmi outputs are the same(I imagine they could be) and that way you don't have to do anything special to change between watching movies on your console, or gaming on the console. just change the input and you'll have it set for best picture or best gaming.
When changing the input, you can select game mode 'on.' Is that the same as changing the name of the input?

So what do you use for a BR player? I was planning on using my Xbox One or PS4. But if I have them passed into the TV as 'game' or 'pc' then the movies will not have the normal settings. I could change the mode, but I would have to calibrate the tv each time I left game mode.

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post #18 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParityBit View Post
When changing the input, you can select game mode 'on.' Is that the same as changing the name of the input?

So what do you use for a BR player? I was planning on using my Xbox One or PS4. But if I have them passed into the TV as 'game' or 'pc' then the movies will not have the normal settings. I could change the mode, but I would have to calibrate the tv each time I left game mode.
This is essentially the same scenario we have been discussing. Most of us use an AVR/pre-pro. All of the source devices are connected to the AVR/pre-pro. The AVR is then connected to the display. The AVR acts as the switch, which determines which of the source devices are being passed along to the display. Normally, you would only run one HDMI cable from the AVR to the display. However, this would mean that all of your source devices are ultimately connected to the same input on the TV, so you would have to change the TV's settings manually whenever you go from playing a game to watching a movie. To get around this, you make at least two HDMI connections between the AVR/pre-pro and the display. If your AVR has dual HDMI outputs then it is as simple as running two HDMI cables between them. When you do this, you now are now passing the signal from the AVR/pre-pro to two different inputs on the display. You set the display to use your normal mode whenever you have one input selected and PC/game mode whenever you have the other input selected.

So, let's say that you have the following source devices...

1) Cable/Satellite set-top box
2) XboxOne
3) Playstation 4

...connected to HDMI Inputs 1, 2, & 3 (respectively) on your AVR. Then you have HDMI Monitor Out A and HDMI Monitor Out B on the back of your AVR connected to your display, using HDMI Inputs 1 & 2. HDMI Input 1 (on the display) is set to use normal mode. HDMI Input 2 (on the display) is set to use PC/game mode.

Scenario #1 : You want to watch cable/satellite TV (normal mode)
Solution: Select HDMI Input 1 on the AVR and HDMI Input 1 on the display.

Scenario #2 : You want to play an Xbox game (game mode)
Solution: Select HDMI Input 2 on the AVR and HDMI Input 2 on the display.

Scenario #3 : You want to play a Playstation game (game mode)
Solution: Select HDMI Input 3 on the AVR and HDMI Input 2 on the display.

Scenario #4 : You want to watch a Blu-Ray/DVD/Netflix/etc. using your Xbox (normal mode).
Solution: Select HDMI Input 2 on the AVR and HDMI Input 1 on the display.

Scenario #5 : You want to watch a Blu-Ray/DVD/Netflix/etc. using your Playstation (normal mode).
Solution: Select HDMI Input 3 on the AVR and HDMI Input 1 on the display.

If you don't have an extra HDMI output on your AVR then you can use an active HDMI splitter between the AVR and the display to accomplish the same thing. If you don't have an AVR and don't want one, you still have a couple options. If you have several source devices and not enough HDMI Inputs on your display to handle the extra connections that would be needed to split one or more of the feeds from the source devices to multiple inputs, you can get a 4x2 or 6x2 matrix switch in place of the AVR/pre-pro. If you only have one or two source devices, you only need to use multiple modes for one of them, and your display has an extra HDMI input then you can skip the external switch altogether and just use an active HDMI splitter between the source that is used for both TV/movie watching and gaming and the display.
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post #19 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 07:49 AM
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This is well explained good stuff!
So when you select one of the components (Xbox/PS), the same content is sent to both HDMI in's on the TV. So you really just need to select the correct input to use which a nice universal remote with actions can do this?
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post #20 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 08:55 AM
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So when you select one of the components (Xbox/PS), the same content is sent to both HDMI in's on the TV. So you really just need to select the correct input to use which a nice universal remote with actions can do this?
Yes. Programmable remotes from Harmony and apps such as Roomie Remote, iRule, etc. all have the capability to use custom macros that can send multiple commands to multiple devices with the push of one button on the remote/mobile device. For several years now, they have been taking an "activity-based" approach to remote controls. Instead of pushing a button that says "Switch AVR Input to HDMI X" and another that says "Switch TV Input to HDMI X", and still others to power the appropriate device on, etc., you create a macro for each activity you want to do and give it a name, such as "Play Playstation Game", "Watch Blu-ray", "Listen to CD", etc. When creating the macro, you tell it what commands to send to which devices. Once created, all you have to do is select "Play Playstation Game" and it does the rest for you. If you really want to get into home automation, you can push one button on the remote and have it turn the TV/projector on, turn the sound system on, switch both to the proper input settings, adjust the volume, lower the shades, turn the lights off, start the coffee pot, lock the doors, and order pizza.
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post #21 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 09:43 AM
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Yes. Programmable remotes from Harmony and apps such as Roomie Remote, iRule, etc. all have the capability to use custom macros that can send multiple commands to multiple devices with the push of one button on the remote/mobile device. For several years now, they have been taking an "activity-based" approach to remote controls. Instead of pushing a button that says "Switch AVR Input to HDMI X" and another that says "Switch TV Input to HDMI X", and still others to power the appropriate device on, etc., you create a macro for each activity you want to do and give it a name, such as "Play Playstation Game", "Watch Blu-ray", "Listen to CD", etc. When creating the macro, you tell it what commands to send to which devices. Once created, all you have to do is select "Play Playstation Game" and it does the rest for you. If you really want to get into home automation, you can push one button on the remote and have it turn the TV/projector on, turn the sound system on, switch both to the proper input settings, adjust the volume, lower the shades, turn the lights off, start the coffee pot, lock the doors, and order pizza.
I have a lot of work cut out for me to set everything up like this! Hopefully it is straight forward on my receiver.

Thanks for the help!
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post #22 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ParityBit View Post
When changing the input, you can select game mode 'on.' Is that the same as changing the name of the input?

So what do you use for a BR player? I was planning on using my Xbox One or PS4. But if I have them passed into the TV as 'game' or 'pc' then the movies will not have the normal settings. I could change the mode, but I would have to calibrate the tv each time I left game mode.
game mode can be selected per input. so I would have HDMI1 with game mode off, and HDMI2 with game mode on. then, when switching between HDMI1 and HDMI2, it's basically allowing me to switch between having game mode on and off with only one button press. something the harmony can handle with ease.


I use my ps3 for a bluray player right now. right now I have my ps3 set to use HDMI1(my 'movie' preset) because I play games on the xbox, and rarely if ever on the ps3(I don't really like it for gaming, so only play the exclusives). but I've heard that the PC mode will only work if you send a RGB 60hz signal into the tv. if you send 24hz or the non-RGB signal, it will jump out of the PC mode and work normally. on the ps3 you can set it so that games output RGB and blurays output the non-RGB so it should still work automatically, I think. that's only with PC mode though, game mode should work with any input, so you'd have to change inputs manually, still not a huge deal though, only one button push.


remember, if you 'split' the hdmi outputs, which is what should be happening with your receiver, the ps4 will be connected to BOTH inputs on the tv all the time. you don't have to turn game mode off, you just switch inputs. and for what it's worth, if you calibrate the image, then turn on game mode, and calibrate again, then turn off game mode, it goes back to your first calibration. it'll save a calibration for 'normal', game mode, and pc mode on each input. you don't have to recalibrate every time

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post #23 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 11:19 AM
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OKay this all sounds good. I ordered the ultimate and tonight I will work on setting up my HDMI correctly.

I know I am supposed to rename the second one to 'game' or 'pc.' Is it all caps or lowercase? And which would you suggest for my consoles?
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post #24 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 12:10 PM
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So for the F8500 using PC mode is best for gaming.

I really cannot see a different between PC mode and Game Mode...Except PC mode looks darker
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post #25 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by NJPapi1977 View Post
So for the F8500 using PC mode is best for gaming.

I really cannot see a different between PC mode and Game Mode...Except PC mode looks darker
Does it matter if you name it all upper case 'PC' or lowercase 'pc'?
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post #26 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ParityBit View Post
OKay this all sounds good. I ordered the ultimate and tonight I will work on setting up my HDMI correctly.

I know I am supposed to rename the second one to 'game' or 'pc.' Is it all caps or lowercase? And which would you suggest for my consoles?


if you want game mode:
go into the menu > system > general > game mode on
*you do not have rename the input to enable game mode, and in fact changing the name to game(or anything other than PC) has no affect whatsoever.


if you want PC mode:
hit source > then up > select Tools > edit name > and then scroll to 'PC' and select it.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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post #27 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by NJPapi1977 View Post
So for the F8500 using PC mode is best for gaming.

I really cannot see a different between PC mode and Game Mode...Except PC mode looks darker
it has a minor improvement in input lag. I'd say it changes it from 'good enough' to 'pretty good'. probably not something that many would really notice.


as for the darkness, I have no idea. I tried not to compare the default settings for either, but rather my best 'calibrated' settings. for me, what it really came down to was I could use BO in game mode, but not in PC. other than that, I felt I was able to get pretty similar image quality. I decided the BO wasn't that necessary for games, considering I usually crank up the brightness above reference so I can see what's hiding in the shadows anyway. I find darker games nearly impossible to play when adjusted to 'reference' black.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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post #28 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 12:40 PM
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Does it matter if you name it all upper case 'PC' or lowercase 'pc'?
You dont actually rename it...You choose from the already listed names and one is PC Mode
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post #29 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 12:42 PM
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it has a minor improvement in input lag. I'd say it changes it from 'good enough' to 'pretty good'. probably not something that many would really notice.


as for the darkness, I have no idea. I tried not to compare the default settings for either, but rather my best 'calibrated' settings. for me, what it really came down to was I could use BO in game mode, but not in PC. other than that, I felt I was able to get pretty similar image quality. I decided the BO wasn't that necessary for games, considering I usually crank up the brightness above reference so I can see what's hiding in the shadows anyway. I find darker games nearly impossible to play when adjusted to 'reference' black.

I dont use default settings.

I use custom settings on Standard in Game Mode and Standard in PC Mode.

I see no different in PQ except a bit darker in PC Mode Standard and color is native default greyed out with warm 2 (my preference)

In Game Mode I at least get to use my custom color setting and put BO

In Last of us remastered the Last of Us title screen with the all black background when the game starts looks awesome with game mode BO to Dark Room but in PC Mode it is greyed a bit the black background.
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post #30 of 56 Old 07-30-2014, 03:06 PM
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I think I read in another topic someone said their cable box (motorola) is RGB because the older boxes had DVI output, and when HDMI came out they didn't change to YUV.
I have a Motorola DCX-3400-M, which is a fairly new box with HDMI. My box has an HDMI option for YCC 4:4:4 or RGB. Interestingly broadcast TV is in YCC 4:2:0 space so the box must convert to 4:4:4.
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